Kerry on Boorda and False Medals

[DKW 86 7,440]

Link

Kerry Spot    [ jim geraghty reporting ]

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KERRY ON BOORDA

The current dispute over Kerry’s medals is a good time to recall the tragic suicide of the Navy's Admiral Mike Boorda in 1996.

Kate O’Beirne summarized it well:

“In 1996, a left-wing news service raised questions about two small "V" clips that the chief of Naval operations wore over two of the medals on his chest full of them. The clips are awarded for valor under fire, and there was some doubt about whether Boorda's two tours in Vietnam aboard combat ships qualified him for the awards, although the Washington Post reported that a 1965 Navy manual appeared to support Boorda's right to wear the clips. Unlike Kerry, the awards did not provide grounds for Boorda to shorten his tours of duty.

Hours before he was scheduled to meet with Newsweek reporters to discuss the controversy, the admiral went to his home at the Navy Yard and shot himself in the chest. The CNO had been in command of the Navy during a troubled period and his leadership was being criticized by its senior officers. Still, among the notes he left was one to "the sailors" expressing his fear that the controversy over his decorations might harm the Navy. Boorda had lied about his age to join the Navy and was the first CNO to rise through the enlisted ranks.”

What did John Kerry have to say at the time about the matter? Let us consult the Boston Herald of May 18, 1996:

Veterans said yesterday that although they would take offense at someone falsely wearing a "V" combat pin, they couldn't see how this could drive Navy Adm. Jeremy Michael Boorda to suicide.

“Is it wrong? Yes, it is very wrong. Sufficient to question his leadership position? The answer is yes, which he clearly understood,” said Sen. John Kerry, a Navy combat veteran who served in Vietnam.

Citing uncertainty of whether Boorda deliberately wore the pins improperly, Kerry added: “If he made a mistake, in my judgment it wasn't worth his life, so I'm very sad about it.”

And let us consult the Boston Globe for the same day:

“The military is a rigorous culture that places a high premium on battlefield accomplishment,” said Sen. John F. Kerry, who received numerous decorations, including a Bronze Star with a "V" pin, as a Navy lieutenant in Vietnam.

“In a sense, there's nothing that says more about your career than when you fought, where you fought and how you fought,” Kerry said.

“If you wind up being less than what you’re pretending to be, there is a major confrontation with value and self-esteem and your sense of how others view you.”

Of Boorda and his apparent violation, Kerry said: “When you are the chief of them all, it has to weigh even more heavily.”

Kerry‘s records refer to a "Silver Star with combat V." The Chicago Sun-Times has reported a U.S. Navy spokesman said, "Kerry's record is incorrect. The Navy has never issued a 'combat V' to anyone for a Silver Star." Naval regulations do not allow for the use of a "combat V" for the Silver Star, the third-highest decoration the Navy awards. None of the other services has ever granted a Silver Star "combat V," either.

If John Kerry has been touting a “V” that the Navy says he does not deserve, these quotes are going to be flung back in his face.

UPDATE: A retired Navy veteran who reads the Kerry Spot observes, "The fact that "with Combat V" to the Silver Star Medal appears on his DD214 is an unnecessary embellishment. One I might add the member is responsible for. Every member discharged from the service is asked to review their DD214 for accuracy. It's your last chance to get the record straight."

So on the one hand, the "V" is deserved in the sense that Kerry demonstrated valor when he got the Silver Star. On the other hand, the Navy doesn't give out Silver Stars with Vs, because it would be redundant — it would be like an award for valor under fire, marked with an extra v to mark... even more valor under fire.

[Tiger Al 0]

David, can you tell me the significance of this?

[DKW 86 7,440]

Al, you are getting as bad as BF with the "Eyes Wide Shut" thing.

Kerry has a Combat V on one of his medals that the Navy says they have never issued to anyone, let alone John Kerry.

Adm Boorda evidently did the same thing and rather than be humiliated with the sham Medal, he committed Suicide.

“In 1996, a left-wing news service raised questions about two small "V" clips that the chief of Naval operations wore over two of the medals on his chest full of them. The clips are awarded for valor under fire, and there was some doubt about whether Boorda's two tours in Vietnam aboard combat ships qualified him for the awards, although the Washington Post reported that a 1965 Navy manual appeared to support Boorda's right to wear the clips. Unlike Kerry, the awards did not provide grounds for Boorda to shorten his tours of duty.

