Trump’s plan to reopen America can’t work without a massive surge in testing

[homersapien 11,812]

We’re nowhere close.

https://www.vox.com/2020/4/17/21224872/coronavirus-testing-trump-reopen-economy

 

".........Trump also claimed testing is “at an all-time high” and “growing at a historic rate.” But that’s false, based on the actual numbers.

According to the Covid Tracking Project, the US has averaged fewer than 150,000 tests each day so far in the week of April 13, including at both public and commercial labs. That’s an improvement from the early days of March, when the country reported new tests in the dozens and later the hundreds. But it’s not an increase from more recent weeks: In the week of April 6, the country also averaged fewer than 150,000 tests a day.

What the country needs to properly do testing, according to experts, is at least 500,000 tests a day. Some experts call for much more than that — millions or even tens of millions a day — but the general point is that the US needs to be doing multiple times the testing that it’s currently doing to be able to test everyone with symptoms and their close contacts..........."

[Grumps 3,706]

33 minutes ago, homersapien said:

We’re nowhere close.

https://www.vox.com/2020/4/17/21224872/coronavirus-testing-trump-reopen-economy

 

".........Trump also claimed testing is “at an all-time high” and “growing at a historic rate.” But that’s false, based on the actual numbers.

According to the Covid Tracking Project, the US has averaged fewer than 150,000 tests each day so far in the week of April 13, including at both public and commercial labs. That’s an improvement from the early days of March, when the country reported new tests in the dozens and later the hundreds. But it’s not an increase from more recent weeks: In the week of April 6, the country also averaged fewer than 150,000 tests a day.

What the country needs to properly do testing, according to experts, is at least 500,000 tests a day. Some experts call for much more than that — millions or even tens of millions a day — but the general point is that the US needs to be doing multiple times the testing that it’s currently doing to be able to test everyone with symptoms and their close contacts..........."

That's a garbage article, almost like the writer has no medical knowledge. It doesn't even specify what type of testing needs to be done. There is a saying in medicine, "Don't order a test if it is not going to change what you are going to do." I think it applies here.

If you are in a highly infected area you should stay at home. Period. If you test positive you should stay home. If you test negative you should stay home. If you are not tested you should stay home. Testing does NOTHING.

If you are in one of these areas and you stay home for 14 days then you either didn't have the disease and are safe, or you had the disease and are better. Testing does NOTHING.

When there are approved antibody tests available to know who might be immune then widespread testing makes sense. But I don't see how it is a good idea to keep the economy shout down until those tests are approved and developed. Do you? You seemed to imply in another thread that Trump should not have shut down the economy.

[homersapien 11,812]

35 minutes ago, Grumps said:

That's a garbage article, almost like the writer has no medical knowledge. It doesn't even specify what type of testing needs to be done. There is a saying in medicine, "Don't order a test if it is not going to change what you are going to do." I think it applies here.

If you are in a highly infected area you should stay at home. Period. If you test positive you should stay home. If you test negative you should stay home. If you are not tested you should stay home. Testing does NOTHING.

If you are in one of these areas and you stay home for 14 days then you either didn't have the disease and are safe, or you had the disease and are better. Testing does NOTHING.

When there are approved antibody tests available to know who might be immune then widespread testing makes sense. But I don't see how it is a good idea to keep the economy shout down until those tests are approved and developed. Do you? You seemed to imply in another thread that Trump should not have shut down the economy.

What BS.  Attacking the source.

I could provide dozens of articles saying the exact same thing.  Do I really need to go to that trouble?

Please, just search "coronavirus testing needs" or something similar.

And the point of this article was not to discuss the technical details and explain the differences between diagnostic testing and serological (antibody) testing.  We are deficient in BOTH types of testing.

I have yet to hear a focused comprehensive plan to address our testing shortfall from the administration. All I have heard is Trump bragging about the total number of tests we have done, as if it's adequate, which it is not.

With all do respect, you are really really uninformed about the need for testing before we open up the economy and the associated implications of what will happen if we do it prematurely.  

Please educate yourself on this.

And yes, I most definitely feel it would be a terrible mistake to open up the economy before the needed testing strategy can be deployed. 

[Grumps 3,706]

19 hours ago, homersapien said:

What BS.  Attacking the source.

I could provide dozens of articles saying the exact same thing.  Do I really need to go to that trouble?

