We need more prisons.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

And now comes the part where we explain where this magical money tree exists to pay for infinite amounts of space to house non-violent criminals we have decided that rehabilitation is a worthless endeavor on.

[homersapien 11,367]

And now comes the part where we explain where this magical money tree exists to pay for infinite amounts of space to house non-violent criminals we have decided that rehabilitation is a worthless endeavor on.

Millions Billions for incarceration, not one cent for rehabilitation.

[aujeff11 6,243]

Ok while Louisiana is not a state that's laws and sentencing I am familiar with, I applau them . How many times do you need to be told you go to prison for life for stealing before YOU QUIT stealing. It's pretty damn simple. And the reason I didn't believe the first link about the life sentence for stealing a jacket is it did not mention that was his 3rd or fourth conviction. Yes life without is still too stiff but he had plenty of chances.

For you to applaud a criminal justice system designed to pull in an extra buck while sending minorities to the big house for minor crimes is pretty pathetic.

i doubt the law has a clause that recognizes (minorities) or any other demographic in its sentencing guidelines.

It is well documented that racial disparities exist in the criminal justice system. Try Mccleskey v. Kemp. The Supreme Court admits racist disparities in the criminal justice system so you should too. Of course the law doesn't have sentencing guidelines for different races. That is called racism, a**hole.

[alexava 6,973]

And now comes the part where we explain where this magical money tree exists to pay for infinite amounts of space to house non-violent criminals we have decided that rehabilitation is a worthless endeavor on.

Millions for incarceration, not one cent for rehabilitation.

rehabilitation is a fairly tale.

[alexava 6,973]

Ok while Louisiana is not a state that's laws and sentencing I am familiar with, I applau them . How many times do you need to be told you go to prison for life for stealing before YOU QUIT stealing. It's pretty damn simple. And the reason I didn't believe the first link about the life sentence for stealing a jacket is it did not mention that was his 3rd or fourth conviction. Yes life without is still too stiff but he had plenty of chances.

For you to applaud a criminal justice system designed to pull in an extra buck while sending minorities to the big house for minor crimes is pretty pathetic.

i doubt the law has a clause that recognizes (minorities) or any other demographic in its sentencing guidelines.

It is well documented that racial disparities exist in the criminal justice system. Try Mccleskey v. Kemp. The Supreme Court admits racist disparities in the criminal justice system so you should too. Of course the law doesn't have sentencing guidelines for different races. That is called racism, a**hole.

aren't you the guy waving the confederate battle flag? Criminals are criminals race don't matter. ****head.

[alexava 6,973]

And now comes the part where we explain where this magical money tree exists to pay for infinite amounts of space to house non-violent criminals we have decided that rehabilitation is a worthless endeavor on.

Millions for incarceration, not one cent for rehabilitation.

tell me how to rehabilitate a thief. Drug dealers? I'll concede you can rehab addicts although it rarely works.

[aujeff11 6,243]

Ok while Louisiana is not a state that's laws and sentencing I am familiar with, I applau them . How many times do you need to be told you go to prison for life for stealing before YOU QUIT stealing. It's pretty damn simple. And the reason I didn't believe the first link about the life sentence for stealing a jacket is it did not mention that was his 3rd or fourth conviction. Yes life without is still too stiff but he had plenty of chances.

For you to applaud a criminal justice system designed to pull in an extra buck while sending minorities to the big house for minor crimes is pretty pathetic.

i doubt the law has a clause that recognizes (minorities) or any other demographic in its sentencing guidelines.

It is well documented that racial disparities exist in the criminal justice system. Try Mccleskey v. Kemp. The Supreme Court admits racist disparities in the criminal justice system so you should too. Of course the law doesn't have sentencing guidelines for different races. That is called racism, a**hole.

aren't you the guy waving the confederate battle flag? Criminals are criminals race don't matter. ****head.

No, I'm for not banning exp<b></b>ressions over whims.You're too stupid to realize that. I said people that are NOT racist should not be judged as bigots for having one.Nice fruitless attempt of deflection.

Your second sentence is wrong. Race does matter. When 65 percent of the nonviolent prison-lifers are black and another 18 percent are Mexican, then it should be obvious that different races are not getting the benefit of the doubt.

[AUDub 11,147]

And now comes the part where we explain where this magical money tree exists to pay for infinite amounts of space to house non-violent criminals we have decided that rehabilitation is a worthless endeavor on.

Millions for incarceration, not one cent for rehabilitation.

rehabilitation is a fairly tale.

Explain this goofy ex cathedra claim in more detail, please.

[JoeBags7277 734]

Maybe if we weren't locking people up for long terms over penny ante stuff, we'd have more room for the real dangers to society.

The U.S. has less than 5% of the world's population and yet has almost 25% of the world's prisoners. That's insane and is unsustainable.

Define "Penny ante" stuff please?

I'd say the easiest way to define the term would be the kind of stuff you could be guilty of and still hope to have a second chance at a college football career under Gus.

wow. I believe using Saban would be a better example than Gus.

