Just to address the "Hoover pipeline" myth

[BamaGrad03 0]

Since 2002 here's Bama's Hoover commits:

Curtis Dawson - Kicked off team (3 star)

Jerami Holifield - never made it in (known he wouldn't qualify at time of commitment) (3 star)

JPW (3 star)

Corey Reamer (3 star)

Josh Chapman (3 star)

Patrick Crump (3 star)

Kerry Murphy (4 star)

Six years worth of recruiting classes. We signed 7 guys. Murphy, Crump, JPW, Reamer all grew up Bama fans and were going regardless. Only one was a 4 star. Dawson, Reamer, Holifield wouldn't have received offers if they were coming out this year.

We got one big time recruit out of Hoover...Kerry Murphy. JPW turned out good as well, but wasn't "big time" coming out.

By comparison, we will sign a MINIMUM of 4 guys between this year and next from St Paul's in Mobile. Possibly 5.

[bigsixfive 328]

How many Hoover players went on to play college ball?

[BamaGrad03 0]

How many Hoover players went on to play college ball?

Lord, I have no idea. I know UAB got a few, Troy got a couple. Auburn got Ryan Pugh. Chad Jackson went to UF.

[WarTim 3,457]

Hoover "myth"? If it makes you feel better, bg, go ahead and make the attempt 'til your little dark pink heart is content. No takers here though.

p.s. "ding-ding"

[InDNo 0]

Let's say we grant your point, BG. Still, to me, this response skirts what I think is the most appropriate question. Again, to me, it's not how many Hoover kids went to uat, but, instead, what tracks were greased to get the kids that did go to 'bama qualified to attend Tuscaloser.

That's just my view.

InDNo

[BamaGrad03 0]

Let's say we grant your point, BG. Still, to me, this response skirts what I think is the most appropriate question. Again, to me, it's not how many Hoover kids went to uat, but, instead, what tracks were greased to get the kids that did go to 'bama qualified to attend Tuscaloser.

That's just my view.

InDNo

Well, out of the 7 guys we signed, two never made it on campus. JPW, Corey Reamer and Patrick Crump all had excellent grades.

So that only leaves Dawson and Chapman.

[InDNo 0]

Let's say we grant your point, BG. Still, to me, this response skirts what I think is the most appropriate question. Again, to me, it's not how many Hoover kids went to uat, but, instead, what tracks were greased to get the kids that did go to 'bama qualified to attend Tuscaloser.

That's just my view.

InDNo

Well, out of the 7 guys we signed, two never made it on campus. JPW, Corey Reamer and Patrick Crump all had excellent grades.

So that only leaves Dawson and Chapman.

So that's two, which is, what, two over the NCAA limit, right?

InDNo

[BamaGrad03 0]

Let's say we grant your point, BG. Still, to me, this response skirts what I think is the most appropriate question. Again, to me, it's not how many Hoover kids went to uat, but, instead, what tracks were greased to get the kids that did go to 'bama qualified to attend Tuscaloser.

That's just my view.

InDNo

Well, out of the 7 guys we signed, two never made it on campus. JPW, Corey Reamer and Patrick Crump all had excellent grades.

So that only leaves Dawson and Chapman.

So that's two, which is, what, two over the NCAA limit, right?

InDNo

Um...yeah, kind of backfired on you didn't it?

[InDNo 0]

Let's say we grant your point, BG. Still, to me, this response skirts what I think is the most appropriate question. Again, to me, it's not how many Hoover kids went to uat, but, instead, what tracks were greased to get the kids that did go to 'bama qualified to attend Tuscaloser.

That's just my view.

InDNo

Well, out of the 7 guys we signed, two never made it on campus. JPW, Corey Reamer and Patrick Crump all had excellent grades.

So that only leaves Dawson and Chapman.

So that's two, which is, what, two over the NCAA limit, right?

InDNo

Um...yeah, kind of backfired on you didn't it?

Um ... I sorta see it the other way around. I think I said right off that numbers had nothing to do with it (others, not me, used the word "pipeline"; read above). You admit (or at least intimate admittance) to two cases. Which, as I said, is two more than the NCAA allows.

Dude, who walked into whose trap?

Of course, all of the above is reason, to which you uaters seem to be averse.

InDNo

[CircleDrill 178]

I take full responsibility for the term "Hoover Pipeline" because that's exactly what it is. An all-expense paid trip from Hoover to T-Town for player that Alabama wants from Hoover.

