George Zimmerman Trial

[AURaptor 1,122]

Well, maybe Trayvon simply reacted to an unidentified guy in civilian cloths walking up and confronting him while showing his pistol, just as Zimmerman testified he did.

Maybe? Do you KNOW GZ was in all civilian clothes, with no badge, no insignia, nothing to indicate he was some sort of security ? Nothing ? And did he really testify that he gave no indication to Trayvon of who he was ?

It's funny how everyone fills in the details from their own paradigms.

Like you're doing here ? Yeah. That's a laugh riot.

[homersapien 11,367]

Well, maybe Trayvon simply reacted to an unidentified guy in civilian cloths walking up and confronting him while showing his pistol, just as Zimmerman testified he did.

Maybe? Do you KNOW GZ was in all civilian clothes, with no badge, no insignia, nothing to indicate he was some sort of security ? Nothing ? And did he really testify that he gave no indication to Trayvon of who he was ?

It's funny how everyone fills in the details from their own paradigms.

Like you're doing here ? Yeah. That's a laugh riot.

Well, please stop laughing and show me where I have insisted it happened a certain way.

The only statement of "fact" I have made is that an armed Zimmerman got out of his car to confront Trayvon. That's all I need to know.

My belief is that the right to carry a gun comes with an responsibility to avoid situations where you may feel you need to use it. The state of Florida may disagree. This jury may disagree. If so, it will be a terribly wrong conclusion IMO. It would give a green light to every trigger-happy vigilante in the state.

[homersapien 11,367]

Well, maybe Trayvon simply reacted to an unidentified guy in civilian cloths walking up and confronting him while showing his pistol, just as Zimmerman testified he did.

Maybe? Do you KNOW GZ was in all civilian clothes, with no badge, no insignia, nothing to indicate he was some sort of security ? Nothing ? And did he really testify that he gave no indication to Trayvon of who he was ?

Yeah, maybe. And I don't KNOW anything other than the undisputed facts. Zimmerman was reportedly wearing a black and red jacket. No one has mentioned anything about badges or uniforms, so an assumption that he was dressed as a civilian seems reasonable. (Even though I don't KNOW that, since I wasn't there.)

But according to Zimmerman himself:

"I had my firearm on my right-side hip. My jacket moved up. And he saw it. I feel like he saw it. He looked at it. And he said, "You're going to die tonight (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

And he reached for it. But he reached -- like, I felt his arm going down to my side, and I grabbed it. And I just grabbed my firearm and I shot him one time."

[alexava 6,973]

Well, maybe Trayvon simply reacted to an unidentified guy in civilian cloths walking up and confronting him while showing his pistol, just as Zimmerman testified he did.

Maybe? Do you KNOW GZ was in all civilian clothes, with no badge, no insignia, nothing to indicate he was some sort of security ? Nothing ? And did he really testify that he gave no indication to Trayvon of who he was ?

Yeah, maybe. And I don't KNOW anything other than the undisputed facts. Zimmerman was reportedly wearing a black and red jacket. No one has mentioned anything about badges or uniforms, so an assumption that he was dressed as a civilian seems reasonable. (Even though I don't KNOW that, since I wasn't there.)

But according to Zimmerman himself:

"I had my firearm on my right-side hip. My jacket moved up. And he saw it. I feel like he saw it. He looked at it. And he said, "You're going to die tonight (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

And he reached for it. But he reached -- like, I felt his arm going down to my side, and I grabbed it. And I just grabbed my firearm and I shot him one time."

i hadn't seen that

[homersapien 11,367]

i hadn't seen that

It was excerpted from Zimmerman's account of the events.

http://www.pbs.org/n...rman_06-24.html

Regardless, the way I see it, everything that happened after he left the car to confront Martin is moot.

[AURaptor 1,122]

So, Trayvon REACHED for another man's gun, which was in the holster, and told GZ that he was gonna die tonight ?

Hell, if that's true, and everything else is syncing up w/ what GZ has said, why is this trial even taking place ???

[TitanTiger 20,472]

So, Trayvon REACHED for another man's gun, which was in the holster

If you were fighting with a man you didn't know who'd been stalking you, would you wait around to let him get it first?

and told GZ that he was gonna die tonight ?

According to GZ. We have no corroboration of that from anyone else.

