Private vs Public school debate

[TigerMom 0]

As an educator, I am a very strong supporter of the public school system. However, I have to agree the public school system in Mobile, as a whole, is terrible. I taught at a private school in Mobile, and my husband and I always said if they could close every private school in Mobile and have those students attend the public schools, the Mobile school system would improve overnight. They might have the money, resources, parent involvement and students to improve. Unfortunately that will never happen, and unfortunately, they are not the only struggling public school system in the south. Charleston County school district (South Carolina) may be worse.

[War Eagle 96 10]

As an educator, I am a very strong supporter of the public school system. However, I have to agree the public school system in Mobile, as a whole, is terrible. I taught at a private school in Mobile, and my husband and I always said if they could close every private school in Mobile and have those students attend the public schools, the Mobile school system would improve overnight. They might have the money, resources, parent involvement and students to improve. Unfortunately that will never happen, and unfortunately, they are not the only struggling public school system in the south. Charleston County school district (South Carolina) may be worse.

A very high priority for Karl Marx in creating a "successful" socialist society was to give control of the education of childeren over to the government. It's in the Communist Manifestod.

[Fmnstr 0]

As an educator, I am a very strong supporter of the public school system. However, I have to agree the public school system in Mobile, as a whole, is terrible. I taught at a private school in Mobile, and my husband and I always said if they could close every private school in Mobile and have those students attend the public schools, the Mobile school system would improve overnight. They might have the money, resources, parent involvement and students to improve. Unfortunately that will never happen, and unfortunately, they are not the only struggling public school system in the south. Charleston County school district (South Carolina) may be worse.

A very high priority for Karl Marx in creating a "successful" socialist society was to give control of the education of childeren over to the government. It's in the Communist Manifestod.

and?

[FootballFanatic 4]

Just because it is an importance of one type of government doesn't mean it isn't important for any others.

The power this country has gained has come from 2 sources. The first being abundant natural resources including food and water. The second being the goal to educate the entire country by socialist minded americans in the early 1900's.

Education of every american spurned a huge growth in technology and innovation in this nation and the college education given to many of the returning GI's from WWI and WWII spurned that growth to reach a very intellectual population.

Honestly, its in the best interests of every american to force change in our public education system. Not just cop out and put your kids in private education and give up. Things need to change and ignoring the problem and buying your way past it is just not helping it.

[AU_tiger_2000 0]

Just because it is an importance of one type of government doesn't mean it isn't important for any others.

The power this country has gained has come from 2 sources. The first being abundant natural resources including food and water. The second being the goal to educate the entire country by socialist minded americans in the early 1900's.

Education of every american spurned a huge growth in technology and innovation in this nation and the college education given to many of the returning GI's from WWI and WWII spurned that growth to reach a very intellectual population.

Honestly, its in the best interests of every american to force change in our public education system. Not just cop out and put your kids in private education and give up. Things need to change and ignoring the problem and buying your way past it is just not helping it.

How is assuring that your kids get every advantage you can offer thru your hard work a "cop out"? My dad was a UPS driver and my mom a school teacher and they scrimped and saved to put me and my sister thru private school so that we could have the best education available in our county.

Also why do you not capitalize American?

[CCTAU 3,327]

Just because it is an importance of one type of government doesn't mean it isn't important for any others.

The power this country has gained has come from 2 sources. The first being abundant natural resources including food and water. The second being the goal to educate the entire country by socialist minded americans in the early 1900's.

Education of every american spurned a huge growth in technology and innovation in this nation and the college education given to many of the returning GI's from WWI and WWII spurned that growth to reach a very intellectual population.

Honestly, its in the best interests of every american to force change in our public education system. Not just cop out and put your kids in private education and give up. Things need to change and ignoring the problem and buying your way past it is just not helping it.

The more you post, the more you sound like a socialist. You are probably drooling over Hillary.

Every time we try to EQUALIZE (socialize) education, we end up teaching at the lowest level instead of forcing all to pick up their game.