Indno is right. It's not about numbers. It's about making sure that a kid is properly set up and nothing in the system will impede his progress to T-Town.

I'm sure all those players did have fine grades. If they didn't, all it takes is a call from Kevin Steele, as we have so recently seen, to get things back on track.

[InDNo 0]

I take full responsibility for the term "Hoover Pipeline" because that's exactly what it is. An all-expense paid trip from Hoover to T-Town for player that Alabama wants from Hoover.

Indno is right. It's not about numbers. It's about making sure that a kid is properly set up and nothing in the system will impede his progress to T-Town.

I'm sure all those players did have fine grades. If they didn't, all it takes is a call from Kevin Steele, as we have so recently seen, to get things back on track.

"Pipeline" indicates oil, through which things slide easily, so, Circle Drill, despite the numbers, I think you're term can be construed as correct.

I harken back to a Saban quote that was in a response to a question about Kevin Steele's call to Terri Borie. Since everyone here is anal about links, first I'll cite the quote, then a link. Here ya go:

"As a policy, we try to have our compliance people handle and manage all academic eligibility situations and circumstances with the (NCAA) Clearinghouse," Saban said. "I think there are always times, whether it's through conversations with coaches or trying to make sure things get done, sometimes assistant coaches' names can come up in the circumstance."

Linky dink: http://www.al.com/printer/printer.ssf?/bas....xml&coll=2

Now, I think the key phrase here is "trying to make sure things get done."

Do we really have to wonder about what Steele's trying to get done?

BG, be real! That's dead red sh**, right there!

InDNo

[BamaGrad03 0]

So without any proof, you guys automatically lump Dawson in as someone who was cheated for? Please.

Your hands must be full of straws. You are grasping.

[InDNo 0]

So without any proof, you guys automatically lump Dawson in as someone who was cheated for? Please.

Your hands must be full of straws. You are grasping.

I don't believe anyone ever said Dawson "was cheated for." But you continue to incriminate uat's dealings with Chapman because you have yet to defend them. Again, the NCAA limit is zero. Chapman = one. That is exactly one above the limit, as was ALBERT MEANS.

And, by the by, you completely ignored the above quote by your freaking HEAD COACH! You know, the guy all the t-shirts, stickers, pins, etc, ad nauseum, celebrate as the greatest freaking human being that ever lived.

"Trying to make sure things get done."

I mean, is that an incriminating quote or what?

You tell me, O great one.

InDNo

[BamaGrad03 0]

I don't believe anyone ever said Dawson "was cheated for." But you continue to incriminate uat's dealings with Chapman because you have yet to defend them. Again, the NCAA limit is zero. Chapman = one. That is exactly one above the limit, as was ALBERT MEANS.

There's an 8 page thread about the Chapman situation. And a 68 page report.

When the NCAA puts us on probation for it, then you can cite it as "1"

Until then, find another leg to stand on.

[DKW 86 7,439]

Since 2002 here's Bama's Hoover commits:

Curtis Dawson - Kicked off team (3 star)

Jerami Holifield - never made it in (known he wouldn't qualify at time of commitment) (3 star)

JPW (3 star)

Corey Reamer (3 star)

Josh Chapman (3 star)

Patrick Crump (3 star)

Kerry Murphy (4 star)

Six years worth of recruiting classes. We signed 7 guys. Murphy, Crump, JPW, Reamer all grew up Bama fans and were going regardless.

Whatever makes you sleep at night. How many kids 'Grow up ______ fans and end up at _______'s Rival?'

All the Britts, fans that went to

Brandon Cox fan that went to

DeMeco Ryans fan that went to

and on and on....

BG, the very idea you used that poor logic indicates that you either do not keep up with recruiting or you are pro-actively over looking obvious errors in your thesis. Kids go where they can play, or to the school that wants them, or where they like the staff, or where their friends go. etc...

Sometimes they go where their HS Coach tells them to go. Just go ask Albert Means, or Josh Chapman.

[80Tiger 899]

Since 2002 here's Bama's Hoover commits:

Curtis Dawson - Kicked off team (3 star)

Jerami Holifield - never made it in (known he wouldn't qualify at time of commitment) (3 star)

JPW (3 star)

Corey Reamer (3 star)

Josh Chapman (3 star)

Patrick Crump (3 star)

Kerry Murphy (4 star)

Six years worth of recruiting classes. We signed 7 guys. Murphy, Crump, JPW, Reamer all grew up Bama fans and were going regardless. Only one was a 4 star. Dawson, Reamer, Holifield wouldn't have received offers if they were coming out this year.

