Labor Day & Once again, we learn appeasement doesn't work

[Tigermike 3,066]

Once again, we learn appeasement doesn't work

September 4, 2006

BY MARY LANEY

It's Labor Day. Time to honor yourselves, the workers of America. Time for parades and relaxation -- and time for a little reflection on history and the historic times we're living through.

We are at war. Our country is on an elevated security alert. Islamofascists are poised to hurt us, kill us and kill those they call infidels. We have a president who has pushed for the Patriot Act to protect us. Under President Bush, the nation now has the tools to intercept the international conversations of those who, for years, have been plotting heinous ways to kill Americans and others around the world. We also have a system of tracing international monies that would fund terrorist activities.

Yet there are those in this nation -- in the Senate, the ACLU, the far left -- who have opposed these protective measures. They've stated that the Patriot Act infringes on our right to privacy. They've stated that we should rely on diplomacy, more talks, more meetings and more appeasement of these rabid enemies.

This brings me to the history we ought reflect upon today. In a recent speech before the national convention of the American Legion, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld likened the opposition to today's war against Islamofascism to the 1930s appeasement of the Nazis. Both regimes are nihilists. Both want to rule the world.

In his speech, Rumsfeld quoted the late Sen. William Borah, who -- after learning that Hitler had invaded Poland -- said, "Lord, if only I could have talked with Hitler, all this might have been avoided." This is not dissimilar to Sen. John Kerry stating that if he were president we wouldn't be at war.

Today's appeasers believe that they can simply talk with these Islamofascists and all will be peaceful. As Winston Churchill said long ago, the appeaser seems to feel that if he feeds the alligator enough, "the alligator will eat him last."

We've seen what these Islamofascists are capable of doing. We're nearing the anniversary of 9/11 when they did what up until then had been unthinkable: flying passenger planes filled with men, women and children into buildings.

We've seen what they've done in Spain, blowing up train cars filled with civilians.

We've seen what they've done in England, blowing up buses and subways.

We've seen what they've done in Bali with their bombs.

We've seen what they planned to do with American planes taking off from England and bound for America.

Today is Labor Day, a day to honor yourselves for all the hard work you've done to make America the great nation it is today. But, have no doubt about this: There are Islamofascists who want to destroy you and all you've worked for.

They're not looking to take your jobs. They're looking to take your lives.

The president of Iran has openly said he wants to destroy America and wipe Israel off the face of the earth. He has defied the United Nations in continuing to build nuclear strength.

America has not had diplomatic relations with Iran since that country seized our embassy in Tehran and held our people hostage. Time for a little history here. Jimmy Carter was president when our embassy was ambushed by Muslim terrorists. Instead of taking action immediately, he wrote a letter to the Ayatollah Khomeini telling the ayatollah that the action would not harm relations with America.

That was the beginning of the strengthening of Islamofascism. America was perceived as weak. The ayatollah stated that America was a paper tiger without a bite. How appropriate to hear last week that Carter had expressed an interest in meeting with former Iranian President Mohammad Khatami when he visited Chicago over the weekend.

As you read this and rest on this Labor Day, do not forget that thousands of miles away, in the backwaters of the world, in Iraq and Afghanistan, there stand American men and women who are not resting. Instead, they are standing at the barricades, fighting the Islamofascists over there so that we will not have to meet them here, in our streets.

Before you grill that burger, stop for a moment and say a prayer for them.

They labor hard on this Labor Day 2006.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/laney/cst-edt-laney04.html

[Bottomfeeder 244]

Labor Day has nothing to do with war, a real war anyway. Unless of course you consider soldiers a part of the labor force, which they are not, they are public servants just like anyone else who works for the government. Labor Day has meaning to those of us who sweat for a living and are involved in Worker Rights movements. Something that most degreed professionals care little about as evident in your post.

Here is something to counter you lame post.

33 bodies found scattered across Baghdad Authorities found the tortured, blindfolded bodies of 33 men scattered across Baghdad Monday and the US said 8 troops had died, a day after Iraq said the capture of a top terror suspect would reduce violence.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060904/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

You see neither works with these people. They care nothing about democracy or liberty, so leave them alone or nuke 'em. Fighting them over there has only made things worse for us over here in every aspect of our personal, public and financial lives. Don't even bother to bring up that lame @ss 911 - "we haven't been hit again" argument either, it's just as lame as that rat-b@st@rd in the Oval Office.