Hours before he was scheduled to meet with Newsweek reporters to discuss the controversy, the admiral went to his home at the Navy Yard and shot himself in the chest.

Kerry was throwing Boorda under the bus for it. He talked about how serious a charge it was and:

“The military is a rigorous culture that places a high premium on battlefield accomplishment,” said Sen. John F. Kerry, who received numerous decorations, including a Bronze Star with a "V" pin, as a Navy lieutenant in Vietnam.

“In a sense, there's nothing that says more about your career than when you fought, where you fought and how you fought,” Kerry said.

“If you wind up being less than what you’re pretending to be, there is a major confrontation with value and self-esteem and your sense of how others view you.”

Of Boorda and his apparent violation, Kerry said: “When you are the chief of them all, it has to weigh even more heavily.”

Kerry has likely been caught doing the same as Boorda and he is running for the position of Cammander and Chief.

Kerry‘s records refer to a "Silver Star with combat V." The Chicago Sun-Times has reported a U.S. Navy spokesman said, "Kerry's record is incorrect. The Navy has never issued a 'combat V' to anyone for a Silver Star." Naval regulations do not allow for the use of a "combat V" for the Silver Star, the third-highest decoration the Navy awards. None of the other services has ever granted a Silver Star "combat V," either.

If John Kerry has been touting a “V” that the Navy says he does not deserve, these quotes are going to be flung back in his face.

[Tiger Al 0]

No, David, the problem wouldn't be that "V" was listed on his DD214, the problem would be if he wore the "V" on his ribbon on his uniform, which is what Boorda did with his Bronze Star. This is the criteria for the Bronze Star:

The Bronze Star Medal may be awarded to individuals who, while serving in any capacity with the Armed Forces of the United States in a combat theater, distinguish themselves by heroism, outstanding achievement, or by meritorious service not involving aerial flight.

Additional awards are denoted by gold stars, and the Combat Distinguishing Device "V" may be authorized.

If Boorda wore the "V" on his uniform without it being authorized then that's a major mistake. He tried to increase the "value" of his award. If Kerry wore his Silver Star, which automatically includes heroism as a condition for receiving it, without the "V" attachment as it should be worn, even though his DD214 says "with "V"," then I don't see where he fouled unless his sin was to not know the regulations regarding the Silver Star and the "V" and/or not having the typographical error corrected. The article didn't say that Kerry wore the "V", only that it was listed on his DD214. If Kerry DID wear it then I suppose some argument can be made there that he was out of uniform and should've known better but he still wouldn't be trying to increase the value of his award because, as the article pointed out, "...the Navy doesn't give out Silver Stars with Vs, because it would be redundant."

I still don't see the significance of this.

[DKW 86 7,440]

The Lehman denial is pointing to how he would have even had a citation with "V" in the first place Al.

They have never issued Vs with a Silver Star, not one.

[Tiger Al 0]

The Lehman denial is pointing to how he would have even had a citation with "V" in the first place Al.

They have never issued Vs with a Silver Star, not one.

This article doesn't even mention Lehman or the citation. It is talking about his DD214. I thought this Lehman thing supposedly came about in the eighties. Wasn't he already discharged at that point? If so, the typographical error on his DD214 would've already occurred wouldn't it?

The primary question should be, "Did Kerry ever actually WEAR the Star with a "V" on it?" THAT would be his responsibility if he did. If he didn't, then he's guilty of not catching it on his DD214 on his way out of the Navy.

[DKW 86 7,440]

I think the monkeying around with his citations happened in the eighties. Lehman is listed as signing at leat one of Kerry's Citations. He was not there until 1981. Lehman swears he never actually signed it so it must have been an underling in the SecNav office with an autopen device.

[Tigermike 3,053]

Try this one and see if it helps.

ELECTION 2004

Questions swirl around Kerry's Silver Star

Researchers say 'unheard of' multiple citations 'sanitize' record

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted: August 26, 2004

1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com

Raising questions about John Kerry's Silver Star medal won in Vietnam, two researchers say its accompanying citation was reissued twice, an "unheard of" occurrence serving to expunge from the record the shooting of an enemy solider in the back and upgrade the signer from an admiral to the secretary of the Navy.

To reissue a citation, regulations would have required Kerry to prove there was an error in the previous citation or that the existence of the citation somehow constituted an "injustice," say Henry Mark Holzer and Erika Holzer, writing in Front Page magazine.

