Bottomfeeder 244 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 The AMT (alternative minimum tax) ate me alive in 2000, 2001 and 2002. The income tax is a fraud and the cat is out of the bag now. Hopefully, when we rid ourselves of this boulder around our necks, there will be nothing to replace it. No more pork for congress, and no more deficit spending for the military industrial complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKW 86 7,429 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Clintax When did Clinton raise YOUR taxes? You don't have to be successful at it to be scary. Sarah Brady has not taken my guns yet, but that does not make her a friend of gunowners. Clintax tried unsuccessfully to raise taxes. A smarter, than now, republican congress did not allow it. When did he try to raise YOUR taxes? 1993, and he raised them retrocactively to the first of that year. http://www.urbin.net/EWW/sigs/clintonsigs.html "I'll tell you the whole story about that budget. Probably there are people in this room still mad at me at that budget because you think I raised your taxes too much. It might surprise you to know that I think I raised them too much, too." -- President Clinton, WASHINGTON (Oct 18, 1995 - 20:48 EDT) You linked to a bunch a quotes. Link to something factual which references the specific taxing legislation. When did he raise YOUR taxes? http://www.ncpa.org/w/w74.html The link was for the exact date he said he raised MY taxes TOO much. Was your AGI over $140,000 in 1993? If not, he wasn't talking about raising YOUR taxes too much, because he didn't raise them at all. He was talking to a pretty well-heeled room that night. You are trying to tell me and others that we didnt pay higher taxeds due to Clintax. You are going to try and tell everyone on this board that we didint get a tax increase. The Democratic machine has just brainwashed you. Hell I show you a quote where Clintax said he raised our taxes too much. I had my taxes go from money back to owing $900 additinal federal. YOu can ask Bud Cramer if he remembers my taxes going up. I know his office staff remember my taxes going up in 1994. We did everything in our power to take that tax raising bast##d out of office. I went off in his office so loud I know his whole staff remembers me from now on. Clinton, in his own words: "I'll tell you the whole story about that budget. Probably there are people in this room still mad at me at that budget because you think I raised your taxes too much. It might surprise you to know that I think I raised them too much, too." -- President Clinton, WASHINGTON (Oct 18, 1995 - 20:48 EDT) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 12,956 Posted October 23, 2006 Author Share Posted October 23, 2006 Read you're own link. http://www.ncpa.org/w/w74.html I cited the information you gave me. As far as that quote goes, he was talking to the well heeled at a gala in Houston. Read the whole thing. http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/archives/whiteh...ial-Gala-Dinner It doesn't change the fact that if you didn't have an AGI of $140K in 1993, he didn't raise your taxes that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,499 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 You two both need to calm down and discuss the subject, not insult each other. I've edited both of your posts to remove the personal stuff. That said, Tex...is it possible that even though Clinton didn't raise the tax rates on anyone under $140k AGI that year that he jettisoned some loopholes or tax credits that people under $140k might have taken advantage of so it "effectively" raise their taxas even though the rate tables didn't affect them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKW 86 7,429 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 http://bea.gov/bea/ARTICLES/NATIONAL/NIPAREL/1996/0596gd.pdf Very tecnical stuff here. Didnt want to bore you guys with it. Included within the AGI defnition for 1993: Imputed income in personal income (line 5)is certain incomes imputed to persons by NIPA definition.3 These incomes are assumed to be nontaxable, but an unknown amount, believed to be small, may be in the IRS measure of AGI. Personal income wages and salaries includes three categories of wages and salaries in kind, the largest of which is the value of food furnished to military personnel and to other employees. Farm proprietors’ income includes the imputed net rental income of owner-occupants of farm dwellings; nonfarm proprietors’ income includes the imputed income of persons who participate in the construction of their own housing (the margins on owner-built housing). Rental income includes the imputed net rental income of owner-occupants of nonfarm dwellings. Net interest includes imputed income for services furnished to persons without payment by financial intermediaries except life insurance carriers and private noninsured pension plans. Anyone want to to give an answer as to ;[/b] nonfarm proprietors’ income includes the imputed income of persons who participate in the construction of their own housing (the margins on owner-built housing). Rental income includes the imputed net rental income of owner-occupants of nonfarm dwellings? This helps to explain the claim of $115K-$140K Levels for tax increases actually still hitting Middle Americans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Al 0 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 http://bea.gov/bea/ARTICLES/NATIONAL/NIPAREL/1996/0596gd.pdf Very tecnical stuff here. Didnt want to bore you guys with it. Included within the AGI defnition for 1993: Imputed income in personal income (line 5)is certain incomes imputed to persons by NIPA definition.3 These incomes are assumed to be nontaxable, but an unknown amount, believed to be small, may be in the IRS measure of AGI. Personal income wages and salaries includes three categories of wages and salaries in kind, the largest of which is the value of food furnished to military personnel and to other employees. Farm proprietors’ income includes the imputed net rental income of owner-occupants of farm dwellings; nonfarm proprietors’ income includes the imputed income of persons who participate in the construction of their own housing (the margins on owner-built housing). Rental income includes the imputed net rental income of owner-occupants of nonfarm dwellings. Net interest includes imputed income for services furnished to persons without payment by financial intermediaries except life insurance carriers and private noninsured pension plans. Anyone want to to