K-State even gets jab in on UAT

[JohnDeere 0]

Profound insight from the K-State Collegian:

Collegian

SEC values focused on money

By: Ryne Witt

Issue date: 8/30/07 Section: Sports

The Southeastern Conference is the premier football conference in America, and K-State players and fans will witness its glory on Saturday.

The SEC has owned the college football attendance crown for 26 years. Football is a way of life for SEC fans. Yes, that sounds cliché, but they wear their Sunday best to football games.

Auburn, for example, has some of the nation's best traditions, like an eagle flying in before every game and the Tiger Walk (like the Wildcat Walk, but multiplied by 100).

Why am I not impressed?

Yes, the eagle thing will be cool and the stadium loud, but beneath the tradition of SEC football lies a tremendous pressure to win at any cost. The SEC has had at least one team on probation since 1985.

Auburn has been on probation five times in its history. The tradition, to me, is to forget morals, just win and wear your best clothes doing it.

To an outsider, the pressure that goes along with winning and tradition in SEC is out of control. I am not saying there is no pressure in the Big 12 Conference, but it doesn't compare to the pressure schools like Florida, Auburn and Alabama face.

Alabama is a prime example of how that pressure can tempt a school to bend the rules. The last time the Crimson Tide won a national championship was 1992 under Gene Stallings. Since Stallings left in 1996, the Crimson Tide has gone through four head coaches and spent time on NCAA probation. Alabama also finished 6-7 last year.

Alabama still is classified as a big-time football program because of the money it spends to keep the program successful. They pay Nick Saban $4 million a year to be its head football coach - the biggest deal in college football history.

The lowest-paid SEC coach is Mississippi's Ed Orgeron, who makes $905,000.

Ron Prince earns a base salary of $750,000 a year, though K-State has seen more success in the last 10 years than Alabama or Ole Miss.

Money, cheating and tradition is what the SEC seems to be all about.

But they win. The SEC has the reigning national champion Florida and six of its 12 teams opening the season in the Associated Press Top-25 poll.

Is the cost of winning really worth it? I don't think so.

But football isn't a game anymore. At least in the SEC, it has turned into a business.

Ryne Witt is a senior in print journalism. Please send comments to sports@spub.ksu.edu.

[BamaGrad03 0]

That's the dumbest thing I've ever read. Prince coached at Alabama A&M, South Carolina St, and James Madison...before being the O Cord for Virginia. Prince has 1 freaking year of head coaching experience.

In the last 10 years, Alabama has 1 SEC title, 3 10 win seasons, and 6 bowl appearances.

So remind me, how has he had "more success" than Bama or Ole Miss? Was it while being the S&C coach at A&M? Or maybe his tenure at James Madison? He was the O Cord at UVA for 3 years. While at UVA, the best finish they had was an 8 wins season.

Why should he make more money than Orgeron? They both came from schools where they were assistants. The difference being, Ed came from a national championship program.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

I hate to break it to them, but one of the reasons their coach only makes $750k compared to the millions that Saban, Tuberville, Spurrier and others make is because for all their success, their stadium only seats a little over 53,000. Only one team in the SEC has a stadium smaller than that: Vanderbilt. Even lowly Mississippi State and Ole Miss have stadiums bigger than KState. Two thirds of the conference has stadiums that seat 80,000 or more. When you have anywhere from 30 to 55k more butts in seats and buying concessions on gameday, you generate more money to pay for coaches.

And I believe that something like 6 SEC teams placed in the top 20 in merchandise sales for college teams this past year. Kansas State, IIRC, didn't sniff the top 20.

The truth is, KState doesn't emphasize athletics less than SEC schools or pay their coaches less out of some out of some moral principle they are following. They do so because they have no choice in the matter. They do so because not enough people, even in Kansas, give a s**t about KState. So spare me the highbrow sermonizing and grandstanding.

[JohnDeere 0]

That's the dumbest thing I've ever read. Prince coached at Alabama A&M, South Carolina St, and James Madison...before being the O Cord for Virginia. Prince has 1 freaking year of head coaching experience.

In the last 10 years, Alabama has 1 SEC title, 3 10 win seasons, and 6 bowl appearances.

So remind me, how has he had "more success" than Bama or Ole Miss? Was it while being the S&C coach at A&M? Or maybe his tenure at James Madison? He was the O Cord at UVA for 3 years. While at UVA, the best finish they had was an 8 wins season.

Why should he make more money than Orgeron? They both came from schools where they were assistants. The difference being, Ed came from a national championship program.

In the past 10 years (starting with the 1996 season), K-State has 6 10 win season, and 9 bowl appearances, 1 Big 12 Title.