Henry Mark Holzer, professor emeritus at Brooklyn Law School, and Erika Holzer, a lawyer and novelist, are co-authors of "Fake Warriors: Identifying, Exposing and Punishing Those Who Falsify Their Military Service." They plan a second edition of their book with a new preface entitled "John Kerry: The Ultimate Fake Warrior."

The authors, who want Kerry to release all documents related to the citations, have noted another peculiarity about Kerry's Silver Star -- its unauthorized "V" for valor which "makes it facially false, they say, and at variance with official government records." That's because Silver Stars are given for gallantry and never are accompanied with a combat "V," which would be redundant. But Kerry's DD 214, or "Report of Transfer and Separation," displayed on his website, shows the "V."

The researchers are not affiliated with Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth, the group of 254 men who served with Kerry in Vietnam and now assert he is unfit to be commander in chief of the United States.

But Jerome Corsi, co-author of the swiftboat vets' book, "Unfit for Command," told WorldNetDaily the group has a lot of respect for their work.

"They've done some groundbreaking research ... examining the documentary evidence in order to come up with the truth," he said.

Corsi noted the swiftboat vets also have raised questions about multiple versions of Kerry's citations.

"Some subsequent citations appear to be embellished by personnel not there at the time, raising questions about which one is accurate and who asked for them to be revised and reissued," he said.

In "Unfit for Command," Corsi and co-author John O'Neill, a former swiftboat skipper, write Kerry was awarded his Silver Star "by killing a lone, fleeing, teenage Viet Cong in a loincloth."

The Silver Star, they write, "would never have been awarded had his actions been reviewed through normal channels. In his case, he was awarded the medal two days after the incident with no review. The medal was arranged to boost the morale of Coastal Division 11, but it was based on false and incomplete information provided by Kerry himself."

The swiftboat vets also assert two of Kerry's three Purple Hearts were a result of accidental, self-inflicted wounds.

Kerry's most recent Silver Star citation, nearly two decades older than the first, was signed by then-Secretary of the Navy John Lehman, who did not hold that position when Kerry was in Vietnam.

None of the three citations refer to the combat "V" that appears on the DD 214 on Kerry's website.

The first citation, signed by Vice Adm. E.R. Zumwalt Jr., commander of U.S. Naval Forces in Vietnam, is significantly different from the latter two in this section:

" ... Patrol Craft Fast 23 and 94 moved upstream to investigate an area from which gunshots were coming. Arriving at the area, Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY's craft received a B-40 rocket close aboard. Once again Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY ordered his units to charge the enemy positions and summoned Patrol Craft Fast 43 to the area to provide additional firepower. Patrol Craft Fast 94 then beached in the center of the enemy positions and an enemy soldier sprang up from his position not ten feet from Patrol Craft Fast 94 and fled. Without hesitation Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY leaped ashore, pursued the man behind a hootch and killed him, capturing a B-40 rocket launcher with a round in the chamber. Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY then led an assault party and conducted a sweep of the area while the Patrol Craft Fast continued to provide fire support. After the enemy had been completely routed, all personnel returned to the Patrol Craft Fast to withdraw from the area.”

Citation No. 2, however, signed by Adm. John J. Hyland, commander in chief of the U.S. Pacific Fleet, gives this account:

"On a request from U.S. Army advisors on shore, Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY ordered PCF’s 94 and 23 further up river to suppress enemy sniper fire. After proceeding approximately eight hundred yards, the boats were again taken under fire from a heavily foliated area and a B-40 rocket exploded close aboard PCF 94. With utter disregard for his own safety and the enemy rockets, he again ordered a charge on the enemy, beached his own boat only ten feet from the VC rocket position, and personally led a landing party ashore in pursuit of the enemy. Upon sweeping the area, an immediate search uncovered an enemy rest and supply area which was destroyed.”

The second citation was issued sometime between Feb. 29, 1969, and Dec. 5, 1970, when Hyland no longer was commander in chief of the Pacific Fleet.

Citation No. 3, signed by Lehman, who recently headed the 9-11 commission, reads this way:

"After proceeding approximately eight hundred yards, the boats were again taken under fire from a heavily foliated area and a B-40 rocket exploded close aboard PCF 94: with utter disregard for his own safety and the enemy rockets, he again ordered a charge on the enemy, beached his boat only ten feet from the VC rocket position, and personally led a landing party ashore in pursuit of the enemy. Upon sweeping the area an immediate search uncovered an enemy rest and supply area which was destroyed.

To obtain Citation No. 2, the authors say, Kerry would have had to prove that there was an error in Citation No. 1 and/or that the existence of that citation somehow constituted an "injustice."