give an answer as to ;[/b] nonfarm proprietors’ income includes the imputed income of persons who participate in the construction of their own housing (the margins on owner-built housing). Rental income includes the imputed net rental income of owner-occupants of nonfarm dwellings? This helps to explain the claim of $115K-$140K Levels for tax increases actually still hitting Middle Americans. Where'd you get $115K? $140K was the number cited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKW 86 7,429 Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 http://bea.gov/bea/ARTICLES/NATIONAL/NIPAREL/1996/0596gd.pdf Very tecnical stuff here. Didnt want to bore you guys with it. Included within the AGI defnition for 1993: Imputed income in personal income (line 5)is certain incomes imputed to persons by NIPA definition.3 These incomes are assumed to be nontaxable, but an unknown amount, believed to be small, may be in the IRS measure of AGI. Personal income wages and salaries includes three categories of wages and salaries in kind, the largest of which is the value of food furnished to military personnel and to other employees. Farm proprietors’ income includes the imputed net rental income of owner-occupants of farm dwellings; nonfarm proprietors’ income includes the imputed income of persons who participate in the construction of their own housing (the margins on owner-built housing). Rental income includes the imputed net rental income of owner-occupants of nonfarm dwellings. Net interest includes imputed income for services furnished to persons without payment by financial intermediaries except life insurance carriers and private noninsured pension plans. Anyone want to to give an answer as to ;[/b] nonfarm proprietors’ income includes the imputed income of persons who participate in the construction of their own housing (the margins on owner-built housing). Rental income includes the imputed net rental income of owner-occupants of nonfarm dwellings? This helps to explain the claim of $115K-$140K Levels for tax increases actually still hitting Middle Americans. Where'd you get $115K? $140K was the number cited. Well, singles do pay taxes last time I checked....unless you are named Snipes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 12,956 Posted October 24, 2006 Author Share Posted October 24, 2006 You two both need to calm down and discuss the subject, not insult each other. I've edited both of your posts to remove the personal stuff. That said, Tex...is it possible that even though Clinton didn't raise the tax rates on anyone under $140k AGI that year that he jettisoned some loopholes or tax credits that people under $140k might have taken advantage of so it "effectively" raise their taxas even though the rate tables didn't affect them? I don't recall such changes, but if that was David's argument, he could link to the actual legislation and demonstrate that. It's fine that you deleted his crap and my response to it, but the reply you edited of David's well illustrated that there will not be any intelligent discussion of this topic with him. The Republicans have done a great job at that time and since of distorting the facts of Clinton's 1993 legislation. One can choose to intelligently argue the merits of raising taxes on the top 2% of the population as a means to reducing the deficit, but that is not what we usually hear. We hear distortions that have convinced many people that Clinton and the Dems raised their taxes. So be it. When one's entire belief system is based on lies and distortions, facts are understandably very threatening. David's reply that you edited illustrates just how threatening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKW 86 7,429 Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 Tex, et tu? I TRUTHFULLY recited MY experience with the tax bill and then engaged you above with the incredibly deep TRUTHFUL answer. I did not want to get into the hallucinated garbage that went into the AGI figures. The IMPUTED income is about as far-out there as it gets. I am an Economist by Major from AU. I understand what is going in far more detail than you probably get from your Demwitted talking points. So please Tex, explain to the good folks what "imputed income" is as YOU seem to have complete knowledge of all things in the bill as Declared by your $140K reference. Since we have had these debates we always get to this point right here Tex. I admit I have learned from you very once in a while. I am about to bore half the board with this discussion, but so be it. I am tired of hearing the same BS Demwit talking points that were set out 13 years ago to lie to the American people and Tex has obviously bought into them 100%. Clinton, as is his reputation lied to the American people about the AGI in the Bill. He added something that was never part of it before nor since. So Tex, for once answer the question with facts, not your usual spin or denial. I have quoted the legislation. I have quoted it in far more depth than you. I have gleaned the lie for the folks to read. NOW, Finally, lets ready to explore what is included in the hallucinated AGI you claimed in this discussion. Explain the "Imputed Income" as part of the AGI you cited to your fellow board members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 12,956 Posted October 24, 2006 Author Share Posted October 24, 2006 Tex, et tu? I TRUTHFULLY recited MY experience with the tax bill and then engaged you above with the incredibly deep TRUTHFUL answer. I did not want to get into the hallucinated garbage that went into the AGI figures. The IMPUTED income is about as far-out there as it gets. I am an Economist by Major from AU. I understand what is going in far more detail than you probably get from your Demwitted talking points. So please Tex, explain to the good folks what "imputed income" is as YOU seem to have complete knowledge of all things in the bill as Declared by your $140K reference. Since we have had these debates we always get to this point right here Tex. I admit I have learned from you very once in a while. I am about to bore half the board with this discussion, but so be it. I am tired of hearing the same BS Demwit talking points that were set out 13 years ago to lie to the American people and Tex has obviously bought into them 100%. Clinton, as is his reputation lied to the American people about the AGI in the Bill. He added something that was never part of it before nor since. So Tex, for once answer the question with facts, not your usual spin or denial. I have quoted the legislation. I have quoted it