Rules question?

[Quietmaninthecorner 1,945]

I don't know where else to ask this but here.

Baseball...  Substitutions:  Isn't there a specific rule for  using a pinch hitter or pinch runner for a Catcher without the catcher having to leave the game?

Anyone know what the real rule is?  I can't remember for the life of me. 

Qm

[wareagle13 88]

If I'm not mistaken, except for pro ball, a player can be substituted out and then put back in the game as long as it is in the same spot he came out at in the line up. Correct me if I'm wrong. I do know you can do that in high school ball.

[AuburnTigers1 0]

There is a speed up rule in high school for both the pitcher and the catcher. But I'm quite certain that isn't the case in college. Once you're subbed for you're out. I'm not 100% sure, but fairly certain.

[Quietmaninthecorner 1,945]

The speed up rule/courtesy runner .

Thanks, now I can look up the details!!!!

This is really for my 10-12 year old team.  Our catcher (solid BEHIND the plate)  is the slowerst person I ever met.  I think he walks faster than he runs.  LOL    He can hit the ball to the outfield,  but the cut off man has time to get him out at 1B... pretty often! 

He hits well,  but he usually gets out at first.   On rare occasions that he makes it to first safely,  he gets out at 2B on the next hit....  even when the next batter hits the deep ball.  He can not steel,  and holds anyone behind him back on the bases.

We have to play the "stacked" team in our league tonight,  and I was thinking of invoking that rule if I can.  I want to slip in a speedy guy in the late innings if we have to.

[AuburnTigers1 0]

The speed up rule/courtesy runner .

Thanks, now I can look up the details!!!!

This is really for my 10-12 year old team.  Our catcher (solid BEHIND the plate)  is the slowerst person I ever met.  I think he walks faster than he runs.  LOL    He can hit the ball to the outfield,  but the cut off man has time to get him out at 1B... pretty often! 

He hits well,  but he usually gets out at first.   On rare occasions that he makes it to first safely,  he gets out at 2B on the next hit....  even when the next batter hits the deep ball.  He can not steel,  and holds anyone behind him back on the bases.

We have to play the "stacked" team in our league tonight,  and I was thinking of invoking that rule if I can.  I want to slip in a speedy guy in the late innings if we have to.

Dixie Youth?

[Quietmaninthecorner 1,945]

Dixie Youth?

Cal Ripken:  12 and under. 

[around4ever 4,139]

Good luck.  I don't think either organization uses that rule. 

[AuburnTigers1 0]

Good luck.  I don't think either organization uses that rule. 

Sometimes it's done on a league to league basis. Most are for the catcher if there are two outs in an inning and he is on base. However, no league that I'm aware if uses it even in the 2 out instance.

[Quietmaninthecorner 1,945]

Good luck.  I don't think either organization uses that rule. 

Sometimes it's done on a league to league basis. Most are for the catcher if there are two outs in an inning and he is on base. However, no league that I'm aware if uses it even in the 2 out instance.

Didn't matter.  We went down 0-5 in the first inning,  and came back to win it 8-5. 

My team played well,  but my son had a rough game.   Made a great play to get a batter out at second base,  but the Umpire called defensive interference on our PITCHER!?!  Runner was ruled safe.  The he had a 3rd stike called on him that hit the plate.  Then he got tagged out at second base on a fly ball (that was dropped) with no outs/ bases loaded.  Plate Ump signalled, but did not call, infield fly rule BUT... the field ump called my son out.   My kid walked 9/10ths of the way  back to first base on is way to the dugout, when we realized what was going on.  We sent him quickly to the 2B bag as the other teams pitcher tried to run him down.  He made a great dive and was finaly ruled safe,  but he was a bit embarassed over the whole thing for some reason.  it was complete chaos!

When the infield fly rule is used, it is not considered a dead ball situation  but  it should be in little league.  There is just too much confusion going on when bases are loaded and a fly ball is dropped by an infielder. Steel... GO GO GO...  come back,  tag up ,  do not tag up,  run.  You are out!  You are NOT out!  get back to the bag.  It was a mess,  and I have never felt so unprepared as a coach.

[AuburnTigers1 0]

Good luck.  I don't think either organization uses that rule. 

Sometimes it's done on a league to league basis. Most are for the catcher if there are two outs in an inning and he is on base. However, no league that I'm aware if uses it even in the 2 out instance.

Didn't matter.  We went down 0-5 in the first inning,  and came back to win it 8-5. 