[Tigermike 3,066]

Here is something to counter you lame post.

You would have to read and understand before you could counter.

[Bottomfeeder 244]

The fact that your post had elements of the war on terrorism in it proves that you could care less about the history behind the labor movement. While I agree with some of the content, it has no place in the same article with Labor Day. Sorry, I just don't see any justification for the tie.

[Tigermike 3,066]

The fact that your post had elements of the war on terrorism in it proves that you could care less about the history behind the labor movement. While I agree with some of the content, it has no place in the same article with Labor Day. Sorry, I just don't see any justification for the tie.

The fact that the article is not limited by your narrow and myopic view in no way indicates the points made are incorrect.

For the most part, when the country is at war, the unions are making big bucks. But then the unions are making big bucks no matter what.

The AFL-CIO leadership has given full support to the past military interventions of the United States, from the war in Viet Nam to the Persian Gulf War of 1991, the bombing of Yugoslavia and the invasion of Afghanistan.

Here is a little UNION history for your reading pleasure. But this info has nothing to do with the original post in this thread.

Former Union Official Pleads Guilty to Theft

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/ti...?offset=90&

UNION CORRUPTION:

WHY IT HAPPENS, HOW TO COMBAT IT

http://www.nilrr.org/corruption.htm

UNION CORRUPTION UPDATE

http://www.nlpc.org/olap/UCU3/05_15.htm

UNION CORRUPTION UPDATE 5.15

http://www.nlpc.org/olap/UCU3/05_15_05.htm

The labor unions do have a history with war. Or in this case being democrat shills.

Labor for Peace meeting in Detroit: a platform for union fakers

By Shannon Jones

12 March 2003

Last month a meeting under the banner “Labor for Peace” was held at the United Auto Workers Local 600 union hall in Dearborn, Michigan. The February 22 meeting illustrated the efforts of a section of the AFL-CIO bureaucracy to pose as opponents of the impending war against Iraq in order to orient the antiwar movement toward the Democratic Party. These maneuvers are being assisted by the Green Party and certain “left” tendencies that provide political cover for the trade union officialdom.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/mar2003/peac-m12_prn.shtml

[Ranger12 46]

BF...you may want to read the post. The post had nothing to do with the history of Labor Day. It was about remembering those that don't have this day of because they are fighting the war on terrorism overseas instead of us having to fight it here.

Don't get me started on unions, because the majority of them have completly went away from the original intent. I can give you a good history lesson on how modern day unions have done more to shut down the very same plants they worked in rather then help out the employees. Union executives sit and get fat on your dues while they do nothing. I have been in a two different unions before, in the textile and steel industries, and they both wound up causing more harm to the companies then good for the workers, who eventually lost jobs because of either plant shutdowns or cutbacks. I did not hear anything about the Union execs at the headquarters losing their jobs!

Don't get me wrong, some of the unions around are still good have the right intentions, but alot of them have become the same bullies they fought when they were originally created.

[Captain Liger 0]

Sam Walton had (Wal-Mart still has) a good policy for dealing with unions. Simply paraphrased, "If any store or distribution center forms a union, I will shut it down and relocate."

[Tigermike 3,066]

Sam Walton had (Wal-Mart still has) a good policy for dealing with unions. Simply paraphrased, "If any store or distribution center forms a union, I will shut it down and relocate."

Union members sure don't mind shopping at Wal-Mart.

[Ranger12 46]

Sam Walton had (Wal-Mart still has) a good policy for dealing with unions. Simply paraphrased, "If any store or distribution center forms a union, I will shut it down and relocate."

Union members sure don't mind shopping at Wal-Mart.

Badda-boom. Nice one. I'll have to use that one next time I get in a debate with an extreme pro-union advocate.

[Bottomfeeder 244]

I made a hell of lot more money working union than working "RAT". Union’s safety record speaks for itself, along with having workman compensation insurance for all employees. Unlike most the RATTY @$$ two bit contractors in the south, the union actually teaches the trade rather than word of mouth. The only reason you guys hate unions is because they dropped their tools and picked up muskets during the Civil War.

