homersapien 11,388 Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Let's see. Try to do any of these things without a picture ID....get a job, by a car, rent a car, get a loan, board a plan, apply for a passport to name only a few. Are all these requisites racist? if not, why is requiring a voter ID racist? Requiring voter ID is an effort to suppress Democratic voters. I am sure Republicans don't care if those votes are cast by white people or black.e articl aside from the partisan argument, are you saying that in 2014 a picture ID, which incidentally is free, is hard for some to get? Have you already forgotten the (fairly recent) threads on this subject? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueVue 177 Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Let's see. Try to do any of these things without a picture ID....get a job, by a car, rent a car, get a loan, board a plan, apply for a passport to name only a few. Are all these requisites racist? if not, why is requiring a voter ID racist? Requiring voter ID is an effort to suppress Democratic voters. I am sure Republicans don't care if those votes are cast by white people or black.e articl aside from the partisan argument, are you saying that in 2014 a picture ID, which incidentally is free, is hard for some to get? Have you already forgotten the (fairly recent) threads on this subject? No, I haven't but those were past issues. I'm just trying to clarify your position and whether or not its strictly partisan. Again, are you saying that obtaining a free ID is beyond the capabilities of some democrats who wish to participate in the electoral process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,388 Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Let's see. Try to do any of these things without a picture ID....get a job, by a car, rent a car, get a loan, board a plan, apply for a passport to name only a few. Are all these requisites racist? if not, why is requiring a voter ID racist? Requiring voter ID is an effort to suppress Democratic voters. I am sure Republicans don't care if those votes are cast by white people or black. LOL isn't it convenient to simply ignore the ID requirements for ALL those other activities? Having a picture ID should be a baseline requirement for everyone who wants to participate in the elections. It's "convenient" to simply ignore things that aren't relevant. But it's amusing to see you make my case that certain classes of people are more likely to have a photo ID to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermike 3,036 Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Did You Know There are Voter Fraud Convictions and Prosecutions in 46 States? link State Board of Elections proposes ways to improve N.C. voter rolls link The Latest Evidence of Voter Fraud — and Discrimination link In Texas, evidence of voter fraud abounds link Here's a great one. Woman Convicted of Voter Fraud Honored by Ohio Democrats link ‘We Don’t Have Any’ Problem of Illegal Immigrants Voting in U.S., Dem Congressmen Say link Over a hundred people were convicted but the actual number of violations was thought to be in the thousands. Minnesota Leads the Nation in Voter Fraud Convictions link Al Franken says hello and thanks for the votes. This will show you how easy it is (and how likely it is) that illegal aliens vote in rather large numbers in certain states, and how hard it is to prove. The Threat of Non-Citizen Voting link Do voter ID laws actually act to suppress black votes? Much Ado About Nothing? An Empirical Assessment of the Georgia Voter Identification Statute link None of the links provided are a slide show produced by who knows who. Voter ID's make too much sense unless you happen to be blinded by partisanship and demagoguery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueVue 177 Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Let's see. Try to do any of these things without a picture ID....get a job, by a car, rent a car, get a loan, board a plan, apply for a passport to name only a few. Are all these requisites racist? if not, why is requiring a voter ID racist? Requiring voter ID is an effort to suppress Democratic voters. I am sure Republicans don't care if those votes are cast by white people or black. LOL isn't it convenient to simply ignore the ID requirements for ALL those other activities? Having a picture ID should be a baseline requirement for everyone who wants to participate in the elections. It's "convenient" to simply ignore things that aren't relevant. But it's amusing to see you make my case that certain classes of people are more likely to have a photo ID to start with. How is it not relevant? Operating at a very basic level, a citizen encounters many instances wherein a photo ID is a minimum requirement. I dont see why having a photo ID could be a bad thing. In fact, I would say it is a very positive thing for those who don't currently have one. Add to that, they can be obtained free of charge, so, how could anyone's vote be suppressed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermike 3,036 Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Like I said, search with the keywords {Republican admissions of voter suppression} (It's not my job to provide your links for you. If you can't do it, tough POOP. ) (Oh and by the way, do you dispute any of the content of said slide show?) (Are you claiming that as a credible link for what you are claiming Republican agendas are?) Fixed that for you. OK, since you are apparently too simple-minded to do your own research, here are the results of