Voter Fraud----April 23 Reports

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Nine pages and counting in a thread on voter fraud. it doesn't take that much time to get an ID. Some folks seem really disturbed by the thought of requiring an ID to vote and seem to make all sorts of excuses not to require one. I've yet to see a good reason not to have one. Suppose there is absolutely zero fraud..... why is it bad to require an ID when one is already required for so many other things?

[homersapien 11,388]

Nine pages and counting in a thread on voter fraud. it doesn't take that much time to get an ID. Some folks seem really disturbed by the thought of requiring an ID to vote and seem to make all sorts of excuses not to require one. I've yet to see a good reason not to have one. Suppose there is absolutely zero fraud..... why is it bad to require an ID when one is already required for so many other things?

And I've yet to see a good reason why we need one.

http://ivn.us/2014/0...ainst-voter-id/

On January 16, Gene Berardelli wrote an article for IVN titled, “Hard evidence supports the need for Voter ID laws.” While this is a common argument among proponents of voter ID, the existence of hard evidence necessitating the need for voter ID is a questionable proposition at best.

In big letters, Mr. Berardelli’s article screams, “Voter Fraud is Real.” Voter fraud is real –– much like getting struck by lightning is, or winning the Powerball Lottery, or getting killed by a falling icicle, or your kid (god forbid) becoming a congressman. Proponents of voter ID know this and willingly admit it.

The article links to a story reported by North Carolina’s Channel 3 News which says that of the 7 million ballots cast in the 2012 elections in the state, there were only 121 (or 0.00174%) alleged cases of voter fraud that were referred to district attorneys. In 2010, 3.8 million ballots were cast and a barely noticeable 28 cases were turned over to district attorneys. These numbers are replicated in every state.

Still, the widely reported (and reconfirmed) statistical non-existence of voter fraud cases doesn’t stop voter ID law proponents. Ultimately, they never seriously argue that voter fraud is a common practice that is widespread and a threat to country, flag, and mom’s apple pie. It’s cognitive dissonance dressed up as conspiracy theory.

Proponents abruptly change their argument and claim that the possibility of widespread voter fraud is real. The publicity-stunt muckraker James O’Keefe, mentioned in Berardelli’s article, became infamous for walking in to a Washington, D.C. polling station and posing as Attorney General Eric Holder. He provided Holder’s name and home address and was subsequently offered a ballot to vote. Of course, he did not actually take the ballot and fill it out because – drum roll – it’s illegal and can lead to severe penalties.

"Voter fraud is real -- much like getting struck by lightning is or winning the Powerball."

@ JAlvarez1189

Yes, the possibility of voter fraud is real like just about anything else. It’s possible that I could go to a 7-11, stuff a Snickers into my pocket and try to walk out without paying — except I won’t because (besides being immoral), if I’m caught, the penalty for stealing the candy far outweighs whatever gratification it may offer me.

Actual cases of voter fraud are individual, isolated cases usually involving confused voters and election officials. The vast majority of voter fraud cases are a result of human error: accidentally voting twice, filling out a ballot in the wrong precinct, elections officials accidentally allowing a convict to vote, and — the most common — incorrectly filling out an absentee ballot, which voter ID laws would do nothing to prevent.

'Voter fraud' is a broad, vague term to the point that it’s almost meaningless.When voter ID proponents use the term, they try to bring up images of massive conspiracies by partisan voters (i.e. Democrats) to stuff ballot boxes and steal elections. However, evocations of Boss Tweed and the notorious Tammany Hall political machine are laughably irrelevant. The Tammany Hall era was a dark time in American history, which has long since disappeared and has never re-emerged.

Tweed and other urban political bosses were able to do the things they did because America had not yet adoptedthe secret ballot, standardized government-issued ballots, and voting booths. Voters were provided already-filled ballots by party henchmen. The ballot box was left out in the open so these henchmen could make sure that voters were voting “the right way.”

