Trump or Lincoln?

[TexasTiger 12,835]

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/472460-poll-majority-of-republicans-say-trump-better-president-than-lincoln

[SaltyTiger 7,793]

[TitanTiger 20,472]

On 11/30/2019 at 3:54 PM, TexasTiger said:

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/472460-poll-majority-of-republicans-say-trump-better-president-than-lincoln

The Republican base is getting dumber by the minute.

[AUFAN78 3,894]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

The Republican base is getting dumber by the minute.

I can't recall, but do you identify as Republican?

[TitanTiger 20,472]

32 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

I can't recall, but do you identify as Republican?

No. I identify as a conservative - particularly on social issues.  Somewhat less so on other matters, depending on the issue.  The Republican Party is a joke. 

[AUFAN78 3,894]

13 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

No. I identify as a conservative - particularly on social issues.  Somewhat less so on other matters, depending on the issue.  The Republican Party is a joke. 

Fair enough. Your thoughts on the Democratic Party?

[TitanTiger 20,472]

13 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

Fair enough. Your thoughts on the Democratic Party?

Why does it matter?  I can’t bring myself to vote for one in a national election.  But it's a thread about stupid Republicans who think Trump is a better President than Lincoln.  Democrats aren’t relevant to the subject. 

[AUFAN78 3,894]

4 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I can’t bring myself to vote for one in a national election.

Nuff said.

[homersapien 11,367]

The more love Always Trumpers show, the more dangerous Trump becomes

You’ve heard of the Never Trumpers. That’s the president’s catchall slur for anyone who criticizes him or at least accurately attests to something unsavory he’s done.

But let’s talk instead for a moment about the true risk to our democracy: the Always Trumpers. These are people such as Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.), Sen. John Neely Kennedy (R-La.) and even the once-reasonable-sounding Rep. Will Hurd (R-Tex.), who excuse away any evidence of impeachment-worthy misdeeds no matter how damning.

The Always Trumpers represent a sprawling group of lackeys and co-conspirators, willing to aid, abet and (most importantly) adore President Trump no matter what he’s credibly accused of. Come hell or high crimes, Always Trumpers always truckle to Trump.

It doesn’t matter whether he’s extorting a desperate ally into announcing a fake investigation into a domestic political rival, compromising both that ally’s national security and ours. The Always Trumpers, many of whom were once Russia hawks, will stand by their man.

Many even cheerfully assist him in spreading Kremlin-planted propaganda.

It’s no worry that he’s encouraging war crimes and pardoning war criminals. Those onetime law-and-order fanatics now believe their lawless leader knows best.

He can betray his party’s commitment to free trade by inflicting tariffs that condemn U.S. manufacturers to recession and farmers to bankruptcy. He can then try to tidy up his trade-war mistakes with a ginormous farmer bailout, one that’s now more than twice as expensive as the 2009 auto-industry bailout that many Republicans opposed.

He can find other ways to undermine the GOP’s stated commitment to unfettered capitalism. He dictates where and how supply chains must operate, and weaponizes state power to reward companies that flatter him and punish those that don’t. Companies hoping for merger approval or tariff exemptions must kiss his ring. Or, preferably, grease his palm, with a stay at the otherwise half-empty Trump International Hotel in Washington.

Somehow, those erstwhile free marketers remain Always Trumpers.

Trump can persecute people based on their religious beliefs; he can have affairs with porn stars; he can rip nursing infants from their mothers’ breasts. Even the Bible Belters have buckled, and family-values-fixated Republicans remain perpetual pro-Trumpers, too.

Some Always Trumpers are die-hard cultists, proposing gristly punishments for the president’s perceived enemies (such as death by hanging for House Democrats who deign to exercise their constitutional oversight responsibilities). Others, such as retiring congressman and former CIA officer Hurd, were once considered moderates, or at least statesmen willing to weigh the evidence. Now even Hurd is excusing L’Affaire Ukraine, perhaps so he can preserve his own future opportunities within the GOP.

Trump has been mocked for declaring, as he did in a Monday tweet, that “The Republican Party has NEVER been so united!” The impeachment inquiry, he said of the GOP, is “bringing us even closer together!”

But given the public behavior of Republicans, Trump’s claims of unprecedented party unity appear correct. It’s hard to imagine a Republican Party of yesteryear excusing such inexcusable behavior, simply because the misbehaver is the party’s standard-bearer. (Even Richard M. Nixon lost his party’s support eventually.) Indeed, to be a Republican today is almost definitionally to be an Always Trumper. Any Republican who reveals himself to be merely a Sometimes Trumper, such as Rep. Justin Amash (I-Mich.), gets ejected from the party.

