Didba

There is a difference in occupation/reconstruction and outright capitulation at all costs. it seems capitulation is the choice.

Hamas doesn’t want peace. I’m pretty sure there are plenty of non-Hamas Palestinians that want peace.

The answer was “in a perfect world” kinda thing. I agree 100%.

That's actually pretty fair. That comparison isn't accurate, at least not where things are now. Hopefully, it continues to be inaccurate.

I appreciate this measured response, as for your question: Taking down Hamas like the US took down Bin Laden hopefully with less torturing of prisoners. Though if I had to pick the lesser of two evils for Israel to eradicate Hamas, I'd pick the war crimes against Hamas prisoners over war crimes against Palestinian civvies. Disgusting to even say it.

Did you even look up the LePens to see my point about how the MAGA style campaigning has been around "forever" in Europe as far right politics?

Why would I and why should I? I could see your point in asking me that question if I was actively defending Hamas in this thread but I am not. The answer being yes, no or I don't know, doesn't change anything I have said in this thread. Hamas committing war crimes against Israeli civilians is atrocious. Israel retaliating with more war crimes against Palestinians civilians is also horrible. There is no argument or discussion to win here. Two wrongs don't make a right, your question's whole point was basically "Israel's war crimes aren't as bad because they aren't chopping the heads off of babies." Its flawed logic at best, at worst its willfully being okay with war crimes being committed against Palestinian children because their side are bad guys and I don't think you are willfully being okay with it. I think you just see me having a different opinion and want to try and contradict it when my point has been war crimes are bad no matter who commits them, I condemn any side who willingly commits them.

MAGA’s ilk has been extreme right for a while. They just weren’t mainstream with a winning candidate. Trump brought them to the forefront of the GOP. A good example is France’s LePen and her Father. They were doing MAGA in France when Trump was still doing reality TV and identified as a democrat. I wasn’t aware universal healthcare, forgiving student debt, and social rights defy logic to become law. Lot of countries defying logic these days I guess.

*in America. You nailed it.

Hey, thats a great song! I’ve seen Steely Dan twice. Glad to see a fan of the Dan. Didn’t know it had so many versions, thanks!

Well keep on, keeping on

I’m not defending Hamas, nor have I in this entire thread. I’m condemning both sides, which I’ve stated multiple times.

Sure am! Thanks for keeping tabs, bud!

Hell yeah, cheer on those war crimes committed back and forth! More war and violence against civilians on both sides!

It’s pretty well documented. I didn’t know any of this stuff until last night. Just a quick read on amnesty international, the human rights watch and the multiple UN investigations into the various conflicts are eye opening. There is a lot of bad on both sides and a whole lot of innocent civilians are being victims of war crimes. Which is why my original statement condemned both.

Except the Israelis were still using human shields and white phosphorous in 2009. Look it doesn’t matter how the war was started. War crimes are war crimes my man. the decisions to use white phosphorous and human shields aren’t one off war crazed soldiers.

Dude, there has been multiple occurrences that have happened since 1948. So no I didn’t have to go back 75 years. That’s just the first documented occurrence of war crimes. Just check out the links.

What do you mean 75 years? There are war crimes cited that were carried out in the last twenty years including the torture and rape of prisoners by US soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. I don’t think there is a difference murder and rape is murder and rape, whether it is committed by military or terrorists I’m not defending Hamas. Nor did I ever. I’m just condemning murder and rape whenever it is committed as war crimes.

As I said in my original post: One can condemn the history of apartheid oppression and war crimes on the part of Israeli government/military while also condemning Hamas terrorism.

The suggestion to walk in their shoes appeared to be excusing their militaries war crimes, for instance: “experience what they have and you might not be able to resist committing a couple war crimes here and there.” I clearly misunderstood and see that’s it’s not the case. I am glad I misunderstood because otherwise yeeeesh.

Why did you even need a comeback? This is such a weird response to a statement of fact.

This wouldn’t be the first time they committed war crimes in Gaza.

See the Nazis in Germany and the German people who didn’t have any choice. Not all Germans supported the Nazis. It’s the same with Hamas.

You may want to look into the various massacres/mass rapes that occurred at the hands of Israeli forces since 1948. Also, you could do the same for US troops in Vietnam and Iraq to an even worse degree. It happens in war unfortunately whether the populace condones it or not. here is some NSFW reading on the matter: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_war_crimes_against_Israel https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Fact_Finding_Mission_on_the_Gaza_Conflict https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse

I thought you were talking about the term religious fundamentalist as tied to conservative middle eastern governments/muslim extremist. We had our wires crossed on which labels we were referring too. Alt right first received mainstream use after Trump’s election to describe his base fractioning away from what had been the status quo of the GOP. As for the Squad, they wouldn’t be labeled alt right, you were correct that alt left would be an outsider’s label for them, just as alt-right is used for Trump’s base