RNC highlights pro-murder wing

[TexasTiger 13,053]

For those of you who think abortion is murder, what do you think about the tiny pro-choice Republican contingent being trotted out front and center at the convention to represent what the party stands for to America?

[TitanTiger 20,530]

I don't like it anymore than those pro-murder Dems liked those pro-life speakers at their conve...wait...there weren't any.

[TexasTiger 13,053]

I don't like it anymore than those pro-murder Dems liked those pro-life speakers at their conve...wait...there weren't any.

So we agree that the Dems were honest to their base and the public on this issue and the Republicans are not. So as a Republican, doesn't it bother you?

[DKW 86 7,451]

I don't like it anymore than those pro-murder Dems liked those pro-life speakers at their conve...wait...there weren't any.

So we agree that the Dems were honest to their base and the public on this issue and the Republicans are not. So as a Republican, doesn't it bother you?

Dont you mean that the Dems went out of their way to portray themselves, the party of the extreme Left as Centrist when they are not? They once agan squelched the voices, the Freedom of Speech of Pro-Life Dems.

BTW, How does anyone defend not being Pro-Life?

[TexasTiger 13,053]

BTW, How does anyone defend not being Pro-Life?

I don't know, why don't you ask your pro-death penalty friends, but back to this thread. Do you think abortion is murder, if so, how do you feel about pro-choice Republicans being front and center?

[DKW 86 7,451]

BTW, How does anyone defend not being Pro-Life?

I don't know, why don't you ask your pro-death penalty friends, but back to this thread. Do you think abortion is murder, if so, how do you feel about pro-choice Republicans being front and center?

Not so fast there guy. I answered that one. Besides Pro-Death penalty has nothing to do with baby killing. Why cant you answer one for a change? Or maybe you already have...

[Weagle98 119]

Death penalty is a penalty for murder.

Abortion is a penalty for being concieved.

[TexasTiger 13,053]

BTW, How does anyone defend not being Pro-Life?

I don't know, why don't you ask your pro-death penalty friends, but back to this thread. Do you think abortion is murder, if so, how do you feel about pro-choice Republicans being front and center?

Not so fast there guy. I answered that one. Besides Pro-Death penalty has nothing to do with baby killing. Why cant you answer one for a change? Or maybe yoiu already have...

We've had numberous and lengthy abortion threads and your free to start another if you want, but you have not answered this simple question. The RNC puts pro-"baby killers" front and center as the face of the Republican party. Given the strength of your views on this issue, doesn't this bother you?

[Tiger Al 0]

BTW, How does anyone defend not being Pro-Life?

I don't know, why don't you ask your pro-death penalty friends, but back to this thread. Do you think abortion is murder, if so, how do you feel about pro-choice Republicans being front and center?

Not so fast there guy. I answered that one. Besides Pro-Death penalty has nothing to do with baby killing. Why cant you answer one for a change? Or maybe yoiu already have...

We've had numberous and lengthy abortion threads and your free to start another if you want, but you have not answered this simple question. The RNC puts pro-"baby killers" front and center as the face of the Republican party. Given the strength of your views on this issue, doesn't this bother you?

It appears as if they're selling out to appeal to those who wouldn't otherwise support them. Is the republican party changing its' stance on abortion?

[CarolinaTiger 0]

maybe the republican party is bigger than one issue...

maybe they tolerate multiple points of view on issues...not being narrow minded to the point of silencing anyone who doesn't agree with them...

it seems to me you dems should be proud of them, not taunting of them...

do the pubs have a stance on abortion in their platform? if so, what is it?

ct

[TexasTiger 13,053]

maybe the republican party is bigger than one issue...

maybe they tolerate multiple points of view on issues...not being narrow minded to the point of silencing anyone who doesn't agree with them...

it seems to me you dems should be proud of them, not taunting of them...

do the pubs have a stance on abortion in their platform? if so, what is it?

ct

Tolerating opposing views is great. But if you believe that abortion is murder, is being pro-murder just another point of view?

