Guest NC1406 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 3 hours ago, japantiger said: The Welfare programs are where all the money is Ichy..$2.4T...stop ignoring it.....there is no such thing as mandatory....every $$ is a choice...you're just a pathetic tool of the political interest group that made up the slogan that something the Fed does is mandatory in the interest of getting votes. If you won't accept that basic fact, we are done. Actually offer a proposal and drop the McGovern platitudes. Nothing I proposed above was a platitude or is out of bounds...are you seriously telling me you think we still need a military branch that was founded due to the cold war need for a strategic bomber command? Really? You buy that s***? You think the Marines aren't redundant (as much as this pains me to say)? All it takes is the courage to challenge the runaway train that is the gov't Status Quo.... Glad you think my anger is compelling....I get that way when people piss away what I work so hard for...and the legacy of my children....and I especially get pissed off at pajama-boy tools that think they are entitled to what I earn. Gov't is about confiscation and plunder...it has nothing to do with fairness. “Government is like fire, a dangerous servant and a fearful master.” GW.... Gov't is a parasite that needs to be constrained and entrusted only with what we think can be wasted...because that is what will happen to whatever it is given. Anything as remote and unaccountable as the US Fed will never function effectively and will be rife with corruption, waste and do relatively little good. We did a hell of a lot more with a hell of a lot less in the past...we could do it again. Interesting. Disagree with getting rid of the Marine Corps. The Marines get more done with less resources than any other military branch. Not bad for a division of the Navy. Maybe teach the other branches to achieve what the Marines do with the same resources. Laugh my ass off when my kids come around and talk about their recent "assignments" and then compare what equipment they had to carry out the said missions. Will just say the Army is much better equipped even when tackling missions that don't require the latest and greatest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japantiger 4,051 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 2 hours ago, icanthearyou said: B.S. You are a liar, again. Entitlements are NOT welfare. Do you know what payroll taxes are? Do you have any idea how much revenue payroll taxes represent? No need to go any further. You have zero grasp of how our system works. All you know is the angry rhetoric of ignorance. You will remain angry and stupid. Probably explains why you would vote for Trump and his tax plan that will only serve to further increase our federal debt. BTW, this is NOT the past. The world is a dynamic place. Payroll taxes represent about $1T of the total $3.5T collected by the Fed annually junior. Entitlement is a name dreamed up by Democrats to grow government and you bought it. In another lifetime, Payroll taxes are what used to be walled off to fund social security insurance, etc., ...and now fund the broader government since there is no discipline in the budgeting and spending process. If we want to change how they are disbursed, all that needs to happen is Congress needs to pass the law and the President needs to sign it.... For example, if we want to change the retirement age, presto, Congress changes it and the President ratifies it....and less "entitlement" is disbursed...meaning, hhhm, it wasn;t really "entitled" was it....like is happening in 2017 as the retirement age rises to 67 for those born after 1960...and they get less....if we want to means test everything, presto...we means test it....and less "entitlement is disbursed....meaning, well, it really wasn't entitled or mandatory was it? Entitlement means only what Congress and the White House want it to mean.... There is only one thing Mandatory in the entire Federal budget junior; and that is the $270B annually paid in interest on the debt...which will balloon as soon as we see any real improvement in the economy and interest rates inevitably rise. So no non interest expenditure is mandatory and nothing is entitled. Ichy, you really are an amazing pain in the ass to have a discussion with...when trapped, all you have is "liar" and apparently you don't know what that word really means...I get it that real world problems are hard to deal with...maybe you should just take your pajama's off and come out of your safe space and do what adults do... which is deal with real world problems rather than try to **** someone else and take what they work for so you don't have to make real world decisions and live within your means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japantiger 4,051 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 2 hours ago, NC1406 said: Interesting. Disagree with getting rid of the Marine Corps. The Marines get more done with less resources than any other military branch. Not bad for a division of the Navy. Maybe teach the other branches to achieve what the Marines do with the same resources. Laugh my ass off when my kids come around and talk about their recent "assignments" and then compare what equipment they had to carry out the said missions. Will just say the Army is much better equipped even when tackling missions that don't require the latest and greatest. Of course I selfishly agree with all those points Semper Fi....and I see what my middle son has access to today in the formative years of his training and you are right, the gear is pretty amazing compared to what is decaying in my attic... But I think the mission the Corp used to fill is in need less and less and the're just more mission overlap with Army these days...for crying out loud, they even run a dive school now...why does the Army need a dive school? ... you could still have Marine shock-troop units; just like you have Airborne, Rangers, etc., because I would not propose a 100% manpower reduction; but I don't think we really need the duplicate command structures, etc., that goes with a separate branch....in the interest of fiscal responsibility... Nothing lives forever.