page one of links produced by a Google search of "Republican admissions of voter suppression": Republican Admissions on Voter Suppression www.slideshare.net/bennet/republicans-on-voter-suppression Wisconsin Republican Legislator Tears Into His Own Party For ... thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/03/19/3416499/wisconsin-senator-voter-suppression/ Ohio Republican admits voter suppression targets African ... www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/12814048-ohio-republican-admits-voter-suppression-aimed-at-african-americans Former GOP Leaders in Florida Admit to Voter Suppression readersupportednews.org/news-section2/318-66/14740-former-gop-leaders-in-florida-admit-to-voter-suppression Ohio Republican admits voter suppression targets African ... www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/12814048-ohio-republican-admits-voter-suppression-aimed-at-african-americans TX Rep Details GOP's ‘Long List' Of Voter Suppression ... newsone.com/2998173/listen-tx-rep-details-gops-long-list-of-voter-suppression-tactics/ How Republicans Rationalize Voter Suppression www.realclearpolitics.com/2014/04/01/how_republicans_rationalize_voter_suppression To Defeat GOP's Restrictive Voting Laws, Debunk 'Voter Fraud ... www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2014/03/02/to_defeat_gops_restrictive_voting_laws_debunk_voter_fraud_121774.html Right Wing Extremists Want to Destroy What Remains of The ... www.politicususa.com/2014/03/26/wing-extremists-admit-wanting-destroy-remains-voting-rights-act.html Republicans Admit Voter ID Laws Are Aimed at Democratic ... www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/08/28/republicans-admit-voter-id-laws-are-aimed-at-democratic-voters.html NC Republican Don Yelton Admits Voter ID Laws Intend To ... www.inquisitr.com/1005250/nc-republican-don-yelton-admits-voter-id-laws-intend-to-suppress-vote/ Guess my claim wasn't exactly "baseless" was it? Yes it was and still is. Voter ID's make too much sense unless you happen to be blinded by partisanship and demagoguery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermike 3,036 Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Like I said, search with the keywords {Republican admissions of voter suppression} (It's not my job to provide your links for you. If you can't do it, tough POOP. ) (Oh and by the way, do you dispute any of the content of said slide show?) (Are you claiming that as a credible link for what you are claiming Republican agendas are?) Fixed that for you. OK, since you are apparently too simple-minded to do your own research, (Let's get this straight and I'm typing real slow for you. It's not my job to look up any thing for you to make a point. Understand? Since you are a foaming at the mouth far left loon.) here are the results of page one of links produced by a Google search of "Republican admissions of voter suppression": Note to the self described unbiased, nonpartisan poster (Yeah no one believes your BS on that either) - You find the links to back up your points and I will provide mine. You want to continue with the name calling we sure can. Oh and a slide show and think progress are NOT credible. So use them if you want but they don't hold up. Voter ID's make too much sense unless you happen to be blinded by partisanship and demagoguery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermike 3,036 Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 No you are that dumb that you believe the BS you spew out. A slide show by a far left loon. Nope provide a credible link. I throw up my hands and give up at this point, Homer. If the words of Republican politicians aren't "credible" enough for him, nothing will be. (So anyone can make up BS and put it in quotes to whomever they want to discredit and that makes it credible? I don't think so. If he had credible sources for his claims he would provide them. Credible other than kos, dimwhit underground, progressivesocialistvoice) And I bet you believe Algore and Obama deserve their Nobel prizes. Oh yeah. SRSLY? It was late, sometimes it's nice to just throw s_ _ _ _ in their face. But I suppose you think they both deserved their awards as well. Seriously? You think those quotes are fake? I think there is no way to know if they are fake or not since your boy has yet to provide a credible link. You think a far left slide show would stand up in court or be labeled hearsay? So, in your way of thinking, if a biased site simply quotes what someone said, it's false by definition? No in my way of thinking if a biased site makes quotes of someone and does not provide evidence of where that quote came from your biased site is just that a biased site and is suspect. I realize that's hard for a foaming at the mouth bed wetting libtard like you. but it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,388 Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Let's see. Try to do any of these things without a picture ID....get a job, by a car, rent a car, get a loan, board a plan, apply for a passport to name only a few. Are all these requisites racist? if not, why is requiring a voter ID racist? Requiring voter ID is an effort to suppress Democratic voters. I am sure Republicans don't care if those votes are cast by white people or black. LOL isn't it convenient to simply ignore the ID requirements for ALL those other activities? Having a picture ID should be a baseline requirement for everyone who wants to participate in the elections. It's "convenient" to simply ignore things that aren't relevant. But it's amusing to see you make my case