Should we be sanctioning Venezuelan oil now?

[TexasTiger 12,947]

Are they less Democratic than Saudi Arabia? Russia even before Ukraine?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/united-states-to-reimpose-sanctions-on-venezuelan-oil-over-unfair-elections/ar-BB1lOxQH?ocid=nl_article_link

[Leftfield 2,607]

Started discussing this over on the main board. 

On the surface, I tend to agree with the move, though I'm curious why someone indicated a few days ago that the required changes had largely been met. That would have signaled to me that they had been moving in the right direction. I can understand coming down to push them further along, though, as their election is in three months. Lifting sanctions would mean Maduro could continue to abuse his power to get re-elected, and then when we clamp down in six months or so it won't matter to him.

I'm sure @Son of A Tigeris happy about this. I wonder if he, and the seven Republicans that urged Biden to re-impose the sanctions, will continue to back Biden when gas prices increase?

 

[TexasTiger 12,947]

54 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

I'm sure @Son of A Tigeris happy about this. I wonder if he, and the seven Republicans that urged Biden to re-impose the sanctions, will continue to back Biden when gas prices increase?

This why they were adamant.

[homersapien 11,385]

1 hour ago, TexasTiger said:

Are they less Democratic than Saudi Arabia? Russia even before Ukraine?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/united-states-to-reimpose-sanctions-on-venezuelan-oil-over-unfair-elections/ar-BB1lOxQH?ocid=nl_article_link

Good points.  I totally see the moral hypocrisy.

On the other hand -  and practically speaking -  I support our applying pressure however we can to democratize Central and South America. 

The more democracy and capitalism in the world, the fewer people who desperately desire to immigrate to the US to better their lives, not to mention improving our overall security.

[Son of A Tiger 561]

2 hours ago, homersapien said:

 

On the other hand -  and practically speaking -  I support our applying pressure however we can to democratize Central and South America. 

The more democracy and capitalism in the world, the fewer people who desperately desire to immigrate to the US to better their lives, not to mention improving our overall security.

There's hope for you yet. But better check cooling in hell because I was sure it would freeze before we agreed on anything.😀

[Son of A Tiger 561]

Gas prices are a small part of our problem.

[auburnatl1 4,953]

1 hour ago, Son of A Tiger said:

Gas prices are a small part of our problem.

How many of those items are sourced mainly in the US? Please google the highest inflation food items for any country and it’s almost the same list ps might also want to look at impact of losing Ukrainian grains to the world market. What do cows eat?

Biden has screwed up plenty but as for inflation: do people have a clue where we get stuff to their grocery store from? Ie do you think most of our orange juice comes from Fla/US?

Interconnected world markets are great and efficient - until something’s goes wrong (wars, embargo’s, pandemics, ect)

 

 

Edited April 18 by auburnatl1

[Son of A Tiger 561]

7 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

How many of those items are sourced mainly in the US? Please google the highest inflation food items for any country and it’s almost the same list ps might also want to look at impact of losing Ukrainian grains to the world market. What do cows eat?

Biden has screwed up plenty but as for inflation: do people have a clue where we get stuff to their grocery store from? Ie do you think most of our orange juice comes from Fla/US?

Interconnected world markets are great and efficient - until something’s goes wrong (wars, embargo’s, pandemics, ect)

 

 

This is long but you may be interested. It supports some of your points but not all. I guess the bottomline is that inflation is a complicated animal to deal with but all average Joe only cares how much things are costing while his wages aren't keeping up.

Inflation in 2023: Causes, Progress, and Solutions (house.gov)

 

[auburnatl1 4,953]

Just now, Son of A Tiger said:

This is long but you may be interested. It supports some of your points but not all. I guess the bottomline is that inflation is a complicated animal to deal with but all average Joe only cares how much things are costing while his wages aren't keeping up.

Inflation in 2023: Causes, Progress, and Solutions (house.gov)

 

People scream about illegal immigration but want their strawberries to cost less (who picks them?).  Yin and Yang. Global sourcing allow for minimal costs and other benefits (fresh tomato’s in Feb) but hurt local jobs and are fragile (again, Ukrainian war and tension in MEast). The president doesn’t affect where juice is from or its cost  - Tropicana does. IMO You can fault Biden for much of the border mess and the Afghanistan withdrawal fiasco. But inflation… people need to study supply chains a bit.

BTW who makes the vast majority of high tech chips we use in our phones. cars, weapons, refrigerators - basically everything?

Taiwan…..

[AU9377 4,960]

Imagine if U.S. corporations didn't shoulder the burden or health care premiums. That would be the largest reduction in mandated spending per employee in the history of the country.

[AU9377 4,960]

On 4/18/2024 at 12:22 PM, TexasTiger said:

Are they less Democratic than Saudi Arabia? Russia even before Ukraine?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/united-states-to-reimpose-sanctions-on-venezuelan-oil-over-unfair-elections/ar-BB1lOxQH?ocid=nl_article_link

The point is a fair one.  The truth is more complex.  Saudi Arabia has leverage that Venezuela does not. That doesn't make it right, but it is the motivation for the disparate treatment.  U.S. oil companies once ran Venezuelan drilling.  They have an axe to grind due to them having been expelled from the country and their assets seized. 

As for Russia, that is again a different animal.

[TexasTiger 12,947]

1 hour ago, AU9377 said:

The point is a fair one.  The truth is more complex.  Saudi Arabia has leverage that Venezuela does not. That doesn't make it right, but it is the motivation for the disparate treatment.  U.S. oil companies once ran Venezuelan drilling.  They have an axe to grind due to them having been expelled from the country and their assets seized. 

As for Russia, that is again a different animal.

US companies once ran Saudi drilling, but that’s not really the issue. We don’t buy oil if you don’t have fair elections? Who passes that test? Republicans would say even we don’t.

[auburnatl1 4,953]

1 hour ago, TexasTiger said:

US companies once ran Saudi drilling, but that’s not really the issue. We don’t buy oil if you don’t have fair elections? Who passes that test? Republicans would say even we don’t.

This is one of the areas I go conservative. Biden should not have cancelled Keystone. It was pure pandering. Rule #1 in strategic leadership: never, never eliminate options. Dont know what the future holds.

[TexasTiger 12,947]

1 hour ago, auburnatl1 said:

This is one of the areas I go conservative. Biden should not have cancelled Keystone. It was pure pandering. Rule #1 in strategic leadership: never, never eliminate options. Dont know what the future holds.

I rarely say never, but my inclination is to keep options open when it involves critical resources. Although, Keystone XL was about moving resources more than developing them.

[AU9377 4,960]

2 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

US companies once ran Saudi drilling, but that’s not really the issue. We don’t buy oil if you don’t have fair elections? Who passes that test? Republicans would say even we don’t.

In many ways, Venezuela is much less offensive to its citizens than is Saudi Arabia.  My point was that we need the Saudis for reasons other than oil production. That is the real reason we don't question their atrocious record with regard to human rights etc.

[TexasTiger 12,947]

10 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

In many ways, Venezuela is much less offensive to its citizens than is Saudi Arabia.  My point was that we need the Saudis for reasons other than oil production. That is the real reason we don't question their atrocious record with regard to human rights etc.

And with the Saudis already screwing us on production and Russia being Russia, it’s damn stupid to play selective principles with Venezuela, especially right now.