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NC1406 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 3 minutes ago, japantiger said: Of course I selfishly agree with all those points Semper Fi....and I see what my middle son has access to today in the formative years of his training and you are right, the gear is pretty amazing compared to what is decaying in my attic... But I think the mission the Corp used to fill is in need less and less and the're just more mission overlap with Army these days...for crying out loud, they even run a dive school now...why does the Army need a dive school? ... you could still have Marine shock-troop units; just like you have Airborne, Rangers, etc., because I would not propose a 100% manpower reduction; but I don't think we really need the duplicate command structures, etc., that goes with a separate branch....in the interest of fiscal responsibility... Nothing lives forever.... Can't believe some of the "schools" that my sons have access to. They have learned some crazy stuff. Last time the Army kid came in with a buddy they wanted to show me how they could "steal" my truck. I convinced them they needed another scotch in front of the outdoor fire instead of destroying my 250K mile truck Win/Win. My son that is a Marine is about to head back to an Army base for 6 months for a little more artillery training instead of teaching and expanding his JTAC and Forward observer skills. It's a waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japantiger 4,051 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Interesting. .. what MOS is car- jacking? I think sharing schools make sense...I went to Benning and Sill back in the day...just not sure why the Army felt the need to spend $$ building a dive school. Thanks to your boys for the work they do..God bless them....how do you handle Army/Navy games with a mixed family like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,463 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 8 hours ago, japantiger said: Payroll taxes represent about $1T of the total $3.5T collected by the Fed annually junior. Entitlement is a name dreamed up by Democrats to grow government and you bought it. In another lifetime, Payroll taxes are what used to be walled off to fund social security insurance, etc., ...and now fund the broader government since there is no discipline in the budgeting and spending process. If we want to change how they are disbursed, all that needs to happen is Congress needs to pass the law and the President needs to sign it.... For example, if we want to change the retirement age, presto, Congress changes it and the President ratifies it....and less "entitlement" is disbursed...meaning, hhhm, it wasn;t really "entitled" was it....like is happening in 2017 as the retirement age rises to 67 for those born after 1960...and they get less....if we want to means test everything, presto...we means test it....and less "entitlement is disbursed....meaning, well, it really wasn't entitled or mandatory was it? Entitlement means only what Congress and the White House want it to mean.... There is only one thing Mandatory in the entire Federal budget junior; and that is the $270B annually paid in interest on the debt...which will balloon as soon as we see any real improvement in the economy and interest rates inevitably rise. So no non interest expenditure is mandatory and nothing is entitled. Ichy, you really are an amazing pain in the ass to have a discussion with...when trapped, all you have is "liar" and apparently you don't know what that word really means...I get it that real world problems are hard to deal with...maybe you should just take your pajama's off and come out of your safe space and do what adults do... which is deal with real world problems rather than try to **** someone else and take what they work for so you don't have to make real world decisions and live within your means. Pure BS. Payroll taxes are collected based on the associated programs. Again, why does the federal government owe the SS trust fund 2.8 trillion? Working people have paid in. Now, you want to rob them so that we can give out corporate welfare (more than public welfare) and, give more preferential tax treatment to the super wealthy? Beyond corrupt. You are a liar. You can not make an argument without distorting the truth. It is an established pattern. Established by you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