No, the kind of people who get second chances under Saban are the kind who SHOULD be in prison- like domestic abusers and those who beat and rob people. Mine was a pro-Gus, Pro-Auburn, pro-2nd chances argument.

[alexava 6,973]

And now comes the part where we explain where this magical money tree exists to pay for infinite amounts of space to house non-violent criminals we have decided that rehabilitation is a worthless endeavor on.

Millions for incarceration, not one cent for rehabilitation.

rehabilitation is a fairly tale.

Explain this goofy ex cathedra claim in more detail, please.

you can't rehab a thief. You must make him decide if the consequences outweigh the score. He already knows it's wrong but has no conscience. Same with a non- using drug dealer. They keep on keeping on because sentences are not firm enough. Eventually some kill and indirectly cause many other deaths.

[homersapien 11,367]

And now comes the part where we explain where this magical money tree exists to pay for infinite amounts of space to house non-violent criminals we have decided that rehabilitation is a worthless endeavor on.

Millions for incarceration, not one cent for rehabilitation.

rehabilitation is a fairly tale.

Is that your professional opinion or just something that makes you feel good to say?

http://www.nytimes.c...ilitation-works

"......My colleague Bandy Lee and I have shown that an intensive re-educational program with violent male offenders in the San Francisco jails reduced the level of violence in the jail to zero for a year at a time. Even more important, participation in this program for as little as four months reduced the frequency of violent reoffending after leaving the jail by 83 percent, compared with a matched control group in a conventional jail. In addition to enhancing public safety, this program saved the taxpayers $4 for every $1 spent on it, since the lower reincarceration rate saved roughly $30,000 a year per person. The only mystery is: Why is this program not being adopted by every jail and prison in the country? Why are taxpayers not demanding that this be done?"

http://www.apa.org/m...ug03/rehab.aspx

The punitive turn

Until the mid-1970s, rehabilitation was a key part of U.S. prison policy. Prisoners were encouraged to develop occupational skills and to resolve psychological problems--such as substance abuse or aggression--that might interfere with their reintegration into society. Indeed, many inmates received court sentences that mandated treatment for such problems.

Since then, however, rehabilitation has taken a back seat to a "get tough on crime" approach that sees punishment as prison's main function, says Haney. The approach has created explosive growth in the prison population, while having at most a modest effect on crime rates.

As a result, the United States now has more than 2 million people in prisons or jails--the equivalent of one in every 142 U.S. residents--and another four to five million people on probation or parole. A higher percentage of the population is involved in the criminal justice system in the United States than in any other developed country.

Many inmates have serious mental illnesses. Starting in the late 1950s and 1960s, new psychotropic drugs and the community health movement dramatically reduced the number of people in state mental hospitals. But in the 1980s, many of the mentally ill who had left mental institutions in the previous two decades began entering the criminal justice system....

Relevant research

To help shift the focus from punishment to rehabilitation, psychologists are doing research on the causes of crime and the psychological effects of incarceration.

In the 1970s, when major changes were being made to the U.S. prison system, psychologists had little hard data to contribute.

But in the past 25 years, says Haney, they have generated a massive literature documenting the importance of child abuse, poverty, early exposure to substance abuse and other risk factors for criminal behavior. The findings suggest that individual-centered approaches to crime prevention need to be complemented by community-based approaches.

Researchers have also found that the pessimistic "nothing works" attitude toward rehabilitation that helped justify punitive prison policies in the 1970s was overstated. When properly implemented, work programs, education and psychotherapy can ease prisoners' transitions to the free world, says Haney.

Finally, researchers have demonstrated the power of the prison environment to shape behavior, often to the detriment of both prisoners and prison workers.

The Stanford Prison Experiment, which Haney co-authored in 1973 with Stanford University psychologist and APA Past-president Philip G. Zimbardo, PhD, is one example. It showed that psychologically healthy individuals could become sadistic or depressed when placed in a prison-like environment.

More recently, Haney has been studying so-called "supermax" prisons--high-security units in which prisoners spend as many as 23 hours per day in solitary confinement for years at a time.

Haney's research has shown that many prisoners in supermax units experience extremely high levels of anxiety and other negative emotions. When released--often without any "decompression" period in lower-security facilities--they have few of the social or occupational skills necessary to succeed in the outside world.

Nonetheless, supermax facilities have become increasingly common over the past five to ten years.

"This is what prison systems do under emergency circumstances--they move to punitive social control mechanisms," explains Haney. "[but] it's a very short-term solution, and one that may do more long-term damage both to the system and to the individuals than it solves."

Of course, I can find a lot more information on criminal rehabilitation. All it takes is a little research.

[aujeff11 6,243]

Maybe if we weren't locking people up for long terms over penny ante stuff, we'd have more room for the real dangers to society.

The U.S. has less than 5% of the world's population and yet has almost 25% of the world's prisoners. That's insane and is unsustainable.