that certain classes of people are more likely to have a photo ID to start with. How is it not relevant? Because those things have nothing to do with the right to vote. Operating at a very basic level, a citizen encounters many instances wherein a photo ID is a minimum requirement. True. But not to vote. And there's not enough need to require it. I dont see why having a photo ID could be a bad thing. It's not. In fact, I would say it is a very positive thing for those who don't currently have one. Agreed Add to that, they can be obtained free of charge, so, how could anyone's vote be suppressed? Only after one has presented themselves to an office that issues them. That alone can be a challenge for the typical person who doesn't already have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,388 Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 No you are that dumb that you believe the BS you spew out. A slide show by a far left loon. Nope provide a credible link. I throw up my hands and give up at this point, Homer. If the words of Republican politicians aren't "credible" enough for him, nothing will be. (So anyone can make up BS and put it in quotes to whomever they want to discredit and that makes it credible? I don't think so. If he had credible sources for his claims he would provide them. Credible other than kos, dimwhit underground, progressivesocialistvoice) And I bet you believe Algore and Obama deserve their Nobel prizes. Oh yeah. SRSLY? It was late, sometimes it's nice to just throw s_ _ _ _ in their face. But I suppose you think they both deserved their awards as well. Seriously? You think those quotes are fake? I think there is no way to know if they are fake or not since your boy has yet to provide a credible link. You think a far left slide show would stand up in court or be labeled hearsay? So, in your way of thinking, if a biased site simply quotes what someone said, it's false by definition? No in my way of thinking if a biased site makes quotes of someone and does not provide evidence of where that quote came from your biased site is just that a biased site and is suspect. I realize that's hard for a foaming at the mouth bed wetting libtard like you. but it is what it is. Well, I haven't verified any of those quotes, but based on common sense - after all, why would anyone go to the trouble of creating a slide show of pure lies? - I am willing to wager you that each is accurate enough. How about it? What do you say to $20 / quote? We can use Paypal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermike 3,036 Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 No you are that dumb that you believe the BS you spew out. A slide show by a far left loon. Nope provide a credible link. I throw up my hands and give up at this point, Homer. If the words of Republican politicians aren't "credible" enough for him, nothing will be. (So anyone can make up BS and put it in quotes to whomever they want to discredit and that makes it credible? I don't think so. If he had credible sources for his claims he would provide them. Credible other than kos, dimwhit underground, progressivesocialistvoice) And I bet you believe Algore and Obama deserve their Nobel prizes. Oh yeah. SRSLY? It was late, sometimes it's nice to just throw s_ _ _ _ in their face. But I suppose you think they both deserved their awards as well. Seriously? You think those quotes are fake? I think there is no way to know if they are fake or not since your boy has yet to provide a credible link. You think a far left slide show would stand up in court or be labeled hearsay? So, in your way of thinking, if a biased site simply quotes what someone said, it's false by definition? No in my way of thinking if a biased site makes quotes of someone and does not provide evidence of where that quote came from your biased site is just that a biased site and is suspect. I realize that's hard for a foaming at the mouth bed wetting libtard like you. but it is what it is. Well, I haven't verified any of those quotes, but based on common sense - after all, why would anyone go to the trouble of creating a slide show of pure lies? - I am willing to wager you that each is accurate enough. How about it? What do you say to $20 / quote? We can use Paypal. Why don't you just verify the quotes. Why don't you just do what you expect all other posters to do. Or is that too much for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermike 3,036 Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Did You Know There are Voter Fraud Convictions and Prosecutions in 46 States? link State Board of Elections proposes ways to improve N.C. voter rolls link The Latest Evidence of Voter Fraud — and Discrimination link In Texas, evidence of voter fraud abounds link Here's a great one. Woman Convicted of Voter Fraud Honored by Ohio Democrats link ‘We Don’t Have Any’ Problem of Illegal Immigrants Voting in U.S., Dem Congressmen Say link Over a hundred people were convicted but the actual number of violations was thought to be in the thousands. Minnesota Leads the Nation in Voter Fraud Convictions link Al Franken says hello and thanks for the votes. This will show you how easy it is (and how likely it is) that illegal aliens vote in rather large numbers in certain states, and how hard it is to prove. The Threat of Non-Citizen Voting link Do voter ID laws actually act to suppress black votes? Much Ado About Nothing? An Empirical Assessment of the Georgia Voter Identification Statute link None of the links provided are a slide show produced by who knows who. Voter ID's make too much sense