[TrueBlue72 0]

When Dems do it, its wonderful.

When Reps do it, its terrible.

So is the thinking of the narrow minded democratic leadership and their weak minded followers.

[TexasTiger 13,053]

When Dems do it, its wonderful.

When Reps do it, its terrible.

So is the thinking of the narrow minded democratic leadership and their weak minded followers.

What is the "it" you are referring to?

[AUloggerhead 2,255]

So we agree that the Dems were honest to their base and the public on this issue and the Republicans are not.  So as a Republican, doesn't it bother you?

I'm not a Republican but, if you would, allow this Independent to comment on this issue. Since answering a direct question with another question seems to be the norm here on this forum, I'll ask one of you.

In the partial-birth abortion procedure, just before the baby is born a metal tube is stuck into the back of its skull and the brains are vaccumed out so that the baby is delivered stillborn. I'm not up on all the legal definitions of murder, manslaughter and all that but, at the very least there are some serious ethical questions associated with this type of "medical care."

So, my question to you is this: if the sticking-a-tube-in-the-back-of-the-skull-and-vaccuming-out-the-brains procedure is NOT murder, could we then as a society avoid all controversy with the Death Penalty by employing this same procedure to ahem, ... terminate ... all of our Death Row inmates awaiting their turns?

[TexasTiger 13,053]

So we agree that the Dems were honest to their base and the public on this issue and the Republicans are not.  So as a Republican, doesn't it bother you?

I'm not a Republican but, if you would, allow this Independent to comment on this issue. Since answering a direct question with another question seems to be the norm here on this forum, I'll ask one of you.

In the partial-birth abortion procedure, just before the baby is born a metal tube is stuck into the back of its skull and the brains are vaccumed out so that the baby is delivered stillborn. I'm not up on all the legal definitions of murder, manslaughter and all that but, at the very least there are some serious ethical questions associated with this type of "medical care."

So, my question to you is this: if the sticking-a-tube-in-the-back-of-the-skull-and-vaccuming-out-the-brains procedure is NOT murder, could we then as a society avoid all controversy with the Death Penalty by employing this same procedure to ahem, ... terminate ... all of our Death Row inmates awaiting their turns?

As an Independent you must be really disgusted since your primary choices are a pro-Choice party and a party trying to put on a pro-choice face, thus obviously not uncomfortable with killing fetuses.

[MDM4AU 336]

I didn't realize one had to agree with everyone in a certain party to be a part of that particular party.

I don't agree with them (pro-choicers) on that issue and the man I plan to vote for doesn't either. But it's nice to know that just because they have a differing opinion on a certain issue, the Republican party isn't silencing them.

What does it matter that they "trot" the pro-choice Republicans out there? Should they just ignore them? Place them in the back corner of the room? Pretend they don't exist?

In definite situations, I am for the death penalty. As for abortion, there are some gray areas. As to the idea that just because you slept with someone (willingly), got pregnant, and you just don't want to deal with it - I think that is wrong and outrageous. Or, the woman in the article posted a while back that was pregnant with triplets and aborted two of them because three would "cramp her style." That is just plain disgusting.

I am a conservative first and foremost. So what the "party" does at their pep-rally...err...convention when it comes to this topic has no affect on me. I don't see the big deal here. :unsure:

[TexasTiger 13,053]

As for abortion, there are some gray areas.

I agree with you on this. But for those Republicans who are against abortion under all circumstances and/or believe it is murder, is "pro-choice" just another point of view to be tolerated?

[TitanTiger 20,530]

If they were up there touting a pro-abortion stance, then I would be upset. I don't believe any of them will be discussing or promoting abortion, will they? But allowing them to speak at the convention, even giving them prime slots to appeal to some swing voters doesn't bother me in and of itself.