Define "Penny ante" stuff please?

I'd say the easiest way to define the term would be the kind of stuff you could be guilty of and still hope to have a second chance at a college football career under Gus.

wow. I believe using Saban would be a better example than Gus.

No, the kind of people who get second chances under Saban are the kind who SHOULD be in prison- like domestic abusers and those who beat and rob people. Mine was a pro-Gus, Pro-Auburn, pro-2nd chances argument.

Nevermind, I see what you're saying now. I thought you were implying Gus is giving second chances to people that belonged in prison. My B

[alexava 6,973]

And now comes the part where we explain where this magical money tree exists to pay for infinite amounts of space to house non-violent criminals we have decided that rehabilitation is a worthless endeavor on.

Millions for incarceration, not one cent for rehabilitation.

rehabilitation is a fairly tale.

Is that your professional opinion or just something that makes you feel good to say?

http://www.nytimes.c...ilitation-works

"......My colleague Bandy Lee and I have shown that an intensive re-educational program with violent male offenders in the San Francisco jails reduced the level of violence in the jail to zero for a year at a time. Even more important, participation in this program for as little as four months reduced the frequency of violent reoffending after leaving the jail by 83 percent, compared with a matched control group in a conventional jail. In addition to enhancing public safety, this program saved the taxpayers $4 for every $1 spent on it, since the lower reincarceration rate saved roughly $30,000 a year per person. The only mystery is: Why is this program not being adopted by every jail and prison in the country? Why are taxpayers not demanding that this be done?"

http://www.apa.org/m...ug03/rehab.aspx

The punitive turn

Until the mid-1970s, rehabilitation was a key part of U.S. prison policy. Prisoners were encouraged to develop occupational skills and to resolve psychological problems--such as substance abuse or aggression--that might interfere with their reintegration into society. Indeed, many inmates received court sentences that mandated treatment for such problems.

Since then, however, rehabilitation has taken a back seat to a "get tough on crime" approach that sees punishment as prison's main function, says Haney. The approach has created explosive growth in the prison population, while having at most a modest effect on crime rates.

As a result, the United States now has more than 2 million people in prisons or jails--the equivalent of one in every 142 U.S. residents--and another four to five million people on probation or parole. A higher percentage of the population is involved in the criminal justice system in the United States than in any other developed country.

Many inmates have serious mental illnesses. Starting in the late 1950s and 1960s, new psychotropic drugs and the community health movement dramatically reduced the number of people in state mental hospitals. But in the 1980s, many of the mentally ill who had left mental institutions in the previous two decades began entering the criminal justice system....

Relevant research

To help shift the focus from punishment to rehabilitation, psychologists are doing research on the causes of crime and the psychological effects of incarceration.

In the 1970s, when major changes were being made to the U.S. prison system, psychologists had little hard data to contribute.

But in the past 25 years, says Haney, they have generated a massive literature documenting the importance of child abuse, poverty, early exposure to substance abuse and other risk factors for criminal behavior. The findings suggest that individual-centered approaches to crime prevention need to be complemented by community-based approaches.

Researchers have also found that the pessimistic "nothing works" attitude toward rehabilitation that helped justify punitive prison policies in the 1970s was overstated. When properly implemented, work programs, education and psychotherapy can ease prisoners' transitions to the free world, says Haney.

Finally, researchers have demonstrated the power of the prison environment to shape behavior, often to the detriment of both prisoners and prison workers.

The Stanford Prison Experiment, which Haney co-authored in 1973 with Stanford University psychologist and APA Past-president Philip G. Zimbardo, PhD, is one example. It showed that psychologically healthy individuals could become sadistic or depressed when placed in a prison-like environment.

More recently, Haney has been studying so-called "supermax" prisons--high-security units in which prisoners spend as many as 23 hours per day in solitary confinement for years at a time.

Haney's research has shown that many prisoners in supermax units experience extremely high levels of anxiety and other negative emotions. When released--often without any "decompression" period in lower-security facilities--they have few of the social or occupational skills necessary to succeed in the outside world.

Nonetheless, supermax facilities have become increasingly common over the past five to ten years.

"This is what prison systems do under emergency circumstances--they move to punitive social control mechanisms," explains Haney. "[but] it's a very short-term solution, and one that may do more long-term damage both to the system and to the individuals than it solves."

Of course, I can find a lot more information on criminal rehabilitation. All it takes is a little research. <_</>

research Alabama prisons. They offer trade school certification. Autobody, welding, upholstery, horticulture, classes i would have to pay to take. Plus online college courses. It might help some. The majority it does not.

[alexava 6,973]

Ok while Louisiana is not a state that's laws and sentencing I am familiar with, I applau them . How many times do you need to be told you go to prison for life for stealing before YOU QUIT stealing. It's pretty damn simple. And the reason I didn't believe the first link about the life sentence for stealing a jacket is it did not mention that was his 3rd or fourth conviction. Yes life without is still too stiff but he had plenty of chances.