Kansas State won 11 games every year from 1997-2003 and is one of just two programs in the nation to record six 11-win seasons in a seven-year stretch.

If any School or University was looking for best head coach to carry on the CURRENT tradition of winning, it was K-State not Bama.

[CircleDrill 178]

Prince earns a base salary of $750,000 a year, though K-State has seen more success in the last 10 years than and Alabama or = Ole Miss.

I agree this is dumb. Almost like they know they are going to lose, so they say well, we are going to make their victory look bad.

I fixed the typo in the article above too.

[BamaGrad03 0]

In the past 10 years (starting with the 1996 season), K-State has 6 10 win season, and 9 bowl appearances, 1 Big 12 Title.

Kansas State won 11 games every year from 1997-2003 and is one of just two programs in the nation to record six 11-win seasons in a seven-year stretch.

If any School or University was looking for best head coach to carry on the CURRENT tradition of winning, it was K-State not Bama.

I may put some weight to that if K State wasn't a running joke in college football for padding their schedules with high school teams.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

In the last 10 years, Alabama has 1 SEC title, 3 10 win seasons, and 6 bowl appearances.

So remind me, how has he had "more success" than Bama or Ole Miss? Was it while being the S&C coach at A&M? Or maybe his tenure at James Madison? He was the O Cord at UVA for 3 years. While at UVA, the best finish they had was an 8 wins season.

He's got you on that one. He was saying KState has been more successful, not that Ron Prince has been. And on that point he's right. The last ten years, KState has gone 88-38 vs 67-55 for Bama. They have one Big XII championship, 3 North Division titles, six 11 win seasons and 8 bowl appearances. So I think his argument is that Prince should be making more money or at least something closer than what Bama pays their guy because of recent history.

His problem is that he doesn't get what factors into a coach getting that kind of salary. A big component of it is what the respective athletic program generates.

[JohnDeere 0]

In the past 10 years (starting with the 1996 season), K-State has 6 10 win season, and 9 bowl appearances, 1 Big 12 Title.

Kansas State won 11 games every year from 1997-2003 and is one of just two programs in the nation to record six 11-win seasons in a seven-year stretch.

If any School or University was looking for best head coach to carry on the CURRENT tradition of winning, it was K-State not Bama.

I may put some weight to that if K State wasn't a running joke in college football for padding their schedules with high school teams.

Typical UATer response.

Hhmm....I guess them laying the wood to Texas last year was a fluke. Kinda of like Mississippi State laying the beat down on Bama last year.

[JohnDeere 0]

In the last 10 years, Alabama has 1 SEC title, 3 10 win seasons, and 6 bowl appearances.

So remind me, how has he had "more success" than Bama or Ole Miss? Was it while being the S&C coach at A&M? Or maybe his tenure at James Madison? He was the O Cord at UVA for 3 years. While at UVA, the best finish they had was an 8 wins season.

He's got you on that one. He was saying KState has been more successful, not that Ron Prince has been. And on that point he's right. The last ten years, KState has gone 88-38 vs 67-55 for Bama. They have one Big XII championship, 3 North Division titles, six 11 win seasons and 8 bowl appearances. So I think his argument is that Prince should be making more money or at least something closer than what Bama pays their guy because of recent history.

His problem is that he doesn't get what factors into a coach getting that kind of salary. A big component of it is what the respective athletic program generates.

I guess if K-State had the corrupt BOT and 'rogue' boosters that UAT had, they could afford to hire a mercenary head coach and 'buy' a few players.

[BamaGrad03 0]

In 97 K State beat 1 team in the top 25 (14th ranked A&M) OOC schedule was Bowling Green, Ohio, and Northern Illinois

98 beat 3 teams in the top 25. 0 teams in the top 10. OOC schedule was Indiana St, La Monroe, NIU

99 Beat one team in top 25 (played only 1 team in top 25) OOC - Temple, UTEP, Utah St

2000 Beat one team in top 25. OOC Ball St, North Texas, La Tech

2001 Went 6-6 Beat 0 ranked teams.

2002 Beat 2 Top 25 teams. OOC USC, Western Kentucky, La Monroe, Easter Illinois. When you go 11-2 and play in the Holiday Bowl...it says something.

Lost 4 games in their one championship season.

Last 3 years went 4-7, 5-6, 7-6

[BamaGrad03 0]

I guess if K-State had the corrupt BOT and 'rogue' boosters that UAT had, they could afford to hire a mercenary head coach and 'buy' a few players.

Why are you defending this guy? He just slammed the ENTIRE SEC. Are you so blinded by your Alabama hate, that you'd willingly accept a slam of your own conference (by proxy a slam on Auburn)...just because it also pokes at Bama?