I could care less if Fat Cat Union Bosses make money, as long as I'm busting $100,000/year, I don't care. "I got mine, you got yours?" the Cheap Labor Conservative's mantra. Average nonunion wage for electricians in Lower Alabama is around $15.00 per hour. Hell, I make that screwing around with the market. Average Union wage for electricians, $20.00 plus benefits adding up to about $25.00 -$28.00 per hour still under par. Elevator Tech make about $27.00 hour on the check union (closer) plus bennies. Man, if your a tradesman, you can't make money working "RAT", and forget about retirement. Union hands on the job talk about investing their money, while RAT workers talk about chasing tail and getting drunk. That's a hell of a contrast wouldn't you say? Says a lot about the class of people, these rats. They come into work reeking whiskey and pheromones from the night before; and I want he or she to help me with hot work, I don’t think so. Stick that screw-up in that return air duct and let ‘em sleep it off. Jeez, what a place to be, freakin' drunks. At least when I got drunk years ago, I wouldn’t even show up, I’d call in sick.

[Tigermike 3,066]

That post really made a great testimony BF.

[Tiger Al 0]

Sam Walton had (Wal-Mart still has) a good policy for dealing with unions. Simply paraphrased, "If any store or distribution center forms a union, I will shut it down and relocate."

Union members sure don't mind shopping at Wal-Mart.

Most of the union members I know despise Wal-Mart and do not go there, myself included.

[Ranger12 46]

Sam Walton had (Wal-Mart still has) a good policy for dealing with unions. Simply paraphrased, "If any store or distribution center forms a union, I will shut it down and relocate."

Union members sure don't mind shopping at Wal-Mart.

Most of the union members I know despise Wal-Mart and do not go there, myself included.

Most of the union member I know shop there just like everybody else. Members from the UAW, Steelworkers, Textile, AEA, Defense contractors, electricians, and machinists. Probably a few more I forgot, but those came to mind first as I know quite a few people in each one and I see them in both the Decatur, Huntsville, and Hartselle area Wal-Marts all the time.

Admittedly, I avoid Wal-Mart as much as I can, but is has nothing to do with unions. I just can't stand waiting in line forever just to purchase one thing. Blonde Wasabi use to get all of our groceries there, but she has gotten to where she goes where the sales are and even uses some of the locally owned smaller grocery stores. But it is hard to avoid Wal-Mart because they have things you need that you will pay much higher prices elsewhere. Plus, our local Wal-Mart has redone their electronics section and has a freakin big wall full of Plasma and HD TVs. They are trying to compete with Best Buy, HH Gregg, etc. By what I saw of some of their prices, they are doing a pretty good job of it.

[Tiger Al 0]

Sam Walton had (Wal-Mart still has) a good policy for dealing with unions. Simply paraphrased, "If any store or distribution center forms a union, I will shut it down and relocate."

Union members sure don't mind shopping at Wal-Mart.

Most of the union members I know despise Wal-Mart and do not go there, myself included.

Most of the union member I know shop there just like everybody else. Members from the UAW, Steelworkers, Textile, AEA, Defense contractors, electricians, and machinists. Probably a few more I forgot, but those came to mind first as I know quite a few people in each one and I see them in both the Decatur, Huntsville, and Hartselle area Wal-Marts all the time.

OK. Most of the union members I know despise Wal-Mart and do not go there, myself included.

Admittedly, I avoid Wal-Mart as much as I can, but is has nothing to do with unions. I just can't stand waiting in line forever just to purchase one thing. Blonde Wasabi use to get all of our groceries there, but she has gotten to where she goes where the sales are and even uses some of the locally owned smaller grocery stores. But it is hard to avoid Wal-Mart because they have things you need that you will pay much higher prices elsewhere. Plus, our local Wal-Mart has redone their electronics section and has a freakin big wall full of Plasma and HD TVs. They are trying to compete with Best Buy, HH Gregg, etc. By what I saw of some of their prices, they are doing a pretty good job of it.

You still don't have to shop at Wal-Mart to get better prices. Go there, find the plasma screen you want and then find it somewhere else, show them what the WM price is and buy it there for 10% less. I got a sweet Dyson vacuum cleaner at Sears that way. Screw Wal-Mart.

