Saddam Hussein possibly captured in raid

[War Eagle 96 10]

Bush administration didn't use the children as their reason for attacking instead of basing it on known bogus intel and flat out lies. Did they think that the world really wouldn't want to rally around the murder of children? Why lie about the other stuff and pay little attention to this when you're pitching a war in front of the UN?

Your total ingnorance of the facts is downright scary. Go back to Bush's addresses to the nation and the UN during the buildup to the war.

It has always been: (1) freeing the citizens of Iraq from a brutal dictator (i.e. raperooms and mass killings) & (2)15+ resolutions by the UN threatening to use force if he didn't open up FULLY to inspections & (3)the fear that his WMD may end up in the hands of terrorists.

The first two are undeniable truths and he talked about them OVER AND OVER AND OVER...If you deny that...you're not worth talking to. The third is the scariest BEACAUSE the weapons have not been found. That leaves open the possiblity that some Al Queda-type thug-group has already gotten them. And in my opinion it is better to be over there in the middle of the middle-east dismanteling SH'S dictactorship showing the world WE'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE. I just don't understand how you can live with yourself saying some of the goofy things you do.

[TrueTiger 0]

YEAHHHHH

WARR EAGLE

[MDM4AU 336]

Bush administration didn't use the children as their reason for attacking instead of basing it on known bogus intel and flat out lies. Did they think that the world really wouldn't want to rally around the murder of children? Why lie about the other stuff and pay little attention to this when you're pitching a war in front of the UN?

Your total ingnorance of the facts is downright scary. Go back to Bush's addresses to the nation and the UN during the buildup to the war.

It has always been: (1) freeing the citizens of Iraq from a brutal dictator (i.e. raperooms and mass killings) & (2)15+ resolutions by the UN threatening to use force if he didn't open up FULLY to inspections & (3)the fear that his WMD may end up in the hands of terrorists.

The first two are undeniable truths and he talked about them OVER AND OVER AND OVER...If you deny that...you're not worth talking to. The third is the scariest BEACAUSE the weapons have not been found. That leaves open the possiblity that some Al Queda-type thug-group has already gotten them. And in my opinion it is better to be over there in the middle of the middle-east dismanteling SH'S dictactorship showing the world WE'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE. I just don't understand how you can live with yourself saying some of the goofy things you do.

Well, if you say it enough you believe it and hopefully for them others will too and they can get Bush out of office. It has all to do with hating Bush and wanting Dean or Gore, or Hillary or some other lib in office. You notice how they try to debunk any good news for the Bush administration no matter how clear cut it is. To steal a line from my favorite lib (and I mean that) They think inside their (Liberal/ Dem) box.

[tiger88 934]

As an aside...tiger88, why are you baiting on this? Enjoy the moment and lighten up on complex, OK???

Call it a complex or whatever you want tigeral, I really couldn't care less, OK????

I wasn't even referring to you although i don't doubt that somewhere inside you there is some serious disappointment anytime a repub. pres. scores a big pr victory. As much dislike/hatred as you spew in GWB's direction on this site it just doesn't seem possible that you would be totally happy about it. I'm sure you will deny it because you would just look too bad if you admitted to it. Go ahead and say you are totally pleased with saddams capture and there is no part of you that wishes he had evaded capture to make GWB's admin. look bad. I believe you :roll: .

As an aside....... tigeral why are you getting on to someone for baiting :roll: :roll: . I'll bait when I want when I want just like you do, oh hypocritic one. Trust me I am enjoying this moment from all aspects.

[AUloggerhead 2,255]

TigerAl,

I'll give you credit for being consistent -- you're whole anti-Bush argument has been about the Iraqi WMD issue.

Focusing on just that one issue, though is equivalent to being unable to see the forest for the trees. The fact remains is that the search for WMD hasn't been completed yet. Heck, even all the conventional weapons haven't even been found yet. The latest estimate is that there are upwards of 600,000 TONS of conventional weapons still to be disposed of: Link

The military has been disposing of conventional weapons since May of this year. Demolition of that amount even on a daily basis will take years.