channonc 466 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 @japantiger Clearly you don't understand federal law around budgets. Yes, we do have mandatory spending-- this is spending done automatically by statute and is outside of the appropriations process. In lay terms, basically this spending happens as soon as the money hits the bank and is not subject to the yearly budget and appropriations process. Mandatory spending includes: Social Security (largest portion by far), Medicare, Medicaid, Veterans retirement and benefits, unemployment, etc. Discretionary spending is everything else which is subject to annual appropriations. When you look at discretionary spending, it looks like this: When you compare them both: The focus for Congress has been that Non-Defense Discretionary bucket. I can tell you from experience working very closely with many of the programs in that bucket. We have sliced as much as practicable right now from that bucket. Meanwhile, the rest continues to grow or stay constant. Without a combination of tax increases and entitlement reform of some sort, the budget will continue to grow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japantiger 4,051 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 4 hours ago, icanthearyou said: Pure BS. Payroll taxes are collected based on the associated programs. Again, why does the federal government owe the SS trust fund 2.8 trillion? Working people have paid in. Now, you want to rob them so that we can give out corporate welfare (more than public welfare) and, give more preferential tax treatment to the super wealthy? Beyond corrupt. You are a liar. You can not make an argument without distorting the truth. It is an established pattern. Established by you. Ichy, you're still in denial dude...people pay into the trust fund, yes...how the "entitlement" $$ are ultimately disbursed is up to the whims of Congress and the President....if they want to cut 10% out of everyones "entitlement" they can do it...if they want to means test everyone, they can do it...if they want to change retirement dates, they can do it (and have done it many times and it changes again this year) and if they want to increase what is paid out; they can do it to the point that the fund is insolvent (which they have also done). You really need to get a grip on that liar montra dude...you sound like Al Gore's lockbox monologue...there's no lockbox...payroll taxes are no different than income taxes or business taxes, etc. They go into the general fund now and go out however Congress and the President choose for them to go out....if we wanted to cut spending, we can. And witless bystanders like you just keep saying "we can't; we can't". My god, if you have job you must be a nightmare to work with...you're the little engine that can't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,463 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 1 hour ago, japantiger said: Ichy, you're still in denial dude...people pay into the trust fund, yes...how the "entitlement" $$ are ultimately disbursed is up to the whims of Congress and the President....if they want to cut 10% out of everyones "entitlement" they can do it...if they want to means test everyone, they can do it...if they want to change retirement dates, they can do it (and have done it many times and it changes again this year) and if they want to increase what is paid out; they can do it to the point that the fund is insolvent (which they have also done). You really need to get a grip on that liar montra dude...you sound like Al Gore's lockbox monologue...there's no lockbox...payroll taxes are no different than income taxes or business taxes, etc. They go into the general fund now and go out however Congress and the President choose for them to go out....if we wanted to cut spending, we can. And witless bystanders like you just keep saying "we can't; we can't". My god, if you have job you must be a nightmare to work with...you're the little engine that can't... You are lying again. I never said "we can't". Apparently, you can not read. Breaking the promise of S.S. is not the answer. Voting for people who will cut entitlements while giving tax breaks to the wealthy and, welfare to corporations is utterly stupid, not to mention corrupt. If you do not like to be called a liar, stop lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japantiger 4,051 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 5 minutes ago, icanthearyou said: You are lying again. I never said "we can't". Apparently, you can not read. Breaking the promise of S.S. is not the answer. Voting for people who will cut entitlements while giving tax breaks to the wealthy and, welfare to corporations is utterly stupid, not to mention corrupt. Oh, poor Pajama boy....well, if you didn't say can't you're just saying won't...not sure which one is worse....apparently you still don't know how the program works do you?...for the upcoming year congress and the president have already enacted 7 major Soc Security changes that reduce entitlement payments to one group (you know, those folks that payed into the system) and pays welfare to another....people pay in all the time and get nothing out of Soc Security...and others reap disproportionate benefits...welfare....always been that way and always will.. Entitlements only exists in the mind of you ass clowns that won't face fiscal reality...stop trying to rob my children's future you undisciplined tool. Can't and won't are the same thing...Bad choices and a lack of accountability are why we have the issue...not lack of $$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