Please, just search "coronavirus testing needs" or something similar.

And the point of this article was not to discuss the technical details and explain the differences between diagnostic testing and serological (antibody) testing.  We are deficient in BOTH types of testing.

I have yet to hear a focused comprehensive plan to address our testing shortfall from the administration. All I have heard is Trump bragging about the total number of tests we have done, as if it's adequate, which it is not.

With all do respect, you are really really uninformed about the need for testing before we open up the economy and the associated implications of what will happen if we do it prematurely.  

Please educate yourself on this.

And yes, I most definitely feel it would be a terrible mistake to open up the economy before the needed testing strategy can be deployed. 

You are not even trying any more. Is the hate taking over your brain? I had TWO sentences about the article/writer, stating that the author does not seem to have medical knowledge. That is attacking the source?

I completely agree that Trump is bragging about the number of tests that are being performed. Those are not the tests that we need. We don't have the needed tests because THEY DON'T EXIST YET!

The comprehensive plan is to invent the tests, then verify that they are accurate, and then produce them like crazy. It would be nice if the Trump administration had 500 million COVID-19 antibody tests and vaccines sitting in a warehouse somewhere. I am sure you will fault him for not having them. Maybe Biden can fix it in January!!!

[aubiefifty 17,492]

1 hour ago, Grumps said:

You are not even trying any more. Is the hate taking over your brain? I had TWO sentences about the article/writer, stating that the author does not seem to have medical knowledge. That is attacking the source?

I completely agree that Trump is bragging about the number of tests that are being performed. Those are not the tests that we need. We don't have the needed tests because THEY DON'T EXIST YET!

The comprehensive plan is to invent the tests, then verify that they are accurate, and then produce them like crazy. It would be nice if the Trump administration had 500 million COVID-19 antibody tests and vaccines sitting in a warehouse somewhere. I am sure you will fault him for not having them. Maybe Biden can fix it in January!!!

you need to change the color of lipstick you are putting on that pig because it is not working.............

[aubiefifty 17,492]

i copied this from a friend on facebook. you guys can lie or kid yourselves it is not true but it did just happen.

 

What would you call a President who would exhort his followers to "liberate" a state from its legally elected Governor? What would you call him if he exhorted those followers to defy the orders of that majority elected legal government temporarily put in place to protect that states citizens during a time of National emergency? What would you call a President who was exhorting his followers to defy the orders stemming from the guidelines that his own Government had issued?

Think about it .... Besides colossal azzhole, what would you call him?

[Grumps 3,706]

https://in.reuters.com/video/watch/idOVC9VYR4V

 

Dr. Fauci on testing.

[homersapien 11,812]

3 hours ago, Grumps said:

You are not even trying any more. Is the hate taking over your brain? I had TWO sentences about the article/writer, stating that the author does not seem to have medical knowledge. That is attacking the source?

Yes, it most certainly is.  In a very disingenuous way.

I completely agree that Trump is bragging about the number of tests that are being performed. Those are not the tests that we need. We don't have the needed tests because THEY DON'T EXIST YET!

BS.  You are displaying your ignorance of the topic again.  The problem is not that tests don't exist, it's that the logistics for deploying them is dysfunctional.  Just about every article on the subject discusses this.

"Hospitals and health systems continue to lack critical testing supplies, including swabs, transport media and reagents, which is the most frequent reason contributing to testing machines not being able to be used to their full capacity," said a spokesperson for the American Hospital Association.

Erick Blank, chief program officer of the Association of Public Health Laboratories, which represents local and state-run government health labs, said the shortages of supplies for tests are much the same as they were in late February, when testing first ramped up.

"We're pretty much still at the same place we were," Blank said. "Ancillary supplies continue to be a problem, and we can't get enough of them."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/coronavirus-testing-must-double-or-triple-u-s-can-safely-n1185881

The comprehensive plan is to invent the tests, then verify that they are accurate, and then produce them like crazy. It would be nice if the Trump administration had 500 million COVID-19 antibody tests and vaccines sitting in a warehouse somewhere. I am sure you will fault him for not having them. Maybe Biden can fix it in January!!!

More ignorance.  The technology for testing does not to be invented.  What we need is a serious plan to upscale what we already know how to do.

 

[homersapien 11,812]

2 hours ago, Grumps said:

https://in.reuters.com/video/watch/idOVC9VYR4V

 

Dr. Fauci on testing.