Obviously, this kind of thing no longer happens, and, fortunately, it would be impossible for it to happen today. Since 2000, there have only been 10 cases of in-person voter fraud.

In short, allegations of widespread voter fraud belong in the same dustbin as teaching creationism in public schools and denial of global warming. Actually, if proponents of voter ID are so concerned about the integrity of our voting system, they would provide a much better service directing their energies to investigating electronic voting machines, which may have already altered at least one election.

"Since 2000, there have only been 10 cases of in-person voter fraud. "

@ JAlvarez1189

So, what is the real reason voter ID laws are desired? It’s not a coincidence that passing Voter ID laws is a major part of the conservative Republican Party platform. Neither is it a coincidence that the citizens who are most likely to not possess a photo ID or proof of citizenship are poor, black, and female urbanites. A full 25 percent of African-Americans do not possess adequate ID, and, contrary to an all too popular belief, it is not for lack of trying. Acquiring an ID requires time and money, precisely the two things poor urban minorities do not have.

So it is utterly unsurprising when, for example, Wisconsin passes a voter ID law and Republican Governor Scott Walker’s administration promptly closes around ten DMVs located near urban centers with large populations of poor minorities. Or, when South Carolina State Representative Alan Clemmons handed out peanuts with notes attached saying, “Stop Obama’s nutty agenda and support voter ID.” Or in 2012, when Pennsylvania’s House Majority Leader said that the state’s passage of its voter ID law will

Many proponents of voter ID are not bigots. They honestly believes voter fraud is a serious problem (or that it can be a serious problem). Unfortunately, it seems this belief stems from flimsy talking points which act as propaganda for a much less honorable pursuit.

[homersapien 11,388]

Research Backs Up Voter Suppression Claims, But Media Stay In False-Balance Mode

http://mediamatters....aims-but/189823

.......But Evidence Is Growing That Voter ID Laws Lead To Vote Suppression ...

Federal Court: Texas Voter ID Law Discriminates Against African American And Hispanics. A federal court recently found that Texas' voter ID law violated the Voting Rights Act because it will make it harder for African Americans and Hispanics to vote. The court stated:

[The] evidence conclusively shows that the implicit costs of obtaining [Texas state law] SB 14-qualifying ID will fall most heavily on the poor and that a disproportionately high percentage of African Americans and Hispanics in Texas live in poverty. We therefore conclude that SB 14 is likely to lead to "retrogression in the position of racial minorities with respect to their effective exercise of the electoral franchise." [

Texas v. Holder

,

8/30/12

]

PA State Election Data: Hundreds Of Thousands Lack State Photo ID Cards. A July 5 Philadelphia Inquirer article reported that 758,000 registered voters in Pennsylvania do not have the ID a new state law requires to vote, and that this could stop them from voting. From the article:

More than 758,000 registered voters in Pennsylvania do not have photo identification cards from the state Transportation Department, putting their voting rights at risk in the November election, according to data released Tuesday by state election officials.

The figures -- representing 9.2 percent of the state's 8.2 million voters -- are significantly higher than prior estimates by the Corbett administration. Secretary of the Commonwealth Carol Aichele has repeatedly said that 99 percent of Pennsylvania's voters already had the photo ID they will need at the polls in November.

The new numbers, based on a comparison of voter registration rolls with PennDot ID databases, shows the potential problem is much bigger, particularly in Philadelphia, where 186,830 registered voters - 18 percent of the city's total registration - do not have PennDot ID.

Under Pennsylvania's new voter ID law, various other forms of photo identification will be accepted at voting places in November, including U.S. passports, student identification cards with expiration dates, current military identification, and ID cards issued to government employees.

