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There are generally five classes. That’s not true currently with the super seniors (sixth year guys). That skews the numbers and has helped both Gus and Harsin paper over their failures. Troxell, Council, and Jackson should be gone by now under any normal metric. If you want to accurately analyze Gus’ OL recruiting, those guys should be out because they were signed in the 2016 and 2017 classes (I.e., six and seven years ago, which is outside the NCAA’s five-year eligibility window). Even counting Manning, the correct number is nine in three years. That’s awful. And if we’re going “SEC quality offensive linemen” as the metric, I’m not positive we can comfortably include guys like Irvin, Jernigan, or even Coffey who have yet to play meaningful downs. Two of those guys are seniors. Jernigan is still young. In terms of SEC-quality guys (meaning guys who can play in the SEC) over the three classes that would usually make up a roster, Gus is somewhere between seven and nine… one of which plays at Kentucky. On the Auburn roster, he’s between 2 and 2.67 per year. Add in Harsin’s disaster last signing class (especially), and that’s the recipe for our lack of depth/quality. Imagine this OL without Trox and Council…

You know what, @Mikey, now that you explain it I see that Gus built a machine of an offensive line. I don't know why I didn't realize that when the OL sucked in 2018 and got Stidham killed or when they were holding us back in 2019 or when they were a liability in 2020. I mean, this is a team that's had two offensive linemen drafted in four years (only one of which was a high school signee), but I see now that Gus had that room humming. The numbers were perfect. The desperate annual search for grad transfers to plug obvious holes was really just the plan all along. Gus was just playing chess, and I couldn't see it. Give. Me. A. Break. The offensive line has been mediocre since 2017, and it wasn't great before that. Gus doesn't know his ass from his elbow in terms of offensive linemen. This is the same coach who annually claimed Braden Smith was a Guard but was forced to play out of position at RT out of need. That guy? He started from the Colts at RT as a rookie and hasn't given the spot up in four years since. If we had a coach who knew the offensive line, we would've actually played him in his natural position AT TACKLE his entire career. Here's the deal. Google has a hiring theory that you have to only let your best people make hiring decisions because, as they put it, A's hire A's; B's hire B's; C's hire C's. Most people overrate their own ability so they don't see themselves as a C, but we tend to gravitate toward people similar to ourselves. Gus hired JB Grimes, Herb Hand, and Jack Bicknell. It's unfair to Jack to get lumped in with the other two, but that list pretty well speaks for itself. C's hire C's. Mediocrity gravitates to mediocrity.

A team is made (generally) of five signing classes: Fr, RFr, So, Jr, Sr I don’t care what metric you use, leaving 11 guys in the So-Sr classes is not “a lot.” It’s manageable, but it’s not like he left a bunch of guys that meant we had no worries for two years. The other issue you’ve dodged is the fact that none of those guys are amazing. He left an adequate number of decent (but not good) offensive linemen in the upper classes. As I’ve said (and other have said), Harsin’s failure to sign more than three guys in two years is his failing. But Gus left a mediocre mess and a room with a culture of mediocrity baked in for years and years.

I didn't count walk-ons, but I did count Brahms, which is wrong. I guess we can debate whether Langlo, who signed in December but had a new coach before signing day and could've backed out of his NLI, counts toward the guy who wasn't the coach when he reported or for the coach for which he's played every second of his career. I count every guy in the 2021 signing class toward the coach they actually played for... from the first second of their careers. You may not. And pointing out that every guy who has played was a Gus signee goes back to my earlier point. That's completely expected. The alternative would have been to find an absolute stud HS signee and/or transfers. Those are the only guys Harsin could've signed to push these guys out of their spots, and if that's what you're relying on to improve your OL, you're in a really bad spot. Gus left us in a position where the OL is fine but not good, and absent something completely extraordinary, it takes three years to reshape an OL room. Older guys are expected to hold down the jobs. On the OL more than any other spot, if you're playing multiple young guys, it's because you suck. For us, because Harsin has failed to recruit the position well, three years to reshape the room won't be enough. It'll take at least two more classes to get it up to the level we need, and that's optimistic. Gus left a mess. Harsin has failed to improve it or clean it up.

Not all that bad is kinda the problem. They aren’t good either. Btw, I count 15 on the roster and 3 Harsin signees (Langlo, Smith, and Harris).