We got one big time recruit out of Hoover...Kerry Murphy. JPW turned out good as well, but wasn't "big time" coming out.

By comparison, we will sign a MINIMUM of 4 guys between this year and next from St Paul's in Mobile. Possibly 5.

I will agree with BG to some degree. I do not believe it is a "pipeline" per say. Over the years we have gotten kids from Hoover (Berry). And I know recently it has not been many except Pugh. He is correct in that most of the kids they signed we did not offer. On his list Chapman and Murphy are the only ones probably. Now to refute a couple of things, Holifield was a pretty good prospect, but his grades were always and issue. I don't know how much they affected his recruiting. Reamer was an AU fan his whole life but AU did not offer and was never going to offer. The otherw we never offered and had no plans to offer.

As far as future prospects, there are not a lot of D1 players on that team right now including underclassman. They have some very good players but I do not know if they are SEC caliber. They do have one O line that has SEC size and seems to be a good player but I do not know about footwork. All the skill guys are extremely fast but no real size. So they have the makings of a very good HS team.

Hoover the city has a very good contingent of AU and UAT fans and alumni so I don't think it is "controlled" one way or the other. Just to let you know, lived there 20 years and had kids involved with athletics from litltle league to high school, so this is not a link, just first hand knowledge.

[abrnfanatc 6]

Just curious, how many kids did Alabama sign from the Memphis HS that Means attended?

How much playing time did Means see?

TIA

[BamaGrad03 0]

Whatever makes you sleep at night. How many kids 'Grow up ______ fans and end up at _______'s Rival?'

All the Britts, fans that went to

Brandon Cox fan that went to

DeMeco Ryans fan that went to

and on and on....

BG, the very idea you used that poor logic indicates that you either do not keep up with recruiting or you are pro-actively over looking obvious errors in your thesis. Kids go where they can play, or to the school that wants them, or where they like the staff, or where their friends go. etc...

Sometimes they go where their HS Coach tells them to go. Just go ask Albert Means, or Josh Chapman.

Dude, you're crazy. The Britts were not Auburn fans.

Brandon Cox was not offered by Alabama. We offered Brandon Avalos instead

Demeco Ryans was not offered by Auburn.

Nice try.

[mcgufcm 4,107]

bg, i think i'd disagree with you on what constitutes a "pipeline" in college football. first off, i don't associate the term with an implication of cheating. generally, i think it's a sign that you got to know a coach or you did right by one of his guys or you have a bond built on former players that current ones still admire, etc. generally, it's not cheating. it's networking. it's brilliant recruiting.

i disagree with your assertion that 7 guys in 5 years or whatever is insufficient. that might be exactly the right sign. for example, i would unblinkingly say that dillard high is an auburn pipeline. HOWEVER, the number of guys we get from there isn't all that high. off the top of my head, antoine carter, pat sims, junior rosegreen, stanley mcclover, and this year: harry adams are the only guys that have signed with tubby from dillard. so that's 8 years and 5 guys. but when i see dillard listed by a recruit's name, i am 90% sure we'll land him. why? pipeline. established by pat day when he took otis mounds after everyone turned their back on him. then the dillard four came, and the pipeline still flows.

the question to me is: when there is a big name recruit from that school do you feel like your start even on the kid or ahead of the game? at dillard, we're ahead of the game. in hoover, you're ahead of the game. those are pipelines.

i don't really care what happened there. it felt dirty when chapman backed out of his commitment. it feels dirtier to hear all the stuff that's been said about how he qualified. BUT we'll know something really happened if bama is even slapped on the wrist. if not, it was just shady. if so, it was cheating. either way, that doesn't change the fact that any school not named bama is playing catchup on any big recruit at hoover high. it's a pipeline.

[BamaGrad03 0]

I don't think cheating has anything to do with the concept of a pipeline.

Like you, I think it's a numbers game. But I don't think you can consider Hoover a pipeline when a couple of guys went to Bama because we were the only major school that offered. A few went to Bama because they grew up Bama fans.