But for most voters, the Pennsylvania driver's license is the standard photo ID. The disclosure that 9 percent of the state's registered voters don't have one - or an alternative, nondriver PennDot photo ID - provides a clearer picture of the hurdle set up by the state's new voter ID requirement. [

The Philadelphia Inquirer

,

7/5/12

]

PoliticsPA: GOP House Majority Leader Turzai Admitted Voter ID Law Is "Gonna Allow Governor Romney To Win" Pennsylvania. A June 25 PoliticsPA blog post quoted a speech that GOP State House Majority Leader Mike Turazi (R-Allegheny) delivered at the previous weekends' Republican State Committee meeting. In the speech, Turazi claimed the GOP-led legislature had gotten a voter ID law passed that "is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania." From the post:

House Majority Leader Mike Turzai (R-Allegheny) suggested that the House's end game in passing the Voter ID law was to benefit the GOP politically.

"We are focused on making sure that we meet our obligations that we've talked about for years," said Turzai in a speech to committee members Saturday. He mentioned the law among a laundry list of accomplishments made by the GOP-run legislature.

"Pro-Second Amendment? The Castle Doctrine, it's done. First pro-life legislation -- abortion facility regulations -- in 22 years, done. Voter ID, which is gonna allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done."

The statement drew a loud round of applause from the audience. It also struck a nerve among critics, who called it an admission that they passed the bill to make it harder for Democrats to vote -- and not to prevent voter fraud as the legislators claimed. [PoliticsPA,

6/25/12

]

DOJ: South Carolina's Data Indicate Minority Registered Voters "Nearly 20% More Likely To Lack DMV-Issued ID Than White Registered Voters." In a letter to South Carolina Assistant Deputy Attorney General C. Havird Jones Jr. regarding a voter ID law in that state, U.S. Assistant Attorney General Thomas E. Perez wrote::

In assessing the impact of the proposed photo identification requirements in section 5 of Act R54, we turn first to the data that the state has provided concerning registered voters within the state. The most recent voter registration data available from the State Election Commission indicate that, as of October 1, 2011, there were a total of 2,701,843 registered voters in the state, of whom 69.6% were white and 30.4% were non-white. These data also show that of the total number of registered voters in the state, 239,333 (or 8.9%) did not possess DMV-issued photo identification (either a driver's license or a non-driver's photo ID card) that would satisfy the requirements under Act R54. When disaggregated by race, the state's data show that 8.4% of white registered voters lacked any form of DMV-issued ID, as compared to 10.0% of non-white registered voters.

In other words, according to the state's data, which compare the available data in the state's voter registration database with the available data in the state's DMV database, minority registered voters were nearly 20% more likely to lack DMV-issued ID than white registered voters, and thus to be

effectively disenfranchised by Act R54's new requirements.

We note that the voter registration data matched against the DMV database, and provided to us by the state, does not include several categories of existing registered voters listed as inactive voters, and hence, the number of registered voters without DMV-issued ID may well be higher than even these numbers suggest.

Put differently, although non-white voters comprised 30.4% of the state's registered voters, they constituted 34.2% of registered voters who did not have the requisite DMV-issued identification to vote.

Non-white voters were therefore disproportionately represented, to a significant degree, in the group of registered voters who, under the proposed law, would be rendered ineligible to go to the polls and participate in the election.

[Department of Justice letter to South Carolina,

12/23/11

, emphasis added]

Brennan Center for Justice: Early Voting Restrictions Most Heavily Disrupts Minority Voting. The Brennan Center for Justice noted that ending early voting on Sundays disproportionately restricts the African American and Hispanic vote:

New restrictions on early voting will also have their biggest impact on people of color. Opponents of these restrictions have been particularly angered by the efforts to eliminate Sunday early voting, which they see as explicitly targeting African-American voters. Florida eliminated early voting on the last Sunday before Election Day, and Ohio has eliminated early voting on Sundays entirely. There is substantial statistical and anecdotal evidence that African Americans (and to a lesser extent Hispanics) vote on Sundays in proportionately far greater numbers than whites. [brennan Center for Justice, accessed

9/10/12

]