Hell, if that's true, and everything else is syncing up w/ what GZ has said, why is this trial even taking place ???

Well that's the rub. We have no idea of what GZ says about that part is true and there are some discrepancies in his story that are worth exploring.

[Wareagletd 0]

George Zimmerman will probably be found not guilty. I give it a 95% chance that he walks. If he is found guilty, I will be hugely surprised. Based off his accounts, self defense will get him off. He got advanced towards in an aggressive manner. TM reached for his gun.

[alexava 6,973]

Did TM reach for the gun while he was on top of him pummeling him? I see no way there is a murder conviction. I also see a riot ensuing.

[alexava 6,973]

So, Trayvon REACHED for another man's gun, which was in the holster, and told GZ that he was gonna die tonight ?

Hell, if that's true, and everything else is syncing up w/ what GZ has said, why is this trial even taking place ???

there was no arrest until the uproar started. the initial investigation seemed to see it GZ's way.

[homersapien 11,367]

So, Trayvon REACHED for another man's gun, which was in the holster, and told GZ that he was gonna die tonight ?

Hell, if that's true, and everything else is syncing up w/ what GZ has said, why is this trial even taking place ???

there was no arrest until the uproar started. the initial investigation seemed to see it GZ's way.

Guess Trayvon just wasn't very convincing.

[augolf1716 21,109]

Did TM reach for the gun while he was on top of him pummeling him? I see no way there is a murder conviction. I also see a riot ensuing.

I live about 10 miles from the courthouse I don't believe a riot will happen but you never know. I will say I will not drive thru Eatonville if he gets off

[Grumps 3,704]

Did TM reach for the gun while he was on top of him pummeling him? I see no way there is a murder conviction. I also see a riot ensuing.

I live about 10 miles from the courthouse I don't believe a riot will happen but you never know. I will say I will not drive thru Eatonville if he gets off

I don't think the rioting will come from the locals. Also, I don't think the rioting will be too bad since Zimmerman is not 100% white.

[TeBoneAU 89]

IMHO once Zimmerman disobeyed the 911 authorities orders he became the PROBLEM. His actions caused EVERYTHING else that took place from that point on. In my eyes Zimmerman is guilty and should be punished.

[alexava 6,973]

I don't think he was ordered not to follow, but advised not to.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

The 911 dispatcher is not an "authority." They can advise you on what to do, but it's not like he ignored a direct order from a police officer.

That said, this confrontation happened because of Zimmerman. Without him playing vigilante mall cop and stalking the kid, this incident never happens. But that alone isn't enough to convict.

[AUGradinTX 0]

Two things:

If GZ would not have followed TM, this wouldn't have happened.

TM would also be alive if he had kept going to the residence where he was staying rather than hiding in the darkness and waiting for GZ to pass close enough to where he could jump him.

Worth noting:

There were at least 8 reported robberies in this community in the span of about a year leading up to this incident. From what I have read, the neighborhood watch program was started in this community because of an increase in crime. I believe GZ was one of the residents who started the program.

GZ has stated he did not leave his vehicle to follow TM, but to get a look at an address (that he was asked for from dispatch) to relay to police.

[alexava 6,973]

The 911 dispatcher is not an "authority." They can advise you on what to do, but it's not like he ignored a direct order from a police officer.

That said, this confrontation happened because of Zimmerman. Without him playing vigilante mall cop and stalking the kid, this incident never happens. But that alone isn't enough to convict.

we basically agree. Its a bad bad situation. Based on the evidence we have, from the media, i couldn't convict.

[AURaptor 1,122]

The 911 dispatcher is not an "authority." They can advise you on what to do, but it's not like he ignored a direct order from a police officer.

That said, this confrontation happened because of Zimmerman. Without him playing vigilante mall cop and stalking the kid, this incident never happens. But that alone isn't enough to convict.

we basically agree. Its a bad bad situation. Based on the evidence we have, from the media, i couldn't convict.

Based on the hysteria that's been genned up by the media, if there isn't a conviction, they'll claim it's open season on young black males.

Just don't tell them about Chicago.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

GZ has stated he did not leave his vehicle to follow TM, but to get a look at an address (that he was asked for from dispatch) to relay to police.