Saddam spent all of Iraq's oil wealth on himself and weapons procurement, conventional & non-conventional. He left the Iraqi people in 3rd world poverty, not to mention enslaved.

Edit: Newer Link

Whoops! I spoke too soon. The estimates of conventional arms are now at 1,000,000 TONS give or take 100,000.

[Tiger Al 0]

From the 2003 State of the Union Address:

Twelve years ago, Saddam Hussein faced the prospect of being the last casualty in a war he had started and lost. To spare himself, he agreed to disarm of all weapons of mass destruction. For the next 12 years, he systematically violated that agreement. He pursued chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons, even while inspectors were in his country. Nothing to date has restrained him from his pursuit of these weapons -- not economic sanctions, not isolation from the civilized world, not even cruise missile strikes on his military facilities.

Almost three months ago, the United Nations Security Council gave Saddam Hussein his final chance to disarm. He has shown instead utter contempt for the United Nations, and for the opinion of the world. The 108 U.N. inspectors were sent to conduct -- were not sent to conduct a scavenger hunt for hidden materials across a country the size of California. The job of the inspectors is to verify that Iraq's regime is disarming. It is up to Iraq to show exactly where it is hiding its banned weapons, lay those weapons out for the world to see, and destroy them as directed. Nothing like this has happened.

The United Nations concluded in 1999 that Saddam Hussein had biological weapons sufficient to produce over 25,000 liters of anthrax -- enough doses to kill several million people. He hasn't accounted for that material. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed it.

The United Nations concluded that Saddam Hussein had materials sufficient to produce more than 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin -- enough to subject millions of people to death by respiratory failure. He hadn't accounted for that material. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed it.

Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent. In such quantities, these chemical agents could also kill untold thousands. He's not accounted for these materials. He has given no evidence that he has destroyed them.

U.S. intelligence indicates that Saddam Hussein had upwards of 30,000 munitions capable of delivering chemical agents. Inspectors recently turned up 16 of them -- despite Iraq's recent declaration denying their existence. Saddam Hussein has not accounted for the remaining 29,984 of these prohibited munitions. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed them.

From three Iraqi defectors we know that Iraq, in the late 1990s, had several mobile biological weapons labs. These are designed to produce germ warfare agents, and can be moved from place to a place to evade inspectors. Saddam Hussein has not disclosed these facilities. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed them.

The International Atomic Energy Agency confirmed in the 1990s that Saddam Hussein had an advanced nuclear weapons development program, had a design for a nuclear weapon and was working on five different methods of enriching uranium for a bomb. The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production. Saddam Hussein has not credibly explained these activities. He clearly has much to hide.

The dictator of Iraq is not disarming. To the contrary; he is deceiving. From intelligence sources we know, for instance, that thousands of Iraqi security personnel are at work hiding documents and materials from the U.N. inspectors, sanitizing inspection sites and monitoring the inspectors themselves. Iraqi officials accompany the inspectors in order to intimidate witnesses.

Iraq is blocking U-2 surveillance flights requested by the United Nations. Iraqi intelligence officers are posing as the scientists inspectors are supposed to interview. Real scientists have been coached by Iraqi officials on what to say. Intelligence sources indicate that Saddam Hussein has ordered that scientists who cooperate with U.N. inspectors in disarming Iraq will be killed, along with their families.

Year after year, Saddam Hussein has gone to elaborate lengths, spent enormous sums, taken great risks to build and keep weapons of mass destruction. But why? The only possible explanation, the only possible use he could have for those weapons, is to dominate, intimidate, or attack.

With nuclear arms or a full arsenal of chemical and biological weapons, Saddam Hussein could resume his ambitions of conquest in the Middle East and create deadly havoc in that region. And this Congress and the America people must recognize another threat. Evidence from intelligence sources, secret communications, and statements by people now in custody reveal that Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of al Qaeda. Secretly, and without fingerprints, he could provide one of his hidden weapons to terrorists, or help them develop their own.

Before September the 11th, many in the world believed that Saddam Hussein could be contained. But chemical agents, lethal viruses and shadowy terrorist networks are not easily contained. Imagine those 19 hijackers with other weapons and other plans -- this time armed by Saddam Hussein. It would take one vial, one canister, one crate slipped into this country to bring a day of horror like none we have ever known. We will do everything in our power to make sure that that day never comes. (Applause.)