[mcgufcm 4,101]

"every advantage" my @$$. lemme put it this way: i started in a public school, switched over to private for a few years when a lot of my friends transferred (in 3rd grade), came to my senses and realized that isolating yourself from diversity (ethnic, religious, or otherwise) only serves to make you more ignorant, took my public diploma to a public land-grant university (over private school offers), currently work/study in china, will be attending a public law school (over private offers) next fall, and i'd put my education (except maybe 3rd to 6th grade) up against anyone i've ever met.

it's such a complete and total load of crap to say that private schools inherently offer the best education. most of the private schools i've seen (living in the south i've seen more than my share of them) are completely devoid of independent thought from the administration through the faculty right on down to the students. there is more propaganda in the private school system than almost any other private endeavor in America (happy?). if public schools are socialistic or communistic, then private schools are America's version of fascism.

i don't have any problem with people sending their kids to private schools; i just have a problem with the brainwashing that occurs after they do. let's be honest about, regardless of why they continue, 90% (and i'm being generous) of all private schools in the south started because mama and daddy didn't want junior going to school with black folks. it wasn't for good "Christian" education (funny how they omit being engaged in the world and ignore the crowd the JC ministered to in order to instill their "Christian values"); it wasn't because of poor school districts.

send your kids there if you want, just be sure to pay your taxes, stop begging for handouts from big brother that you hate so much, and quit the condescending act. you didn't get a better education than anyone i went to school with.

[tombigbeetiger 223]

if you want to dumb down your kids, send them to todays public schools.....all of my grandkids go to private schools and it sure does appear that none of them will ever have to make a career out of burger king or dollar general.....tyhe best education comes from the private schools and that is a fact.....there are exceptions of course, but public school is not the educational facilty that it used to be.....it is hardly more than a federally funded day care system

[auwallace 6]

if you want to dumb down your kids, send them to todays public schools.....all of my grandkids go to private schools and it sure does appear that none of them will ever have to make a career out of burger king or dollar general.....tyhe best education comes from the private schools and that is a fact.....there are exceptions of course, but public school is not the educational facilty that it used to be.....it is hardly more than a federally funded day care system

you have no idea what you're talking about, do yourself a favor and check out the curriculum at Murphy High School, that's right a mobile public high school. You won't find a more diverse offering of classes in the school district. Saying that public schools are worthless is a slap in the face to probably have the college aged people on this board. The education is there, its what one does with those opportunities that matters.

[quietfan 233]

Seems like this thread has drifted from football to politics, but my $0.02:

There are both good and bad schools in both the public and private sector in Alabama, so it's probably good for parents/children to have the choice in most cases. I do have a problem, however, with private schools that exist only to promote racial segregation or religious intolerance.

My personal pet peeve, though, is the idea of vouchers or any other mechanisms that permit parents to take their tax money out of the public school system because their children attend private schools. As citizens, we don't pay education taxes just to educate our own children. We pay these taxes because we recognize importance of universal education to the overall good of our society. If we buy into the premise that parents' tax money is only for the good of their own children and may follow those children, then that large section of the population, like myself, that have no children shouldn't have to pay any education taxes at all. It's one thing to expect accountability for all our tax money and demand excellence in the public school system, it's somethng else entirely to say if my kids aren't in the public school system I don't owe the public school system anything.

I also believe that responsible parents can succeed in raising well-educated children regardless of which school they attend if there is sufficient emphasis on reading, hard work, and positive role models in the home.

[AU_tiger_2000 0]

"every advantage" my @$$. lemme put it this way: i started in a public school, switched over to private for a few years when a lot of my friends transferred (in 3rd grade), came to my senses and realized that isolating yourself from diversity (ethnic, religious, or otherwise) only serves to make you more ignorant, took my public diploma to a public land-grant university (over private school offers), currently work/study in china, will be attending a public law school (over private offers) next fall, and i'd put my education (except maybe 3rd to 6th grade) up against anyone i've ever met.

Anecdotal evidence is just that, anecdotal. One case does not make your point. I didn't say that all private schools are better than all public schools.

send your kids there if you want, just be sure to pay your taxes, stop begging for handouts from big brother that you hate so much, and quit the condescending act. you didn't get a better education than anyone i went to school with.

How do you plan on proving that? I graduated with 20 kids which is about the average size for a class from my school. A guy I graduated with is running his own plywood mill in Monroeville, a guy from the year ahead of me is a Fulbright scholar lecturing on autism in the Ukraine, and I'm an engineer for NASA (all Auburn grads too, WDE). Now the same that goes for you goes for me too, I don't think I've proven the value of private schools because I had a good education at one no more than you've proven they're bad because you had a bad experience. All I am saying is that parents should look around at the school their child will be attending if they enroll in public schools, do their research, and if that option is not good then a private school is a good alternative. My response was to the guy who said that sending your kids to a private school was a "cop out" because you should have a responsibility to try to improve the schools in your area. That's BS, my first responsibility is to my child. I'm not going to apologize for having the means to give my kid an advantage. That's the point of living in the US, I have alternatives and the harder I work and the more I earn the more alternatives and advantages my kid has. Anyone who thinks different can kiss my a$$ because I don't care what their opinion of me is.