... And That Voter Fraud Of The Kind Voter ID Laws Would Counter Is Virtually Non-Existent

In-Person Voter Impersonation Fraud Is "The Only Kind Of Fraud" That Voter ID Laws Protect Against.As election law expert Rick Hasen has pointed out: "The only kind of fraud [voter] ID laws prevent is impersonation: a person registered under a false name or claiming to be someone else on the voter rolls." [TheNew York Times, 8/5/12]

Examples Of In-Person Voter Impersonation Fraud Are Infinitesimal. An analysis of more than 2,000 cases of alleged election fraud over the past dozen years conducted by News21, a Carnegie-Knight investigative reporting project, found only 10 cases of alleged in-person voter impersonation since 2000. From The Washington Post:

A new nationwide analysis of more than 2,000 cases of alleged election fraud over the past dozen years shows that in-person voter impersonation on Election Day, which has prompted 37 state legislatures to enact or consider tougher voter ID laws, was virtually nonexistent.

The analysis of 2,068 reported fraud cases by News21, a Carnegie-Knight investigative reporting project, found 10 cases of alleged in-person voter impersonation since 2000. With 146 million registered voters in the United States, those represent about one for every 15 million prospective voters. [

The Washington Post

,

8/11/12

]

PA State Official Acknowledges No In-Person Voter Fraud In State. In a July 24 blog post, Talking Points Memo pointed out that Pennsylvania has "formally acknowledged that there's been no reported in-person voter fraud in Pennsylvania and there isn't likely to be in November" in a stipulation agreement with a coalition of civil rights lawyers currently involved in a lawsuit revolving around the Pennsylvania voter ID law. From the post:

The state signed a stipulation agreement with lawyers for the plaintiffs which acknowledges there "have been no investigations or prosecutions of in-person voter fraud in Pennsylvania; and the parties do not have direct personal knowledge of any such investigations or prosecutions in other states."

Additionally, the agreement states Pennsylvania "will not offer any evidence in this action that in-person voter fraud has in fact occurred in Pennsylvania and elsewhere" or even argue "that in person voter fraud is likely to occur in November 2012 in the absence of the Photo ID law." [Talking Points Memo,

7/24/12

]

Supreme Court Plurality Found Only "Scattered Instances Of In-Person Voting Fraud." The Supreme Court plurality in Crawford v. Marion County Election Board did not find widespread in-person voter fraud, the type of fraud that a requirement that voters show identification at their polling places is meant to address. Rather, it found only "scattered instances" of such fraud. From the plurality opinion in Crawford v. Marion County Election Board:

Judge Barker cited record evidence containing examples from California, Washington, Maryland, Wisconsin, Georgia, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Missouri, Miami, and St. Louis. The Brief of Amici Curiae Brenan Center for Justice et al. in Support of Petitioners addresses each of these examples of fraud. While the brief indicates that the record evidence of in-person fraud was overstated because much of the fraud was actually absentee ballot fraud or voter registration fraud, there remain scattered instances of in-person voter fraud. For example, after a hotly contested gubernatorial election in 2004, Washington conducted an investigation of voter fraud and uncovered 19 "ghost voters."

Borders v. King Cty., No. 05-2-00027-3 (Super. Ct. Chelan Cty., Wash., June 6, 2005) (verbatim report of unpublished oral decision), 4 Election L. J. 418, 423 (2005). After a partial investigation of the ghost voting, one voter was confirmed to have committed in-person voting fraud. Le & Nicolosi, Dead Voted in Governor's Race, Seattle Post-Intelligencer, Jan. 7, 2005, p. A1. [u.S. Supreme Court, Crawford v. Marion County Election Board, 4/28/08]