unless you happen to be blinded by partisanship and demagoguery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,388 Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 No you are that dumb that you believe the BS you spew out. A slide show by a far left loon. Nope provide a credible link. I throw up my hands and give up at this point, Homer. If the words of Republican politicians aren't "credible" enough for him, nothing will be. (So anyone can make up BS and put it in quotes to whomever they want to discredit and that makes it credible? I don't think so. If he had credible sources for his claims he would provide them. Credible other than kos, dimwhit underground, progressivesocialistvoice) And I bet you believe Algore and Obama deserve their Nobel prizes. Oh yeah. SRSLY? It was late, sometimes it's nice to just throw s_ _ _ _ in their face. But I suppose you think they both deserved their awards as well. Seriously? You think those quotes are fake? I think there is no way to know if they are fake or not since your boy has yet to provide a credible link. You think a far left slide show would stand up in court or be labeled hearsay? So, in your way of thinking, if a biased site simply quotes what someone said, it's false by definition? No in my way of thinking if a biased site makes quotes of someone and does not provide evidence of where that quote came from your biased site is just that a biased site and is suspect. I realize that's hard for a foaming at the mouth bed wetting libtard like you. but it is what it is. Well, I haven't verified any of those quotes, but based on common sense - after all, why would anyone go to the trouble of creating a slide show of pure lies? - I am willing to wager you that each is accurate enough. How about it? What do you say to $20 / quote? We can use Paypal. Why don't you just verify the quotes. Why don't you just do what you expect all other posters to do. Or is that too much for you? I don't feel it's needed. So how about that wager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueVue 177 Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Only after one has presented themselves to an office that issues them. That alone can be a challenge for the typical person who doesn't already have one. So, they have no problem getting to a polling station but are hard pressed to get to a location to pick up a free photo ID. I got it. Your position is strictly partisan and all about arguing for votes. Their legitimacy is not an issue for you because you're certain, as is everyone else, ALL of those votes will be democrat. Hmmmm..LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermike 3,036 Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 No you are that dumb that you believe the BS you spew out. A slide show by a far left loon. Nope provide a credible link. I throw up my hands and give up at this point, Homer. If the words of Republican politicians aren't "credible" enough for him, nothing will be. (So anyone can make up BS and put it in quotes to whomever they want to discredit and that makes it credible? I don't think so. If he had credible sources for his claims he would provide them. Credible other than kos, dimwhit underground, progressivesocialistvoice) And I bet you believe Algore and Obama deserve their Nobel prizes. Oh yeah. SRSLY? It was late, sometimes it's nice to just throw s_ _ _ _ in their face. But I suppose you think they both deserved their awards as well. Seriously? You think those quotes are fake? I think there is no way to know if they are fake or not since your boy has yet to provide a credible link. You think a far left slide show would stand up in court or be labeled hearsay? So, in your way of thinking, if a biased site simply quotes what someone said, it's false by definition? No in my way of thinking if a biased site makes quotes of someone and does not provide evidence of where that quote came from your biased site is just that a biased site and is suspect. I realize that's hard for a foaming at the mouth bed wetting libtard like you. but it is what it is. Well, I haven't verified any of those quotes, but based on common sense - after all, why would anyone go to the trouble of creating a slide show of pure lies? - I am willing to wager you that each is accurate enough. How about it? What do you say to $20 / quote? We can use Paypal. Why don't you just verify the quotes. Why don't you just do what you expect all other posters to do. Or is that too much for you? I don't feel it's needed. So how about that wager? In other words you are like your Dear Leader, rules for everyone else but not for you. From now on don't dare ask or demand anyone provide credible or any other links. And no a slide show is not a credible source. If the info on your far left slide show is correct and accurate you should be able to prove where and when the statements were made. Stop your grandstanding and back up your claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,388 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Only after one has presented themselves to an office that issues them. That alone can be a challenge for the typical person who doesn't already have one. So, they have no problem getting to a polling station but are hard pressed to get to a location to pick up a free photo ID. I got it. Your position is strictly partisan and all about arguing for votes. Their legitimacy is not an issue for you because you're certain, as is everyone else, ALL of those votes will be democrat. Hmmmm..LOL I don't think you do. This is really weird projection. But it's gratifying to see you at least acknowledge the partisan aspect of this. After all, the fact we are talking about voters who vote predominately Democratic is sorta of the point. (Duuuuh....) So the questions become: 1) just how big is the problem of fraudulent voting? 