Analysis and definition of the so called horse collar tackle

[ClawAndTalon 0]

I didnt read all of the comments but watch the play again...it was not a horse collar because Manziel was taken down by being wrapped up so to speak. He was not taken down by just the collar...the defender also had his other arm around him. This by definition is a clean tackle. Horse collar can only be called if he is tackled just by the collar which was not the case.

If one just goes by the RAW, I can only find the immediacy factor being the reason for the no-call. In other words, the ball carrier being grappled at the 35 yard line by the collar/pads/jersey, and bought down immediately at the 35 yard line. Also, after viewing the tackle, it appears that he grabbed the arm only as he made contact with the ground.

If I were to venture outside the RAW, I'd say that QBJM also had a visual of the tackler until the last split second, and this might have also mattered. But, this is my own personal take away.

[VAtiger12 112]

I think it's amazing that Kris Frost was able to track him down. I don't know if it was the injury or fatigue or what but I would think in most any other situation that Manziel would not be caught from behind when scrambling.

I think that is what is being lost in this whole thing, I really thought he had no chance and he just used adrenaline to catch up to him on the edge. Great work from the linebacker.

[Weegle777 78]

And there you have it! No missed horsecollar call!

Jim Daopoulos (@RefereeJimD) tweeted at 7:53 PM on Mon, Sep 30, 2013:

No, that wasn't a horse-collar since they grabbed the QB's jersey and did not get inside his collar when tackling!

(

)

[3rdgeneration 6,471]

And there you have it! No missed horsecollar call!

Jim Daopoulos (@RefereeJimD) tweeted at 7:53 PM on Mon, Sep 30, 2013:

No, that wasn't a horse-collar since they grabbed the QB's jersey and did not get inside his collar when tackling!

(https://twitter.com/...843583934988289)

:bananadance: :bananadance: :bananadance: :bananadance: :bananadance: :bananadance: :bananadance: :bananadance: :bananadance: Nananana-booboo! Now can we quit this discussion? After we advertise this tweet to the world, of course! Oh wait, this guy is a legitimate ref, isn't he? Not just some ref for your kid's peewee team?

[Weegle777 78]

Said he was an 11 yr. NFL ref. Kkolumbo retweeted it so hopefully he is!

[SCBusPilot 72]

Please forgive me for continuing to beat this long-dead horse, but I found something pertinent on another board that gives much more insight on this particular play than the actual rule-book wording:

"The Rule:
"Horse Collar Tackle
ARTICLE 15. All players are prohibited from grabbing the inside back collar of
the shoulder pads or jersey, or the inside collar of the side of the shoulder pads
or jersey, and immediately pulling the ball carrier down. This does not apply
to a ball carrier, including a potential passer, who is inside the tackle box (Rule
2-34). Note that the tackle box disintegrates when the ball leaves it."

When the rule was passed, the NCAA's Rogers Redding commented on the rule when it passed by saying:
"If the ball carrier is grabbed by the shoulder or jersey and just ridden to the ground over a couple of yards, that's not going to be a foul." http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=3544920

This is consistent with the rules interpretation:
As ball carrier A20 races down field near the sideline, defender B56
grabs him from behind by the back of the jersey at the collar or by the
collar of his shoulder pad. B56 continues with this contact for several
yards but A20 does not go to the ground until tackled by another
defender. RULING: Legal play. B56 did not foul because he did not
immediately pull A20 down."

I felt that, for completeness of this thread (and in case it happens again this season), the above link should be included.  Enjoy, and don't shoot the messenger!

[Auctoritas 2,828]

Good find!

[cehuff21 0]

I have NEVER watched a game where a team got away with so many blatant holds! It was ridiculous!

You've obviously never watched a bama game.

[tiger88 934]

<p>Please forgive me for continuing to beat this long-dead horse, but I found something pertinent on another board that gives much more insight on this particular play than the actual rule-book wording:

"The Rule:

"Horse Collar Tackle

ARTICLE 15. All players are prohibited from grabbing the inside back collar of

the shoulder pads or jersey, or the inside collar of the side of the shoulder pads

or jersey, and immediately pulling the ball carrier down. This does not apply

to a ball carrier, including a potential passer, who is inside the tackle box (Rule

2-34). Note that the tackle box disintegrates when the ball leaves it."

When the rule was passed, the NCAA's Rogers Redding commented on the rule when it passed by saying:

"If the ball carrier is grabbed by the shoulder or jersey and just ridden to the ground over a couple of yards, that's not going to be a foul." <a href="http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3544920" class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=3544920</a>

This is consistent with the rules interpretation:

As ball carrier A20 races down field near the sideline, defender B56

grabs him from behind by the back of the jersey at the collar or by the

collar of his shoulder pad. B56 continues with this contact for several

yards but A20 does not go to the ground until tackled by another

defender. RULING: Legal play. B56 did not foul because he did not

immediately pull A20 down."

I felt that, for completeness of this thread (and in case it happens again this season), the above link should be included.  Enjoy, and don't shoot the messenger!</p>

Exactly. This was not the kind of tackle the rule was designed to stop. It was close, but not a horse collar.

You'll always have some Johnny Rulebooks out there who misinterpret things. I applaud the ref for using his head and making the right call.

[Stripe 5]

20 Aug 2008...thats some serious digging. Great find, and this should put this to rest as to why it wasn't a penalty.

Johnny Signature was not snapped back to the ground, but more or less road down/pulled down over a few yards and seconds. by the back of the jersey between the shoulderblades and the arm. Not the inside of the pads or jersey.

Great nocall by the refs.

[alexava 6,973]

Go back and read my post days ago. I said the same damn thing, he had the BACK of the jersey.

[tiger88 934]

Even if he had the collar it doesn't change the no call.

[WDavE 332]

I don't remember the year, but one year under CTT while getting prepared for the Iron Bowl. The scout team was allowed to hold in practice so we could be use to in the game. It must have worked because we won.

[Auctoritas 2,828]

I don't remember the year, but one year under CTT while getting prepared for the Iron Bowl. The scout team was allowed to hold in practice so we could be use to in the game. It must have worked because we won.

Actually, I like that idea a lot. What better way to train up your pass rushers than by literally having no holds barred? Sort of like putting a weight on your bat to make you swing faster when you take it off.

[autan 753]

True there were many no-calls throughout the game as in any game, maybe a few more in this one. But the ones at the end of the game always get all the attention, just like Basketball foul no-alls. If they call the horse collar it can't be overturned with all the slo-mo and rule interpretation we've seen in last few days. And Aggies would have 1st and goal around 7? yard line with a couple of timeouts. My money would then be on JF, so it was most definitely a critical call to be made withn a split second decision. I wouldn't want to be the official to have to make that call.

[JFDTiger80 791]

True there were many no-calls throughout the game as in any game, maybe a few more in this one. But the ones at the end of the game always get all the attention, just like Basketball foul no-alls. If they call the horse collar it can't be overturned with all the slo-mo and rule interpretation we've seen in last few days. And Aggies would have 1st and goal around 7? yard line with a couple of timeouts. My money would then be on JF, so it was most definitely a critical call to be made withn a split second decision. I wouldn't want to be the official to have to make that call.

This is true.