[mcgufcm 4,101]

you rebuttal would be true if my point was that i am intelligent and thus well-educated. my point is that the education offered me through the public school systems as at the very worst on par with anything you (or anyone else) was offered in private school. i believe there is immense value in experiencing diversity. so, given that assumption, i think you completely lost out by graduating with 20 other people while i finished as one of 326. i have no problem saying that your complete education (not just what you get in the classroom) was worse off because of it.

my point is, the education offered to any person in my school district was as good as any private education, the education offered by auburn was as good as any private school if you don't get lazy and look for crip classes, and the education offered at uva is as good as any law school in America. i firmly believe that public schools offer more than private schools because they offer all this alongside large student bodies that bring much more diverse thought and experience along with them. your argument that you went to school with smart kids too... that doesn't damage my statements one bit.

personally, i do think it's a little bit of a cop out, but if you aren't coming at it from my perspective, then it changes the whole question. here's where i'm coming from: i believe the Bible consistently teaches engagement with humanity ("in the world, not of it," the life of Daniel educated in Chaldean courts, Paul seeking out barbarians and Greeks, etc.); so if i want my child to be reinforced with the lessons of the Text, i won't send him to a school because they teach Bible history or pray over the intercom. i'll teach him how to be a man at home; then i'll send him to school to be that man among the masses. by doing that, you CAN raise the standard. you CAN improve the system. but you can only do it by engaging it. doing otherwise, i believe, is actually isolationist and against everything i learn in the Text. i understand having to protect your child, but i also know some of the most messed up, drug addicted kids i've ever met went to private schools. life and trouble will find kids no matter where they are.

[CCTAU 3,327]

For the last 30 years the public school system has been going down hill over all. There are some good public schools, but on the whole they are managed poorly and tend to lean toward the librul side of life. The education union has finally succeeded in dumbing down America. Yes there are private school kids who are worthless. But on a whole, the private school atmosphere is better condusive to learning. The whole, "you don't get diversity" argument is not entirely true. There are many folks who go to private schools who know how to deal with all walks of life. But the point of this thread is to point out how poorly the public school system seems to be managed. These two cases just illuminate these issues.

The private vs. public debate will always go on. But when you go private, you have a choice as to how your child is educated. You go public and the gubment tells you how to educate your child. Not only that, if you have no children, then how can you argue (for those of you with no children)?

['76 Tiger 108]

The issue of personal responsibility overrides politics. As a parent, you are obliged to get the best available education for your child, considering the educational and social factors. My wife and I have home-schooled three sons through high school and we have an 11-year daughter with a condition similar to Downs Syndrome. We made, and continue to make decisions each year on an ad hoc basis.

The decision must be made on the basis of your child. If you try to improve the system, you are sacrificing your child to your political ideals. You can't change the system quickly enough to impact your child's education.

As in football, coaching begins with the next play. It is all you have.

WDE.

[aumd03 2]

I'm a public school graduate. I blew the socks off most private schools students in test scores. Public schools are better in some cities/counties than others. In Huntsville/Madison County, there are only a few schools in which private schools would be considered better. One thing we need to give up on is that not everyone is a Rhodes scholar. People that get awards in a private school would likely get those in public schools with a few grand extra in their pockets. My mom teaches in a public high school and is an excellent teacher and produces students whose work is objectively judged superior to private schools on a regular basis. Its an insult to call her a glorified baby sitter as some have suggested. If you want to send your kid to private school, more power to you, but if you child can't succeed in a public school, its probably not the fault of the teacher, but what's between your child's ears and how they are raised and how you are taking part in their education as a parent.

The biggest problem I see with private schools is lack of credentialing. Public schools must meet certain standards. You could have a high school grad teaching in a private school.

[mcgufcm 4,101]

the next play is the only one you have?? what? so you should never make decisions that may have negative impacts on the lives of the your generation or the next? really? that's insanity. we make hard decisions for the greater, long-term good all the time. was integration easier or better for the people who had to deal with riots and busing and everything else that came along with it? no, it wasn't. they suffered. decisions were made the hurt the schools overall, but it was the right thing to do. AND it made the system more equitable and better in the long-run. those students, someone's children, suffered without their say-so most of the time so that i (and my generation) could benefit. while this isn't the civil rights movement, my point is that we, Americans in particular, don't live for the "next play." we live for winning the game down the line. the coach that only coaches for this play is a coach that can't set up a defense... it's nallball, and it won't give you many wins.

and even people without children can enter this discussion because all of us more than likely went to high school and most of us probably went to college AND most of us are old enough to pay taxes. so we certainly all have not only an opinion but also a stake. and most education takes place in the home. no matter where a kid goes, if the parents don't make him study, he won't learn. so i don't now nor have i ever bought the argument that going to a public school cripples a parent's ability to give his/her child a quality education. and on the whole, private schools are average as the day is long with more unqualified (if less apathetic) teachers.

also, i would actually argue that the issue of personal responsibility IS politics, not overrides. now when you're dealing with children with special needs (prayers for your daughter), it's an entirely different ballgame. i hope all goes well with her.