2) Is voter ID the most efficient way of preventing the fraud that does occur? 3) Are there more direct ways to address said fraud that don't necessarily involve photo IDs? 4) Does photo voter ID impose hardships on any citizens that will not be addressed by proposed laws? 5) Who benefits politically by suppressing the vote of this class of citizen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,388 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 No you are that dumb that you believe the BS you spew out. A slide show by a far left loon. Nope provide a credible link. I throw up my hands and give up at this point, Homer. If the words of Republican politicians aren't "credible" enough for him, nothing will be. (So anyone can make up BS and put it in quotes to whomever they want to discredit and that makes it credible? I don't think so. If he had credible sources for his claims he would provide them. Credible other than kos, dimwhit underground, progressivesocialistvoice) And I bet you believe Algore and Obama deserve their Nobel prizes. Oh yeah. SRSLY? It was late, sometimes it's nice to just throw s_ _ _ _ in their face. But I suppose you think they both deserved their awards as well. Seriously? You think those quotes are fake? I think there is no way to know if they are fake or not since your boy has yet to provide a credible link. You think a far left slide show would stand up in court or be labeled hearsay? So, in your way of thinking, if a biased site simply quotes what someone said, it's false by definition? No in my way of thinking if a biased site makes quotes of someone and does not provide evidence of where that quote came from your biased site is just that a biased site and is suspect. I realize that's hard for a foaming at the mouth bed wetting libtard like you. but it is what it is. Well, I haven't verified any of those quotes, but based on common sense - after all, why would anyone go to the trouble of creating a slide show of pure lies? - I am willing to wager you that each is accurate enough. How about it? What do you say to $20 / quote? We can use Paypal. Why don't you just verify the quotes. Why don't you just do what you expect all other posters to do. Or is that too much for you? I don't feel it's needed. So how about that wager? In other words you are like your Dear Leader, rules for everyone else but not for you. From now on don't dare ask or demand anyone provide credible or any other links. And no a slide show is not a credible source. If the info on your far left slide show is correct and accurate you should be able to prove where and when the statements were made. Stop your grandstanding and back up your claims. That's a lot of weaseling blah blah blah just to say you aren't willing to put your money where your mouth is. And you don't get to see my cards after you've folded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueVue 177 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Only after one has presented themselves to an office that issues them. That alone can be a challenge for the typical person who doesn't already have one. So, they have no problem getting to a polling station but are hard pressed to get to a location to pick up a free photo ID. I got it. Your position is strictly partisan and all about arguing for votes. Their legitimacy is not an issue for you because you're certain, as is everyone else, ALL of those votes will be democrat. Hmmmm..LOL I don't think you do. This is really weird projection. But it's gratifying to see you at least acknowledge the partisan aspect of this. After all, the fact we are talking about voters who vote predominately Democratic is sorta of the point. (Duuuuh....) So the questions become: 1) just how big is this problem of of fraudulent voting? 2) Is voter ID the most efficient way of preventing the fraud that does occur? 3) Are there more direct ways to address said fraud that don't necessarily involve photo IDs? 4) Does photo voter ID impose hardships on any citizens that will not be addressed by proposed laws? 5) Who benefits politically by suppressing the vote of this class of citizen? Who benefits politically by turning a blind eye to voter fraud? This is why you and your ilk argue so obtusely that voter fraud doesn't even exist. If its not a hardship to cast a vote, its idiotic to argue its a hardship to get a free ID. I get it much better than you're willing to acknowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFAN78 3,911 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Someone on this forum please provide a clear example where they personally have tried and failed to get a photo id. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,388 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Only after one has presented themselves to an office that issues them. That alone can be a challenge for the typical person who doesn't already have one. So, they have no problem getting to a polling station but are hard pressed to get to a location to pick up a free photo ID. I got it. Your position is strictly partisan and all about arguing for votes. Their legitimacy is not an issue for you because you're certain, as is everyone else, ALL of those votes will be democrat. Hmmmm..LOL I don't think you do. This is really weird projection. But it's gratifying to see you at least acknowledge the partisan aspect of this. After all, the fact we are talking about voters who vote predominately Democratic is sorta of the point. (Duuuuh....) So the questions become: 1) just how big is this problem of of fraudulent voting? 