[CarolinaTiger 0]

maybe the republican party is bigger than one issue...

maybe they tolerate multiple points of view on issues...not being narrow minded to the point of silencing anyone who doesn't agree with them...

it seems to me you dems should be proud of them, not taunting of them...

do the pubs have a stance on abortion in their platform?  if so, what is it?

ct

Tolerating opposing views is great. But if you believe that abortion is murder, is being pro-murder just another point of view?

texastiger thinks he's got a 'hot one' here....

you ask if being pro-murder is just another point of view, and my answer is 'evidently', given our nation's current stance on the abortion issue.

it's really a dumb question when you think about it.

there are 2+ views on an issue...singling out one of them and asking, "is this just another point of view" seems a little trite.

if your goal is to point out hypocrisy, then i think you've got a long way to go, TT. but keep trying.

the republican party could come out this week and adopt a pro-choice position on abortion, and if they did so, i'd be terribly disappointed. yet, i'd still look at the candidates and make the decision i felt was best for the nation.

[AURainman 6]

I'll bite.

No, I don't like Shwarzenegger, Guiliani, etc. who are pro-choice being paraded up there to represent the Bush/Cheney campaign. We've already established that these conventions are nothing but pep rallies for the undecided voter to get a VERY MODERATE (isn't that an oxymoron?) view of both parties therefore swaying the swing voters. That doesn't mean that Bush's policies are any less justified. That also doesn't mean Kerry's were either.

Picky. Picky. Picky.

[TexasTiger 13,053]

maybe the republican party is bigger than one issue...

maybe they tolerate multiple points of view on issues...not being narrow minded to the point of silencing anyone who doesn't agree with them...

it seems to me you dems should be proud of them, not taunting of them...

do the pubs have a stance on abortion in their platform?  if so, what is it?

ct

Tolerating opposing views is great. But if you believe that abortion is murder, is being pro-murder just another point of view?

texastiger thinks he's got a 'hot one' here....

you ask if being pro-murder is just another point of view, and my answer is 'evidently', given our nation's current stance on the abortion issue.

it's really a dumb question when you think about it.

there are 2+ views on an issue...singling out one of them and asking, "is this just another point of view" seems a little trite.

if your goal is to point out hypocrisy, then i think you've got a long way to go, TT. but keep trying.

the republican party could come out this week and adopt a pro-choice position on abortion, and if they did so, i'd be terribly disappointed. yet, i'd still look at the candidates and make the decision i felt was best for the nation.

Then you're apparently not one of those Republicans that sees abortion as murder. I know that all don't, but for the Gary Bauers and Alan Keyes of the party, I have to think that embracing the "view" that murder is okay must be pretty difficult.

It is not hypocrisy if you truly see the issue as merely opposing points of view, but if you truly see it as murder, then it can't be that simple.

[BamaGrad03 0]

1.) Abortion is murder. We always hear about the horror stories of a woman having to choose abortion because her life was at risk...the dems never parade a woman up at the conventions going "I met a woman in Columbus Ohio...let me tell you her story. She got pregnant...but was too busy to have a baby...so she killed it."

2.) The liberals say they are open minded on the issue but they really are not. The reps have given on the issue all the way up to partial birth abortions...now they want that too. And it pisses them off that they cant have that "option". Like its some terrible violation of THIER rights.

3.) No of COURSE Im not happy that there are big time pro choicers who are republicans. But how in the world are ALL the republicans in the world supposed to agree on everything? Oh im sure Dems ALL agree on every issue ever. What is your point Texas? Should we excommunicate them from the republican party because they are pro choice? In case you didnt notice, our party is not a single issue one.

Hey guess what...John Kerry said he is PRO LIFE...guess you should reevaluate your entire belief system. (But then again, that is only based on what he says and not how he votes...and even democrats know to disregaurd what Kerry says)

Here's what it boils down to...those people up there who are pro choice are not going to be appointing activist judges to make it legal to have abortions in late term among other things.

