You want some proof that the number of stars don't really mean that much in the long run?

[BigSammyK 171]

Johnny Manziel was a 3-star according to both Scout and Rivals.

[21 flames 0]

25 5- stars

approx. 250- 4 stars

approx 500- 3 stars

It shouldn't surprise anyone that a 3-star player would win an award there are more of them. But to say that stars don't mean much is kinda inaccurate. You're right it doesn't limit a person's ability. But the recruiting services are not as bad at predicting success as you would think. If you look at the 2011 NFL Draft, there were 18 4 or 5- star players drafted. So a higher percentage of 4 & 5-star players are being drafted. So, I can't knock the recruiting service too much.

http://michigan.scout.com/2/1068188.html

[IronMan70 3,277]

Recruiting rankings ? There must be something else.

Rivals Team Rankings:

Year......AU......TA&M....Ms St....Ole Miss

2009.....19..........22.........25..........18

2010.....4...........17.........38...........18

2011.....7...........27.........44...........19

2012....10.........15..........30...........40

Avg......10.........20..........34...........24

2012 scores:

Auburn 21, TA&M 63

Auburn 10, Miss St. 28

Auburn 20, Ole Miss 41

[aubfaninga 16]

Recruiting rankings ? There must be something else.

Rivals Team Rankings:

Year......AU......TA&M....Ms St....Ole Miss

2009.....19..........22.........25..........18

2010.....4...........17.........38...........18

2011.....7...........27.........44...........19

2012....10.........15..........30...........40

Avg......10.........20..........34...........24

2012 scores:

Auburn 21, TA&M 63

Auburn 10, Miss St. 28

Auburn 20, Ole Miss 41

4 Teams with the highest recruiting class average over the past 5 years

Alabama, Georgia, Florida, LSU

Care to tell me how that worked out this year?

[IronMan70 3,277]

Recruiting rankings ? There must be something else.

Rivals Team Rankings:

Year......AU......TA&M....Ms St....Ole Miss

2009.....19..........22.........25..........18

2010.....4...........17.........38...........18

2011.....7...........27.........44...........19

2012....10.........15..........30...........40

Avg......10.........20..........34...........24

2012 scores:

Auburn 21, TA&M 63

Auburn 10, Miss St. 28

Auburn 20, Ole Miss 41

4 Teams with the highest recruiting class average over the past 5 years

Alabama, Georgia, Florida, LSU

Care to tell me how that worked out this year?

So you agree then that there is something else, like coaching perhaps ? Care to tell me how that worked out this year ?

[TheBlueVue 177]

recruiting is an mportant part of the equation, theres no discounting that, however, its not the be all end all to having a championship caliber footbal team...see Auburn 2012 if you want to argue that. Coaching is more important because w/o it 5* potential isn't developed but with it 3 star talent ends up being all conference etc. Arguing percentages of this or that is silly. Bottom line is it takes effective efforts on both fronts to consistently field championship caliber teams. I will say that I'd rather have an excellent coach than an excellent recruiter.

[leglessdan 1,934]

recruiting is an mportant part of the equation, theres no discounting that, however, its not the be all end all to having a championship caliber footbal team...see Auburn 2012 if you want to argue that. Coaching is more important because w/o it 5* potential isn't developed but with it 3 star talent ends up being all conference etc. Arguing percentages of this or that is silly. Bottom line is it takes effective efforts on both fronts to consistently field championship caliber teams. I will say that I'd rather have an excellent coach than an excellent recruiter.

+1

[ellitor 33,114]

Johnny Manziel was a 3-star according to both Scout and Rivals.

That's not proof. There are tens of thousands of high school players entering college each year so there is no way the services will be right on all individual players. But we can't even look at it in a micro level like that anyway. It must be looked at from the macro level and Proof from the macro level speaks to the opposite of your thesis. In the BCS era every BCS Champion has had top ten recruiting classes leading up to their title year. Furthermore, other than Va. Tech with Mike Vick, every loser of the BCS title game also were getting top ten classes.Between the 2 categories that is 27 of 28 teams that were bringing in top talent. So if you want to compete for Championships you better be bringing in top talent.

[fishhawkeagle 0]

Its like saying that since the Delaware Bluehens have 4 players in the NFL and DeMarcus Ware went to Troy the rankings are all garbage. Wrong.

[TheBlueVue 177]

Its like saying that since the Delaware Bluehens have 4 players in the NFL and DeMarcus Ware went to Troy the rankings are all garbage. Wrong.

I think that assessment is a little extreme. making it to the pros is on the player not his stars or lack thereof. Lots of guys nobody thought would make it did..ie Tom Brady who was the last QB taken in the draft he was taken in. Stars are not a guarantee of future success for team or player

[rockfordpi 91]

Guys, it is ALL probability. Some 4-5 Stars don't pan out, some 2-3 stars become all-american. However, as E said, on a percentage basis, a LOT more 4-5 stars become high draft picks and all american than do 2-3 stars.

