2011 vs. Clemson - Tale of 2 Programs

[DAG 33,980]

1 hour ago, imaolgatiger said:

I was at this game and we were kicking their AZZ! It was overcast and cool, but when the clouds cleared and the sun came out we wilted! This is the game that supposedly Chiz had Malzahn to cut back the offense and stop using the hurry up to help the defense. It’s my opinion that this was the game that broke the Chip/Gus coaching relationship and caused Gus to take a pay cut to go to Ark State.

Irony at best . Handcuffing the OC didn’t work so well, huh

[McLoofus 35,182]

28 minutes ago, DAG said:

Irony at best . Handcuffing the OC didn’t work so well, huh

Gus didn't appreciate it at Arkansas, either. Huh. Never really thought about that. 

[DAG 33,980]

8 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Gus didn't appreciate it at Arkansas, either. Huh. Never really thought about that. 

Exactly . It’s baffling how one can’t learn from past experiences..

[Tiger 8,822]

It really just means his point of contention wasn't really with a HC not letting his OC do his thing but more about "He's not letting me do what I want to do"

 

Unless he's just a hypocrite

[GreenDrazi 24]

We had no defense that year and it got worse the following year.

[keesler 5,924]

2 hours ago, imaolgatiger said:

I was at this game and we were kicking their AZZ! It was overcast and cool, but when the clouds cleared and the sun came out we wilted! This is the game that supposedly Chiz had Malzahn to cut back the offense and stop using the hurry up to help the defense. It’s my opinion that this was the game that broke the Chip/Gus coaching relationship and caused Gus to take a pay cut to go to Ark State.

I used to buy that notion that Chizik stunted Gus' offense.  But after watching his offense sputter for much of his time at HC, I'm not so sure I blame Chizik for "slowing down" Gus' HUNH/fast pace.  For some reason Gus' calls slow developing plays, substitutes constantly and has zero spontaneity or surprise in his schemes.   

[AUght2win 6,833]

3 hours ago, GreenDrazi said:

We had no defense that year and it got worse the following year.

The defense Chizik put on the field really was atrocious. Like how can the guy who coaches Dansby, Dontarrius Thomas, Herring, T-Will, etc. think Jake Holland and Kris Frost were acceptable linebackers. 

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

The 2011 offense should been seen as a harbinger for things to come.  That team averaged 14 points/game against ranked opponents, Vandy averaged 16.

Gus without a generational athlete at QB and a road-grading OL is worthless.

[McLoofus 35,182]

6 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

The 2011 offense should been seen as a harbinger for things to come.  That team averaged 14 points/game against ranked opponents, Vandy averaged 16.

Gus without a generational athlete at QB and a road-grading OL is worthless.

It's really weird that people forget how bad that offense was, and that Gus was still running it. 

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

6 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

It's really weird that people forget how bad that offense was, and that Gus was still running it. 

Some people will even argue the 2009 offense was good, somehow neglecting to note we averaged 18pts/game in our 5 losses.  Gave Ball State and Furman hell though.

[AUwent 3,748]

It just feels weird to think that Nick was a "once-in-a-generational" QB.

I think Nix can definitely be good, but his coaching puts that up in the air. It wasn't his fault when we struggled.

[AUght2win 6,833]

46 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

Some people will even argue the 2009 offense was good, somehow neglecting to note we averaged 18pts/game in our 5 losses.  Gave Ball State and Furman hell though.

Big difference. 2009 was very good within context.

In 2008 we went 5-7 while averaging just 17 points a game. One of our 5 wins was the infamous 3-2 game. Tony Franklin was fired in the middle of the season in a total fiasco, as Tubbs tried to convert a downhill run scheme to the air raid. That 2008 offense was the worst perhaps in Auburn history. Even 2012 averaged more points per game. 

So within that context, the offense in 2009 was outstanding. They averaged 33 points a game (almost double the previous year) with pretty well the exact same players! 49 against Mississippi State, 41 against West Virginia, 26 in Knoxville, 33 against a ranked Ole Miss team, 24 in Athens, 21 against maybe the best defense Saban has ever had, and 38 in a bowl game win. The 2009 offense was very good and there really isn't an argument you can make otherwise. 

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

10 minutes ago, AUwent said:

It just feels weird to think that Nick was a "once-in-a-generational" QB.

Maybe so, but if you're referring to my post that is not what I said.

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

3 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

Big difference. 2009 was very good within context.

In 2008 we went 5-7 while averaging just 17 points a game. One of our 5 wins was the infamous 3-2 game. Tony Franklin was fired in the middle of the season in a total fiasco, as Tubbs tried to convert a downhill run scheme to the air raid. That 2008 offense was the worst perhaps in Auburn history. Even 2012 averaged more points per game. 

So within that context, the offense in 2009 was outstanding. They averaged 33 points a game (almost double the previous year) with pretty well the exact same players! 49 against Mississippi State, 41 against West Virginia, 26 in Knoxville, 33 against a ranked Ole Miss team, 24 in Athens, 21 against maybe the best defense Saban has ever had, and 38 in a bowl game win. The 2009 offense was very good and there really isn't an argument you can make otherwise. 

Again, we averaged 18 pts/game in our 5 losses  (one of which was to Kentucky).  Put up a bunch of points against bad defenses.  It was a very average offense, though better than 2011.

Just because it followed one of the worst offenses of all time does not make it any more than it was.