Some have said we must not act until the threat is imminent. Since when have terrorists and tyrants announced their intentions, politely putting us on notice before they strike? If this threat is permitted to fully and suddenly emerge, all actions, all words, and all recriminations would come too late. Trusting in the sanity and restraint of Saddam Hussein is not a strategy, and it is not an option. (Applause.)

The dictator who is assembling the world's most dangerous weapons has already used them on whole villages -- leaving thousands of his own citizens dead, blind, or disfigured. Iraqi refugees tell us how forced confessions are obtained -- by torturing children while their parents are made to watch. International human rights groups have catalogued other methods used in the torture chambers of Iraq: electric shock, burning with hot irons, dripping acid on the skin, mutilation with electric drills, cutting out tongues, and rape. If this is not evil, then evil has no meaning. (Applause.)

And tonight I have a message for the brave and oppressed people of Iraq: Your enemy is not surrounding your country -- your enemy is ruling your country. (Applause.) And the day he and his regime are removed from power will be the day of your liberation. (Applause.)

The world has waited 12 years for Iraq to disarm. America will not accept a serious and mounting threat to our country, and our friends and our allies. The United States will ask the U.N. Security Council to convene on February the 5th to consider the facts of Iraq's ongoing defiance of the world. Secretary of State Powell will present information and intelligence about Iraqi's legal -- Iraq's illegal weapons programs, its attempt to hide those weapons from inspectors, and its links to terrorist groups.

We will consult. But let there be no misunderstanding: If Saddam Hussein does not fully disarm, for the safety of our people and for the peace of the world, we will lead a coalition to disarm him.

One paragraph out of eighteen concerning Iraq that talked about human rights violations. If this was a major concern then why not devote as much or more attention to it in the only scheduled address to the entire country for the year???

This is from Colin Powell's address to the UN on 2/5/2003:

And, friends, this has been a long and a detailed presentation and I thank you for your patience, but there is one more subject that I would like to touch on briefly, and it should be a subject of deep and continuing concern to this Council: Saddam Hussein's violations of human rights.

Underlying all that I have said, underlying all the facts and the patterns of behavior that I have identified, is Saddam Hussein's contempt for the will of this Council, his contempt for the truth, and, most damning of all, his utter contempt for human life. Saddam Hussein's use of mustard and nerve gas against the Kurds in 1988 was one of the 20th century's most horrible atrocities. Five thousand men, women and children died. His campaign against the Kurds from 1987 to '89 included mass summary executions, disappearances, arbitrary jailing and ethnic cleansing, and the destruction of some 2,000 villages.

He has also conducted ethnic cleansing against the Shia Iraqis and the Marsh Arabs whose culture has flourished for more than a millennium. Saddam Hussein's police state ruthlessly eliminates anyone who dares to dissent. Iraq has more forced disappearance cases than any other country -- tens of thousands of people reported missing in the past decade.

Nothing points more clearly to Saddam Hussein's dangerous intentions and the threat he poses to all of us than his calculated cruelty to his own citizens and to his neighbors. Clearly, Saddam Hussein and his regime will stop at nothing until something stops him.

Four (4) paragraphs out of approximately two hundred and twenty (220) devoted to human rights violations. The rest (216 paragraphs) of the address is about...WMD's, al Quaeda links, uranium.

It should be obvious where the Bush administration placed its' highest priority in making its' case. Unfortunately, after three months of unrestricted access in Iraq, UNMOVIC inspectors repeatedly found no evidence supporting the adminstrations claims of WMD's. Despite being directed to all of the areas "known" to have WMD's the inspectors found no evidence supporting the administrations claims. The inspectors were then pulled out, despite having free and unlimited access throughout the country, and the war was launched.

AULoggerhead, first off, welcome back. What took you so long???

Unless I've been terribly derelict in my reading, I didn't know that Iraq was ever, at any time, supposed to disarm conventional weapons, with the exception of long-range offensive weapons like the Scud, Exocet and al Hussein missiles. My understanding is that Iraq was not required to be disarmed of defensive weapons. According to many UN inspectors, Iraq's disarmament of those prohibited conventional weapons was the area of disarmament where the most success was found.