The Holzers state: "While it is not difficult to understand why Kerry apparently sought and obtained a sanitized second version of his Silver Star citation, at first glance it is not so easy to surmise why Kerry went after yet a third citation, this time from Lehman (especially because the third citation is word-for-word, in every important respect, the same as the second)."

They speculate that in the 1980s, Kerry, by then a senator, may have been trying to upgrade his award, issued by a couple of "mere" admirals, to one issued by the secretary of the Navy.

Whatever the reason, they say, Hyland's Citation 2 and Lehman's Citation 3 would have had to satisfy the United States Code, which provides that the "Secretary of a military department may correct any military record of the Secretary's department when the Secretary considers it necessary to correct an error or remove an injustice."

The code provides that, "No correction may be made ... unless the claimant ... files a request for the correction within three years after he discovers the error or injustice. However, a board ... may excuse a failure to file within three years after discovery if it finds it to be in the interest of justice."

"Was the error in Citation 1 that he had shot the enemy soldier in the back, or that it was somehow an injustice to Kerry for the citation to say so?" the authors ask.

The problem for Kerry, they say, is that since Citation No. 3 is virtually identical to the second, there could be no error or injustice.

Another problem is that since the three-year statute of limitations had passed by the time Lehman was in office, in order for Kerry to obtain the correction, he would have had to prove that correcting Citation 2 was "in the interest of justice."

They conclude that changes based on any other reason than "for correcting misspellings or transpositions of service numbers or erroneous grades" would call into question the original decision to make the award.

That is why changing or correcting a citation is almost never done, they say.

The authors want Kerry to provide relevant records surrounding the issuance of the citations, contending that the questions they raise place him in a dilemma.

"If he stalls, or obfuscates, or refuses to answer, continuing a pattern he has employed about some of his more important records, the only reasonable conclusion is that he has something to hide," they write. "If he does answer, it is difficult to believe, given what is already known, that he will answer fully and truthfully.

LINK

[DKW 86 7,440]

http://www.aunation.net/forums/index.php?s...=9869&hl=lehman

Again this is a discussed subject, but V was on the Silver Star and it has never been awarded by any branch of the Service.

[Tiger Al 0]

I think the monkeying around with his citations happened in the eighties. Lehman is listed as signing at leat one of Kerry's Citations. He was not there until 1981. Lehman swears he never actually signed it so it must have been an underling in the SecNav office with an autopen device.

So then that allegation really has nothing to do with the discrepancy on his DD214 concerning the "V" device, does it?

[DKW 86 7,440]

I think the monkeying around with his citations happened in the eighties. Lehman is listed as signing at leat one of Kerry's Citations. He was not there until 1981. Lehman swears he never actually signed it so it must have been an underling in the SecNav office with an autopen device.

So then that allegation really has nothing to do with the discrepancy on his DD214 concerning the "V" device, does it?

THE CITATION is the real problem. I would of course dispute the DD214 and/or 215 if they were factually in error too.

Are you referrring to the 214 or 215? The 215 is the amended version.

[Tiger Al 0]

I'm referring to what was posted in the first article of this thread. It wasn't talking about citations or DD215's.

[DKW 86 7,440]

I'm referring to what was posted in the first article of this thread. It wasn't talking about citations or DD215's.

Are you talking about the 214 Kerry reviewed and signed knowing it was fraudulent?

[Tiger Al 0]

I'm referring to what was posted in the first article of this thread. It wasn't talking about citations or DD215's.

Are you talking about the 214 Kerry reviewed and signed knowing it was fraudulent?

To defraud means to seek through deceptive means that which you are not entitled. Is that what he did or was this just a typographical error that passed the inspection of everyone who saw it?

[DKW 86 7,440]

UPDATE: A retired Navy veteran who reads the Kerry Spot observes, "The fact that "with Combat V" to the Silver Star Medal appears on his DD214 is an unnecessary embellishment. One I might add the member is responsible for. Every member discharged from the service is asked to review their DD214 for accuracy. It's your last chance to get the record straight."

This was settled with the first post. It is the member's duty to verify everything is correct, no one else's.

[Tiger Al 0]

UPDATE: A retired Navy veteran who reads the Kerry Spot observes, "The fact that "with Combat V" to the Silver Star Medal appears on his DD214 is an unnecessary embellishment. One I might add the member is responsible for. Every member discharged from the service is asked to review their DD214 for accuracy. It's your last chance to get the record straight."