We cannot reopen the economy without extensive testing capability, period.

And of course - as Dr. Fauci said - testing alone is not adequate.  We need active mitigation as well (which is what the stay at home strategy is).

But the controversy now is opening up the economy - or in other words, relaxing the mitigation for the sake of people going back to work.  To do that without avoiding additional outbreaks will require both diagnostic and serological testing a couple orders of magnitude that currently exists.

Meanwhile, Trump is egging on protestors (against Democratic governors)  to open up before such testing is available.

 

[Grumps 3,706]

3 hours ago, homersapien said:

We cannot reopen the economy without extensive testing capability, period.

And of course - as Dr. Fauci said - testing alone is not adequate.  We need active mitigation as well (which is what the stay at home strategy is).

But the controversy now is opening up the economy - or in other words, relaxing the mitigation for the sake of people going back to work.  To do that without avoiding additional outbreaks will require both diagnostic and serological testing a couple orders of magnitude that currently exists.

Meanwhile, Trump is egging on protestors (against Democratic governors)  to open up before such testing is available.

 

Your first sentence is OBVIOUSLY wrong isn't it? The economy is reopening isn't it? Nice try!

Mitigation is the most important part right now. When there is no treatment then testing is not very important in people who are not sick.

[Grumps 3,706]

3 hours ago, homersapien said:

We cannot reopen the economy without extensive testing capability, period.

And of course - as Dr. Fauci said - testing alone is not adequate.  We need active mitigation as well (which is what the stay at home strategy is).

But the controversy now is opening up the economy - or in other words, relaxing the mitigation for the sake of people going back to work.  To do that without avoiding additional outbreaks will require both diagnostic and serological testing a couple orders of magnitude that currently exists.

Meanwhile, Trump is egging on protestors (against Democratic governors)  to open up before such testing is available.

 

Serological testing? Please explain yourself oh wise one.

[alexava 6,974]

31 minutes ago, Grumps said:

Serological testing? Please explain yourself oh wise one.

Do you seriously not understand how we could identify infected people who are not showing symptoms and reduce the spread? Hence getting back to normal sooner??

[homersapien 11,812]

53 minutes ago, Grumps said:

Serological testing? Please explain yourself oh wise one.

Explain what? 

What serological testing is or why it's important?

[Grumps 3,706]

14 hours ago, homersapien said:

Explain what? 

What serological testing is or why it's important?

Serological testing mean you are testing serum. What are you suggesting they test for? Are you referring to testing for the virus or for the antibodies to the virus? You are throwing words out there that don't mean anything. I am trying to understand your plan.

[Grumps 3,706]

14 hours ago, alexava said:

Do you seriously not understand how we could identify infected people who are not showing symptoms and reduce the spread? Hence getting back to normal sooner??

"Serological testing" for WHAT? It sounds like people want everyone in the country to be tested everyday indefinitely. That makes no sense.

[aubiefifty 17,492]

On 4/17/2020 at 12:02 PM, Grumps said:

That's a garbage article, almost like the writer has no medical knowledge. It doesn't even specify what type of testing needs to be done. There is a saying in medicine, "Don't order a test if it is not going to change what you are going to do." I think it applies here.

If you are in a highly infected area you should stay at home. Period. If you test positive you should stay home. If you test negative you should stay home. If you are not tested you should stay home. Testing does NOTHING.

If you are in one of these areas and you stay home for 14 days then you either didn't have the disease and are safe, or you had the disease and are better. Testing does NOTHING.

When there are approved antibody tests available to know who might be immune then widespread testing makes sense. But I don't see how it is a good idea to keep the economy shout down until those tests are approved and developed. Do you? You seemed to imply in another thread that Trump should not have shut down the economy.

there will be blood on peoples hands with that kind of thinking. hell why even have a health minister? oh wait trump fired most. the man gas wanted to fire fauci who it seems is the onlyone that has a friggin clue in the white house. by the way those emails popped up saying trump knew about the virus three weeks before they did anything other than order masks for the white house has killed a whole bunch of people who might still be alive if we had a different pres. oh. i am ok with the white house ordering protective gear for themselves.

[alexava 6,974]

1 hour ago, Grumps said:

"Serological testing" for WHAT? It sounds like people want everyone in the country to be tested everyday indefinitely. That makes no sense.

“Every day “is a stretch. I don’t know where you got that.