[Ranger12 46]

Serious question here TA...do you only shop at retail outlets that are union? Maybe I am wrong, but there are not actually that many retail outlets in which its employees are union members is there? A few years ago, I worked a second job at Sears in Inventory Control and I do not recall any type of union for the employees. I worked at K-Mart full time right before I joined the Army and they had no union either. I am sure the same goes for Best Buy, HH Gregg, Walgreens, etc. So, what is the difference in me buying a product at Wal-Mart rather then another non-union retail outlet. Now I do try the price matching thing for a big purchase by going to a competitor that will undersale Wal-Mart, but alot of times when it comes to electronics, I have discovered that Wal-Mart usually carries things that Sears and Best Buy do not carry, so you can't do the price match thing. However, since we don't have a Best Buy in Decatur and have to drive over to Huntsville for the closest one, I have gotten Wal-Mart to price match things like DVDs, CDs, software, and games when Best Buy has something on sale that is cheaper then Wal-Mart.

I do recall, back in the early 90s, my brother working at Food World and he was a member of some type of union they had there. I don't know if maybe Krogers, Publix, and some of the other big supermarkets still do that or if that has went away also.

I'm not knocking you for the way you choose to do business, because that is your perogative. But just wondering what makes one non-union retail outlet better to shop at then another one.

I just have had bad experiences with unions in which one plant I worked at was shut down and two others made cutbacks that cost me my job. One of those jobs, the one in which the plant shut down, was a steel cutting plant and I was an hourly employee and a member of the union. They really helped me out there. The other two jobs, I was in quality management, and my position had to be eliminated because of cutbacks to the indirect labor budget because they had to meet union demands or a strike would occure. It was okay for the union guys to get more pay and benefits, at the expense of us lower or middle management's positions. When unions threaten to strike, they don't think about those things. The executives are not going to be cut back, that is for sure, so it is usually lower and middle management positions, that usually make about the same as the hourly employees, sometimes less, that lose their jobs. You can see my gripe with unions.

Now, the union at Delphi, plus poor executive managing, has caused my father-in-law, a hard working maintenance supervisor that has over 30 years on the job at Delphi and not a member of the union because he is salary, to take a drastic pay cut and he may lose his pension because of all those years with the union demanding more and more money. Hourly employees were starting out at around $20 an hour and most of the time topping out around $30 an hour for the same types of jobs in other plants in the area that usually only got close to topping out at $20 an hour. When a company is having to pay wages way above the average cost of living in an area, how can they survive for too long?

[AUloggerhead 2,255]

... You still don't have to shop at Wal-Mart to get better prices. Go there, find the plasma screen you want and then find it somewhere else, show them what the WM price is and buy it there for 10% less. I got a sweet Dyson vacuum cleaner at Sears that way. Screw Wal-Mart.

TigerAl, ... I believe you just articulated an endorsement for keeping Wal-Mart around. Long live the free market & competition!

[Tiger Al 0]

No, ranger12, I don't shop at only union businesses. I avoid WM because they are not only vehemently anti-union, but also have a poor track record with taking care of their employees. Remember what their big claim to fame used to be 15 years ago? They stocked their stores with as much "Made in America" merchandise as they could. Now, they are probably a significant percentage of China's GNP, who also has a pretty piss-poor record of labor relations. Wal-Mart has billions of dollars in profit every year with someone named Walton claiming 3 of the top 10 spots of Forbes wealthiest Americans, yet they still strong-arm the municipalities in which they move into to drastically lower or eliminate taxes paid to those municipalities. Kudos to Fairhope, Al. and others for telling WM to look elsewhere. WM also loves using undocumented workers, or illegals, which is something that I would assume would send most posters ballistic on this forum. On a more personal note, after the hurricanes last year while other stores GAVE or drastically REDUCED merchandise to National Guardsmen, the Wal-Marts I went to gave their thanks to us by letting us to the front of the line so we could hurry back to restoring the communities.

Here's an interesting read on Wal-Mart. Be warned though, it's from a bed-wetting libbie so I'm sure it's chock-full of lies.

[Bottomfeeder 244]

That post really made a great testimony BF.