[CarolinaTiger 0]

Then you're apparently not one of those Republicans that sees abortion as murder.

???

then you're apparently not one of those dems that can jump to accurate conclusions.

ct

[TitanTiger 20,530]

Texas, I know you'd like to paint the lines in such a fashion as to trap us rhetorically, but you're not doing a good job. Many of us do believe that abortion is murder. However, we also recognize that about half the country, and some in our own party, have a "blind spot" when it comes to this. It's not that we have a bunch of people running around going, "Yay! Let's kill babies. Woohoo!" That takes discussing and civility. Which is why I disagree with many of the tactics employed by some "pro-life" groups and have never participated in any of their protests.

Personally, I think we need to do a better job of educating the public and, as Bush has said in the past, changing the hearts of the American people to value human life more in general before we can attempt to roll back or eliminate abortion as a birth control option. There are a number of ways to do this. For instance, instead of each side digging in it's heels, we could come to some kind of interim compromise. What if we eliminated all abortions after the earliest knows case of viability outside the womb? I believe that is 24 weeks right now. We've had babies delivered that early in pregnancy survive and grow up to be healthy children. Let's start there. The only factor that would be given consideration for an abortion after that would be if the life or permanent physical health of the mother is at stake. Let's eliminate partial birth abortions. They are barbaric and cruel and beneath the dignity of a civilized people. Doctors say the procedure is not necessary...there are other ways to handle a situation where an emergency late-term abortion is needed.

After that, we can start discussing abortion as a birth control method in general. But let's have some common sense. We've got to get people to realize that getting an abortion isn't the equivalent of removing a wart or scraping off a scab. Simply settling for the status quo because of the "give an inch, take a mile" mindset is damaging our nation's soul.

There are other ways to promote a culture of life obviously. I think one way would be for conservatives to back off on their objections to moratoriums or changes in the way we handle the death penalty. I'm increasingly disturbed by how close some innocent people have come to being executed. And for me, it's infinitely worse to execute one innocent person than it is to allow any number of guilty killers to live out their lives in prison. But there is a middle road. We don't have to take the death penalty off the table because I believe that justice demands that the taking of a human life result in the loss of the life of the perpetrator(s). But let's make the standard of proof higher than just "reasonable doubt" for the death penalty to be on the table. And let's consider a moratorium so we can figure out how to implement this ultimate of penalties with 100% accuracy.

All this to say, TT, you've carefully worded your question to box pro-lifers into a seemingly impossible choice of answers, but it just isn't that simple.

And finally, if you think the Democratic convention was an exercise in honestly putting forth one's face to the American people, you're beyond hope.

[sevenDs 0]

My opinions may fall somewhere between Loggerhead's and Titan's. I consider myself independant and this issue is one of the reasons why.

I am opposed to abortion, which is a change that came about when my wife and I made our first doctor visit when she was pregnant with our son. Medical science knows when life begins and we're not talking about removing a wart here. I used to think along the lines which Titan describes in his designation of when life is viable outside the womb. But life is dependent on the mother from day one. I am conservative here. But I am liberal in the method to stop abortion through sex education and the availability of birth control. I would trade numberous 15 year olds having access to free birth control to have back the baby that one 19 year old aborted. It's not my ideal situation, but it does work towards what I see as a greater goal, preservation of life.

On the death penalty, since it is included in this thread, I am opposed to it. Call me a liberal on that one. But I believe prison should involve an 8x8 cell and no TV. And weight rooms should be done away with. If these guys need exercise, I'm sure some hollywood Yoga instructor with a community service sentence can show up five days a week to lead class. I'm not saying prison is easy now, but it's easier than it should be. Call me a conservative there. The liberal response is empathy and thinking how difficult life would be like that. Would I want to live like that? No I wouldn't, so I don't break the law.

The main that frustrates me about our election process is that we only get two choices when November rolls around. Yes, there's Nader and the other little guys, but seriously, there are only two choices.