Why Poor People Stay Poor

[AUDub 11,147]

3 minutes ago, Mims44 said:

I hadn't heard that before.

And it's shocking to realize how true it is

The poor are often in a bind. A car is pretty much a requirement to hold down a job in this day and age and, with most of them having poor credit, a bad loan is often their only option. An entire industry has sprung up around it. John Oliver had a great segment on it a while back. 

[maxwere 82]

The reason the poor stay where they are?  This:

Quote

It takes money to make money.

Recognize nonsense.  We are being taught 0 about thrift and economics.  Worse, the administrators and intelligentsia wish to keep subjects of the state this way.  The rest is all subjective antidotes.  It takes human capital to save money.  Humans have to produce more than they (+ government locusts) consume.  Any person with access to the internet can educate themselves on this process here:

https://books.google.com/books?id=7blEAAAAYAAJ&dq=robinson crusoe&pg=PR3#v=onepage&q=robinson crusoe&f=false

[SaltyTiger 7,793]

24 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said:

The poor are often in a bind. A car is pretty much a requirement to hold down a job in this day and age and, with most of them having poor credit, a bad loan is often their only option. An entire industry has sprung up around it. John Oliver had a great segment on it a while back. 

Can not stand the obvious sleazeballs. actually selling the horrible financing. The vehicle or whatever is secondary. We had a valued laborer years ago that got in a bind with one of the " rent to own" places. Reviewed his so called contract and situation. We ended up confronting the place. End of the day we where threatening the sleazeballs.on top of getting our guy out of his perceived bind.  

[alexava 6,973]

The payday loan places are just as bad but there clientele makes it horrible on themselves. My sister worked at one of these, actually ran it for the owner. I would stop by occasionally. She had customers that were there WEEKLY. I know people get in binds when unexpected things happen with no disposable income. But when you get in a cycle and basically give these loan sharks 15-20% or whatever the rate is, you are digging a different kind of hole. It is not a stretch to decide to take a second job for at least a couple months and put some distance between yourself and starvation.

I do understand the gist of all this. I know people who are poor and just seem to expect to be poor. I guess i just expect not to be poor. it has worked so well i need to convince myself to be rich.

[Mims44 1,867]

9 hours ago, Bigbens42 said:

The poor are often in a bind. A car is pretty much a requirement to hold down a job in this day and age and, with most of them having poor credit, a bad loan is often their only option. An entire industry has sprung up around it. John Oliver had a great segment on it a while back. 

Nah man, I understand that too well.

Bought a new ride after my first marriage ended, where she maxxed out multiple CCs using both our names. Had I not paid so much in cash for it I would have spent well over 50k for a ride that sold in the 20's. Bad credit means you pay around double for everything you get.

[maxwere 82]

13 hours ago, alexava said:

The payday loan places are just as bad but there clientele makes it horrible on themselves. My sister worked at one of these, actually ran it for the owner. I would stop by occasionally. She had customers that were there WEEKLY. I know people get in binds when unexpected things happen with no disposable income. But when you get in a cycle and basically give these loan sharks 15-20% or whatever the rate is, you are digging a different kind of hole. It is not a stretch to decide to take a second job for at least a couple months and put some distance between yourself and starvation.

I do understand the gist of all this. I know people who are poor and just seem to expect to be poor. I guess i just expect not to be poor. it has worked so well i need to convince myself to be rich.

Bingo, the problem isn't sharks or high interest rates.  They have to charge risk premium on top of the lending rate.  How much do you think it costs to hire collection agency, repo or go to court?  Who pays for default?

Low credit, pawn, title, cash advance, RTO places don't take advantage of poor people.  They take advantage of lazy, entitled, greedy, irresponsible people.  Correlation does not equal causality.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

44 minutes ago, maxwere said:

Bingo, the problem isn't sharks or high interest rates.  They have to charge risk premium on top of the lending rate.  How much do you think it costs to hire collection agency, repo or go to court?  Who pays for default?

Low credit, pawn, title, cash advance, RTO places don't take advantage of poor people.  They take advantage of lazy, entitled, greedy, irresponsible people.  Correlation does not equal causality.

Sure, everyone who has ever experienced hardship is lazy, entitled, greedy, irresponsible, etc.  

One day, you may find yourself as the guy in the desert without any water.   I hope you find someone who has a better spirit than yourself.

[autigeremt 6,600]

On 3/12/2017 at 7:27 PM, icanthearyou said:

I don't blame the government for keeping anyone poor.  However, I do not like it when the government allows someone to become wealthy by preying upon the poor, the aged, or the ignorant, the powerless.  I have never cared for the idea of profiting from the misery of others.

I blame the political parties which control government.