[TitanTiger 20,498]

You guys can debate back and forth and talk about the grander scheme of diversity and all that crap all day. But my kids aren't going to be social experiments. We have a good elementary public school we're zoned for, so I plan on sending my kids there. If we are still living in this school zone when they get to middle school/jr. high, I plan on sending them to a private school because the middle and high schools we're zoned for suck donkey balls. Too much violence, substandard test scores, expectations that are too low, and the list goes on.

I will send my kids where I think they'll get the best education and hopefully can also be in an environment where a Biblical perspective can be brought to the curriculum as well. If I can get all that and some cultural diversity too, even better.

[otterinbham 0]

Well, you all are really dancing around the central issue of education today.

Whether it's private or public, the model is very outdated. It's both an age decentralization and of ubiquitous knowledge, where four words typed in a search engine will get you everything on a particular subject.

Yet, schools today are the least imaginative and least creative enterprises in American society today. They're organized along the lines of an 18th Century textile mill and do nothing well. It's a system (note the word "system" by the way, which connotes inflexibility and an insistence on dogma) where bright kids and dumb kids, motivated kids and lazy kids, all learn exactly the same material at exactly the same pace. It's a guarantor of mediocrity.

Instead, rather than all kids marching in lockstep through the twelve years of basic school, why not have kids move through school faster or slower based on their own diligence and ability to master the material? That way, a 10-year-old who reads at a 10th grade level isn't reading rudimental stuff. And a 15-year-old who is not going to college can learn something more useful to him.

Hard to transform the educational culture, yes. But, from the technical standpoint, I just can't imagine that it would be that difficult to design a better way.

[CCTAU 3,327]

Yet, schools today are the least imaginative and least creative enterprises in American society today. They're organized along the lines of an 18th Century textile mill and do nothing well. It's a system (note the word "system" by the way, which connotes inflexibility and an insistence on dogma) where bright kids and dumb kids, motivated kids and lazy kids, all learn exactly the same material at exactly the same pace. It's a guarantor of mediocrity.

Thank your local teacher's union.

[otterinbham 0]

Yet, schools today are the least imaginative and least creative enterprises in American society today. They're organized along the lines of an 18th Century textile mill and do nothing well. It's a system (note the word "system" by the way, which connotes inflexibility and an insistence on dogma) where bright kids and dumb kids, motivated kids and lazy kids, all learn exactly the same material at exactly the same pace. It's a guarantor of mediocrity.

Thank your local teacher's union.

Actually, thank everybody.

Educators for continuing to defend this Rube Goldberg system.

Politicians for not having the political courage or will to really transform the system.

And, most of all, the parents for blithely dropping their children at the curb every morning at 7:55 a.m., and believing that their responsibility ends there.

[CCTAU 3,327]

Yet, schools today are the least imaginative and least creative enterprises in American society today. They're organized along the lines of an 18th Century textile mill and do nothing well. It's a system (note the word "system" by the way, which connotes inflexibility and an insistence on dogma) where bright kids and dumb kids, motivated kids and lazy kids, all learn exactly the same material at exactly the same pace. It's a guarantor of mediocrity.

Thank your local teacher's union.

Actually, thank everybody.

Educators for continuing to defend this Rube Goldberg system.

Politicians for not having the political courage or will to really transform the system.

And, most of all, the parents for blithely dropping their children at the curb every morning at 7:55 a.m., and believing that their responsibility ends there.

That's not always true. We have one of he best elementary schools in GA in my neighborhood. More parents are at that school every day than I can even count. The test scores are through the roof. Unfortunately, the next school up seems to have an issue with too many parents at the school. Therefore more issues arise than should be. If the school system as a whole encouraged maximum parental involvement and actually let them do it, the other schools would excel also. So as your child gets older, the administration does not want you to see the crap they are poking down your child's head. So they keep parents out. That's why several GOOD private schools have popped up. The higher up you go, the more you figure out that the people running these schools are not any brighter than you are. It sure as hell takes twice as many of them to do the same type of administrative jobs that are handled every day in the real world. Much money is lost and wasted by public school systems. Most private school systems do a much better job with the administrative duties. And why shouldn't I be able to get a voucher for the same amount that is wasted on my child each year. The money is still going to educate a child. It's just being used more efficiently. Have you seen the cost of educating one child in the public school system as opposed to private? It's ridiculous that the Atlanta school system spends about 12,000 a year per child and cannot get the test scores up. And you are telling me that I couldn't get a better private school education for 12,000 dollars?