They're both failures on this front. Part of Harsin's current problem ab-so-lutely rests with Gus and his inability to recruit competently on the OL. Part of the same problem rests with Harsin's inability to recruit on the OL as well. Personally, I'd say the former issue is greater than the latter. Very few OL recruits start as true or even RS freshmen. In order to improve the current OL, Harsin needed to land STUDS and/or transfers. He did neither. But the only reason he needed to land STUDS and/or transfers is because of Gus. From what I've seen, Kam Stutts has grown leaps and bounds under Harsin/Friend, but honestly, he hasn't been very good in the first two games. Functional but not good. That's basically a summary of the entire offensive line. Harsin was asked to change that, and he hasn't. That's a major problem. Gus is the one that depleted the unit though. He deserves a lot of blame for the mediocrity that has become the Auburn Offensive Line. He and his staff ran it into a completely mediocre operation, AND they depleted the numbers. Even if Harsin (or the next coach) knocks OL recruiting out of the park, it'll take three seasons of lights out recruiting to change the culture of that room.

@bigbird, you're telling me Harsin is exactly as inept as Gus at signing Offensive Linemen in his first two seasons? Goooooood GRIEF! That's the biggest indictment of Harsin that I've seen since he started. Heck, I'd be more willing to deal with a extra-marital dalliance (which didn't happen and was very unfair to both Harsin and the slandered young lady) than to deal with the EXACT SAME PROBLEM from the prior regime!! At least bad behavior would be a new issue! This sucks.

I think you're under the wrong impression about how often we played top teams under Tuberville. The WEST was better under Gus. No question, but our schedule wasn't wildly different in terms of games against top ten teams. Under Tuberville, we averaged 2.9 games per season against the top ten. We won an ASTOUNDING 52% of those games (15-14). Under Gus, we average 3.5 such games. We won a pathetic 29% of those games (8-20). The gap between wins and losses under either guy isn't because one guy was piling up wins over nobodies while the other guy had to play murderer's row. One major reason for the gap between the two is Tuberville could win those games and, with the exception of a home Iron Bowl, Gus couldn't win those games. In his 8 years, he played one fewer top ten game than Tuberville played in his 10 years, but Gus had 8 fewer wins. Still, it's completely wrong to suggest that Tuberville had it easy. He played more top ten teams per year than any Auburn coach in history until Gus. For every two seasons, Gus had one extra top ten game. That's it. One game for every two seasons. I remain baffled at anyone who tries to claim Gus' run is comparable to Tuberville's

If Tubs was 4 games better, that might matter. It wasn’t close. And again, I don’t think you want to compare records against top ranked teams either. It’s also not going to look good for Gus.

Last thing on the Gus ≠ Tuberville thing. Tuberville was 85-40 in ten years at Auburn. Gustav was 68-35 in eight years. To match Tuberville, Gus needed to go 17-5 over his next 22 games. Needless to say, that did not appear to be on the horizon for Auburn.

I find that asinine. Honestly. Gus had a flash in the pan first season that was unsustainable because he's a mediocre coach. After Year One, he never posted another season with fewer than four losses. Contrast that with Tuberville, who built a program. The stretch we had from 2004-2007 is obviously unparalleled in Gus' career. We won 33 games in three years, and 42 games in four seasons. We lost three SEC games in three seasons and six in four years. That comes in Years Six through Nine. Heck, the 2000 and 2002 seasons would have been the second best seasons of Gus' tenure. Also, I would add that, yes, Bama being down mattered to his run. Still, Gus didn't have to deal with Urban Meyer or Steve Spurrier at Florida, and it's not true that Tuberville didn't have to deal with Saban. He just had him at LSU (as opposed to Ed Orgeron). Tuberville went 4-3 against Saban coached teams. I don't think Tuberville was an all-time great, but saying there's no difference between his work and Gustav's is just wrong.

Fair enough. I bet the list looks/feels differently by the end of this season.

I’ll respectfully disagree. If you can’t see the difference in player development or sustained success, no one will ever convince you otherwise.

I'd also flag this bit of info: Oregon was #9 on that list. Two of their top four guys in that class were Jayson Jones and Robby Ashford... they're currently playing at Auburn. It just feels like jumping the gun to talk about whether a class developed or contributed when you're halfway through their time. Almost every Tuberville class would've looked like crap by that metric.