That's where his story breaks down though. If you see the maps that show where his truck was parked when police arrived, he was near the corner of a street. He didn't have that far to walk to find a street sign. And he says he was walking back to his truck when Martin "jumped" him. Yet somehow, they ended up over a football field in length and around a row of townhouses away from that area when GZ shot him. That just doesn't wash to me.

[homersapien 11,367]

The 911 dispatcher is not an "authority." They can advise you on what to do, but it's not like he ignored a direct order from a police officer.

That said, this confrontation happened because of Zimmerman. Without him playing vigilante mall cop and stalking the kid, this incident never happens. But that alone isn't enough to convict.

we basically agree. Its a bad bad situation. Based on the evidence we have, from the media, i couldn't convict.

Based on the hysteria that's been genned up by the media, if there isn't a conviction, they'll claim it's open season on young black males.

Just don't tell them about Chicago.

What "hysteria" ginned up by the media?

[alexava 6,973]

The 911 dispatcher is not an "authority." They can advise you on what to do, but it's not like he ignored a direct order from a police officer.

That said, this confrontation happened because of Zimmerman. Without him playing vigilante mall cop and stalking the kid, this incident never happens. But that alone isn't enough to convict.

we basically agree. Its a bad bad situation. Based on the evidence we have, from the media, i couldn't convict.

Based on the hysteria that's been genned up by the media, if there isn't a conviction, they'll claim it's open season on young black males.

Just don't tell them about Chicago.

What "hysteria" ginned up by the media?

the hysteria that made the PD go back and make an arrest after their initial investigation didn't feel it was warranted.

[telling tiger 156]

Not everyone in the Sanford police department felt that way. A detective just testified his original investigation made him lean toward suggesting a manslaughter charge if not minimally second degree. That testimony came from Chris Serino, the former lead investigator on the case.

[augolf1716 21,109]

Not everyone in the Sanford police department felt that way. A detective just testified his original investigation made him lean toward suggesting a manslaughter charge if not minimally second degree. That testimony came from Chris Serino, the former lead investigator on the case.

This is true not everyone in the police department agreed with what to charge him with at first or to charge him at all. Stand your ground has some very good merits and some very bad ones.

[AUGradinTX 0]

GZ has stated he did not leave his vehicle to follow TM, but to get a look at an address (that he was asked for from dispatch) to relay to police.

That's where his story breaks down though. If you see the maps that show where his truck was parked when police arrived, he was near the corner of a street. He didn't have that far to walk to find a street sign. And he says he was walking back to his truck when Martin "jumped" him. Yet somehow, they ended up over a football field in length and around a row of townhouses away from that area when GZ shot him. That just doesn't wash to me.

This is the police video taken in a walk through of what happened according to Zimmerman. I don't find anything unusual about it at all. The "corner" you are talking about is not an actual corner where two streets meet, but rather a sharp curve. Therefore, there is no street sign present.

At this time, GZ actually tells the dispatch that the suspect has disappeared. The dispatch asks if he still wants the police to come and he says, "yes." The dispatch asks again for an address for the police to go to and GZ tells them he will meet them at the clubhouse at the beginning of the complex (thinking TM had left the scene). GZ was on his way back to his truck when he was confronted by TM.

Considering both sides, TM didn't try to avoid GZ. The direction that GZ says TM headed while he was parked at that curve is in the direction of his residence. He had a clear path leading to the residence where he was staying, but did not go. He chose to stay. In fact, he actually waited in a dark area for GZ to pass by on his way back to his truck and approached GZ from behind.

Homer posted transcripts of Zimmerman saying his firearm was visible and that he was sure TM saw it. After watching this video, you will see that this was after TM had punched GZ and had him on the ground. So, his post was misleading. This seems far more logical to me. Nobody in their right mind is going to attack someone who they know has a firearm on their hip.

What I take most from this video is that TM actually came back towards GZ, or followed him as he was going back to his truck. It kinda moots the whole "GZ was stalking TM" talk. It seems the incident was over, then TM decided to follow GZ and attack him.

I know this is GZ's account of the night, but if GZ got out of his vehicle to confront TM and TM was aware of him the entire time, the neighbors would have heard the confrontation earlier than they did. It seems to me GZ was startled from behind and it was his voice calling for help.

Worth noting: TM's father initially stated that the calls for help were not his son's voice. He changed his story after TM's mother said it was.