[passthebiscuits 6,845]

That team had so many internal issues starting in 2011. (Dyer, Reed etc) Can’t take Chiz’ natty away from him, but he almost won it despite himself. But to the OP’s point, look at the direction of the two programs since that point. Now, if we played in the ACC, we probably aren’t losing 4 games a year either, so...

good post tho. Interesting to look back. 

[AUwent 3,748]

8 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

Again, we averaged 18 pts/game in our 5 losses  (one of which was to Kentucky).  Put up a bunch of points against bad defenses.  It was a very average offense, though better than 2011.

Just because it followed one of the worst offenses of all time does not make it any more than it was.

We averaged 25 points a game in SEC play. Granted that's including non-offensive points scored (drops to 21.25 if you just count offensive). All in all, it gave us a solid base to build off for 2010--while it's true we wouldn't have won it without Cam, he wouldn't have been able to win it without all the key pieces that were already there.

[AUght2win 6,833]

3 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

Again, we averaged 18 pts/game in our 5 losses  (one of which was to Kentucky).  Put up a bunch of points against bad defenses.  It was a very average offense, though better than 2011.

Just because it followed one of the worst offenses of all time does not make it any more than it was.

I just flat disagree. Nine of the thirteen teams we faced finished with winning records. One was an undefeated national champion. 

Tate rushed for 1300 yards. Darvin finished 3 yards shy of 1000 and Todd broke the single season TD pass record. We were 17th overall in offense nationally. It was a very good offense. 

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

Just now, AUwent said:

We averaged 25 points a game in SEC play. Granted that's including non-offensive points scored (drops to 21.25 if you just count offensive). All in all, it gave us a solid base to build off for 2010.

Agreed.  

[AUght2win 6,833]

2 minutes ago, passthebiscuits said:

That team had so many internal issues starting in 2011. (Dyer, Reed etc) Can’t take Chiz’ natty away from him, but he almost won it despite himself. But to the OP’s point, look at the direction of the two programs since that point. Now, if we played in the ACC, we probably aren’t losing 4 games a year either, so...

good post tho. Interesting to look back. 

In retrospect, did you or the people around the program see the fall coming? Could you guys see it start to get off the rails before it actually did? There were always whispers at that time that Dyer was a problem. Like a diet version of what Antonio Brown was in Pittsburgh. 

[AUwent 3,748]

7 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

In retrospect, did you or the people around the program see the fall coming? Could you guys see it start to get off the rails before it actually did? There were always whispers at that time that Dyer was a problem. Like a diet version of what Antonio Brown was in Pittsburgh. 

No inside info, but even before 2010 I was actively dreading 2011. I predicted 4-8.

Then, when we got a lot of extreme luck (onside kick against USU, goal line stand against MSU, Spurrier not realizing Shaw was better than Garcia, Florida fumbling two punts) and miraculously won 8 games, I thought it meant 8 wins was a guarantee going into 2012, despite all the problems happening.

Heath Evans supposedly saw it coming. If you look through PTB's post history in spring/summer 2012 he was definitely critical of the Chizik regime.

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

1 minute ago, AUght2win said:

In retrospect, did you or the people around the program see the fall coming? Could you guys see it start to get off the rails before it actually did? There were always whispers at that time that Dyer was a problem. Like a diet version of what Antonio Brown was in Pittsburgh. 

There were rumors of auto burglary when he was a freshman.  

[AUwent 3,748]

7 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

There were rumors of auto burglary when he was a freshman.  

Before or after the NC? That's news to me (well, rumor, but you know what I mean).

And that's part of what was so disheartening about Dyer. When he was being recruited he seemed like a model citizen. I distinctly remember thinking, "it's so nice to have a 5-star whose head is in the right place, unlike so many others." Seriously, if you gave me a list of 5-star recruits (that included him) and I knew nothing of what they had actually done in college, I would've pinpointed him as "least likely to be trouble."

[GwillMac6 20,671]

10 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

I just flat disagree. Nine of the thirteen teams we faced finished with winning records. One was an undefeated national champion. 

Tate rushed for 1300 yards. Darvin finished 3 yards shy of 1000 and Todd broke the single season TD pass record. We were 17th overall in offense nationally. It was a very good offense. 

I hate having to repeat myself but I will if people keep pointing to Chris Todd and the stat that he broke the single season TD record and use it as a example as to why we had a good offense that year.

Chris Todd is by far the most overrated AU QB. He was horrid in sec play that season. 16 of his 22 touchdowns came in non conference. The Kentucky game at home that season was the single worst performance I ever saw from a AU QB. He was dreadful. Even worse than Brandon Cox vs Georgia in 06. 

Also breaking any kind of passing record at Auburn is the same as doing it at a service academy. It isn't that hard. Historically we are one of if not the worst passing team in sec history statistically speaking.

[AUght2win 6,833]

Chiz deserves credit for the natty for sure. I love him as a man, and I know he truly loves Auburn.

But I do have to say, I always thought he lacked awareness. He came off as a goofy cornball. I was on campus at the time. I even tried out to walk on. So I kept a close eye on the Chiz. The corny slogans. The terrible, matching outfits and hummer limos on the recruiting trail. 

I just remember thinking "there's no way his players can take him seriously".

[AUght2win 6,833]

2 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

I hate having to repeat myself but I will if people keep pointing to Chris Todd and the stat that he broke the single season TD record and use it as a example as to why we had a good offense that year.

Doing it in conjunction with a 1300 yard rusher is pretty impressive. McCallebb added 500 on the ground. Fannin and T-Zach had about 700 all purpose yards a piece, too. Malzahn utilized everyone that year and it was fun to watch.