2) Is voter ID the most efficient way of preventing the fraud that does occur? 3) Are there more direct ways to address said fraud that don't necessarily involve photo IDs? 4) Does photo voter ID impose hardships on any citizens that will not be addressed by proposed laws? 5) Who benefits politically by suppressing the vote of this class of citizen? Who benefits politically by turning a blind eye to voter fraud? This is why you and your ilk argue so obtusely that voter fraud doesn't even exist. If its not a hardship to cast a vote, its idiotic to argue its a hardship to get a free ID. I get it much better than you're willing to acknowledge. Wrong. I never argued that voter fraud doesn't exist. I have argued that voter ID is not the best way to deal with it and actually causes more problems for more people casting legitimate votes. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueVue 177 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Only after one has presented themselves to an office that issues them. That alone can be a challenge for the typical person who doesn't already have one. So, they have no problem getting to a polling station but are hard pressed to get to a location to pick up a free photo ID. I got it. Your position is strictly partisan and all about arguing for votes. Their legitimacy is not an issue for you because you're certain, as is everyone else, ALL of those votes will be democrat. Hmmmm..LOL I don't think you do. This is really weird projection. But it's gratifying to see you at least acknowledge the partisan aspect of this. After all, the fact we are talking about voters who vote predominately Democratic is sorta of the point. (Duuuuh....) So the questions become: 1) just how big is this problem of of fraudulent voting? 2) Is voter ID the most efficient way of preventing the fraud that does occur? 3) Are there more direct ways to address said fraud that don't necessarily involve photo IDs? 4) Does photo voter ID impose hardships on any citizens that will not be addressed by proposed laws? 5) Who benefits politically by suppressing the vote of this class of citizen? Who benefits politically by turning a blind eye to voter fraud? This is why you and your ilk argue so obtusely that voter fraud doesn't even exist. If its not a hardship to cast a vote, its idiotic to argue its a hardship to get a free ID. I get it much better than you're willing to acknowledge. Wrong. I never argued that voter fraud doesn't exist. I have argued that voter ID is not the best way to deal with it and actually causes more problems for more people casting legitimate votes. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Its an obtuse argument. Please explain the hardships involved in securing a FREE ID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,388 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Only after one has presented themselves to an office that issues them. That alone can be a challenge for the typical person who doesn't already have one. So, they have no problem getting to a polling station but are hard pressed to get to a location to pick up a free photo ID. I got it. Your position is strictly partisan and all about arguing for votes. Their legitimacy is not an issue for you because you're certain, as is everyone else, ALL of those votes will be democrat. Hmmmm..LOL I don't think you do. This is really weird projection. But it's gratifying to see you at least acknowledge the partisan aspect of this. After all, the fact we are talking about voters who vote predominately Democratic is sorta of the point. (Duuuuh....) So the questions become: 1) just how big is this problem of of fraudulent voting? 2) Is voter ID the most efficient way of preventing the fraud that does occur? 3) Are there more direct ways to address said fraud that don't necessarily involve photo IDs? 4) Does photo voter ID impose hardships on any citizens that will not be addressed by proposed laws? 5) Who benefits politically by suppressing the vote of this class of citizen? Who benefits politically by turning a blind eye to voter fraud? This is why you and your ilk argue so obtusely that voter fraud doesn't even exist. If its not a hardship to cast a vote, its idiotic to argue its a hardship to get a free ID. I get it much better than you're willing to acknowledge. ....But basically, there is a whole subset (I will admit they are a minority) of people-- very poor, very little opportunity-- who are surviving in a world that quite honestly, does not operate in the world that you and I live in. A lot of these people, do not take advantage of the services you and I think of as being "everyday" and require an ID. They are too poor to own a car, so they don't and may not even know how to drive. For example, some grew up in foster care, and were never able to even be taught how to drive, therefore, no driver's license. They don't have a bank account, so there would be no need for an ID there. They may not even own a phone or if they do, it may be something they got on the street using cash. Places such as free clinics allow you to use bills that are mailed to your house as confirmation of your address, and knowing that a lot of these people rent, or even live with friends or other relatives and move around... getting an ID just isn't even on their radar screen. Then you get into the issues of getting the