For you to applaud a criminal justice system designed to pull in an extra buck while sending minorities to the big house for minor crimes is pretty pathetic.

i doubt the law has a clause that recognizes (minorities) or any other demographic in its sentencing guidelines.

It is well documented that racial disparities exist in the criminal justice system. Try Mccleskey v. Kemp. The Supreme Court admits racist disparities in the criminal justice system so you should too. Of course the law doesn't have sentencing guidelines for different races. That is called racism, a**hole.

aren't you the guy waving the confederate battle flag? Criminals are criminals race don't matter. ****head.

No, I'm for not banning exp<b></b>ressions over whims.You're too stupid to realize that. I said people that are NOT racist should not be judged as bigots for having one.Nice fruitless attempt of deflection.

Your second sentence is wrong. Race does matter. When 65 percent of the nonviolent prison-lifers are black and another 18 percent are Mexican, then it should be obvious that different races are not getting the benefit of the doubt.

that is not obvious to me at all. It shows me who is committing crimes at a higher rate. You might argue what causes minorities to resort to crime is racism (like feeling underappreciated by a state that flies a confederate flag in their face) or economic backgrounds. But to me prison demographics represent who is committing the crime.

[homersapien 11,367]

And now comes the part where we explain where this magical money tree exists to pay for infinite amounts of space to house non-violent criminals we have decided that rehabilitation is a worthless endeavor on.

Millions for incarceration, not one cent for rehabilitation.

rehabilitation is a fairly tale.

Is that your professional opinion or just something that makes you feel good to say?

http://www.nytimes.c...ilitation-works

"......My colleague Bandy Lee and I have shown that an intensive re-educational program with violent male offenders in the San Francisco jails reduced the level of violence in the jail to zero for a year at a time. Even more important, participation in this program for as little as four months reduced the frequency of violent reoffending after leaving the jail by 83 percent, compared with a matched control group in a conventional jail. In addition to enhancing public safety, this program saved the taxpayers $4 for every $1 spent on it, since the lower reincarceration rate saved roughly $30,000 a year per person. The only mystery is: Why is this program not being adopted by every jail and prison in the country? Why are taxpayers not demanding that this be done?"

http://www.apa.org/m...ug03/rehab.aspx

The punitive turn

Until the mid-1970s, rehabilitation was a key part of U.S. prison policy. Prisoners were encouraged to develop occupational skills and to resolve psychological problems--such as substance abuse or aggression--that might interfere with their reintegration into society. Indeed, many inmates received court sentences that mandated treatment for such problems.

Since then, however, rehabilitation has taken a back seat to a "get tough on crime" approach that sees punishment as prison's main function, says Haney. The approach has created explosive growth in the prison population, while having at most a modest effect on crime rates.

As a result, the United States now has more than 2 million people in prisons or jails--the equivalent of one in every 142 U.S. residents--and another four to five million people on probation or parole. A higher percentage of the population is involved in the criminal justice system in the United States than in any other developed country.

Many inmates have serious mental illnesses. Starting in the late 1950s and 1960s, new psychotropic drugs and the community health movement dramatically reduced the number of people in state mental hospitals. But in the 1980s, many of the mentally ill who had left mental institutions in the previous two decades began entering the criminal justice system....

Relevant research

To help shift the focus from punishment to rehabilitation, psychologists are doing research on the causes of crime and the psychological effects of incarceration.

In the 1970s, when major changes were being made to the U.S. prison system, psychologists had little hard data to contribute.

But in the past 25 years, says Haney, they have generated a massive literature documenting the importance of child abuse, poverty, early exposure to substance abuse and other risk factors for criminal behavior. The findings suggest that individual-centered approaches to crime prevention need to be complemented by community-based approaches.

Researchers have also found that the pessimistic "nothing works" attitude toward rehabilitation that helped justify punitive prison policies in the 1970s was overstated. When properly implemented, work programs, education and psychotherapy can ease prisoners' transitions to the free world, says Haney.

Finally, researchers have demonstrated the power of the prison environment to shape behavior, often to the detriment of both prisoners and prison workers.

The Stanford Prison Experiment, which Haney co-authored in 1973 with Stanford University psychologist and APA Past-president Philip G. Zimbardo, PhD, is one example. It showed that psychologically healthy individuals could become sadistic or depressed when placed in a prison-like environment.

More recently, Haney has been studying so-called "supermax" prisons--high-security units in which prisoners spend as many as 23 hours per day in solitary confinement for years at a time.

Haney's research has shown that many prisoners in supermax units experience extremely high levels of anxiety and other negative emotions. When released--often without any "decompression" period in lower-security facilities--they have few of the social or occupational skills necessary to succeed in the outside world.

Nonetheless, supermax facilities have become increasingly common over the past five to ten years.

"This is what prison systems do under emergency circumstances--they move to punitive social control mechanisms," explains Haney. "[but] it's a very short-term solution, and one that may do more long-term damage both to the system and to the individuals than it solves."

