Pope meets for 1 1/2 hours with Biden - Encourages Biden to continue receiving Communion

[AUGunsmith 666]

24 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Capitalism without rules becomes an oligarchy.

It's only through the state that oligarchy can exist. 

[AU9377 5,137]

46 minutes ago, AUGunsmith said:

It's only through the state that oligarchy can exist. 

There was a time when corporate greed was moderated by a sense of corporate responsibility.  That corporate responsibility is an afterthought at best today and more often than not isn't part of the conversation.  When people work hard and still feel that the system is rigged against them, they develop a resentment toward the structure that they feel keeps them from being upwardly mobile.  It takes time for pain to turn to action, but it will happen and when it does, those that have too little will take from those that have too much.   That happens without regard to what economic structure people operate in.  In a representative democracy, the vehicle for change is by governmental action.  Sometimes that means regulation and sometimes deregulation, sometimes incentives and sometimes disincentives.  But for that ability, people are at the mercy of wealth and corporate actors.  That starts looking a lot like an aristocratic class and fleeing that was at the heart of why this country was formed.

[homersapien 11,513]

4 hours ago, AUGunsmith said:

It's only through the state that oligarchy can exist. 

Yeah, a state that is too ineffective and/or corrupt to create and enforce rules that enable a fair market.  Such a state effectively becomes a tool of the oligarchy.

Edited November 12, 2021 by homersapien

[AUGunsmith 666]

28 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Yeah, a state that is too ineffective and/or corrupt to create and enforce rules that enable a fair market.  Such a state effectively becomes a tool of the oligarchy.

The economic meddling if a nation doesn't matter. An oligarchy can form regardless as it has literally nothing to do with how free it controlled a market is or even if it's a non market economy. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by AUGunsmith

[AUGunsmith 666]

4 hours ago, AU9377 said:

There was a time when corporate greed was moderated by a sense of corporate responsibility.  That corporate responsibility is an afterthought at best today and more often than not isn't part of the conversation.  When people work hard and still feel that the system is rigged against them, they develop a resentment toward the structure that they feel keeps them from being upwardly mobile.  It takes time for pain to turn to action, but it will happen and when it does, those that have too little will take from those that have too much.   That happens without regard to what economic structure people operate in.  In a representative democracy, the vehicle for change is by governmental action.  Sometimes that means regulation and sometimes deregulation, sometimes incentives and sometimes disincentives.  But for that ability, people are at the mercy of wealth and corporate actors.  That starts looking a lot like an aristocratic class and fleeing that was at the heart of why this country was formed.

This may be the situation in places early in industrialization, but post industrial society doesn't follow the same problems. The barrier to entry in damn near any market is so low any with the desire and ability to succeed. 

The issues you're talking if are more systemic problems built within the state apparatus which leak into socioeconomics opposed to the inverse. 

[AU9377 5,137]

1 hour ago, AUGunsmith said:

This may be the situation in places early in industrialization, but post industrial society doesn't follow the same problems. The barrier to entry in damn near any market is so low any with the desire and ability to succeed. 

The issues you're talking if are more systemic problems built within the state apparatus which leak into socioeconomics opposed to the inverse. 

I doubt that someone with no connections or resources feels that the barriers are that low.  I'm not saying that barriers won't or shouldn't exist to some degree for the economy to function, but the gap between the haves and have nots is edging dangerously close to being at an all time high.  More people are now sliding from the upper middle toward barely being considered middle class than at any time since WWII.  Health care is an absolute mess and Americans are paying much more for the same services delivered in other similarly situated countries while receiving comparable care.  The debt carried by most Americans is also higher than ever before, while savings is at an all time low.

We can find solutions to all of these things, but we can't while allowing corporate profits to soar while employee wages remain stagnate.  Mcdonald's may be paying more, but GE and General Motors are hesitant.  One thing that could change everything is for many of the corporations to begin moving production from China back to the U.S.  The reason that won't happen is that it would cut into profits.  At some point there has to be a middle point emerge where profitability is reasonable and this country is also more than a stream of money going to feed from.

[homersapien 11,513]

On 11/12/2021 at 3:00 PM, AUGunsmith said:

The economic meddling if a nation doesn't matter. An oligarchy can form regardless as it has literally nothing to do with how free it controlled a market is or even if it's a non market economy. 

I don't understand your point. What do you mean by "economic meddling"?

My point is simple:  a successful market-based capitalistic economy depends on the effective rule of law to exist.

[AUGunsmith 666]

2 hours ago, homersapien said:

I don't understand your point. What do you mean by "economic meddling"?

My point is simple:  a successful market-based capitalistic economy depends on the effective rule of law to exist.

Only to the extent of an ability to stop aggression which is the only valid action a state can take. 

 

But the point is that regardless of the style of economic interference, be it regulated capitalism, cronyism, communist or socialist market principals, it doesn't matter as the makeup of an economy doesn't effect whether an oligarchy forms as they all have the ability to lead to the same end.

Oligarchy isn't based on economic. Just like democracy or monarchy or a y other form of government exists independent of it's enomonic model. 

[aubearcat 2,138]

https://www.ncregister.com/cna/bishop-stowe-not-in-favor-of-eucharistic-document-but-predicts-it-will-pass

[aubearcat 2,138]