CCTAU 3,362 Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 It is our duty to vote. Just as its our duty to work. According to whom? The "render unto Caesar" argument doesn't cut it here. Taxes are a requirement. Voting is not. Or have I missed the mass arrests and fines from the last election? No one said it did. The bible says it is our duty as followers of christ to work . TO NOT VOTE IS TO SAY TO YOUR FELLOW MAN THAT HE IS NOT WORTH YOUR CONCERN.And from what I can tell, most of you seem to think that the welfare of your fellow man is high on the list. Actually, I would argue that the two aren't linked. Again, could you not vote yet be even more integrally involved in your fellow man's life and concerns? Why is government the only or even the primary way to do this in your mind? The results of all election affect you and your fellow man. If you care, vote. If you only care for yourself, then don't vote. Just don't claim to care, and then not vote. They are not mutually exclusive. Hey, I did it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,572 Posted August 12, 2004 Author Share Posted August 12, 2004 It is our duty to vote. Just as its our duty to work. According to whom? The "render unto Caesar" argument doesn't cut it here. Taxes are a requirement. Voting is not. Or have I missed the mass arrests and fines from the last election? No one said it did. The bible says it is our duty as followers of christ to work. I'm still not following your train of thought here. You said it's our duty to vote. I'm asking "according to whom"? I'm not seeing this duty in Scripture anywhere. Actually, I would argue that the two aren't linked. Again, could you not vote yet be even more integrally involved in your fellow man's life and concerns? Why is government the only or even the primary way to do this in your mind? The results of all election affect you and your fellow man. If you care, vote. If you only care for yourself, then don't vote. Just don't claim to care, and then not vote. They are not mutually exclusive. You're still making them necessarily linked and haven't made that case. You say "they are not mutually exclusive", then you make a mutually exclusive statement (or in philosophical terms, a false dichotomy). There are a lot of things in society that I could choose to get involved in or not get involved in that affect me and my fellow man. I can't do them all and some I choose not to do because other priorities take precedence in my mind. I argue that you can care and not vote. I completely reject the premise that "caring" equals "voting". In fact, there are probably a hundred ways you can show your caring in a more effective way than casting a vote will ever do. But almost none of them are as quick and easy or require as little of you or your time as casting a vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCTAU 3,362 Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 I argue that you can care and not vote. I completely reject the premise that "caring" equals "voting". In fact, there are probably a hundred ways you can show your caring in a more effective way than casting a vote will ever do. But almost none of them are as quick and easy or require as little of you or your time as casting a vote. Ok. You are right. Let's agree that you won't vote. That way all of this is moot and we don't have to argue at all. Because he who does not vote must shut up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,572 Posted August 12, 2004 Author Share Posted August 12, 2004 I argue that you can care and not vote. I completely reject the premise that "caring" equals "voting". In fact, there are probably a hundred ways you can show your caring in a more effective way than casting a vote will ever do. But almost none of them are as quick and easy or require as little of you or your time as casting a vote. Ok. You are right. Let's agree that you won't vote. That way all of this is moot and we don't have to argue at all. Because he who does not vote must shut up! Equally untrue. While "obedient indifference" would probably result in a lot less arguing from the person who holds such beliefs, it doesn't mean they can't argue this particular subject: how the call to think biblically and follow Christ and so-called "obligations" to American democracy intersect...or if they have to intersect at all. And who said this was what I personally believed anyway? I'm just putting this out there for discussion. What I am questioning is the almost inextricable links some Christians make between being Christian and being American....between being Christian and being "patriotic"...between Christian and being "Republican". I'm questioning the mindset that equates "being involved" and "caring for your fellow man" with voting a certain way or voting at all. I'm questioning the mindset that sees Christian involvement in government as the primary way of effecting change in a society rather than the Church's involvement in the dirt and grime of everyday life on a larger and deeper scale than it has demonstrated thus far. Hand in hand with that is my own personal involvement in the messiness of others lives. My question is this: is there another (and better) way than the power we can wield in any particular political party or activity to further the cause of Christ in society? If so, how do our efforts in those areas compare to the devotion and energy we pour into the political realm? Is that a biblical way of thinking and living, or could God be calling us to a different, even radical approach? And if so, do we trust God's sovereignty enough to believe that if we aren't standing guard over the political process, that he'll take care of our so-called rights and our needs? Does God really need (or even want) our votes to do what He wants to do through us in the world? I'm in questioning mode, man. Don't get so bent out of shape and don't start making a bed for me in whatever philosophical box you're fashioning in your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,572 Posted August 13, 2004 Author Share Posted August 13, 2004 I'm still awaiting your input on this Tiger Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCTAU 3,362 Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 I'm in questioning mode, man. Don't get so bent out of shape and don't start making a bed for me in whatever philosophical box you're fashioning in your mind. Circles, man.... I think in circles....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDM4AU 336 Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 I have been thinking about this for a week, and I still don't know what the right answer is. I brought this up in my Bible Study on Wednesday and I visited a few websites that I sometimes go to when I have a questions. I don't have a definite answer. Part of me feels that maybe I shouldn't vote, that maybe God has all this planned and worked out to his specs. Another part of me feels that I should do my best on Earth to make sure our society is handled properly while not getting too absorbed in it. My first objective is to assure my family and me of life after this Earthly life by living according to God's word. That may overlap, but I am not knowledgable enough to know the definite truth. (Is God's word telling me not to vote because it interferes with his specs - that he has it all planned out already?) I vote mostly Republican because they usually take the same position I do on key issues. That doesn't mean that they always do just as I don't always vote republican, it's just that they usually do. Those issues are pro-life, lower taxes, strong national defense, the Church as our moral foundation and pro-family. I agree there should be a seperation of Church and state but not a seperation of God and state. These issues are not exclusive to the Republican party, just more prevalent there, IMO. Here is a link to an article I found regarding Christians voting: Should Christians Vote or Stay Home and Pray? No man is perfect therefore there will never be a perfect candidate. God knows this. That leads me to believe that voting my conscience is not going against God. One part in the article that really stuck out to me is, "Every true Christian is a citizen of two worlds, the world of time and the world of eternity. We are paradoxically in the world but must not surrender loyalty to every time bound idea. In God's time, He will put an end to sin. However, until then we have a duty as Christians to stand against any person or party that seeks to undermine the good of others and institutions. One of the ways that this can be accomplished is through voting." Here is another article I found that somewhat discusses the topic at hand: Should a Christian be a Republican or a Democrat? Don't worry, it doesn't tell us to be either or. But it does touch on this topic at hand. I don't have an answer for the "lesser of two evils" portion of this discussion. It is something I will just have to pray about and look for God to speak to my heart when November rolls around. Regardless, the following is something we all need to consider as things heat up (from the above link): "No matter who is in office, whether we voted for them or not, whether they are of the political party we prefer or not – the Bible commands us to respect and honor them (1Pet 2:13-17; Rom 13:1-7). We should also be praying for those placed in authority over us (Col 4:2; 1Thess 5:17). We do not have to agree with them, or even like them – we do have to honor and respect them." I will continue to ponder this for a while. Maybe something will come to light for me and I can contribute more to the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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