Of course, I can find a lot more information on criminal rehabilitation. All it takes is a little research. <_</>

research Alabama prisons. They offer trade school certification. Autobody, welding, upholstery, horticulture, classes i would have to pay to take. Plus online college courses. It might help some. The majority it does not.

So what's your point? You think those programs should be dropped?

[alexava 6,973]

And now comes the part where we explain where this magical money tree exists to pay for infinite amounts of space to house non-violent criminals we have decided that rehabilitation is a worthless endeavor on.

Millions for incarceration, not one cent for rehabilitation.

rehabilitation is a fairly tale.

Is that your professional opinion or just something that makes you feel good to say?

http://www.nytimes.c...ilitation-works

"......My colleague Bandy Lee and I have shown that an intensive re-educational program with violent male offenders in the San Francisco jails reduced the level of violence in the jail to zero for a year at a time. Even more important, participation in this program for as little as four months reduced the frequency of violent reoffending after leaving the jail by 83 percent, compared with a matched control group in a conventional jail. In addition to enhancing public safety, this program saved the taxpayers $4 for every $1 spent on it, since the lower reincarceration rate saved roughly $30,000 a year per person. The only mystery is: Why is this program not being adopted by every jail and prison in the country? Why are taxpayers not demanding that this be done?"

http://www.apa.org/m...ug03/rehab.aspx

The punitive turn

Until the mid-1970s, rehabilitation was a key part of U.S. prison policy. Prisoners were encouraged to develop occupational skills and to resolve psychological problems--such as substance abuse or aggression--that might interfere with their reintegration into society. Indeed, many inmates received court sentences that mandated treatment for such problems.

Since then, however, rehabilitation has taken a back seat to a "get tough on crime" approach that sees punishment as prison's main function, says Haney. The approach has created explosive growth in the prison population, while having at most a modest effect on crime rates.

As a result, the United States now has more than 2 million people in prisons or jails--the equivalent of one in every 142 U.S. residents--and another four to five million people on probation or parole. A higher percentage of the population is involved in the criminal justice system in the United States than in any other developed country.

Many inmates have serious mental illnesses. Starting in the late 1950s and 1960s, new psychotropic drugs and the community health movement dramatically reduced the number of people in state mental hospitals. But in the 1980s, many of the mentally ill who had left mental institutions in the previous two decades began entering the criminal justice system....

Relevant research

To help shift the focus from punishment to rehabilitation, psychologists are doing research on the causes of crime and the psychological effects of incarceration.

In the 1970s, when major changes were being made to the U.S. prison system, psychologists had little hard data to contribute.

But in the past 25 years, says Haney, they have generated a massive literature documenting the importance of child abuse, poverty, early exposure to substance abuse and other risk factors for criminal behavior. The findings suggest that individual-centered approaches to crime prevention need to be complemented by community-based approaches.

Researchers have also found that the pessimistic "nothing works" attitude toward rehabilitation that helped justify punitive prison policies in the 1970s was overstated. When properly implemented, work programs, education and psychotherapy can ease prisoners' transitions to the free world, says Haney.

Finally, researchers have demonstrated the power of the prison environment to shape behavior, often to the detriment of both prisoners and prison workers.

The Stanford Prison Experiment, which Haney co-authored in 1973 with Stanford University psychologist and APA Past-president Philip G. Zimbardo, PhD, is one example. It showed that psychologically healthy individuals could become sadistic or depressed when placed in a prison-like environment.

More recently, Haney has been studying so-called "supermax" prisons--high-security units in which prisoners spend as many as 23 hours per day in solitary confinement for years at a time.

Haney's research has shown that many prisoners in supermax units experience extremely high levels of anxiety and other negative emotions. When released--often without any "decompression" period in lower-security facilities--they have few of the social or occupational skills necessary to succeed in the outside world.

Nonetheless, supermax facilities have become increasingly common over the past five to ten years.

"This is what prison systems do under emergency circumstances--they move to punitive social control mechanisms," explains Haney. "[but] it's a very short-term solution, and one that may do more long-term damage both to the system and to the individuals than it solves."

Of course, I can find a lot more information on criminal rehabilitation. All it takes is a little research. <_</>

research Alabama prisons. They offer trade school certification. Autobody, welding, upholstery, horticulture, classes i would have to pay to take. Plus online college courses. It might help some. The majority it does not.

So what's your point? You think those programs should be dropped?

no. I'm glad they are offered. It might help a few. But it is what they do to pass time so they can get back out and return to their chosen field of crime sooner. That is a fact.

[aujeff11 6,243]

Ok while Louisiana is not a state that's laws and sentencing I am familiar with, I applau them . How many times do you need to be told you go to prison for life for stealing before YOU QUIT stealing. It's pretty damn simple. And the reason I didn't believe the first link about the life sentence for stealing a jacket is it did not mention that was his 3rd or fourth conviction. Yes life without is still too stiff but he had plenty of chances.