Still too early to evaluate that class. Frankly, that's jumping the gun. I look at that list and see obvious successes: Tank, Zierer, and Council. No questions asked on those three. I see multiple guys that look like obvious successes: Jet, Riley, and Tate. Those guys look like multi-year starters in the making. They're starting as Juniors/RS Sophomores despite the fact that one of them (Jet) is the youngest guy in the class after reclassifying. You have some multi-year contributors (like Burks) who won't be starters, and we have a group of guys who still have a high ceiling like Wright, Frazier, and Capers. Very much TBD on those three. At Auburn, we didn't utilize a few guys like I hoped we would (Tennison, Pegues... who looked great in his first start at Ole Miss, Height, and Canion). Those guys looked like they were on their way to being really good players for Auburn before they left. Lots of misevaluations. I'll agree with that, but it's not true that guys didn't develop. Zierer is better. Riley is a different dude entirely. Tate Johnson has grown up. Hell, even JJ Pegues developed in his time at Auburn (even it was just picking the right position). Also, I'd say it's a bit unfair to include guys like Nick Curtis and Caylin Newton. Unless I'm mistaken, those guys were walk-ons.

Rod Hood got paid by the Cardinals too. Worked his butt off at Auburn and in Philly to earn it. Played in a Super Bowl too I believe.

Yeah, that seems like it has the possibility of being a big deal given the youth on the rest of our pitching staff.

I take back what I said about Kess being Minnesota's best rim protector. Guess he's part of a full-on rebuild in Salt Lake. Optimistically, there will be plenty of minutes available in Utah! Gotta think Mitchell is on his way out of SLC as well.

Davison isn't going to have to worry about Boston. He's gonna be in the G League next year. He's not taking Peyton Pritchard's job, and he can't space the floor or have the size to play 2-guard. He has the talent work out long-term, but he's not going to help that team next year. They'll get him minutes in the G League. As for Walker, it's a good situation as a back-up big on a competitive, young team. Pat Beverley is a clown, but I fully expect Kess to push Greg Monroe out and to give them better defensive options than Naz Reid. Kess is their best rim protector from day one. As for Orlando, the point with the Magic is that I don't believe for one second that they actually know who their foundational guys are. Setting floor spacing aside for a second, Jabari had the most defensive flexibility of the top options. As it stands, they have almost no path to getting their best forwards on the floor together without hemorrhaging points on the defensive end. Isaac, Wagner (the younger), and Banchero cannot defend together. Back on the offensive end, I don't think they can space the floor enough . That's especially true if you pair the three above with your top pick from last year (Suggs sports a tidy 21% 3pt percentage) and from 2020 (Anthony is a sharp-shooter by comparison with a 33% career 3pt percentage). It's a mess of a franchise that has made the playoffs twice (as the 7th and 8th seed) twice in the last decade and hasn't made it out of the first round since Dwight Howard won his second of three consecutive DPOY awards. They haven't had a plan since Howard's trade demand. Jabari landed in a much better situation.

I said months ago, before the lottery that the Magic were a joke of a franchise that I hoped Jabari avoided. I hate that he didn’t go 1 because that would’ve been cool, but I’m glad he isn’t in that train wreck. They have no plan. Bachero, Wagner, Isaac, Carter, and Okeke all play basically the same two positions. None are good enough defensively to play the 3. Suggs looked awful last year. Anthony is a backup, and Fultz is a sixth man at best. Jabari landed in a better spot.

That handicap ends soon. The NCAA is going to lift the scholarship limits in partial scholarship sports. That’s going to happen just a matter of when.

Helluva lot more to like about this year than any loss can take away. Great, great season. Ending the CWS win drought was a MONSTER step for the program. Can’t think about winning it without winning a game in Omaha for 25 years. Huge step. And Burkhalter joined Sonny a damn legend on the Plains.

No offense, but this was a hell of a lot more than a “nice season.” Unless you’re just trying to be funny like Golf, which I don’t think. I really hate the mentality that every season is championship or “bridesmaid.” This year was incredible. And fun.

Ha! You beat me to the analogy!

Waving the white flag now. Hate that this group is gonna end a truly great season with a blow out. But I suppose that’s very Auburn basketball of them! 😉