Keeping an eye on Al Qaeda

[TexasTiger 13,000]

F.B.I. Watched Activist Groups, New Files Show

By ERIC LICHTBLAU

Published: December 20, 2005

WASHINGTON, Dec. 19 - Counterterrorism agents at the Federal Bureau of Investigation have conducted numerous surveillance and intelligence-gathering operations that involved, at least indirectly, groups active in causes as diverse as the environment, animal cruelty and poverty relief, newly disclosed agency records show.

F.B.I. officials said Monday that their investigators had no interest in monitoring political or social activities and that any investigations that touched on advocacy groups were driven by evidence of criminal or violent activity at public protests and in other settings.

After the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, John Ashcroft, who was then attorney general, loosened restrictions on the F.B.I.'s investigative powers, giving the bureau greater ability to visit and monitor Web sites, mosques and other public entities in developing terrorism leads. The bureau has used that authority to investigate not only groups with suspected ties to foreign terrorists, but also protest groups suspected of having links to violent or disruptive activities.

But the documents, coming after the Bush administration's confirmation that President Bush had authorized some spying without warrants in fighting terrorism, prompted charges from civil rights advocates that the government had improperly blurred the line between terrorism and acts of civil disobedience and lawful protest.

One F.B.I. document indicates that agents in Indianapolis planned to conduct surveillance as part of a "Vegan Community Project." Another document talks of the Catholic Workers group's "semi-communistic ideology." A third indicates the bureau's interest in determining the location of a protest over llama fur planned by People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals.

The documents, provided to The New York Times over the past week, came as part of a series of Freedom of Information Act lawsuits brought by the American Civil Liberties Union. For more than a year, the A.C.L.U. has been seeking access to information in F.B.I. files on about 150 protest and social groups that it says may have been improperly monitored.

The F.B.I. had previously turned over a small number of documents on antiwar groups, showing the agency's interest in investigating possible anarchist or violent links in connection with antiwar protests and demonstrations in advance of the 2004 political conventions. And earlier this month, the A.C.L.U.'s Colorado chapter released similar documents involving, among other things, people protesting logging practices at a lumber industry gathering in 2002.

The latest batch of documents, parts of which the A.C.L.U. plans to release publicly on Tuesday, totals more than 2,300 pages and centers on references in internal files to a handful of groups, including PETA, the environmental group Greenpeace and the Catholic Workers group, which promotes antipoverty efforts and social causes.

Many of the investigative documents turned over by the bureau are heavily edited, making it difficult or impossible to determine the full context of the references and why the F.B.I. may have been discussing events like a PETA protest. F.B.I. officials say many of the references may be much more benign than they seem to civil rights advocates, adding that the documents offer an incomplete and sometimes misleading snapshot of the bureau's activities.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/20/politics...4c4e311&ei=5070

I know some Vegans that kinda irritate me, but I don't think they are much of a threat. Now, Anti-Poverty Catholics, on the other hand, bear serious watching.

[AURaptor 1,126]

We'd be stupid not to keep tabs on a few of those groups. Smart move by the FBI.

[TexasTiger 13,000]

We'd be stupid not to keep tabs on a few of those groups. Smart move by the FBI.

207941[/snapback]

So who scares you most? The Vegans, or the Catholics?

[AURaptor 1,126]

We'd be stupid not to keep tabs on a few of those groups. Smart move by the FBI.

207941[/snapback]

So who scares you most? The Vegans, or the Catholics?

207957[/snapback]

Well, not being a 12 yr old Alter Boy, I'd have to say the Vegans. Definatly the Vegans. I don't trust anyone that doesn't eat meat.

[TexasTiger 13,000]

We'd be stupid not to keep tabs on a few of those groups. Smart move by the FBI.

207941[/snapback]

So who scares you most? The Vegans, or the Catholics?

207957[/snapback]

Well, not being a 12 yr old Alter Boy, I'd have to say the Vegans. Definatly the Vegans. I don't trust anyone that doesn't eat meat.

208125[/snapback]

I wouldn't mind sharing the dinner table with some vegans, though. More meat for me.

[Bottomfeeder 244]

Well, if you look at the design of the vegans vs. meateaters, there are differences.

Vegans:

flat teeth for eating vegetable, nuts, grains and fruits

long intestines for digesting vegetables, nuts, grains and fruits

Carnivores:

sharp fang-type teeth for ripping flesh

short intestines for digesting meat/flesh

"Human characteristics are in every way like the fruit eaters, very similar to the grass- eater, and very unlike the meat eaters.The human digestive system, tooth and jaw structure, and bodily functions are completely different from carnivorous animals. As in the case of the anthropoid ape, the human digestive system is twelve times the length of the body; our skin has millions of tiny pores to evaporate water and cool the body by sweating; we drink water by suction like all other vegetarian animals; our tooth and jaw structure is vegetarian; and our saliva is alkaline and contains ptyalin for predigestion of grains. Human beings clearly are not carnivores by physiology -- our anatomy and digestive system show that we must have evolved for millions of years living on fruits, nuts, grains, and vegetables."

http://www.jtcwd.com/vegie/plant_or_meat_eaters.html

http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/

[quietfan 233]

Seems like something of a silly topic for me to be wasting my time on, but it drew my curiosity:

1) As far as FBI surveillance: Momentarily putting aside the deep constitutional questions, I'd like to think the FBI had more important uses for their limited resources than investigating Vegans, Catholics, & PETA.

2) The scientist in me has to point out that humans are biologically omnivores--we have traits that enable us to eat both meat and plants. Our flat molars are plant grinders, but our canine teeth are definitely meat tearers. [Don't see many horses, cows, or wildebeasts with canines!] Our natural, pre-agriculture, pre-tool diet probably most nearly resembled chimpanzees & baboons who eat both plants and animals, but plants probably constituted the larger share of our diet until tools made hunting more efficient. Most humans prefer the taste of meats and sugary foods to grains, tubors, and leaves--which no doubt reflects the value these high caloric items had in times when food was scarce and it made sense to seek those items that packed the most nutritional value into the smallest package. I have no problem with Vegans eating as they please, but there is no scientific basis for saying humans should never eat meat.

[DKW 86 7,440]

We'd be stupid not to keep tabs on a few of those groups. Smart move by the FBI.

207941[/snapback]

So who scares you most? The Vegans, or the Catholics?

207957[/snapback]

Well, not being a 12 yr old Alter Boy, I'd have to say the Vegans. Definatly the Vegans. I don't trust anyone that doesn't eat meat.

208125[/snapback]

Hitler was a Vegan....

[AWK 0]

We'd be stupid not to keep tabs on a few of those groups. Smart move by the FBI.

207941[/snapback]

So who scares you most? The Vegans, or the Catholics?

207957[/snapback]

Well, not being a 12 yr old Alter Boy, I'd have to say the Vegans. Definatly the Vegans. I don't trust anyone that doesn't eat meat.

208125[/snapback]

Hitler was a Vegan....

210263[/snapback]

AND the Catholics turned the other cheek to what the nazi's were doing.......Oh my goodness, its all starting to make sense now