My team played well,  but my son had a rough game.   Made a great play to get a batter out at second base,  but the Umpire called defensive interference on our PITCHER!?!  Runner was ruled safe.  The he had a 3rd stike called on him that hit the plate.  Then he got tagged out at second base on a fly ball (that was dropped) with no outs/ bases loaded.  Plate Ump signalled, but did not call, infield fly rule BUT... the field ump called my son out.   My kid walked 9/10ths of the way  back to first base on is way to the dugout, when we realized what was going on.  We sent him quickly to the 2B bag as the other teams pitcher tried to run him down.  He made a great dive and was finaly ruled safe,  but he was a bit embarassed over the whole thing for some reason.  it was complete chaos!

When the infield fly rule is used, it is not considered a dead ball situation  but  it should be in little league.  There is just too much confusion going on when bases are loaded and a fly ball is dropped by an infielder. Steel... GO GO GO...  come back,  tag up ,  do not tag up,  run.  You are out!  You are NOT out!  get back to the bag.  It was a mess,  and I have never felt so unprepared as a coach.

First of all, congrats on a big win. It seems like it was an outstanding game. Also, being down 5-0 and coming back to win sounds like a coach doing a great job instead of one that is unprepared. The advice I would give you about the infield fly rule and your base runners is just to teach them to stay put. If the fielder drops the ball they don't have to run anyway as the batter is already out so there is no force play. Chance are the ball isn't going to go far enough away from the fielder for the runners to advance even in this age group. Hope it didn't seem like I was talking down to you or anything. Just offering some friendly advice. Again, great job of coaching and bringing your team back for a nice win.

[mustache eagle 2,412]

11-12 year olds coming back from an 0-5 deficit!  most kids that age would have mailed it in at that point.

[Quietmaninthecorner 1,945]

11-12 year olds coming back from an 0-5 deficit!  most kids that age would have mailed it in at that point.

We only had one kid (a 10 year old) saying "we are going to lose this game" when we were down.  the others were not confident by any means,  but they held it together.

One of my batters hit a home run that was the hardest hit ball I have seen in this park.  It didn't go over the fence but it got pretty close. (fence is  not marked but looks like a good 300 feet)  The kid is a 12 year old pitcher/1B that has to be close to 6 feet tall.  Very athletic for a 6 foot kid. Strong glove, bat and arm.  He has the body type and coordination to be a big league P or 1B someday.  A really good humble kid.  They say that 1 out of 1000 kids you coach will make it to the pros.  After 6 years of coaching (last year I didn't coach)  I think I found my 1.

[Quietmaninthecorner 1,945]

First of all, congrats on a big win. It seems like it was an outstanding game. Also, being down 5-0 and coming back to win sounds like a coach doing a great job instead of one that is unprepared. The advice I would give you about the infield fly rule and your base runners is just to teach them to stay put. If the fielder drops the ball they don't have to run anyway as the batter is already out so there is no force play. Chance are the ball isn't going to go far enough away from the fielder for the runners to advance even in this age group. Hope it didn't seem like I was talking down to you or anything. Just offering some friendly advice. Again, great job of coaching and bringing your team back for a nice win.

Thanks for the advice, AT1

I panicked.  I coached 5 years,  and took last year off.  The park had 4 teams without coaches this year,  so here I am.  I am out of practice.  LOL  Mt old brain forgets things.  Lots of things!

Since the first year I coached,  it was the second  time I have seen the infield fly rule implemented.  Most other games,  the Umps didn't call it,  know the rule,  or just let it slide because the kids were so young.  It caught me completely by surprise,  and I choked.

I am not real upset, the whole scene was hysterical.  the most chaos I have ever seen on the field.  Coaches players,  umps were running around everywhere during the live ball.

[autiger221345162924 0]

Speaking of infield fly rule...my son is in his 1st year coaching a 7th grade middle school team and he put on a play during a game that I was very proud of.  The bases were loaded with no outs, batter pops up to infield...ump calls infield fly rule...the coach (my son) tells the runners on the bases to tag up when the ball hits the ground...ball hits ground and now everybody is running, infielder throws home to catcher and he steps on the plate and the umpire calls the runner out as he slides in.  But then my son goes out to the umpire as points out there was no force and the catcher did not tag the runner.  Umpire reverses his call which gives them a run with men at 2nd and 3rd. I ask my son about the play and why he sent the runners,  he says "no way a 7th grader would think to make the tag since their coach continued to yell 'force at any bag' before each pitch" even the adult umpire thought there was a force on....all those years of coaching him, maybe he did pay attention to something!

[Quietmaninthecorner 1,945]

Speaking of infield fly rule...my son is in his 1st year coaching a 7th grade middle school team and he put on a play during a game that I was very proud of.  The bases were loaded with no outs, batter pops up to infield...ump calls infield fly rule...the coach (my son) tells the runners on the bases to tag up when the ball hits the ground...ball hits ground and now everybody is running, infielder throws home to catcher and he steps on the plate and the umpire calls the runner out as he slides in.  But then my son goes out to the umpire as points out there was no force and the catcher did not tag the runner.  Umpire reverses his call which gives them a run with men at 2nd and 3rd. I ask my son about the play and why he sent the runners,  he says "no way a 7th grader would think to make the tag since their coach continued to yell 'force at any bag' before each pitch" even the adult umpire thought there was a force on....all those years of coaching him, maybe he did pay attention to something!