Similar dynamics are at play for Republican voters, too.

Conservatives who don’t approve of the president’s actions are — like Amash — simply leaving the party, with “Why I’m No Longer a Republican” cris de coeur fast becoming a hot new genre of nonfiction. Those who remain in the GOP pledge their absolute loyalty to their boss, especially voters who get their news from de-facto state media. In a recent PRRI survey, a majority (55 percent) of Republicans whose primary news source is Fox News say there is nothing Trump could do to lose their approval.

There are, of course, many reasons to worry about this kind of idolatry.

But the biggest risk is that the more unconditional love the Always Trumpers show, the more emboldened Trump becomes. And the more he escalates his democratic destruction.

Absolved for soliciting political interference from one country, in one presidential election, he asks it publicly of two countries in the next. Forgiven for politicizing law enforcement, he moves on to politicizing the military. Allowed to abuse one immigrant group, or undermine one federal agency, he adds others to his crosshairs.

Just imagine what he’ll do if not just GOP lawmakers but also the electorate affirms his behavior with four more years.

Well done, Always Trumpers. If Trump didn’t genuinely believe he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue before, you’ve convinced him he can now.

 

[johnnyAU 3,630]

13 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

The Republican Party is a joke. 

The Democratic Party is no better.  

[TitanTiger 20,472]

5 minutes ago, johnnyAU said:

The Democratic Party is no better.  

Well, they aren't declaring Obama to be a better president than Lincoln, so they got that going for them.

[SaturdayGT 719]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

Well, they aren't declaring Obama to be a better president than Lincoln, so they got that going for them.

Didnt they compare him to the messiah? Remember the school children they had singing religious songs and praises but omitting Jesus and replacing the name "Obama" ? 

[TitanTiger 20,472]

1 minute ago, SaturdayGT said:

Didnt they compare him to the messiah? Remember the school children they had singing religious songs and praises but omitting Jesus and replacing the name "Obama" ? 

Some did.  I don't recall it ever being a majority.

Regardless, this isn't about Republican Party dumbness as compared to other groups.  It's not "what about the Dems" time.  It's just Republican Party dumbness as compared to a fairly objective standard.  Anyone who thinks Trump is a better president than Lincoln would best serve the country they claim to love by sitting out all future elections.  It's single-digit IQ level stupidity.

[johnnyAU 3,630]

4 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

Well, they aren't declaring Obama to be a better president than Lincoln, so they got that going for them.

The majority of the Republican party doesn't think he's a better President than Lincoln. In fact, I've yet to meet anyone with that mindset to my knowledge. These idiotic polls are for clicks and message board fodder, and whoever actually believes it represents the majority of any significant group of people might be as dumb as they are. 

[TitanTiger 20,472]

17 minutes ago, johnnyAU said:

The majority of the Republican party doesn't think he's a better President than Lincoln. In fact, I've yet to meet anyone with that mindset to my knowledge. These idiotic polls are for clicks and message board fodder, and whoever actually believes it represents the majority of any significant group of people might be as dumb as they are. 

Ok. A respected polling firm with a good track record conducts a poll using statistically sound methodology but you don’t like how it makes your side look so you stick you fingers in your ears and holler to make it go away. 

Yelling ”fake news” might work for the lemmings that worship Trump, but if you’re going to assert shenanigans with this poll, then show some evidence. 

[SaltyTiger 7,793]

Still believe Reagan was the the better president. All is not lost.

https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/12/02/greatest-republican-president

[TitanTiger 20,472]

7 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Still believe Reagan was the the better president. All is not lost.

https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/12/02/greatest-republican-president

And yet there's still that hard core 41% who think he's even better than Reagan.

The GOP rank and file are suffering from brain rot.

[SaturdayGT 719]

Trumps base supporters are fired up coming off this impeachment stuff and going into an election year. .....Id say this poll is skewed pretty bad. 

[johnnyAU 3,630]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

Ok. A respected polling firm with a good track record conducts a poll using statistically sound methodology but you don’t like how it makes your side look so you stick you fingers in your ears and holler to make it go away. 

Yelling ”fake news” might work for the lemmings that worship Trump, but if you’re going to assert shenanigans with this poll, then show some evidence. 

Not "my side" sport.

How many folks do you know that actually think Trump is a better POTUS than Lincoln, vs how many do you think would fill out such a poll to see how the results irritate, or ignite the other side? I can't think of a single example who really believes Lincoln is second to Trump, but I sure as heck know some that would gladly do the latter. Heck, I might even do it for fun just to watch the ensuing shenanigans.  These days, the more ridiculous the subject, the more ridiculous the results...which is even more reason to post it and get clicks. I do know some folks who would believe just about anything they heard about the GOP and Trump...and vice versa regarding the Dems and (insert name here). It's the world we're in now. As polarizing as I've ever seen it.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Just now, johnnyAU said:

Not "my side" sport.