Justice Department Report Shows Very Few Prosecutions For Illegally Casting Ballots. According to a report by the Public Integrity Section of the Justice Department, from October 2002 through September 2005, the Justice Department charged 95 people with "election fraud" and convicted 55. Among those, however, just 17 individuals were convicted for casting fraudulent ballots; cases against three other individuals accused of casting fraudulent votes were pending at the time of the report. In addition, the Justice Department convicted one election official of submitting fraudulent ballots and convicted five individuals of registration fraud, with cases against 12 individuals pending at the time of the report. Thirty-two individuals were convicted of other "election fraud" issues, including Republicans convicted of offenses arising from "a scheme to block the phone lines used by two Manchester [New Hampshire] organizations to arrange drives to the polls during the 2002 general election." In other words, many of these convictions were connected to voter suppression efforts, not voter fraud. Several other people listed in the report were convicted of vote-buying. [Department of Justice, accessed 8/2/12]

Brennan Center For Justice: Allegations Of Widespread Voter Fraud "Simply Do Not Pan Out" And Distract From "Real [Election] Problems That Need Real Solutions." A 2007 report by the Brennan Center for Justice found that allegations of widespread voter fraud "often prove greatly exaggerated." The report further found that "many of the claims of voter fraud amount to a great deal of smoke without much fire. The allegations simply do not pan out." From the report:

Perhaps because these stories are dramatic, voter fraud makes a popular scapegoat. In the aftermath of a close election, losing candidates are often quick to blame voter fraud for the results. Legislators cite voter fraud as justification for various new restrictions on the exercise of the franchise. And pundits trot out the same few anecdotes time and again as proof that a wave of fraud is imminent.

Allegations of widespread voter fraud, however, often prove greatly exaggerated. It is easy to grab headlines with a lurid claim ("Tens of thousands may be voting illegally!"); the follow-up -- when any exists -- is not usually deemed newsworthy. Yet on closer examination, many of

the

claims of voter fraud amount to a great deal of smoke without much fire. The allegations simply do not pan out.

These inflated claims are not harmless. Crying "wolf" when the allegations are unsubstantiated distracts attention from real problems that need real solutions. If we can move beyond the fixation on voter fraud, we will be able to focus on the real changes our elections need, from universal registration all the way down to sufficient parking at the poll site. Moreover, these claims of voter fraud are frequently used to justify policies that do not solve the alleged wrongs, but that could well disenfranchise legitimate voters. Overly restrictive identification requirements for voters at the polls -- which address a sort of voter fraud more rare than death by lightning -- is only the most prominent example. [brennan Center for Justice, accessed

8/2/12

]

Researchers Say Restrictions On Early Voting Suppress Turnout

Professors Smith And Herron: Eliminating Early Voting The Final Sunday Before Election Day Disproportionately Impacts Minorities And Young Voters. Analyzing changes to Florida's early voting laws, political science professors Daniel Smith and Michael Herron wrote:

We find that Democratic, African-American, Hispanic, younger, and first-time voters were disproportionately likely to vote early in 2008 and in particular on weekends, including the final Sunday of early voting. [souls to the Polls study,

5/22/12

, via

PolitiFact

]

Brennan Center for Justice: Early Voting Restrictions Most Heavily Disrupt Minority Voting. The Brennan Center for Justice noted that ending early voting on Sundays heavily restricts the African American and Hispanic vote:

New restrictions on early voting will also have their biggest impact on people of color. Opponents of these restrictions have been particularly angered by the efforts to eliminate Sunday early voting, which they see as explicitly targeting African-American voters. Florida eliminated early voting on the last Sunday before Election Day, and Ohio has eliminated early voting on Sundays entirely. There is substantial statistical and anecdotal evidence that African Americans (and to a lesser extent Hispanics) vote on Sundays in proportionately far greater numbers than whites. [brennan Center for Justice, accessed

8/6/12

]

[Tigermike 3,036]

No you are that dumb that you believe the BS you spew out.

A slide show by a far left loon. Nope provide a credible link.