This was settled with the first post. It is the member's duty to verify everything is correct, no one else's.

So anyone with an inconsistency on their DD214 is committing fraud??? No exceptions, no discussion, no other conclusion? Thanks, David. You've managed to smear far more people than you perceived Mary Anne Marsh did. My DD214 has inconsistencies on it and I'm a fraud by your standards.

[DKW 86 7,440]

UPDATE: A retired Navy veteran who reads the Kerry Spot observes, "The fact that "with Combat V" to the Silver Star Medal appears on his DD214 is an unnecessary embellishment. One I might add the member is responsible for. Every member discharged from the service is asked to review their DD214 for accuracy. It's your last chance to get the record straight."

This was settled with the first post. It is the member's duty to verify everything is correct, no one else's.

So anyone with an inconsistency on their DD214 is committing fraud??? No exceptions, no discussion, no other conclusion? Thanks, David. You've managed to smear far more people than you perceived Mary Anne Marsh did. My DD214 has inconsistencies on it and I'm a fraud by your standards.

It was your responsibility too correct them or accept them. Mine has errors too. I didnt go get a SecNav underling to WhiteWash mine and neither did you.

[Tiger Al 0]

UPDATE: A retired Navy veteran who reads the Kerry Spot observes, "The fact that "with Combat V" to the Silver Star Medal appears on his DD214 is an unnecessary embellishment. One I might add the member is responsible for. Every member discharged from the service is asked to review their DD214 for accuracy. It's your last chance to get the record straight."

This was settled with the first post. It is the member's duty to verify everything is correct, no one else's.

So anyone with an inconsistency on their DD214 is committing fraud??? No exceptions, no discussion, no other conclusion? Thanks, David. You've managed to smear far more people than you perceived Mary Anne Marsh did. My DD214 has inconsistencies on it and I'm a fraud by your standards.

I didnt go get a SecNav underling to WhiteWash mine and neither did you.

I thought the accusation was that Kerry alledgedly got the citation amended in the eighties. Wasn't he already issued his DD214 before then? Or, are you saying his Silver Star was never awarded to him until he slipped it under the nose of Lehman or whoever? I'm not trying to be difficult, it's just that you seem to be making an argument for a different issue. I'm talking about the subject that you introduced on this thread.

It was your responsibility too correct them or accept them. Mine has errors too.

And you're saying that we have committed FRAUD???

[DKW 86 7,440]

Link

'V' for valor or Kerry's version?

     Of the many charges against John Kerry's Vietnam record made by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, the Kerry campaign has managed to keep Mr. Kerry's Silver Star story above water. Chicago Tribune editor William B. Rood came out last week as an eyewitness to the events of Feb. 28, 1969, bolstering Mr. Kerry's version of events, as have official Naval records. Though Mr. Kerry has had to backtrack on at least two of his accounts — the "Christmas in Cambodia" story and whether he really deserved his first Purple Heart — the day when Mr. Kerry beached his swift boat and tracked down a Viet Cong soldier seems to have withstood scrutiny.

    Which is why we were surprised when we ran across some news accounts questioning Mr. Kerry's DD 214 ( a veteran's record of transfer or separation), which lists his Silver Star with a combat "V" (for valor) and is posted at JohnKerry.com. According to military experts and historians, the combat "V" is never awarded with a Silver Star. As Henry Mark and Erika Holzer note in Frontpagemag.com, "it would be redundant to award a Silver Star for 'gallantry' and then embellish it with a 'V' for valor." The authors also cite the Navy Awards Manual, which describes the laws concerning Combat Distinguishing Devices: Prior to 1974, "the 'V' was authorized for wear on the Legion of Merit, Bronze Star Medal, Joint Service Commendation Medal, Navy Commendation Medal and Navy Achievement Medal." Since then, about four more medals have been authorized. Conspicuously missing of course is the Silver Star.

    On Friday, the Chicago Sun-Times ran a similar story by Thomas Lipscomb, who spoke to B.G. Burkett, author of "Stolen Valor" and recipient of the Army's highest award given to a civilian, the Distinguished Civilian Service Award. For his book, Mr. Burkett had to read thousands of military records to uncover phony claims of awards. "I've run across several claims for Silver Stars with combat 'V's, but they were all in fake records," he told Mr. Lipscomb.