So, on occasion, you may end up with a team full of 3 star players that is very good, but the probability of that is much lower than say a team with the talent UAT has.

YES, coaching is critical as well, but that alone is not enough.

People don't realize, NS has had a full 85 on scholarship since he has been down there. So, when you have 85, if you miss on some, it doesn't kill you. It also means that in every position, you have a highly rated guy pushing the starter for PT.

While there may have been other problems, one of the things that hampered us over the last 4 years is we were never able to get our total numbers back to where they needed to be. Through no fault of his own, CGC only had 55 on scholarship his first year. he started out in the hole and the next year he lost 30 players. We were the equivalent of a team coming off probation.

People do not want to hear this, but it is the truth. How much that impacted our record last year, I don't know.

[IronMan70 3,277]

While recruiting top talent is the life blood of a top program and I want the best players at Auburn we can get, what I and others are saying is that it puts the cart before the horse. Recruiting top coaches that can develop players, which is even more critical in your position coaches, must come first on the priority list.

Good

1. top coaches

2. top recruits

3. = top player development

4. = high % of success

Not so good

1. top recruits

2. mediocre coaches

3. = mediocre player development

4. = low % of success

[1auburn1 1,120]

Oh boy. Here we go again with the "we're better off with 3* players than with 5* players...".

[WarAJEagle 5]

Wasn't Nick Fairley a 3 star coming out of HS?

[NoALtiger 3,873]

25 5- stars

approx. 250- 4 stars

approx 500- 3 stars

It shouldn't surprise anyone that a 3-star player would win an award there are more of them. But to say that stars don't mean much is kinda inaccurate. You're right it doesn't limit a person's ability. But the recruiting services are not as bad at predicting success as you would think. If you look at the 2011 NFL Draft, there were 18 4 or 5- star players drafted. So a higher percentage of 4 & 5-star players are being drafted. So, I can't knock the recruiting service too much.

http://michigan.scout.com/2/1068188.html

Nice post

[ellitor 33,114]

Bottom Line to this whole discussion is this. Getting top talent and having great coaching are equally very important.

[BigSammyK 171]

Bottom Line to this whole discussion is this. Getting top talent and having great coaching are equally very important.

That was really the point I wanted to get across. I realize now I should have worded the topic differently.

[autodd03 0]

Guys, I think we can survive fine if the class ends ranked 15-18 this year. It will be imperative for us to get back to top 8 the next year though.

[21 flames 0]

Bottom Line to this whole discussion is this. Getting top talent and having great coaching are equally very important.

That was really the point I wanted to get across. I realize now I should have worded the topic differently.

Sorry, that we all took it wrong.

[aubfaninga 16]

4 Teams with the highest recruiting class average over the past 5 years

Alabama, Georgia, Florida, LSU

Care to tell me how that worked out this year?

So you agree then that there is something else, like coaching perhaps ? Care to tell me how that worked out this year ?

I bet you can't find one post that I have made that stated coaching is not important. I have been a youth football coach for most of my adult life. I just would love for Auburn to land 5 or more 4 and 5 star recruits every year.

I like to think that I am a descent coach and do a good job getting my kids prepared and in a position to win everytime we step on the field. I have just had ALOT more wins when I have had more talent than our opponent.

[im4au 44]

We'll do fine and Gus will get players he wants. He's already said he's not star focused. Interesting factoid that speaks volumes about recognizing and developing talent. Mack Brown recruited the last two Heisman winners - as defensive backs.

[aubfaninga 16]

We'll do fine and Gus will get players he wants. He's already said he's not star focused. Interesting factoid that speaks volumes about recognizing and developing talent. Mack Brown recruited the last two Heisman winners - as defensive backs.

Yes, we will be fine and Gus will get recruits to Auburn. Not being "star focused" and recruiting players that just happen to be 5 star rated can be the same thing. He did not recruit Khiel Frazier because he was a 4 star, he recruited him because he thought he was the best QB in the nation. (which would have made him a 5 star in CGM's mind)

[bird36 5]

To win championships in the SEC you need both good recruiting and good player development. You can not win without both of these it is like asking what is more important putting gas in the car or putting the key in the ignition. You are not going anywhere without both.

CGM is putting some good recruiters on the Staff, and he will hire some more. He is going to recruit OK.

[stealthyfan 124]

Bottom Line to this whole discussion is this. Getting top talent and having great coaching are equally very important.

I'd lean on the coaching side a bit heavier that rated top talent - an obvious observation perhaps, but instilling the team unity and executing the game plan, let alone sideline adjustments, seem to produce over achievers . . .

[Wrights_Mill_Road 2]

sometimes those 3* kids are great. take jonathan wallace for example.