It wasn't meant to be a testimony. Every RAT I have ever worked for was selfish, greedy and racist, or to put it another way, they had one of those stupid "W" The pResident stickers on their vehicle, or to put it simply they were New Republicans. There is a difference between Conservatives and these new Republicans. These New Republicans seemed to be economic liberals and social conservatives. If you don't believe me, just look at the foreign debt and deficit spending. As long as your involve with the Federal Government in some way shape or form of contract, you'll be okay, otherwise you get your own. FEMA as big one, oh man, are they raking it in. Another one is Homeland Insecurity, what a waste of Taxpayer Futures. I say "Futures" literally.

[TexasTiger 13,053]

No, ranger12, I don't shop at only union businesses. I avoid WM because they are not only vehemently anti-union, but also have a poor track record with taking care of their employees. Remember what their big claim to fame used to be 15 years ago? They stocked their stores with as much "Made in America" merchandise as they could. Now, they are probably a significant percentage of China's GNP, who also has a pretty piss-poor record of labor relations. Wal-Mart has billions of dollars in profit every year with someone named Walton claiming 3 of the top 10 spots of Forbes wealthiest Americans, yet they still strong-arm the municipalities in which they move into to drastically lower or eliminate taxes paid to those municipalities. Kudos to Fairhope, Al. and others for telling WM to look elsewhere. WM also loves using undocumented workers, or illegals, which is something that I would assume would send most posters ballistic on this forum. On a more personal note, after the hurricanes last year while other stores GAVE or drastically REDUCED merchandise to National Guardsmen, the Wal-Marts I went to gave their thanks to us by letting us to the front of the line so we could hurry back to restoring the communities.

Here's an interesting read on Wal-Mart. Be warned though, it's from a bed-wetting libbie so I'm sure it's chock-full of lies.

I'd love to see some of these guys wind up as Walmart employees and hear what they have to say.

Buy American! Good luck at Walmart.

[Tigermike 3,066]

No, ranger12, I don't shop at only union businesses. I avoid WM because they are not only vehemently anti-union, but also have a poor track record with taking care of their employees. Remember what their big claim to fame used to be 15 years ago? They stocked their stores with as much "Made in America" merchandise as they could. Now, they are probably a significant percentage of China's GNP, who also has a pretty piss-poor record of labor relations. Wal-Mart has billions of dollars in profit every year with someone named Walton claiming 3 of the top 10 spots of Forbes wealthiest Americans, yet they still strong-arm the municipalities in which they move into to drastically lower or eliminate taxes paid to those municipalities. Kudos to Fairhope, Al. and others for telling WM to look elsewhere. WM also loves using undocumented workers, or illegals, which is something that I would assume would send most posters ballistic on this forum. On a more personal note, after the hurricanes last year while other stores GAVE or drastically REDUCED merchandise to National Guardsmen, the Wal-Marts I went to gave their thanks to us by letting us to the front of the line so we could hurry back to restoring the communities.

Here's an interesting read on Wal-Mart. Be warned though, it's from a bed-wetting libbie so I'm sure it's chock-full of lies.

I'd love to see some of these guys wind up as Walmart employees and hear what they have to say.

Buy American! Good luck at Walmart.

I was in industrial sales for years. I sold American made products. The absolutely hardest sales calls I ever made were under the Buy American banners. Screw the unions buy American program. That is just another dishonest line of BS. They want consumers buying their goods but when it comes to buying American goods to make their goods, the cheaper the better and screw everyone else.

[Bottomfeeder 244]

I have decided not to help the RATTY cause in any way, shape or form. I'm going and get my ticket back because the RATT safety programs in this state suck bad. They smell like wet moldy wool. I never had a problem with drunks and drug addicts showing up to work a union job. If they did, they were sent packin'. As for the RATTS well, they don't care so long as the bottom line is black. You are who you hang out with, and I am not hangin' out with crooks, addicts and drunks (I may even have to leave the state to find clean-living honest people with whom to work). "If you sleep with dogs...", well, you know the rest.

[Tigermike 3,066]

(I may even have to leave the state to find clean-living honest people with whom to work). "If you sleep with dogs...", well, you know the rest.

Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

PS - Let's face the truth of the matter. The dems are piling on Wal-Mart because the DNC has decided to make anti Wal-Mart one of the planks in their platform.