[tiger88 934]

Funny how tigeral is so happy about saddams capture yet here he is on the saddam captured thread with his usual anti gwb blah blah blah :roll: :roll: :roll: .

I guess he hasn't figured out he is wasting his breath and boring everyone to tears . Isn't there a libbie board where someone would appreciate your views ta??????? Face it, this board is conservative through and through with only a few bed wetters to be had. I am thankful everyday that GWB was our pres. before during and after 9/11. Put a gutless libbie in there and we're all up poop creek with no paddle. You can come back now with some of your useless drivel about no 9/11 -saddam connection or whatever other crud you want to, OK?????

[CShine 0]

It's pretty funny to see that on hearing this great news the first thought of so many people was how it would affect their political enemies here at home. Y'all are some great self-parodies and you don't even know it.

[MDM4AU 336]

It's pretty funny to see that on hearing this great news the first thought of so many people was how it would affect their political enemies here at home. Y'all are some great self-parodies and you don't even know it.

Don't be so conceited. Yours and your lib friends feelings were no better than third! Get over yourself!

[TitanTiger 20,519]

From Bush's address to the UN, September 12, 2002. These are the first few paragraphs of his reasons for going after Iraq:

"...He has proven instead only his contempt for the United Nations, and for all his pledges.  By breaking every pledge -- by his deceptions, and by his cruelties -- Saddam Hussein has made the case against himself. 

In 1991, Security Council Resolution 688 demanded that the Iraqi regime cease at once the repression of its own people, including the systematic repression of minorities -- which the Council said, threatened international peace and security in the region.  This demand goes ignored. 

Last year, the U.N. Commission on Human Rights found that Iraq continues to commit extremely grave violations of human rights, and that the regime's repression is all pervasive.  Tens of thousands of political opponents and ordinary citizens have been subjected to arbitrary arrest and imprisonment, summary execution, and torture by beating and burning, electric shock, starvation, mutilation, and rape. Wives are tortured in front of their husbands, children in the presence of their parents -- and all of these horrors concealed from the world by the apparatus of a totalitarian state. 

In 1991, the U.N. Security Council, through Resolutions 686 and 687, demanded that Iraq return all prisoners from Kuwait and other lands.  Iraq's regime agreed.  It broke its promise.  Last year the Secretary General's high-level coordinator for this issue reported that Kuwait, Saudi, Indian, Syrian, Lebanese, Iranian, Egyptian, Bahraini, and Omani nationals remain unaccounted for -- more than 600 people. One American pilot is among them..." 

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/20...20020912-1.html

[Tiger Al 0]

Funny how tigeral is so happy about saddams capture yet here he is on the saddam captured thread with his usual anti gwb blah blah blah :roll:  :roll:  :roll: .

I guess he hasn't figured out he is wasting his breath and boring everyone to tears . Isn't there a libbie board where someone would appreciate your views ta??????? Face it, this board is conservative through and through with only a few bed wetters to be had. I am thankful everyday that GWB was our pres. before during and after 9/11. Put a gutless libbie in there and we're all up poop creek with no paddle. You can come back now with some of your useless drivel about no 9/11 -saddam connection or whatever other crud you want to, OK?????

And if you had an honest neuron in your thick skull you'd retract this post and move on. Read ranger12's second post and then tell me who started in on who about this.

[CShine 0]

It's pretty funny to see that on hearing this great news the first thought of so many people was how it would affect their political enemies here at home. Y'all are some great self-parodies and you don't even know it.

Don't be so conceited. Yours and your lib friends feelings were no better than third! Get over yourself!

Well, if THAT ain't the pot calling the kettle black!! 99% of the threads are nothing BUT conceit, my friend, your stuff included.

[Donutboy 0]

From CNN

(CNN) -- U.S. forces in Iraq conducted a raid in the Tikrit area early Sunday, and captured a number of wanted Iraqis, possibly including former leader Saddam Hussein U.S officials told CNN's Jamie McIntyre.

The identity of the individual believed to be Saddam is still being confirmed, the officials cautioned.