[homersapien 11,367]

1 hour ago, maxwere said:

Bingo, the problem isn't sharks or high interest rates.  They have to charge risk premium on top of the lending rate.  How much do you think it costs to hire collection agency, repo or go to court?  Who pays for default?

Low credit, pawn, title, cash advance, RTO places don't take advantage of poor people.  They take advantage of lazy, entitled, greedy, irresponsible people.  Correlation does not equal causality.

My, my, aren't we being self-righteous.

[alexava 6,973]

56 minutes ago, maxwere said:

Bingo, the problem isn't sharks or high interest rates.  They have to charge risk premium on top of the lending rate.  How much do you think it costs to hire collection agency, repo or go to court?  Who pays for default?

Low credit, pawn, title, cash advance, RTO places don't take advantage of poor people.  They take advantage of lazy, entitled, greedy, irresponsible people.  Correlation does not equal causality.

I won't call them lazy, entitled and damn sure not greedy. Irresponsible, absolutely. Ignorant is more like it. They need some actual training in self discipline and simple math. There are people who make near six figures that expose themselves to this too. But I think the majority are in the 10-15$ hour labor pool. They borrow 200$ Tuesday pay 230$ Friday every damn week. Just a month of cuts and extra income would get them out of the cycle. Then your car breaks down, I understand. get it back going. do what it takes. But don't live like that permanently. 

[icanthearyou 4,462]

5 minutes ago, homersapien said:

My, my, aren't we being self-righteous.

As well as arrogant and inhumane.

[maxwere 82]

49 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Sure, everyone who has ever experienced hardship is lazy, entitled, greedy, irresponsible, etc.

When you write...

But they read:

Who's the inhumane one again?

[maxwere 82]

32 minutes ago, alexava said:

I won't call them lazy, entitled and damn sure not greedy. Irresponsible, absolutely. Ignorant is more like it. They need some actual training in self discipline and simple math. There are people who make near six figures that expose themselves to this too. But I think the majority are in the 10-15$ hour labor pool. They borrow 200$ Tuesday pay 230$ Friday every damn week. Just a month of cuts and extra income would get them out of the cycle. Then your car breaks down, I understand. get it back going. do what it takes. But don't live like that permanently. 

I call them greedy: intense and selfish desire for something

[icanthearyou 4,462]

17 minutes ago, alexava said:

I won't call them lazy, entitled and damn sure not greedy. Irresponsible, absolutely. Ignorant is more like it. They need some actual training in self discipline and simple math. There are people who make near six figures that expose themselves to this too. But I think the majority are in the 10-15$ hour labor pool. They borrow 200$ Tuesday pay 230$ Friday every damn week. Just a month of cuts and extra income would get them out of the cycle. Then your car breaks down, I understand. get it back going. do what it takes. But don't live like that permanently. 

This is true.  They need to learn:

How to obtain credit in the name of an entity and, not personally.

Never sign personal guarantees.

The difference between who you have to pay and, who you pay by choice.

Do not borrow from the bank in which you deposit.

How to hold assets in a manner in which they can not be attached by creditors.

You can be greedy, irresponsible, lazy, entitled and,,,,rich.  If you have a good lawyer, a good accountant, situational ethics.

These "qualities" (greedy, irresponsible, lazy, entitled) are irrelevant.  Knowing the "rules" and how to utilize them is much more important.

 

[icanthearyou 4,462]

2 hours ago, maxwere said:

When you write...

But they read:

Who's the inhumane one again?

Who is being targeted???

I suppose you are inclined to respect the meth dealer.  He's just filling demand.  Right?

Your ideological idiocy is compromising who you are as a human being.

And, you are now lying.  That is not what you wrote and, certainly not what I read.  You should concern yourself with how you present your thoughts and, stop pretending you can present mine.  

[maxwere 82]

2 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Who is being targeted???

I suppose you are inclined to respect the meth dealer.  He's just filling demand.  Right?

Your ideological idiocy is compromising who you are as a human being.

Subjective, arbitrary and ad hominem.  Proof your argument is getting destroyed right now.

Focus on demand, not supply.  I think we agreed on that up there somewhere.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

1 minute ago, maxwere said:

Subjective, arbitrary and ad hominem.  Proof your argument is getting destroyed right now.

Focus on demand, not supply.  I think we agreed on that up there somewhere.

No,  It merely proves your argument is void of any factors other than your inane ideology.  

And again, your ideological idiocy has compromised your intellect and integrity.  Your inability/unwillingness to understand my argument, in no way qualifies/justifies the use of the term "destroyed".  Were that true, you would not have to make such an arrogant statement.

