Obama's Spanish > Bush's English

[WinCrimson 61]

Unidos con Obama...

[lukeduke 8]

That will come in handy when he grants all of the illegals citizenship.

[Tiger Al 0]

That will come in handy when he grants all of the illegals citizenship.

Wasn't that McCain's stance or is that another position he's changed since announcing his candidacy?

[RunInRed 16,438]

That will come in handy when he grants all of the illegals citizenship.

Wasn't that McCain's stance or is that another position he's changed since announcing his candidacy?

McCain has two stances on almost every issue - one before he started running for the '08 nomination and one prior. Talk about shifting with the political winds. Immigration is just another example in a long list. This guy makes John Kerry look like Mr. Straight Talk.

[Tiger Al 0]

That will come in handy when he grants all of the illegals citizenship.

Wasn't that McCain's stance or is that another position he's changed since announcing his candidacy?

McCain has two stances on almost every issue - one before he started running for the '08 nomination and one prior. Talk about shifting with the political winds. Immigration is just another example in a long list. This guy makes John Kerry look like Mr. Straight Talk.

The funny thing is, lukeduke doesn't realize what McCain's stance is/was but offers up what appears to be nothing more than a pre-packaged, Pavlovian response.

[CCTAU 3,335]

McCain at first thought it good to have an integration program. After hearing the public outcry, he agreed that folks do not even want to talk about anything until the borders are secure. I can live with that. He is still for the integration, but he does not plan to address it until the borders are secure. So he really has not changed on this subject. He is proposing to attack it one step at a time. And in doing so, maybe gaining the public trust back. I can live with that. My solution it to widen the Rio Grande and stock it with alligators and piranha.

I'm still not sure any dim has acknowledged the public outcry on this subject.

[arnaldoabru 11]

Aren't some Texas cities sueing over building the fence?

[Tiger Al 0]

McCain at first thought it good to have an integration program. After hearing the public outcry, he agreed that folks do not even want to talk about anything until the borders are secure. I can live with that. He is still for the integration, but he does not plan to address it until the borders are secure. So he really has not changed on this subject. He is proposing to attack it one step at a time. And in doing so, maybe gaining the public trust back. I can live with that. My solution it to widen the Rio Grande and stock it with alligators and piranha.

I'm still not sure any dim has acknowledged the public outcry on this subject.

So he was swayed by public opinion and wind direction. Don't you usually scoff at that?

[channonc 466]

Aren't some Texas cities sueing over building the fence?

Yep.

Texas officials sue US over border fence

By SUZANNE GAMBOA – May 16, 2008

WASHINGTON (AP) — Texas mayors and business leaders filed a class-action lawsuit Friday alleging Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff hoodwinked landowners into waiving their property rights for construction of a fence along the Mexican border.

Members of the Texas Border Coalition said Chertoff did not fairly negotiate compensation with landowners for access to their land for six-month surveys to choose fence sites. The coalition of mayors and business and community leaders is seeking an injunction to block work on the fence.

They also want a federal judge to rescind all the agreements with landowners and to order Chertoff to start again. The department has sought and won access from hundreds of landowners to determine where to build the fence and other barriers to illegal border crossings.

The coalition's attorney, Peter Schey, said Chertoff violated a 1996 immigration law that requires fair negotiation with landowners.

The lawsuit also names Robert Janson, director of Asset Management at U.S. Customs and Border Protection, as a defendant.

It was filed with U.S. District Judge Reggie B. Walton, a Bush nominee who presided in the criminal case of I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney's former chief of staff.

"They hoodwinked property owners" into waiving their property rights, Schey said.

"This whole thing has been built on a foundation of lawlessness," he said.

Landowners were visited by officials from Homeland Security, Army Corps of Engineers and Customs and Border Patrol. But the government didn't send anyone to advise the owners' of their property rights, Schey said. Some landowners accepted offers of $100 for access to their land.

The Homeland Security Department has repeatedly denied allegations of unfair negotiations, saying it has bent over backward to work with landowners.

The agency wants to build about 353 miles of fence by year's end to bring total fencing, walls and barriers to about 670 miles.

Chertoff said the Border Patrol has convinced him that the fence and where it is being built will be key to controlling the border. He said Congress has overwhelmingly mandated building the fence.

"We've had a whole number of lawsuits filed up to now with people claiming there hasn't been adequate consultation, and the courts have rejected those, because we have had dozens of town hall meetings," Chertoff said in a news conference. "We've had constant and consistent efforts at engaging with the public."

The lawsuit also alleges:

_ Chertoff failed to write and make public any regulations or guidelines on negotiation procedure and determining a "reasonable" price for access to property.

_ Chertoff has not written policies on how to consult with landowners about their concerns as required by a 2007 law.

_ Landowners' rights to equal protection under the law were violated because the fence bypasses the property of some well-connected landowners, including Dallas billionaire Ray Hunt and his relatives.

_ The newer law requires Chertoff to build the fence where it is most practical and effective but he continues to build where a 2006 law specified.

Brownsville Mayor Pat Ahumada said the mayors are willing to work with Homeland Security to devise alternatives to the border fence.

"They are determined to build a wall to appease mid-America," Ahumada said. "This is a political problem that's being addressed at the expense of all the border communities."