For you to applaud a criminal justice system designed to pull in an extra buck while sending minorities to the big house for minor crimes is pretty pathetic.

i doubt the law has a clause that recognizes (minorities) or any other demographic in its sentencing guidelines.

It is well documented that racial disparities exist in the criminal justice system. Try Mccleskey v. Kemp. The Supreme Court admits racist disparities in the criminal justice system so you should too. Of course the law doesn't have sentencing guidelines for different races. That is called racism, a**hole.

aren't you the guy waving the confederate battle flag? Criminals are criminals race don't matter. ****head.

No, I'm for not banning expressions over whims.You're too stupid to realize that. I said people that are NOT racist should not be judged as bigots for having one.Nice fruitless attempt of deflection.

Your second sentence is wrong. Race does matter. When 65 percent of the nonviolent prison-lifers are black and another 18 percent are Mexican, then it should be obvious that different races are not getting the benefit of the doubt.

that is not obvious to me at all. It shows me who is committing crimes at a higher rate. You might argue what causes minorities to resort to crime is racism (like feeling underappreciated by a state that flies a confederate flag in their face) or economic backgrounds. But to me prison demographics represent who is committing the crime.

Yeah or they could feel unappreciated because Bush's garbage War on Drugs's program sent many nonviolent offenders to prison. And once a defendant is found guilty of a felony, the chances of decent employment dwindles tremendously, he/she will not qualify for welfare anymore, and in some states his right to vote ceases completely. But keep on thinking that the Confederate Flag is making these people feel under appreciated! If you want to call me a racist again, bump the confederate flag thread. If not, quit deflecting and discuss some matters that are relevant to this subject

[homersapien 11,367]

Ok while Louisiana is not a state that's laws and sentencing I am familiar with, I applau them . How many times do you need to be told you go to prison for life for stealing before YOU QUIT stealing. It's pretty damn simple. And the reason I didn't believe the first link about the life sentence for stealing a jacket is it did not mention that was his 3rd or fourth conviction. Yes life without is still too stiff but he had plenty of chances.

For you to applaud a criminal justice system designed to pull in an extra buck while sending minorities to the big house for minor crimes is pretty pathetic.

i doubt the law has a clause that recognizes (minorities) or any other demographic in its sentencing guidelines.

It is well documented that racial disparities exist in the criminal justice system. Try Mccleskey v. Kemp. The Supreme Court admits racist disparities in the criminal justice system so you should too. Of course the law doesn't have sentencing guidelines for different races. That is called racism, a**hole.

aren't you the guy waving the confederate battle flag? Criminals are criminals race don't matter. ****head.

No, I'm for not banning expressions over whims.You're too stupid to realize that. I said people that are NOT racist should not be judged as bigots for having one.Nice fruitless attempt of deflection.

Your second sentence is wrong. Race does matter. When 65 percent of the nonviolent prison-lifers are black and another 18 percent are Mexican, then it should be obvious that different races are not getting the benefit of the doubt.

that is not obvious to me at all. It shows me who is committing crimes at a higher rate. You might argue what causes minorities to resort to crime is racism (like feeling underappreciated by a state that flies a confederate flag in their face) or economic backgrounds. But to me prison demographics represent who is committing the crime.

If that was literally true, there would be a lot of banking CEOs in prison (just as one example).

While it may be true that blacks and latinos (for example) commit a disproportional number of common crimes such as theft or drug dealing, there are reasons for that including employment and educational opportunities not to mention things like child abuse and bad parenting in general. That's probably true for most inmates, regardless of race.

And there is probably a much higher incidence of psychopaths in the prison population. But people with psychopathic tendencies can be easily identified. ("The Wisdom of Psychopaths" - Dutton)

Regardless, considering the number of prisoners now, it just doesn't seem very sensible to write them off as incorrigible, especially if the science suggests otherwise.

[homersapien 11,367]

And now comes the part where we explain where this magical money tree exists to pay for infinite amounts of space to house non-violent criminals we have decided that rehabilitation is a worthless endeavor on.

Millions for incarceration, not one cent for rehabilitation.

rehabilitation is a fairly tale.

Is that your professional opinion or just something that makes you feel good to say?

http://www.nytimes.c...ilitation-works

"......My colleague Bandy Lee and I have shown that an intensive re-educational program with violent male offenders in the San Francisco jails reduced the level of violence in the jail to zero for a year at a time. Even more important, participation in this program for as little as four months reduced the frequency of violent reoffending after leaving the jail by 83 percent, compared with a matched control group in a conventional jail. In addition to enhancing public safety, this program saved the taxpayers $4 for every $1 spent on it, since the lower reincarceration rate saved roughly $30,000 a year per person. The only mystery is: Why is this program not being adopted by every jail and prison in the country? Why are taxpayers not demanding that this be done?"

http://www.apa.org/m...ug03/rehab.aspx

The punitive turn

Until the mid-1970s, rehabilitation was a key part of U.S. prison policy. Prisoners were encouraged to develop occupational skills and to resolve psychological problems--such as substance abuse or aggression--that might interfere with their reintegration into society. Indeed, many inmates received court sentences that mandated treatment for such problems.