Genius!  I'll have to watch for that situation. 

while studying up on the  IFR,  I came upon this nugget on wiki.  Your Son's players are pobably old enough/ strong enough that this may come in handy..

Interestingly, even without the Infield Fly rule, it is possible for a batting team with a runner on first base (and possibly second or third) can avoid a double or triple play and in fact ensure that the result is exactly the same as if the Infield Fly rule were in effect.

This is true under any circumstance whereby the batter is able to overtake a baserunner before a force play is executed, even when the bases are loaded. The batter can run to first base and stand there while all other baserunners stay where they are (including the one at first base, so that both the first base runner and the batter are standing on first base). If the fielder allows the ball to drop, then the moment the ball touches the ground, the batter can advance toward second base, passing the first base runner and causing himself, the batter, to be called out according to rule 7.08H

According to rule 7.08C, this nullifies the force so that all the baserunners can stay where they are, and will leave the bases loaded if they were already loaded when the batter came to the plate

[autiger221345162924 0]

Speaking of infield fly rule...my son is in his 1st year coaching a 7th grade middle school team and he put on a play during a game that I was very proud of.  The bases were loaded with no outs, batter pops up to infield...ump calls infield fly rule...the coach (my son) tells the runners on the bases to tag up when the ball hits the ground...ball hits ground and now everybody is running, infielder throws home to catcher and he steps on the plate and the umpire calls the runner out as he slides in.  But then my son goes out to the umpire as points out there was no force and the catcher did not tag the runner.  Umpire reverses his call which gives them a run with men at 2nd and 3rd. I ask my son about the play and why he sent the runners,  he says "no way a 7th grader would think to make the tag since their coach continued to yell 'force at any bag' before each pitch" even the adult umpire thought there was a force on....all those years of coaching him, maybe he did pay attention to something!

Genius!  I'll have to watch for that situation. 

while studying up on the  IFR,  I came upon this nugget on wiki.  Your Son's players are pobably old enough/ strong enough that this may come in handy..

Interestingly, even without the Infield Fly rule, it is possible for a batting team with a runner on first base (and possibly second or third) can avoid a double or triple play and in fact ensure that the result is exactly the same as if the Infield Fly rule were in effect.

This is true under any circumstance whereby the batter is able to overtake a baserunner before a force play is executed, even when the bases are loaded. The batter can run to first base and stand there while all other baserunners stay where they are (including the one at first base, so that both the first base runner and the batter are standing on first base). If the fielder allows the ball to drop, then the moment the ball touches the ground, the batter can advance toward second base, passing the first base runner and causing himself, the batter, to be called out according to rule 7.08H

According to rule 7.08C, this nullifies the force so that all the baserunners can stay where they are, and will leave the bases loaded if they were already loaded when the batter came to the plate

This is good, I will pass it on to my son, I'm sure he will like it too. Thanks

I think its smart baseball to understand the rules and take advantage of the coach that doesn't know the rules.

[autiger221345162924 0]

Genius!  I'll have to watch for that situation. 

while studying up on the  IFR,  I came upon this nugget on wiki.  Your Son's players are pobably old enough/ strong enough that this may come in handy..

Interestingly, even without the Infield Fly rule, it is possible for a batting team with a runner on first base (and possibly second or third) can avoid a double or triple play and in fact ensure that the result is exactly the same as if the Infield Fly rule were in effect.

This is true under any circumstance whereby the batter is able to overtake a baserunner before a force play is executed, even when the bases are loaded. The batter can run to first base and stand there while all other baserunners stay where they are (including the one at first base, so that both the first base runner and the batter are standing on first base). If the fielder allows the ball to drop, then the moment the ball touches the ground, the batter can advance toward second base, passing the first base runner and causing himself, the batter, to be called out according to rule 7.08H

According to rule 7.08C, this nullifies the force so that all the baserunners can stay where they are, and will leave the bases loaded if they were already loaded when the batter came to the plate

Another story that caused our local Little League to change their rules... remember in Little League you can not lead off the base nor leave the base before the ball passes the batter. The penalty for leaving early is to return to the nearest empty base (i.e. runner on 2nd leaves early but batter hits a double, runner has to go back to 3rd because 2nd is now occupied).