LINK

[CCTAU 3,335]

McCain at first thought it good to have an integration program. After hearing the public outcry, he agreed that folks do not even want to talk about anything until the borders are secure. I can live with that. He is still for the integration, but he does not plan to address it until the borders are secure. So he really has not changed on this subject. He is proposing to attack it one step at a time. And in doing so, maybe gaining the public trust back. I can live with that. My solution it to widen the Rio Grande and stock it with alligators and piranha.

I'm still not sure any dim has acknowledged the public outcry on this subject.

So he was swayed by public opinion and wind direction. Don't you usually scoff at that?

He did not CHANGE his stance. He modified it to first gain the public's trust. It's WAY different than just being swayed by public opinion. This was a way to compromise.

You guys keep reaching. On this subject he did not flip-flop. He amended. He is still a proponent of a way to get the illegal bastards legal. But in order to even discuss that, he knows we must close down the border first. In essence, he just made this issue a non-issue for the upcoming election. By the time we close down the border, he could have served two terms. The only people that will be forcing it are the dims and they DO want amnesty.

The folks suing in Texas are part of the problem. If they can guarantee not one illegal will cross the border on their ground, then I say skip them. If not, we must do what needs to be done. This is for national security, not a damned interstate or shopping mall.

[channonc 466]

McCain at first thought it good to have an integration program. After hearing the public outcry, he agreed that folks do not even want to talk about anything until the borders are secure. I can live with that. He is still for the integration, but he does not plan to address it until the borders are secure. So he really has not changed on this subject. He is proposing to attack it one step at a time. And in doing so, maybe gaining the public trust back. I can live with that. My solution it to widen the Rio Grande and stock it with alligators and piranha.

I'm still not sure any dim has acknowledged the public outcry on this subject.

So he was swayed by public opinion and wind direction. Don't you usually scoff at that?

He did not CHANGE his stance. He modified it to first gain the public's trust.

He amended.

Interesting CCT, I think modify and amend are synonyms for the word change. So basically, he changed his position.

[CCTAU 3,335]

McCain at first thought it good to have an integration program. After hearing the public outcry, he agreed that folks do not even want to talk about anything until the borders are secure. I can live with that. He is still for the integration, but he does not plan to address it until the borders are secure. So he really has not changed on this subject. He is proposing to attack it one step at a time. And in doing so, maybe gaining the public trust back. I can live with that. My solution it to widen the Rio Grande and stock it with alligators and piranha.

I'm still not sure any dim has acknowledged the public outcry on this subject.

So he was swayed by public opinion and wind direction. Don't you usually scoff at that?

He did not CHANGE his stance. He modified it to first gain the public's trust.

He amended.

Interesting CCT, I think modify and amend are synonyms for the word change. So basically, he changed his position.

Not when you are throwing out the term flip-flop. Try again.

[Tiger Al 0]

McCain at first thought it good to have an integration program. After hearing the public outcry, he agreed that folks do not even want to talk about anything until the borders are secure. I can live with that. He is still for the integration, but he does not plan to address it until the borders are secure. So he really has not changed on this subject. He is proposing to attack it one step at a time. And in doing so, maybe gaining the public trust back. I can live with that. My solution it to widen the Rio Grande and stock it with alligators and piranha.

I'm still not sure any dim has acknowledged the public outcry on this subject.

So he was swayed by public opinion and wind direction. Don't you usually scoff at that?

He did not CHANGE his stance. He modified it to first gain the public's trust.

He amended.

Interesting CCT, I think modify and amend are synonyms for the word change. So basically, he changed his position.

Yes. Modify and amend are synonymous with change. Anyone not on a steady diet of self-delusion can readily admit that.

This position was "amended" shortly after he realized that extremism on this iissue was necessary to have a chance at the republican nomination.

[RunInRed 16,438]

The irony is so thick - the same thing Repubs were criticizing Kerry for just 4 short years ago (his position "evolving") is now the same thing they are defending about McCain.

[channonc 466]

The irony is so thick - the same thing Repubs were criticizing Kerry for just 4 short years ago (his position "evolving") is now the same thing they are defending about McCain.

RIR, don't you know that the Republicans don't change their positions. They "amend" and "modify" them, which is definitely not the same thing! Only the evil Democrats flip-flop!

[lukeduke 8]

That will come in handy when he grants all of the illegals citizenship.

Wasn't that McCain's stance or is that another position he's changed since announcing his candidacy?

McCain has two stances on almost every issue - one before he started running for the '08 nomination and one prior. Talk about shifting with the political winds. Immigration is just another example in a long list. This guy makes John Kerry look like Mr. Straight Talk.

The funny thing is, lukeduke doesn't realize what McCain's stance is/was but offers up what appears to be nothing more than a pre-packaged, Pavlovian response.

I know at this juncture, both candidates are going to try and appease both sides of the issue by making it seem like they are going to try and reduce illegal immigration as well as provide an easier path to citizenship. By doing this, they are attempting to gain voters from both sides of the fence. I am not the biggest political junkie, but I do know there is an art form that most politicians use to dance around giving a concrete answer on controversial subjects.

My remark was simply an attempt at humor that probably should have been followed by or for some of the posters of this board who simply want to ridicule and argue with anyone who doesn't bow down before the great Obama, I should have place a THIS IS A SARCASTIC REMARK disclaimer. Forgive me, and next time I will try harder.