The difference between Hoover and Dillard...Hoover is a state school. Whether it's a "pipeline" or not, it makes sense to assume many grew up Bama fans. And as noted earlier, Hoover's biggest recruit in the last 10 years didn't even go to Bama. How many kids who go to Dillard grow up Auburn fans?

Getting, on average, just over one player a year from the biggest school in the state...it's not out of the ordinary. And it doesn't constitute a pipeline to me.

[autigeremt 6,661]

Who cares what happens to Bama in this case???!!! Hoover has set precedence with what has gone wrong with High School Sports..football in general!

The Bear, in all his wisdom (and he deserves credit for being able to manipulate the system that was) helped bring about NCAA recruiting rules by doing the things he did, albeit legal at the time.

Hoovers demise should bring about sweeping change within the high school ranks. No one should be able to get away with moving kids into their school so they can win ballgames. It's no different than colleges with moving parents into fine homes, giving them jobs through boosters,ect.ect.ect.

I hope that the Alabama High School league, along with the school boards, are able to create rules and regulations with fines and penalties like the NCAA uses to curtail this crap. It's got to stop!

[JohnDeere 0]

I don't think cheating has anything to do with the concept of a pipeline.

Getting, on average, just over one player a year from the biggest school in the state...it's not out of the ordinary. And it doesn't constitute a pipeline to me.

Name ONE other high school in the state that has produced a D1 signee in each of the past eight, seven, or six years?

[mcgufcm 4,107]

ignoring the whole "if it's a school in alabama, they probably grew up bama fans" silliness. the important point is looking at the high school in regards to the major colleges competing for its kids.

at dillard, that would be auburn, miami, and possibly florida. those are the big three recruiting that school. auburn pulls more kids than any of the other two.

at hoover, it's alabama and auburn. what's happened there? alabama has signed 7 guys in 6 years. auburn has signed one. you're telling me that all happened because auburn didn't offer the guys? you really think kerry murphey felt unwanted? or josh chapman? please. and in recruiting, i'm with david; family history seems to have very little to do with it. for every eddins, there are two david greens (auburn fan, recruited by both schools, went to uga). so the whole "he was a bama fan" thing doesn't hold a bucket of water. it's a bigger deal that his buddies went to bama, his coach pushes bama, and his friends are thinking about going. the 6/1 discrepancy kinda shuts the door on this conversation to me.

in the end, lemme ask you a serious question. a recruit says he's down to auburn and alabama. you look online and see that he's a hoover guy. do you still feel like he's 50/50 or do you think (and we're talking subjectively and honestly) "we got him"? i know what i'd think.

[ssgaufan 0]

Who cares what happens to Bama in this case???!!! Hoover has set precedence with what has gone wrong with High School Sports..football in general!

The Bear, in all his wisdom (and he deserves credit for being able to manipulate the system that was) helped bring about NCAA recruiting rules by doing the things he did, albeit legal at the time.

Hoovers demise should bring about sweeping change within the high school ranks. No one should be able to get away with moving kids into their school so they can win ballgames. It's no different than colleges with moving parents into fine homes, giving them jobs through boosters,ect.ect.ect.

I hope that the Alabama High School league, along with the school boards, are able to create rules and regulations with fines and penalties like the NCAA uses to curtail this crap. It's got to stop!

EXACTLY! I am tired of seeing the city school where I live getting the talent from the county schools. I know it's not as big as the Hoover deal, but the whole county suffers through sub 500 seasons, while the city school makes the playoffs every year.

As a parent I understand the urge that a parent gets when their child is good enough to be looked at by D1 schools, but there's alot of shady, underhanded stuff going on with these arrangements, and I don't won't to raise my kids to think that it's ok to bend the rules to help you. You can make and send your own highlight video's to different schools, you don't have to sellout so a scout might come see you in person. JMHO

[BamaGrad03 0]

in the end, lemme ask you a serious question. a recruit says he's down to auburn and alabama. you look online and see that he's a hoover guy. do you still feel like he's 50/50 or do you think (and we're talking subjectively and honestly) "we got him"? i know what i'd think.

Honestly, I never thought of Hoover kids being a "lock" for Bama until you guys started saying it.

Josh Chapman grew up a UA fan, and switched as soon as we offered. Murphy never was interested in AU. But he did peek at Miami.

Of the 7 we got Holifield, Dawson, JPW, Reamer and Crump didn't even have offers from Auburn.

The only ones that did were Murphy and Chapman.