This is the play: bases loaded, 2 outs, 3-2 count (in regular baseball, you send the runners) but in Little League the runners are not suppose to leave early, but in this situation you send the runners as soon as the pitcher starts his windup and this will pretty much eliminate the force at any base (except 1st) just as in regular baseball, but in Little League there are other possibilities:

1) pitcher stops in the middle of his windup (because he is not used to seeing the runners run           before the pitch), which is called a balk

2) Ball 4 is called (which is usually what happens because the pitcher sees the runner on 3rd break toward home and he throws a ball), so everybody moves up 1 base

3) Strike three...3rd out..inning over

4) the best of the options...the batter hits the ball, because the runners left early it will be very difficult to get a force at any base making the infielder make a play at 1st base and not the closest base.

3 of the 4 options are good....

I saw a coach do this when I was playing Little League and it worked every time,  so I try it when I am coaching (30 years later) and I find out they put in a special rule for that situation and they called the pitch dead and we replay the pitch and I get a warning...but it was fun!

[Quietmaninthecorner 1,945]

 

3 of the 4 options are good....

I saw a coach do this when I was playing Little League and it worked every time,  so I try it when I am coaching (30 years later) and I find out they put in a special rule for that situation and they called the pitch dead and we replay the pitch and I get a warning...but it was fun!

I love trying new plays.  I was all excited to try this til I got the "new rule for it" part.

In our park,  we have....Cal Ripken: 10-12 AA and  Cal Ripken: 10-12 AAA

18 players on a team (devided into two teams) .  I hate this and and not getting into that right now.

AAA is for the advanced players, and uses the same rule book as the pros.  our rule book refers to the MLB rule book except for a few rules.    FUll on:  lead-offs and stealing.  It is all out war.  The main difference is the 70 foot bases.  Teams are strong and it is extremely competitive.  There are a few World Series winners and runners up from the park in the last decade from the AAA teams.

AA  (60 foot bases no lead off no steal until ball crosses plate) is for players that have only been playing a couple years,  those that are not coordinated  and those that are physically  immature.  Our team calls it "development".  Other teams call it AA    We try to get the players that we can ready for AAA next year in this AA part of our team.  We are hoping not to have to use any of our AAA players in AA games.  We are also hoping the other coaches follow suit.  The competition is watered down a bit here,  but baseball is baseball.  Everyone wants to win.  and everyone's kid is a star!

So I can take advantage of rules that both allow and disallow lead-offs and steals.

Keep the rule using tips coming.

[autiger221345162924 0]

That is interesting about Cal Ripkin League. The park I coached Little League at 15 years ago has now change to CR and I have wondered what some of the differences were.

Things change...and I keep getting older, but as you said baseball is baseball, sometimes you have to forget the politics and just enjoy the game.

War Eagle

[Quietmaninthecorner 1,945]

Wheew,  Pulled another game out on AAA tonight.  Had to come from behind again.

The AA team  demolished the competition tonight.

we are 2-0 and 2-0.

2 games tomorrow and 2 on Sat. We are running out of pitchers.  Too many games in too short a period.

aslo.... too many 2's to's and too's in this post.

[AuburnTigers1 0]

Wheew,  Pulled another game out on AAA tonight.  Had to come from behind again.

The AA team  demolished the competition tonight.

we are 2-0 and 2-0.

2 games tomorrow and 2 on Sat. We are running out of pitchers.  Too many games in too short a period.

aslo.... too many 2's to's and too's in this post.

So how does that work? Are you responsible for coaching both teams?

[Quietmaninthecorner 1,945]

Wheew,  Pulled another game out on AAA tonight.  Had to come from behind again.

The AA team  demolished the competition tonight.

we are 2-0 and 2-0.

2 games tomorrow and 2 on Sat. We are running out of pitchers.  Too many games in too short a period.

aslo.... too many 2's to's and too's in this post.

So how does that work? Are you responsible for coaching both teams?

Yes it is like managing two teams.    It stinks for the players,  coaches,  and parents.

12 innings of baseball a night.  I am lucky to have lots of knowlegible and helpful parents.

[AuburnTigers1 0]

Wheew,  Pulled another game out on AAA tonight.  Had to come from behind again.

The AA team  demolished the competition tonight.

we are 2-0 and 2-0.

2 games tomorrow and 2 on Sat. We are running out of pitchers.  Too many games in too short a period.

aslo.... too many 2's to's and too's in this post.

So how does that work? Are you responsible for coaching both teams?

Yes it is like managing two teams.    It stinks for the players,  coaches,  and parents.

12 innings of baseball a night.  I am lucky to have lots of knowlegible and helpful parents.

That's crazy. It's hard enough coaching one group of kids. Much less juggling two! You have fun with that! Haha!

[Quietmaninthecorner 1,945]

As of now,  our AAA is 4-0 and AA is 3-1.  We are not the most talented team out there,  but our team has become very close.  They kind of remind me of "hard fighting soldiers"  from 2004.