[AUloggerhead 2,229]

On 3/13/2017 at 4:33 AM, PUB78 said:

I heard a presentation last year , where the speaker said you had a 98% chance of not being poor if you did the following;

1. Graduate from high school 

2. Get a job

3. Don't have children until after you are married 

4. Don't abuse drugs or alcohol.

Dr. Walter Williams has written about this and has been saying this for many years:  Free advice (obviously ignored by the majority)

Quote

... Avoiding long-term poverty is not rocket science. First, graduate from high school. Second, get married before you have children, and stay married. Third, work at any kind of job, even one that starts out paying the minimum wage. And, finally, avoid engaging in criminal behavior.  ...

 

[maxwere 82]

2 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

No,  It merely proves your argument is void of any factors other than your inane ideology.  

And again, your ideological idiocy has compromised your intellect and integrity.  Your inability/unwillingness to understand my argument, in no way qualifies/justifies the use of the term "destroyed".  Were that true, you would not have to make such an arrogant statement.

Would it make you feel better if I said that I deal with greed, laziness and impulsiveness too?  Has nothing to do with my race, or environment.  Everything to do with my ethical condition.  Call a spade a spade.  Call me crazy, but I don't have a different ethical standard for race or economic status or my own household.  I think there is a word in the english language...

[maxwere 82]

On 3/13/2017 at 6:33 AM, PUB78 said:

I heard a presentation last year , where the speaker said you had a 98% chance of not being poor if you did the following;

1. Graduate from high school 

2. Get a job

3. Don't have children until after you are married 

4. Don't abuse drugs or alcohol.

Yet, if you do all these things your Richard Branson.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

5 minutes ago, maxwere said:

Would it make you feel better if I said that I deal with greed, laziness and impulsiveness too?  Has nothing to do with my race, or environment.  Everything to do with my ethical condition.  Call a spade a spade.  Call me crazy, but I don't have a different ethical standard for race or economic status or my own household.  I think there is a word in the english language...

No.  I have witnessed your transformation.

I don't believe you are crazy.  I believe you are arrogant, close-minded, ideologically locked into generalized narratives that hold some truth but, little real understanding.

[maxwere 82]

9 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

No.  I have witnessed your transformation.

I don't believe you are crazy.  I believe you are arrogant, close-minded, ideologically locked into generalized narratives that hold some truth but, little real understanding.

You've witnessed my transformation from closed minded ideology to closed minded ideology... got it.  This isn't contradictory at all.

[homersapien 11,367]

All this ideology and self-righteous judgement misses the point.  Look at poverty from a human perspective:

People aren't born into equal circumstances / environment.  It's short-sighted to blame people - who literally don't know any better, and have no way of knowing any better - for making the wrong choices.   

The brain is being actively programmed from the point of birth, either deliberately - through responsible parenting - or passively by whatever environment exists.  Ultimately, the reasons for poverty are not derived from making bad "decisions", it's a result of children not being taught the questions - of not knowing their options.  

Poverty replicates itself.  It is a sociological disease that merits a comprehensive cure.

There are two agents than can effect that cure - private (including religious organizations) and public (government).  I see no good reason for ruling out either agent on a ideological basis.

[alexava 6,973]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

All this ideology and self-righteous judgement misses the point.  Look at poverty from a human perspective:

People aren't born into equal circumstances / environment.  It's short-sighted to blame people - who literally don't know any better, and have no way of knowing any better - for making the wrong choices.   

The brain is being actively programmed from the point of birth, either deliberately - through responsible parenting - or passively by whatever environment exists.  Ultimately, the reasons for poverty are not derived from making bad "decisions", it's a result of children not being taught the questions - not knowing their options.  

Poverty replicates itself.  It is a sociological disease that merits a comprehensive cure.

There are two agents than can effect that cure - private (including religious organizations) and public (government).  I see no good reason for ruling out either agent on a ideological basis.

This is what i mean when i say i know people who seem to "expect" to be poor. They work hard, they are not dumb or untrainable but ignorant and oblivious to facts and basic knowledge that could change their finances. I also see people do it to themselves too and they do know better. However I still think it is largely an inherited problem.

[maxwere 82]

14 hours ago, homersapien said:

All this ideology and self-righteous judgement misses the point.  Look at poverty from a human perspective:

People aren't born into equal circumstances / environment.  It's short-sighted to blame people - who literally don't know any better, and have no way of knowing any better - for making the wrong choices.   

The brain is being actively programmed from the point of birth, either deliberately - through responsible parenting - or passively by whatever environment exists.  Ultimately, the reasons for poverty are not derived from making bad "decisions", it's a result of children not being taught the questions - of not knowing their options.  

Poverty replicates itself.  It is a sociological disease that merits a comprehensive cure.

There are two agents than can effect that cure - private (including religious organizations) and public (government).  I see no good reason for ruling out either agent on a ideological basis.

The point is?  People are born into unequal economic circumstances or lack of economic education or a perpetuate nature that effects the cure?