A coalition news conference in Baghdad, scheduled for 7 a.m. ET, is expected to shed more light on whether the Iraqi leader was captured.

The raid in Saddam's hometown of Tikrit was based on intelligence that Saddam was at a particular location in the area, the officials said.

The former Iraqi leader is number one on the coalition's 55 most wanted list, and his evasion has been a political sore spot for the U.S. administration.

At least a dozen audiotapes believed to have been recorded by Saddam, 66, have been released since he was forced out of power by the coalition forces during the Iraq war. The most recent was broadcast in November.

His sons Uday and Qusay -- also on the coalition's most wanted list -- were killed in July, after U.S. forces stormed their hideout in Mosul.

Great news indeed. Perhaps now that he is out of the way, our troops can be safer and can return home sooner.

[MDM4AU 336]

It's pretty funny to see that on hearing this great news the first thought of so many people was how it would affect their political enemies here at home. Y'all are some great self-parodies and you don't even know it.

Don't be so conceited. Yours and your lib friends feelings were no better than third! Get over yourself!

Well, if THAT ain't the pot calling the kettle black!! 99% of the threads are nothing BUT conceit, my friend, your stuff included.

I do hope you realize I was joking. If not, somebody's hinny hairs are wound a little tight today!

[CShine 0]

It's pretty funny to see that on hearing this great news the first thought of so many people was how it would affect their political enemies here at home. Y'all are some great self-parodies and you don't even know it.

Don't be so conceited. Yours and your lib friends feelings were no better than third! Get over yourself!

Well, if THAT ain't the pot calling the kettle black!! 99% of the threads are nothing BUT conceit, my friend, your stuff included.

I do hope you realize I was joking. If not, somebody's hinny hairs are wound a little tight today!

Yes, I caught the joke, and I also caught that you were only half joking. It's all fine with me. It's been a long time since any message board banter has bothered me.

And while it hasn't been said here yet, I have a feeling that you, me, and just about everyone in America sees this as a great step forward, regardless of anyone's political affiliation.

[Donutboy 0]

Just a quick note. After posting my original response, I read back some of the other posts and I'm ashamed of the way that this great event has denigrated to such partisan bickering. Us "libs" never used the daily deaths in Iraq as a political issue but you're going to bash us over the head with the capture? I was as excited as any of you about the capture. Two of my friends from work have sons over there. I have a son. Don't think that in some way I wanted this war to continue as a political hot potato. I never attempted to use it as one. Not one post of mine was ever a daily death toll in this war. One of the last posts that I made was in regards to us not doing enough to protect our troops. Yes, some of us questioned the war, not because of the validity of getting rid of an evil dictator but because of the original reasons given to sell this war. THAT'S still a valid issue. I'm proud that the men and women who made the ultimate sacrifice in Iraq did so for a good cause. With that, I'll not respond in kind to any of the drivel that I'm certain has been aimed my way.

[Tiger Al 0]

Statement by Governor Dean on the Capture of Saddam Hussein

Dec. 14, 2004, WEST PALM BEACH-- Governor Dean issued the following statement this morning:

"This is a great day for the Iraqi people, the US, and the international community.

"Our troops are to be congratulated on carrying out this mission with the skill and dedication we have come to know of them.

"This development provides an enormous opportunity to set a new course and take the American label off the war. We must do everything possible to bring the UN, NATO, and other members of the international community back into this effort.

"Now that the dictator is captured, we must also accelerate the transition from occupation to full Iraqi sovereignty."

[MDM4AU 336]

It's pretty funny to see that on hearing this great news the first thought of so many people was how it would affect their political enemies here at home. Y'all are some great self-parodies and you don't even know it.

Don't be so conceited. Yours and your lib friends feelings were no better than third! Get over yourself!

Well, if THAT ain't the pot calling the kettle black!! 99% of the threads are nothing BUT conceit, my friend, your stuff included.

I do hope you realize I was joking. If not, somebody's hinny hairs are wound a little tight today!

Yes, I caught the joke, and I also caught that you were only half joking. It's all fine with me. It's been a long time since any message board banter has bothered me.