Since then, however, rehabilitation has taken a back seat to a "get tough on crime" approach that sees punishment as prison's main function, says Haney. The approach has created explosive growth in the prison population, while having at most a modest effect on crime rates.

As a result, the United States now has more than 2 million people in prisons or jails--the equivalent of one in every 142 U.S. residents--and another four to five million people on probation or parole. A higher percentage of the population is involved in the criminal justice system in the United States than in any other developed country.

Many inmates have serious mental illnesses. Starting in the late 1950s and 1960s, new psychotropic drugs and the community health movement dramatically reduced the number of people in state mental hospitals. But in the 1980s, many of the mentally ill who had left mental institutions in the previous two decades began entering the criminal justice system....

Relevant research

To help shift the focus from punishment to rehabilitation, psychologists are doing research on the causes of crime and the psychological effects of incarceration.

In the 1970s, when major changes were being made to the U.S. prison system, psychologists had little hard data to contribute.

But in the past 25 years, says Haney, they have generated a massive literature documenting the importance of child abuse, poverty, early exposure to substance abuse and other risk factors for criminal behavior. The findings suggest that individual-centered approaches to crime prevention need to be complemented by community-based approaches.

Researchers have also found that the pessimistic "nothing works" attitude toward rehabilitation that helped justify punitive prison policies in the 1970s was overstated. When properly implemented, work programs, education and psychotherapy can ease prisoners' transitions to the free world, says Haney.

Finally, researchers have demonstrated the power of the prison environment to shape behavior, often to the detriment of both prisoners and prison workers.

The Stanford Prison Experiment, which Haney co-authored in 1973 with Stanford University psychologist and APA Past-president Philip G. Zimbardo, PhD, is one example. It showed that psychologically healthy individuals could become sadistic or depressed when placed in a prison-like environment.

More recently, Haney has been studying so-called "supermax" prisons--high-security units in which prisoners spend as many as 23 hours per day in solitary confinement for years at a time.

Haney's research has shown that many prisoners in supermax units experience extremely high levels of anxiety and other negative emotions. When released--often without any "decompression" period in lower-security facilities--they have few of the social or occupational skills necessary to succeed in the outside world.

Nonetheless, supermax facilities have become increasingly common over the past five to ten years.

"This is what prison systems do under emergency circumstances--they move to punitive social control mechanisms," explains Haney. "[but] it's a very short-term solution, and one that may do more long-term damage both to the system and to the individuals than it solves."

Of course, I can find a lot more information on criminal rehabilitation. All it takes is a little research. <_</>

research Alabama prisons. They offer trade school certification. Autobody, welding, upholstery, horticulture, classes i would have to pay to take. Plus online college courses. It might help some. The majority it does not.

So what's your point? You think those programs should be dropped?

no. I'm glad they are offered. It might help a few. But it is what they do to pass time so they can get back out and return to their chosen field of crime sooner. That is a fact.

Do you have any statistics on that? Or are you still just pulling stuff out your ass?

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Do you have any statistics on that, or are you still just pulling stuff our your ass?

Fact-free declarations are a specialty here.

[alexava 6,973]

My ass is just as reliable as anything else i have seen today.

[alexava 6,973]

Ok while Louisiana is not a state that's laws and sentencing I am familiar with, I applau them . How many times do you need to be told you go to prison for life for stealing before YOU QUIT stealing. It's pretty damn simple. And the reason I didn't believe the first link about the life sentence for stealing a jacket is it did not mention that was his 3rd or fourth conviction. Yes life without is still too stiff but he had plenty of chances.

For you to applaud a criminal justice system designed to pull in an extra buck while sending minorities to the big house for minor crimes is pretty pathetic.

i doubt the law has a clause that recognizes (minorities) or any other demographic in its sentencing guidelines.

It is well documented that racial disparities exist in the criminal justice system. Try Mccleskey v. Kemp. The Supreme Court admits racist disparities in the criminal justice system so you should too. Of course the law doesn't have sentencing guidelines for different races. That is called racism, a**hole.

aren't you the guy waving the confederate battle flag? Criminals are criminals race don't matter. ****head.

No, I'm for not banning exp<b></b>ressions over whims.You're too stupid to realize that. I said people that are NOT racist should not be judged as bigots for having one.Nice fruitless attempt of deflection.

Your second sentence is wrong. Race does matter. When 65 percent of the nonviolent prison-lifers are black and another 18 percent are Mexican, then it should be obvious that different races are not getting the benefit of the doubt.

that is not obvious to me at all. It shows me who is committing crimes at a higher rate. You might argue what causes minorities to resort to crime is racism (like feeling underappreciated by a state that flies a confederate flag in their face) or economic backgrounds. But to me prison demographics represent who is committing the crime.