Then stop defending it with nonsense.

 

Just now, johnnyAU said:

How many folks do you know that actually think Trump is a better POTUS than Lincoln, vs how many do you think would fill out such a poll to see how the results irritate, or ignite the other side?

I can't think of a single example who really believes Lincoln is second to Trump, but I sure as heck know some that would gladly do the latter. Heck, I might even do it for fun just to watch the ensuing shenanigans.  These days, the more ridiculous the subject, the more ridiculous the results...which is even more reason to post it and get clicks. I do know some folks who would believe just about anything they heard about the GOP and Trump...and vice versa regarding the Dems and (insert name here). It's the world we're in now. As polarizing as I've ever seen it.

I don't know if you realize this, but anecdotes don't equal evidence.  It doesn't matter if you personally know anyone who thinks this way.  

The bottom line is this:  this polling firm is well respected and this wasn't some silly internet poll on Twitter.  It was conducted using proper statistical polling methodology and has a margin of error +/- 2.8 percentage points.  You really need to get out of this mindset that just because polls say something you don't want them to say, that polling doesn't work or is being hijacked somehow.  I mean sure, if you have some evidence of that happening here then I'm completely open to hearing it.  But if not, take the fake news silliness somewhere else.

[johnnyAU 3,630]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

Then stop defending it with nonsense.

 

I don't know if you realize this, but anecdotes don't equal evidence.  It doesn't matter if you personally know anyone who thinks this way.  

The bottom line is this:  this polling firm is well respected and this wasn't some silly internet poll on Twitter.  It was conducted using proper statistical polling methodology and has a margin of error +/- 2.8 percentage points.  You really need to get out of this mindset that just because polls say something you don't want them to say, that polling doesn't work or is being hijacked somehow.  I mean sure, if you have some evidence of that happening here then I'm completely open to hearing it.  But if not, take the fake news silliness somewhere else.

Answer the question. How many folks do you know that actually believe Trump is a better POTUS than Lincoln?  

I'm sure there are a few idiots that believe it. Nobody is defending them. 

There are a ton more who would say it, or fill out a questionaire, just for the effect. 

Believing the majority of any party believes something so insanely stupid might be the effect of your own confirmation bias, rather than reality. 

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Just now, johnnyAU said:

Answer the question. How many folks do you know that actually believe Trump is a better POTUS than Lincoln?  

I don't answer irrelevant questions.  

 

Just now, johnnyAU said:

I'm sure there are a few idiots that believe it. Nobody is defending them. 

There are a ton more who would say it, or fill out a questionaire, just for the effect. 

Believing the majority of any party believes something so insanely stupid might be the effect of your own confirmation bias, rather than reality. 

Like I say, if you have evidence this poll was hijacked or somehow manipulated, show it.  Otherwise, move along and let the grown ups talk.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

I don't think you really understand how this poll's methodology worked.  For one, they didn't just poll Republicans.  They polled Americans overall.  And the questions about Lincoln vs Trump, Reagan vs Trump weren't the only questions they asked.  It was part of their overall tracking poll asking things on favorability ratings for various politicians, opinions on impeachment, views on the direction the country is heading and so on.  And then Trump was compared to several prominent Republican presidents - Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford, Lincoln, George H.W. Bush, George W. Bush, Reagan.  They tabulated the results among all and then split it out by demographic groups.

To think that somehow a randomly selected group of people coordinated enough, even by accident, on this daily poll to skew the results on that question takes the kind of blind faith that we haven't seen in generations.  Just stop.

[johnnyAU 3,630]

14 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I don't answer irrelevant questions.  

 

Like I say, if you have evidence this poll was hijacked or somehow manipulated, show it.  Otherwise, move along and let the grown ups talk.

You don't answer questions you don't wish to answer.  Typical of arrogant pseudo intellectuals as is your final comment.

I didn't insinuate the poll was hijacked. I don't believe the result reflects reality. I believe it reflects the desire to be combative, rather than be honest.  

[homersapien 11,367]

47 minutes ago, johnnyAU said:

You don't answer questions you don't wish to answer.  Typical of arrogant pseudo intellectuals as is your final comment.

I didn't insinuate the poll was hijacked. I don't believe the result reflects reality. I believe it reflects the desire to be combative, rather than be honest.  

Arrogant?  

This, coming from someone who refuses to present any evidence for their claim. (because they don't have any) and instead, stands solely on their "belief"?

What irony.