[Grumps 3,706]

25 minutes ago, alexava said:

“Every day “is a stretch. I don’t know where you got that.

If you get tested today and are negative that means you are negative today. Tomorrow you may or may not be infected. So how often should everyone be tested? Testing doesn't protect ANYONE. Staying away from infected people is the way to be protected.

[aubiefifty 17,492]

2 minutes ago, Grumps said:

If you get tested today and are negative that means you are negative today. Tomorrow you may or may not be infected. So how often should everyone be tested? Testing doesn't protect ANYONE. Staying away from infected people is the way to be protected.

yes it does grumps. and i am not being smartass here. the more tests given means more infected folks being taken off the streets thus saving a ton of lives down the road. why? because there will slowly being less and less to give it to our friends and neighbors. so i do not get you either. that is pretty simple i would think. maybe i missed something?  surely you see this?

[alexava 6,974]

49 minutes ago, Grumps said:

If you get tested today and are negative that means you are negative today. Tomorrow you may or may not be infected. So how often should everyone be tested? Testing doesn't protect ANYONE. Staying away from infected people is the way to be protected.

Man, I hope you are just kidding. I don’t think you are, though. 

[alexava 6,974]

51 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

yes it does grumps. and i am not being smartass here. the more tests given means more infected folks being taken off the streets thus saving a ton of lives down the road. why? because there will slowly being less and less to give it to our friends and neighbors. so i do not get you either. that is pretty simple i would think. maybe i missed something?  surely you see this?

Exactly. The LT. governor talked about reopening in phases. The phases can be more aggressive with testing. You test people who , by necessity of their job come in contact with the most people. I would start in nursing homes and hospitals. Patients too. Then Law Enforcers, grocers. School employees and students ( by start of fall). Then work your way out from there. Yes some people will get infected after a negative test. This strategy will not eliminate any further sickness. Our whole reason to shut everything down in the first place was not to eliminate people from getting sick. It was to keep the health care system from being overwhelmed like Italy. Except for the bigger cities I think we have done well. I think it’s time to start getting back into the flow of things in my area, even without the testing. Most governors have said large scale testing is key to opening back up. That is probably the only way we have a football season. Anyone who says large scale testing won’t help is paying way too much effing attention to trump. 

[Grumps 3,706]

Y'all are not this dumb. What did fifty just say? "the more tests given means more infected folks being taken off the streets"

People who don't need to be infected SHOULD ALREADY BE OFF THE STREETS. You don't need a test to stay off the streets.

alex is just exactly right, the reason to shut things down was to keep the healthcare system from being overwhelmed. If young healthy people get COVID-19 the healthcare system will not be overwhelmed.

Unless you test everyone going into nursing homes and hospitals every day then you still risk infecting people. We need the antibody tests but they are still being developed and tested.

[aubiefifty 17,492]

i am in agreement with the legit health professionals and some of the folks like cuomo that have been on the front lines fighting this thing than some rabid trump fans wanting to endanger other peoples lives with their carelessness. call me dumb all you want but you might need to look in the mirror.

[Grumps 3,706]

1 hour ago, aubiefifty said:

i am in agreement with the legit health professionals and some of the folks like cuomo that have been on the front lines fighting this thing than some rabid trump fans wanting to endanger other peoples lives with their carelessness. call me dumb all you want but you might need to look in the mirror.

Please read just this one post like you don't already think I am a rabid Trump fan and just read the words here and use your knowledge and common sense to come up with an answer.

You posted"the more tests given means more infected folks being taken off the streets" didn't you? My question to you is, if people who might be infected or would likely die if they get infected are already off the streets then how does testing them help?

[aubiefifty 17,492]

56 minutes ago, Grumps said:

Please read just this one post like you don't already think I am a rabid Trump fan and just read the words here and use your knowledge and common sense to come up with an answer.

You posted"the more tests given means more infected folks being taken off the streets" didn't you? My question to you is, if people who might be infected or would likely die if they get infected are already off the streets then how does testing them help?

i thought people had already answered this for you? why do you think most health folks and pols like the ny gov all worry about a second wave of this mess?you want someone that might be a carrier and not show signs go visit a nursing home and basically take the chance of wiping most of them out like has already happened? i really do not get you.i am being totally sincere when i say i hope none of your grandkids hang out with the wrong person and get sick. testing also gives a better count who all really has this mess.