ID. First, how do you get them there, can they even take off work to do it-- for many, a day off work is the difference between having a place to live and not. Let's say you can get them there and the time off work isn't an issue, then what do you use to get your ID. Again, if you were in a foster system, or literally have been pretty transient, moving from place to place, home to home, maybe even in foster care as a child, do you even have your SS card? Do you even have a copy of your birth certificate? For many of these people, the answer is no to at least one of these. Now you are talking about a whole other set of issues. Now you are talking about transportation and days, even weeks, to track down the supporting documents needed to get an ID. This becomes a laborious process, all for someone to vote. And if you are this person, it's probably easier to just stay home rather than bother going to the polls. Like I said, these are people who are living on the very brink of our society. And according to the constitution, they also have a right to vote. Many of these people also happen to be minorities (not all of them, mind you). So while I can totally understand the line of thinking that it seems so easy to get an ID (I also had trouble wrapping my mind around how it would be so difficult, and who are these people that don't have an ID). Now that I have been exposed to them, I now have a better understanding of the fact that for these people, nothing in life is simple and straightforward. They aren't bankable, they don't drive, they don't own a home or a car, they likely did not finish high school, and if they did, that's as far as it went. They likely have very loose connections to birth parents (if they are still living) or even have a relationship with many relatives who would be able to help with documentation, etc. I haven't even touched on the cost for the ID, because I am working off the assumption that somehow the ID would be free to them. But if not, then that becomes another barrier. Again, while it seems very inconceivable that these people are out there-- trust me when I say that they are. I am not opposed to trying to find a solution to getting them an ID, but I hope I have helped to demonstrate that it isn't as simple as just making sure it is free. It's way more complicated to get these people IDs and until that problem has been sorted through, requirements to have an ID to vote does encourage those people to not even bother. Edited to include these links: ID hard to obtain for 84 year old Elderly woman finds it hard to vote Again, it's worth mentioning that placing a undue burden on people in these unique situations is akin to taking away their right to vote. http://www.aufamily....re/page__st__81 I have no problem with requiring people to prove they are who they are. However, Voter ID law changes are not about free and fair elections, they're about disenfranchisement and trying to stay in power. Weegs, you mentioned sacrifices - count your blessings that you are in a position to make those sacrifices and not have to reap the consequences that someone less well off than you would have to. The fact that the OP writes "too lazy or too stupid to get a FREEEEEE picture ID?" illustrates the issue more than I possibly ever could. Should they be allowed to vote? yes. They're American citizens. If you would like to deny a US citizen the right to vote, I sure wish you'd make a good case as to why the 15th Amendment shouldn't apply anymore. If you think that you are able to make that sacrifice, then you are more well off than they are. If, to you, having an ID is a given, then you obviously do not have either an experience of, or an open mind to, another possibility. I've worked with (or on) plenty of people in my life who legitimately do not have the resources or ability to take off a day of work to go to the DMV, or have transportation to get there and back. These people were, generally, elderly, African American, and quite poor. Many did not have a vehicle, which (if you really thought through it) they couldn't drive anyway. Because they don't have an ID. http://www.aufamily....re/page__st__18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueVue 177 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 So the elderly, the African Americans and the quite poor who were put out terribly by being required to identify themselves have no problem getting to the polling stations? Gotcha..bogus obtuse partisan argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Tiger 4,261 Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 Are these people getting their freebies without an ID? I need a new cell phone, where's the line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,388 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 So the elderly, the African Americans and the quite poor who were put out terribly by being required to identify themselves have no problem getting to the polling stations? Gotcha..bogus obtuse partisan argument. Who said these people have no problem getting to the polling stations? You are great at strawman arguments. And is "obtuse" your latest new word? Regardless my points are not obtuse. They are exactly the same questions a judge would ask if asked to rule on the constitutionality of photo IDs. In other words, they are acutely relevant, not obtuse. But speaking of unsubstantiated arguments, how about quantifying the extent of existing voter fraud and show how a photo ID would prevent it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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