If that was literally true, there would be a lot of banking CEOs in prison (just as one example).

While it may be true that blacks and latinos (for example) commit a disproportional number of common crimes such as theft or drug dealing, there are reasons for that including employment and educational opportunities not to mention things like child abuse and bad parenting in general. That's probably true for most inmates, regardless of race.

And there is probably a much higher incidence of psychopaths in the prison population. But people with psychopathic tendencies can be easily identified. ("The Wisdom of Psychopaths" - Dutton)

Regardless, considering the number of prisoners now, it just doesn't seem very sensible to write them off as incorrigible, especially if the science suggests otherwise.

i am not writing them off. I am watching them write themselves off. It's not society's fault it is society's problem. I don't know what science shows but history and criminal records show that we are releasing people who have repeatedly shown they can't and have no intention of living within the law.

[JoeBags7277 734]

My ass is just as reliable as anything else i have seen today.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

i am not writing them off. I am watching them write themselves off. It's not society's fault it is society's problem. I don't know what science shows but history and criminal records show that we are releasing people who have repeatedly shown they can't and have no intention of living within the law.

And because we over-incarcerate people we shouldn't, we are even releasing people who've done violent crime early in some instances because we don't have the money or space to house them all. If we would stop hammering people for relatively minor offenses with prison time and reserve it for the truly dangerous, we'd be safer overall and be pouring less money into corrections.

[aujeff11 6,243]

Ok while Louisiana is not a state that's laws and sentencing I am familiar with, I applau them . How many times do you need to be told you go to prison for life for stealing before YOU QUIT stealing. It's pretty damn simple. And the reason I didn't believe the first link about the life sentence for stealing a jacket is it did not mention that was his 3rd or fourth conviction. Yes life without is still too stiff but he had plenty of chances.

For you to applaud a criminal justice system designed to pull in an extra buck while sending minorities to the big house for minor crimes is pretty pathetic.

i doubt the law has a clause that recognizes (minorities) or any other demographic in its sentencing guidelines.

It is well documented that racial disparities exist in the criminal justice system. Try Mccleskey v. Kemp. The Supreme Court admits racist disparities in the criminal justice system so you should too. Of course the law doesn't have sentencing guidelines for different races. That is called racism, a**hole.

aren't you the guy waving the confederate battle flag? Criminals are criminals race don't matter. ****head.

No, I'm for not banning expressions over whims.You're too stupid to realize that. I said people that are NOT racist should not be judged as bigots for having one.Nice fruitless attempt of deflection.

Your second sentence is wrong. Race does matter. When 65 percent of the nonviolent prison-lifers are black and another 18 percent are Mexican, then it should be obvious that different races are not getting the benefit of the doubt.

that is not obvious to me at all. It shows me who is committing crimes at a higher rate. You might argue what causes minorities to resort to crime is racism (like feeling underappreciated by a state that flies a confederate flag in their face) or economic backgrounds. But to me prison demographics represent who is committing the crime.

If that was literally true, there would be a lot of banking CEOs in prison (just as one example).

While it may be true that blacks and latinos (for example) commit a disproportional number of common crimes such as theft or drug dealing, there are reasons for that including employment and educational opportunities not to mention things like child abuse and bad parenting in general. That's probably true for most inmates, regardless of race.

And there is probably a much higher incidence of psychopaths in the prison population. But people with psychopathic tendencies can be easily identified. ("The Wisdom of Psychopaths" - Dutton)

Regardless, considering the number of prisoners now, it just doesn't seem very sensible to write them off as incorrigible, especially if the science suggests otherwise.

i am not writing them off. I am watching them write themselves off. It's not society's fault it is society's problem. I don't know what science shows but history and criminal records show that we are releasing people who have repeatedly shown they can't and have no intention of living within the law.

The law already has the habitual offenders act. You know...the one where you thought the guy getting sent to prison for life for stealing a jacket was false only because you did not know he already had 2 non-violent felonies under his belt. So there is not a continuing cycle of people going in and out. The minimum mandatory sentences pretty much double.

However bitching because people get released even though you think they havent changed isn't going to get you anywhere. Unless they are shanking people in prison, whether they are changed or not, they will be getting out on their designated date. You sound like you are demanding mandatory life sentences Which is absurd.. Inflexible sentencing along with the war on drugs are the two reasons why our prisons are overcrowded now to begin with. Again, over 95% of the prison population will walk out of prisons one day and only a very small percentage will die in prison. If you want to lock that 95% into their cells for 10 years and let them walk out out of prison like ticking time bombs that is on you.

I don't know what science shows but history and criminal records show that we are releasing people who have repeatedly shown they can't and have no intention of living within the law.

Bring out the criminal records then. I have provided plenty of evidence and links to support my case. So has Titan and Homer. Your "bad people are going to be bad" argument is getting old.