Study

[otterinbham 0]

Yet, schools today are the least imaginative and least creative enterprises in American society today. They're organized along the lines of an 18th Century textile mill and do nothing well. It's a system (note the word "system" by the way, which connotes inflexibility and an insistence on dogma) where bright kids and dumb kids, motivated kids and lazy kids, all learn exactly the same material at exactly the same pace. It's a guarantor of mediocrity.

Thank your local teacher's union.

Actually, thank everybody.

Educators for continuing to defend this Rube Goldberg system.

Politicians for not having the political courage or will to really transform the system.

And, most of all, the parents for blithely dropping their children at the curb every morning at 7:55 a.m., and believing that their responsibility ends there.

That's not always true. We have one of he best elementary schools in GA in my neighborhood. More parents are at that school every day than I can even count. The test scores are through the roof. Unfortunately, the next school up seems to have an issue with too many parents at the school. Therefore more issues arise than should be. If the school system as a whole encouraged maximum parental involvement and actually let them do it, the other schools would excel also. So as your child gets older, the administration does not want you to see the crap they are poking down your child's head. So they keep parents out. That's why several GOOD private schools have popped up. The higher up you go, the more you figure out that the people running these schools are not any brighter than you are. It sure as hell takes twice as many of them to do the same type of administrative jobs that are handled every day in the real world. Much money is lost and wasted by public school systems. Most private school systems do a much better job with the administrative duties. And why shouldn't I be able to get a voucher for the same amount that is wasted on my child each year. The money is still going to educate a child. It's just being used more efficiently. Have you seen the cost of educating one child in the public school system as opposed to private? It's ridiculous that the Atlanta school system spends about 12,000 a year per child and cannot get the test scores up. And you are telling me that I couldn't get a better private school education for 12,000 dollars?

Study

I actually agree with you on that when it comes to parental involvement. However, while I would argue that private schools are better than public schools, it's not by much unless you're sending your kids to a super prep academy such as Exeter. What's more, I think kids in private schools fare better chiefly because they come from households that sacrifice for education. The mentality is already there before the students take the first class. And, if you're a parent who shells out $14,000 a year for a private school, you are typically standing over that child with a bullwhip to make certain that his homework is getting done. Nevertheless, both private and public schools attend to a centralized model that's grossly inefficient.

Now, to me, that Atlanta number is proof that the model simply doesn't work any more. Think about it. At $12,000 a student, you could pay a teacher for every five kids. The teacher could practially drive from house to house or the community center, and give each kid two-hours of individualized instruction a day. I realize that's a gross simplification, however it really effectively illustrates how little public school money actually goes to the people who do the educating.

20-25 kids is an average class size. In Atlanta, that's $240,000-$300,000 of public money being spent. I defy anybody to sit back and pronounce that a lack of public funding is the problem.

[WinCrimson 61]

The quality of public schools vary from system to system.

I know that my high school, Andalusia, has had the highest test scores south of Birmingham for the past couple of years. Yet, 30 minutes down the road in Evergreen, the school system is a complete mess.

I wouldn't label all public schools as "day cares", but I wouldn't pimp all of them to be something they're not, either.

[AUslug 1]

It is your choice as a parent where you want your child educated and I have no problem with either choice. It just irritates me when people call teachers "glorified babysitters", that is insulting to a profession that gets no respect or even a thank you once in a while. My mother is going into her 30th year of teaching and she has a masters, yup that is a babysitter if I ever saw one. The educational system is nothing but one big game of pass the buck starting with the parents.

[otterinbham 0]

It is your choice as a parent where you want your child educated and I have no problem with either choice. It just irritates me when people call teachers "glorified babysitters", that is insulting to a profession that gets no respect or even a thank you once in a while. My mother is going into her 30th year of teaching and she has a masters, yup that is a babysitter if I ever saw one. The educational system is nothing but one big game of pass the buck starting with the parents.

Actually, I think teachers are heroic people. But "babysitting" isn't really referring to them. It's referring to a system that is more occupying the kid's day with busywork than actually giving the child knowledge. I've know teachers who entered the workforce idealistically, and have become burned out by the strange politics, the utter defiance of reason, and the certainty that they're working with an educational model that guarantees mediocrity.