That's weak dude.

Also, if you count 1996 for KSU, you have to count it for Alabama (another 10 win season, another bowl game, and another bowl win).

[JohnDeere 0]

In 97 K State beat 1 team in the top 25 (14th ranked A&M) OOC schedule was Bowling Green, Ohio, and Northern Illinois

98 beat 3 teams in the top 25. 0 teams in the top 10. OOC schedule was Indiana St, La Monroe, NIU

99 Beat one team in top 25 (played only 1 team in top 25) OOC - Temple, UTEP, Utah St

2000 Beat one team in top 25. OOC Ball St, North Texas, La Tech

2001 Went 6-6 Beat 0 ranked teams.

2002 Beat 2 Top 25 teams. OOC USC, Western Kentucky, La Monroe, Easter Illinois. When you go 11-2 and play in the Holiday Bowl...it says something.

Lost 4 games in their one championship season.

Last 3 years went 4-7, 5-6, 7-6

Here we go again.....

Trying to poke holes in another teams record does not make your team's record look better.

I have neither the time nor desire to critize Bama's weak OOC schedule. The only Bama OOC games that comes to mind is NIU and UCF. Then there is the FIU and Duke performances last season, throw those out and UAT finishes the season 4-7.

BTW...K-State finished with a winning record last year and UAT didn't.

[CircleDrill 178]

Why so defensive?? Geez...

So, when UNA (North Alabama) won three national championships in a row in 1993, 94, 95, did Bobby Wallace deserve to be the highest paid coach in the country in 1996???

You guys are trying to rank the market value of a program solely on wins/losses, and the issue is more complex than that. A program generates more money when it is winning, yes. But there are also a LOT of other things that cause a program to generate money: selling tickets, facilities, tradition, location, marketing, merchandise, etc.

The school that does ALL of these the best will generate the most money and therefore pay the most money to its staff. If you want to make a huge salary, you look for a job where they pay the most. If you want to win ball games, you look for a job where you think you can win ball games. If you want to win some games and make some good money, you look for a job where you can do that. If you want to be able to pay bills and stay within 100 miles of your momma, then you do that.

My guess is Ron Prince is coaching at KState because that was a step up from his previous position, not because he wants to be a billionaire.

There is no moral principle as this writer is trying to make it out.

[BamaGrad03 0]

NIU went 10-2 when we played them.

Other OOC opponents in the same 10 year span:

UCLA

UCLA

Oklahoma

Oklahoma

Hawaii x 3 (2 of those years they won 10+ games)

Southern Miss

NC State

BYU

[DCWarEagle 0]

Let's stay on point in this thread. Kansas State sucks. If we want to talk about Bama sucking, there are always lots of threads on that.

Anyway, here's a partial response to the "dirty" allegations from K-State:

https://goomer.ncaa.org/wdbctx/LSDBi/LSDBi....utton=Go+Search

Not sure if that link will work, but bottom line is six infractions for Kansas State. Now I know that doesn't excuse past Auburn transgressions, but those in glass houses shouldn't be chucking rocks.

[BamaGrad03 0]

Why so defensive?? Geez...

So, when UNA (North Alabama) won three national championships in a row in 1993, 94, 95, did Bobby Wallace deserve to be the highest paid coach in the country in 1996???

You guys are trying to rank the market value of a program solely on wins/losses, and the issue is more complex than that. A program generates more money when it is winning, yes. But there are also a LOT of other things that cause a program to generate money: selling tickets, facilities, tradition, location, marketing, merchandise, etc.

The school that does ALL of these the best will generate the most money and therefore pay the most money to its staff. If you want to make a huge salary, you look for a job where they pay the most. If you want to win ball games, you look for a job where you think you can win ball games. If you want to win some games and make some good money, you look for a job where you can do that.

Thank you.

[JohnDeere 0]

Also, if you count 1996 for KSU, you have to count it for Alabama (another 10 win season, another bowl game, and another bowl win).

Ok, count 96, UAT still doesn't have as many 10 wins seasons or bowl game appearances. What's your point?

Yeah, he is poking fun at the SEC, but have you ever been to Big 12 home game. I have been to a few, Columbia, College Station, and Boulder, they don't pull in the crowds that we see in the SEC. From my personal observations, people out 'west' have no desire to 'pull for' or 'cheer for' a school they did not attend and/or graduate from. With that, they have less of a fan base to pull in donations and ticket sales.

Thats the big difference, in say, Arkansas and MIZZOU, not every backwoods redneck in Missouri associates his happiness and well-being with the state's largest university's football team.