And while it hasn't been said here yet, I have a feeling that you, me, and just about everyone in America sees this as a great step forward, regardless of anyone's political affiliation.

I agree!

[MDM4AU 336]

Statement by Governor Dean on the Capture of Saddam Hussein

Dec. 14, 2004, WEST PALM BEACH-- Governor Dean issued the following statement this morning:

"This is a great day for the Iraqi people, the US, and the international community.

"Our troops are to be congratulated on carrying out this mission with the skill and dedication we have come to know of them.

"This development provides an enormous opportunity to set a new course and take the American label off the war. We must do everything possible to bring the UN, NATO, and other members of the international community back into this effort.

"Now that the dictator is captured, we must also accelerate the transition from occupation to full Iraqi sovereignty."

Yeah, I saw that from him and Kerry and Lieberman on MSNBC or Fox News. I was flipping back and forth.

[tiger88 934]

Funny how tigeral is so happy about saddams capture yet here he is on the saddam captured thread with his usual anti gwb blah blah blah :roll:  :roll:  :roll: .

I guess he hasn't figured out he is wasting his breath and boring everyone to tears . Isn't there a libbie board where someone would appreciate your views ta??????? Face it, this board is conservative through and through with only a few bed wetters to be had. I am thankful everyday that GWB was our pres. before during and after 9/11. Put a gutless libbie in there and we're all up poop creek with no paddle. You can come back now with some of your useless drivel about no 9/11 -saddam connection or whatever other crud you want to, OK?????

And if you had an honest neuron in your thick skull you'd retract this post and move on. Read ranger12's second post and then tell me who started in on who about this.

So I am a dishonest thick skulled person? I guess if that statement came from someone with an opinion I cared about on this matter, I might give a darn. In this case I don't.

AFA the grade school reminiscent claim of, 'I didn't start it, he did', whichever rationalization floats your boat is fine with me.

[AUloggerhead 2,255]

AULoggerhead, first off, welcome back. What took you so long???

Unless I've been terribly derelict in my reading, I didn't know that Iraq was ever, at any time, supposed to disarm conventional weapons, with the exception of long-range offensive weapons like the Scud, Exocet and al Hussein missiles. My understanding is that Iraq was not required to be disarmed of defensive weapons. According to many UN inspectors, Iraq's disarmament of those prohibited conventional weapons was the area of disarmament where the most success was found.

Thanks Al, I missed you too.

I'm not trying to say that the conventional arms were the reason we invaded. The reason I brought up the links was to show you what the troops over there are having to deal with. Keep in mind the US has already set aside 1.8 million tons of arms/armaments for equipping the Iraqi army for when things get back to "normal."

Just doing some rough calculations: there are about 24 million Iraqis in Iraq today (there would have been much more if Hussein hadn't murdered a few millions of 'em but, I digress -- we'll save that topic for another time.) The estimate of conventional arms to be disposed of is at least 1 million tons. Seeing as how the estimate keeps rising with more uncovered caches being discovered, let's say the number is 1.2 million tons. 1.2 + 1.8 = 3.0 Three million tons of arms/armaments for 24 million people -- that works out to about 125,000 tons of arms/armaments for every single man, woman & child in Iraq!

I know they're a different culture but DANG! Just how much "celebratory gunfire" do they have to plan ahead for? A 125,000 tons per capita ought to about be the limit, I'd say. And to think, Iraq had already fought a 10-year war with Iran in 1980-90, and a 3-month war with the US-led coalition in 1991. Clearly, a pathological need to keep buying arms/armaments was driving Hussein all these years. I don't fault GWB for thinking Hussein had or was trying to obtain WMD. All evidence points to the guy was crazy enough to procure them. The links I referred to on the conventional arms stated that the US hasn't even got around to inspecting all the KNOWN sites and they admit that not all of them are secured. For all we know, WMD may be stored among the conventional munitions. Or they may have been moved. Looting isn't out of the realm of possibilities, either. About the only thing you can say with any certainty is that WMDs have not been found -- yet.

[CarolinaTiger 0]

logger...please don't take away their WMD issue...else they'll have nothing but a jobless recovery to wail & gnash their teeth about.