Aleppo

[AUbritt 611]

Of course, the Syrian government forces claim reports of atrocities are false.

I understand the situation is complicated. But we need to do something. Obama, what do you have to lose? Do what you think is right, not what is politically expedient. Pay attention to human rights, for a change!

[AURaptor 1,129]

He's drawn his line in the sand.  What more do you want Obama to do?  

[TexasTiger 13,285]

53 minutes ago, AUbritt said:

Of course, the Syrian government forces claim reports of atrocities are false.

I understand the situation is complicated. But we need to do something. Obama, what do you have to lose? Do what you think is right, not what is politically expedient. Pay attention to human rights, for a change!

Too late

[AUbritt 611]

4 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Too late

There are still people there. I know it's too late on a macro scale. But there are still people there.

[icanthearyou 4,465]

50 minutes ago, AUbritt said:

Of course, the Syrian government forces claim reports of atrocities are false.

I understand the situation is complicated. But we need to do something. Obama, what do you have to lose? Do what you think is right, not what is politically expedient. Pay attention to human rights, for a change!

Getting sucked into Syria would be a horrible mistake.  Military force is not always the answer.  For now, diplomacy is not an option.  Patience.  I appreciate your concern for the innocent but, there are times when we must accept the fact that there is no productive strategy.  No rational reason to add to the chaos.

Obama has a month left in office.  I can not imagine the reaction from both political factions if he suddenly escalated our involvement.

[AUbritt 611]

7 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Getting sucked into Syria would be a horrible mistake.  Military force is not always the answer.  For now, diplomacy is not an option.  Patience.  I appreciate your concern for the innocent but, there are times when we must accept the fact that there is no productive strategy.  No rational reason to add to the chaos.

Obama has a month left in office.  I can not imagine the reaction from both political factions if he suddenly escalated our involvement.

I agree, doing nothing seems politically expedient. I still want him to do what's right, whatever the reactions from our political factions.

EDIT: And I agree, of course, that military force is not always the right answer.

[icanthearyou 4,465]

10 minutes ago, AUbritt said:

I agree, doing nothing seems politically expedient. I still want him to do what's right, whatever the reactions from our political factions.

EDIT: And I agree, of course, that military force is not always the right answer.

That is a very general statement.  By what measure/standard?  At what cost?  Is it possible that Obama is, "doing what is right"?

The desire to end human suffering is admirable.  However, I'm not sure Syria is the place to start and, I believe that is an extremely long-term goal.  It will take a vision and strategy that transcend many, many presidencies.  In many ways, it is more about who WE are than, who the president is.

IMHO, spreading democracy and capitalism is done best by example and achievement, not by force or influence.  We have a lot to relearn about ourselves before we can be, or even proclaim, that we are a force for good.

We are good people.  However, at present, we will not allow that common good to work toward a better world/society/human condition.  We are too divided politically/ideologically. Our motives are more political than principled.   

Ideology will not "make America great again".   Perhaps reconfirming our belief in honesty, fairness, equality, mutual respect is more essential for asserting ourselves as a force for good, "doing what is right"?

[AUbritt 611]

4 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

That is a very general statement.  By what measure/standard?  At what cost?  Is it possible that Obama is, "doing what is right"?

The desire to end human suffering is admirable.  However, I'm not sure Syria is the place to start and, I believe that is an extremely long-term goal.  It will take a vision and strategy that transcend many, many presidencies.  In many ways, it is more about who WE are than, who the president is.

IMHO, spreading democracy and capitalism is done best by example and achievement, not by force or influence.  We have a lot to relearn about ourselves before we can be, or even proclaim, that we are a force for good.

We are good people.  However, at present, we will not allow that common good to work toward a better world/society/human condition.  We are too divided politically/ideologically. Our motives are more political than principled.   

Ideology will not "make America great again".   Perhaps reconfirming our belief in honesty, fairness, equality, mutual respect is more essential for asserting ourselves as a force for good, "doing what is right"?

I'm not suggesting I have THE answer. 

But I believe that non-action on Aleppo is wrong. People are being slaughtered, and we know about it. We can do more than nothing.

In any case, this is the sort of conversation we need to replace the divisiveness you cite.

For instance, how do we stop something like Aleppo from happening again, beyond just saying 'never again' and then standing by watching while it happens?

[icanthearyou 4,465]

1 hour ago, AUbritt said:

I'm not suggesting I have THE answer. 

But I believe that non-action on Aleppo is wrong. People are being slaughtered, and we know about it. We can do more than nothing.

In any case, this is the sort of conversation we need to replace the divisiveness you cite.

For instance, how do we stop something like Aleppo from happening again, beyond just saying 'never again' and then standing by watching while it happens?

I did not suggest that you did or, had to.

Okay, what action would you propose?