I throw up my hands and give up at this point, Homer. If the words of Republican politicians aren't "credible" enough for him, nothing will be. (So anyone can make up BS and put it in quotes to whomever they want to discredit and that makes it credible? I don't think so. If he had credible sources for his claims he would provide them. Credible other than kos, dimwhit underground, progressivesocialistvoice)

And I bet you believe Algore and Obama deserve their Nobel prizes. Oh yeah.

SRSLY? :lmao:/>

It was late, sometimes it's nice to just throw s_ _ _ _ in their face. But I suppose you think they both deserved their awards as well. Seriously?

You think those quotes are fake? :lol:/>

I think there is no way to know if they are fake or not since your boy has yet to provide a credible link.

You think a far left slide show would stand up in court or be labeled hearsay?

So, in your way of thinking, if a biased site simply quotes what someone said, it's false by definition?

No in my way of thinking if a biased site makes quotes of someone and does not provide evidence of where that quote came from your biased site is just that a biased site and is suspect. I realize that's hard for a foaming at the mouth bed wetting libtard like you. but it is what it is.

Well, I haven't verified any of those quotes, but based on common sense - after all, why would anyone go to the trouble of creating a slide show of pure lies? - I am willing to wager you that each is accurate enough. How about it?

What do you say to $20 / quote? We can use Paypal.

Why don't you just verify the quotes. Why don't you just do what you expect all other posters to do. Or is that too much for you?

I don't feel it's needed. So how about that wager?

In other words you are like your Dear Leader, rules for everyone else but not for you. From now on don't dare ask or demand anyone provide credible or any other links.

And no a slide show is not a credible source. If the info on your far left slide show is correct and accurate you should be able to prove where and when the statements were made.

Stop your grandstanding and back up your claims.

That's a lot of weaseling blah blah blah just to say you aren't willing to put your money where your mouth is. And you don't get to see my cards after you've folded.

Go ahead and admit it you could care less how many illegal votes are cast nation wide as long as no one is inconvenienced by having to get a FREE ID. Al Franken agrees.

[homersapien 11,388]

How many illegal votes are we talking about PT?

How does that compare to the number of votes that would be suppressed by the typical voter ID law?

Do you think that the people proposing these laws are willing to ensure that obtaining a voter ID can be made easily possible for anyone? If so, why haven't such provisions been included?

Get real. This has nothing to do with addressing voter fraud. This is about an effort to suppress the Democratic vote by lying about it's need or purpose.

[Tigermike 3,036]

How many illegal votes are OK in your opinion.

[TheBlueVue 177]

How many illegal votes are OK in your opinion.

That's an easy one. ALL OF THEM as long as they vote democrat and seeing how the vast majority of illegal aliens voting are Mexican its a given they will be voting democrat. Afterall, they're fleeing a much more corrupt socialist state and with food stamps being advertised in places like Tijuana and Juarez it doesn't take them long to figure out who is behind the "free" stuff which is paid for by American taxpayers.

[homersapien 11,388]

How many illegal votes are OK in your opinion.

None. I think every single one should be investigated.

[homersapien 11,388]

How many illegal votes are OK in your opinion.

That's an easy one. ALL OF THEM as long as they vote democrat and seeing how the vast majority of illegal aliens voting are Mexican its a given they will be voting democrat. Afterall, they're fleeing a much more corrupt socialist state and with food stamps being advertised in places like Tijuana and Juarez it doesn't take them long to figure out who is behind the "free" stuff which is paid for by American taxpayers.

How are those illegal Mexicans getting their names on the voter rolls in their district? Let's start there instead of passing general rules deliberately designed to restrict voting.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

TM.........none. Anybody who says otherwise is condoning fraud and can spin things better than Jay Carney.

[Tigermike 3,036]

How many illegal votes are OK in your opinion.

None. I think every single one should be investigated.

Good we agree and if prospective voters have a FREE ID there will be nothing to investigate.

[Tigermike 3,036]

TM.........none. Anybody who says otherwise is condoning fraud and can spin things better than Jay Carney.

They've been trying.