channonc 466 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 1 hour ago, japantiger said: Oh, poor Pajama boy....well, if you didn't say can't you're just saying won't...not sure which one is worse....apparently you still don't know how the program works do you?...for the upcoming year congress and the president have already enacted 7 major Soc Security changes that reduce entitlement payments to one group (you know, those folks that payed into the system) and pays welfare to another....people pay in all the time and get nothing out of Soc Security...and others reap disproportionate benefits...welfare....always been that way and always will.. Entitlements only exists in the mind of you ass clowns that won't face fiscal reality...stop trying to rob my children's future you undisciplined tool. Can't and won't are the same thing...Bad choices and a lack of accountability are why we have the issue...not lack of $$. Please link to your assertions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,463 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 1 hour ago, japantiger said: Oh, poor Pajama boy....well, if you didn't say can't you're just saying won't...not sure which one is worse....apparently you still don't know how the program works do you?...for the upcoming year congress and the president have already enacted 7 major Soc Security changes that reduce entitlement payments to one group (you know, those folks that payed into the system) and pays welfare to another....people pay in all the time and get nothing out of Soc Security...and others reap disproportionate benefits...welfare....always been that way and always will.. Entitlements only exists in the mind of you ass clowns that won't face fiscal reality...stop trying to rob my children's future you undisciplined tool. Can't and won't are the same thing...Bad choices and a lack of accountability are why we have the issue...not lack of $$. Angry pathetic nonsense, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NC1406 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 21 hours ago, japantiger said: Interesting. .. what MOS is car- jacking? I think sharing schools make sense...I went to Benning and Sill back in the day...just not sure why the Army felt the need to spend $$ building a dive school. Thanks to your boys for the work they do..God bless them....how do you handle Army/Navy games with a mixed family like that? Special forces teach them to apprehend vehicles if needed. I pull for Navy but respect all the men on the field and in the stands. My marine is headed back to sill again. Last time he was the first marine to finish first in class at the army school ?. Thanks to you and yours as well. Edit:. I think my son went to that dive school. He went to one just not sure it was the Army school. paid dividends on his recent honeymoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japantiger 4,051 Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 On 11/7/2016 at 2:00 PM, channonc said: Please link to your assertions. For 2017...this same thing has been happening for decades...my favorite quote... "Social Security benefits are often thought of as an entitlement program for seniors, but the fact of the matter is that Americans need to work throughout their life to guarantee they qualify for at least some Social Security income later in life." Please, tell me you guys didn't seriously think Social Security was some sort of inviolate program handed down by the entitlement gods? What is happening is current recipients continue to benefit more; while future generations see the amount they must pay in and how long they will have to work to get anything is being extended; and if you retire like current recipients you will generally receive payments of 30% less.... http://www.fool.com/retirement/2016/10/31/7-changes-to-social-security-in-2017.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japantiger 4,051 Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 21 hours ago, NC1406 said: Special forces teach them to apprehend vehicles if needed. I pull for Navy but respect all the men on the field and in the stands. My marine is headed back to sill again. Last time he was the first marine to finish first in class at the army school ?. Thanks to you and yours as well. Edit:. I think my son went to that dive school. He went to one just not sure it was the Army school. paid dividends on his recent honeymoon. Interesting...having hijacked vehicles, I can say for sure they never invested any time in actually teaching us what to do....congrats on his performance at Sill...we might have gone to the same school 40 years apart...pretty sure the technology would have seen a substantial upgrade since I learned to spot there...I'm not entirely sure what part of the Army's mission requires dive training...back in the day we all went to the Navy school... Let them know how special they are ... I surely appreciate the sacrifices they make. I never worried about my own circumstances back in the day...now, I'm not sure I will ever stop worrying about what my son is doing. He's Army...like most of his ancestors...I was the only Marine and thus the black sheep... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japantiger 4,051 Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 On 11/7/2016 at 2:25 PM, icanthearyou said: Angry pathetic nonsense, nothing more. So, you concede the point...thanks. Nothing is mandatory...only a lack of leadership and accountability creates the current lack of fiscal discipline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,463 Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 15 minutes ago, japantiger said: So, you concede the point...thanks. Nothing is mandatory...only a lack of leadership and accountability creates the current lack of fiscal discipline. Not at all. Again, there is no political will to reign in government spending. There have to be more fundamental changes. Then only political will that exists is that to deny entitlements in favor of special interests. Congress is bought and paid for. You have to change that first. Again, your anger is compelling. However, it is also meaningless. Until you stop living in the world of political rhetoric and, thoughtfully examine political reality, you comments and suggestions are meaningless. The only thing you have accomplished is furthering your reputation as childish, arrogant, angry, impulsive, ignorant and less than honest. But please, continue. Watching you make a fool of yourself is entertaining. Suggestion: Try employing facts and data. That will go further than your angry rants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japantiger 4,051 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 5 hours ago, icanthearyou said: Not at all. Again, there is no political will to reign in government spending. There have to be more fundamental changes. Then only political will that exists is that to deny entitlements in favor of special interests. Congress is bought and paid for. You have to change that first. Again, your anger is compelling. However, it is also meaningless. Until you stop living in the world of political rhetoric and, thoughtfully examine political reality, you comments and suggestions are meaningless. The only thing you have accomplished is furthering your reputation as childish, arrogant, angry, impulsive, ignorant and less than honest. But please, continue. Watching you make a fool of yourself is entertaining. Suggestion: Try employing facts and data. That will go further than your angry rants. So you agree with me it is purely a matter of political will; leadership and accountability...and nothing to do with the law .... I knew you'd come around. And Ichy, nice try on the ignorant, blah, blah, blah. You started this ridiculous back and forth claiming that "entitlements" were inviolate...that Soc Security taxes were in AlGore's lock box and couldn't be withheld and they weren't welfare...and now you admit it can be done...and that they are... Now, I personally think Congress has always been corrupt...at least maybe since the 1st or 2nd Congress. So this is nothing new. And we haven't always had unbridled spending that would embarrass drunken sailors; that's more an artifact of the last 15 years. All it takes to get this under control are two or three committed people...a President, a Speaker of the House, and President of the Senate...if those three people want to get this under control; it will happen. Reagan and Oneil made a difference; Clinton and Gingrich made a difference and balanced the budget....for crying out loud, Carter, Sadat and Began made a difference in spite of every interest being lined up against them and trying to kill them....this is all about leadership and action...you know, real grown up hard work adult stuff...not whiny s*** from a bunch of ass clowns that have never had a real job and whose backers don't actually won't them to get anything done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icanthearyou 4,463 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 2 hours ago, japantiger said: So you agree with me it is purely a matter of political will; leadership and accountability...and nothing to do with the law .... I knew you'd come around. And Ichy, nice try on the ignorant, blah, blah, blah. You started this ridiculous back and forth claiming that "entitlements" were inviolate...that Soc Security taxes were in AlGore's lock box and couldn't be withheld and they weren't welfare...and now you admit it can be done...and that they are... Now, I personally think Congress has always been corrupt...at least maybe since the 1st or 2nd Congress. So this is nothing new. And we haven't always had unbridled spending that would embarrass drunken sailors; that's more an artifact of the last 15 years. All it takes to get this under control are two or three committed people...a President, a Speaker of the House, and President of the Senate...if those three people want to get this under control; it will happen. Reagan and Oneil made a difference; Clinton and Gingrich made a difference and balanced the budget....for crying out loud, Carter, Sadat and Began made a difference in spite of every interest being lined up against them and trying to kill them....this is all about leadership and action...you know, real grown up hard work adult stuff...not whiny s*** from a bunch of ass clowns that have never had a real job and whose backers don't actually won't them to get anything done. Reagan and Oneill did not cut spending. Carter, Sadat, Began? They have nothing to do with any of this. You should come back to reality. Employment taxes are collected for a specific purpose. They are accounted for outside of income taxes. There may not be a lock box (should there be?) but, there is a trust fund. IMO, deferring, redirecting, borrowing w/o repaying, cutting is tantamount to theft. It is worse when the cuts are made under the guise of spending reductions while simultaneously cutting taxes for the wealthiest and increasing corporate welfare. It is stealing from the poor in order to give to the rich. Nice summation. You throw all credibility away with anger and meaningless rhetoric. To whom are you actually referring? Everyone is an "ass clown" but yourself? You really believe that you and like-minded individuals are smarter, better, harder working than everyone else? Again, come back to reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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