    Mr. and Mrs. Holzer bring up another interesting point. Over at JohnKerry.com, the Navy citation for Mr. Kerry's Silver Star does not mention the combat "V". It appears, then, that the Navy didn't mistakingly grant a "V" with Mr. Kerry's Silver Star. So, how did it get into Mr. Kerry's DD 214?

    This is more serious than one would think. In Title 19, U.S. Code, Section 1001, the law states: "Whoever, in any manner within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the United States, knowingly and willfully ... makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years or both." As Mr. Lipscomb reports, a complaint filed by Mr. Burkett actually led to the sentencing of Navy Capt. Roger D. Edwards to 115 days in the brig for falsification of his records.

    Mr. Kerry has yet another inconsistency to account for, and this one is by no means a question of foggy memories.

[Tiger Al 0]

David, do you really think this is an issue?

[DKW 86 7,440]

1) It is on the Silver Star.

2) You have to wonder how the citations got changed, especially on Lehman's Watch.

3) Why doesn't Kerry just release the rest of his record and make all this go away?

[Tiger Al 0]

1) It is on the Silver Star.

What is on the Silver Star?

2) You have to wonder how the citations got changed, especially on Lehman's Watch.

I'm asking specifically about his DD 214.

3) Why doesn't Kerry just release the rest of his record and make all this go away?

What do you think is "hidden?"

[DKW 86 7,440]

Al, your asking questions about EVERYTHING ANYONE SAYS is getting old.

1) It is on the Silver Star.

What is on the Silver Star?

The V that has everyone questioning Kerry again. You and I have gone over this territory only a handful of times already. You keep saying it is on his Bronze, no big deal. It is on his Silver Star, as written on his DD214/215.

2) You have to wonder how the citations got changed, especially on Lehman's Watch.

I'm asking specifically about his DD 214.

The DD214/215 looks to have been altered after he exited service, hence the problems.

3) Why doesn't Kerry just release the rest of his record and make all this go away?

What do you think is "hidden?"

Al, give it up if you cant keep up, go home. There is post after post on this board about the Navy saying there are >100 pages still in his records not released yet.

Please Al. Everyone knows your beat when you just keep asking the same questions that have already been answered over and over again.

[Tiger Al 0]

The V that has everyone questioning Kerry again. You and I have gone over this territory only a handful of times already. You keep saying it is on his Bronze, no big deal. It is on his Silver Star, as written on his DD214/215.

I've never said it was on his Bronze. I've not even discussed his Bronze in this thread. Did Kerry fill out or alter his DD 214? If the answer is "no" then we're done. If the answer is "yes" then I'd like to see some proof or at least some solid circumstantial evidence.

The DD214/215 looks to have been altered after he exited service, hence the problems.

Why does it look to be altered?

Al, give it up if you cant keep up, go home. There is post after post on this board about the Navy saying there are >100 pages still in his records not released yet.

What do you think is in there?

Please Al. Everyone knows your beat when you just keep asking the same questions that have already been answered over and over again.

I've asked the same questions because you can't give an honest answer to the question. I ask about the 214 and you answer with something about his citation. I ask you if he willingly and knowingly committed fraud and you talk about Lehman.

[DKW 86 7,440]

Al Shut up!

THis is the worst arguing in circles I have ever seen on this board.

Kerry has THREE CITATIONS for one medal, his silver star. They all issue just a Silver Star. The first one includes wording on shooting a kid in the back. The other two sound almost identical except that Lehman's sig is on the third and he declared it totally bogus.

His DD214/215 says he was awarded a Silver Star with V. Only the Navy, nor any other service, has never issued that Medal. Therefore it is at least in error and since it may actually be a dd215, which is a corrected reissue, then that begs the question, why did he ask for another and why not ask for a correction? Fraud perhaps?

What do I think is in his records...SOMETHING HE WANTS TO HIDE FROM THE US ELECTORATE! What? I dont know, but it must be pretty bad to endure all this crap and still sit on the records.

Again about Lehman, you tell me how a SecNav, years after Kerry's discharge, is supposed to have signed a medal citation. Come on you explain it to me and the rest of us. You tell us how his citation got changed years after discharge and he may have got a new dd215 as well.

What is your explanation Al, how did it happen? The guy typing the dd214 was looking at this records, how did that SSw/ V get there? Come on Al, Think, tell us!!! Why does he have THREE CITATIONS FOR ONE MEDAL? Tell us Al, Answer that one. Give us some insight.

Dont give us more BS about the dd214 and how it is wrong, tell us why he has three citations for one medal, Answer that Al, answer that. Just for once, answer that one question.