in far more depth than you. I have gleaned the lie for the folks to read. NOW, Finally, lets ready to explore what is included in the hallucinated AGI you claimed in this discussion. Explain the "Imputed Income" as part of the AGI you cited to your fellow board members. If you honestly think you have presented a cogent argument, that speaks for itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Al 0 Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 Tex, et tu? I TRUTHFULLY recited MY experience with the tax bill and then engaged you above with the incredibly deep TRUTHFUL answer. I did not want to get into the hallucinated garbage that went into the AGI figures. The IMPUTED income is about as far-out there as it gets. I am an Economist by Major from AU. I understand what is going in far more detail than you probably get from your Demwitted talking points. So please Tex, explain to the good folks what "imputed income" is as YOU seem to have complete knowledge of all things in the bill as Declared by your $140K reference. Since we have had these debates we always get to this point right here Tex. I admit I have learned from you very once in a while. I am about to bore half the board with this discussion, but so be it. I am tired of hearing the same BS Demwit talking points that were set out 13 years ago to lie to the American people and Tex has obviously bought into them 100%. Clinton, as is his reputation lied to the American people about the AGI in the Bill. He added something that was never part of it before nor since. So Tex, for once answer the question with facts, not your usual spin or denial. I have quoted the legislation. I have quoted it in far more depth than you. I have gleaned the lie for the folks to read. NOW, Finally, lets ready to explore what is included in the hallucinated AGI you claimed in this discussion. Explain the "Imputed Income" as part of the AGI you cited to your fellow board members. Look out, TT. David's got edjamakashun. You should just trust that what he said isn't really what he said and that he knows what he meant because he doesn't want to bore you with details that you couldn't possibly comprehend anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKW 86 7,429 Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 And as per usual, the Dems back away when the rubber meets the road. Anyone want to explain imputed income and its effects on the Clinton AGI? Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKW 86 7,429 Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 http://bea.gov/bea/ARTICLES/NATIONAL/NIPAREL/1996/0596gd.pdf Very tecnical stuff here. Didnt want to bore you guys with it. Included within the AGI defnition for 1993: Imputed income in personal income (line 5)is certain incomes imputed to persons by NIPA definition.3 These incomes are assumed to be nontaxable, but an unknown amount, believed to be small, may be in the IRS measure of AGI. Personal income wages and salaries includes three categories of wages and salaries in kind, the largest of which is the value of food furnished to military personnel and to other employees. Farm proprietors’ income includes the imputed net rental income of owner-occupants of farm dwellings; nonfarm proprietors’ income includes the imputed income of persons who participate in the construction of their own housing (the margins on owner-built housing). Rental income includes the imputed net rental income of owner-occupants of nonfarm dwellings. Net interest includes imputed income for services furnished to persons without payment by financial intermediaries except life insurance carriers and private noninsured pension plans. Anyone want to to give an answer as to ;[/b] nonfarm proprietors’ income includes the imputed income of persons who participate in the construction of their own housing (the margins on owner-built housing). Rental income includes the imputed net rental income of owner-occupants of nonfarm dwellings? This helps to explain the claim of $115K-$140K Levels for tax increases actually still hitting Middle Americans. Here is the Imputed Income portion of the Bill. Any of our lawyer buddies want to explain it? Legal Eagle, how about you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bottomfeeder 244 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 I emailed Lew Rockwell to what his view is on this subject matter. DKW, I have to be honest, I didn't know about this subject, but I do now. I only wish I was as sharp as you are. This is crazy and fraudulant. The only way I see around this problem is to incorporate and lease all of one's belongings and services ("imputed rental income") through the corporation to a subsidiary of that same corporation. This way the corporation could name the value of imputed income and not the state. Check with an accountant and/or tax lawyer to see whether or not incorporating would solve this loophole. I use accountant that use to work for the IRS, so whatever I have coming or owe I know is right according to the fraudulant income tax CFR Title 26. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKW 86 7,429 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 What's that? Do I hear crickets from the Left now? Just rest assured, the $115-140K thresholds put forth in the talking points for the 1993 Omnibus Budget Plan were as full of fraud as they could be. It was a tax on the upper AND middle classes and we all know/knew it before this thread degenerated into the hog wash that is "you didnt have a tax increase." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Al 0 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 What's that? Do I hear crickets from the Left now? Just rest assured, the $115-140K thresholds put forth in the talking points for the 1993 Omnibus Budget Plan were as full of fraud as they could be. It was a tax on the upper AND middle classes and we all know/knew it before this thread degenerated into the hog wash that is "you didnt have a tax increase." Just out of curiosity, since you're the resident economic expert, when did this imputed rental income tax come into being? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKW 86 7,429 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Only for the 1993 Omnibus bill to my knowledge. The IRI was used more importantly in the talking points more than in the bill. The theory has been around for ages though. it is likely in a bunch more fraudulent economic poilcy on both sides of the aisle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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