I don't believe you can not stop bad things from ever happening again by law or policy.  You would have to fundamentally change human nature.  You would have to make love of your fellow man more important than any other concept or desire.  I'm not sure there is an answer, certainly not an immediate one.

[AUbritt 611]

7 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

I did not suggest that you did or, had to.

Okay, what action would you propose?

I don't believe you can not stop bad things from ever happening again by law or policy.  You would have to fundamentally change human nature.  You would have to make love of your fellow man more important than any other concept or desire.  I'm not sure there is an answer, certainly not an immediate one.

Oh, I wasn't suggesting you were suggesting.

I don't know.

I agree.

[icanthearyou 4,465]

2 minutes ago, AUbritt said:

Oh, I wasn't suggesting you were suggesting.

I don't know.

I agree.

Perhaps, at the moment, doing nothing is a logical approach?

Although, we aren't really doing nothing.  That is a bit misleading.  Maybe we should be doing even less?

[AUbritt 611]

27 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Perhaps, at the moment, doing nothing is a logical approach?

Although, we aren't really doing nothing.  That is a bit misleading.  Maybe we should be doing even less?

Not what my gut says,  but I have limited info. 

[alexava 6,974]

This is a screwed up situation. I am like Britt I think SOMETHING needs to be done. I also have no idea what that is. There are so many factions fighting against each other there is no obvious side to take. Not pointing fingers at anyone in this thread but if we are truly concerned about the innocent people we must work this from a refugee angle. Either accept more here or find them better living conditions in a more affordable place. Before this thread ends someone would suggest carpet bombing or annihilation of the entire region. Which goes completely against any humanitarian claims. Some folks just love war. No telling what trump will do. I don't think he is aware of the fact that there are at least 3 main factions at odds on Syria then allies in the region to some of them but extremely at odds with others. The whole gd thing is a mess and trump seems so cozy with Russia that will play into his action. 

[AURaptor 1,129]

A strong leader would gather allies together and or appeal to the UN ... 

 

nevermind.

[homersapien 11,632]

2 hours ago, AURaptor said:

A strong leader would gather allies together and or appeal to the UN ... 

 

You mean a strong leader like Trump?

Yeah, we'll have allies just lined up to get on board with him.  

[SaltyTiger 8,007]

7 hours ago, AUbritt said:

Of course, the Syrian government forces claim reports of atrocities are false.

I understand the situation is complicated. But we need to do something. Obama, what do you have to lose? Do what you think is right, not what is politically expedient. Pay attention to human rights, for a change!

Unbelievable that this has unfolded and so many are watching. Complicated situation indeed.

[AURaptor 1,129]

11 minutes ago, homersapien said:

You mean a strong leader like Trump?

Yeah, we'll have allies just lined up to get on board with him.  

I was talking about Obama, and his ' red line in the sand ' threat, which was among his most pitiful displays as leader of the Free World. And that was how many years ago ? Of course by now, it's way past too late to do anything meaningful. But Obama will point fingers and lay blame on everyone else, as he usually does. 

[alexava 6,974]

2 hours ago, AURaptor said:

A strong leader would gather allies together and or appeal to the UN ... 

 

nevermind.

the allies all hate each other! there are not allies in that part of the world.

[AURaptor 1,129]

7 minutes ago, alexava said:

the allies all hate each other! there are not allies in that part of the world.

 

 

Being a world power is tough ! 

 

[alexava 6,974]

7 minutes ago, AURaptor said:

 

 

Being a world power is tough ! 

 

[AURaptor 1,129]

Oh, well then.If a cartoonishly drawn diagram with lines, dashes and dots with randomly placed names of nations across a page isn't proof, then nothing is !  

[alexava 6,974]

You are immune to proof.

[homersapien 11,632]

48 minutes ago, AURaptor said:

I was talking about Obama, and his ' red line in the sand ' threat, which was among his most pitiful displays as leader of the Free World. And that was how many years ago ? Of course by now, it's way past too late to do anything meaningful. But Obama will point fingers and lay blame on everyone else, as he usually does. 

I'm talking about the president-elect.  Obama's a lame duck and his failures are history.

So, assuming you think Trump is going to be a better leader, don't you hold him to the same standard?

You think Trump is going to get all our allies to line up with him on an aggressive Syrian policy?

Hah!  Most of our allies think he's crazy, and for good reason.

[homersapien 11,632]

19 minutes ago, AURaptor said:

Oh, well then.If a cartoonishly drawn diagram with lines, dashes and dots with randomly placed names of nations across a page isn't proof, then nothing is !  

Well, everyone knows you refuse to read written text.  

Now you won't even accept a picture? 

[AURaptor 1,129]

5 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Well, everyone knows you refuse to read written text.  

Now you won't even accept a picture? 

Sez the one who won't even WATCH a freakin' video !!!