Effect Of Latinos In Alabama?

[otterinbham 0]

Over the past ten years, I've noticed that the population of Latinos has really increased in Birmingham, drawn here by a booming economy and relatively low cost of living. All my clients in construction wouldn't be able to built a house without them in the labor force, and without their presence we would face a critical labor shortage.

At the same time, I understand there are issues involved in accommodating what is essentially a large immigrant community.

So, I am interested in your thoughts. I know this is a sensitive topic, so I think some ground rules are in order on this thread:

1) No stereotyping or ethnic slurs. I know you guys are above all that, but it's a good rule to lay down anyway. We're looking for a civilized discussion devoid of paranoia or xenophobia.

2) What are your experiences with these workers in your community and your places of business? What are your experiences in their integrating into our communities?

3) We all know that large proportions of them are here illegally. We also know that the government looks the other way knowing that, without their presence, agriculture, construction, and hospitality industries will cease to exist. With that in mind, how do we enjoy the benefits while minimizing the overall impact on society?

My overall impression? A hardworking, honest bunch of people who cause relatively few problems. I also think that, in the Birmingham area, Latinos are beginning to integrate successfully into schools, etc. However, I recognize my impressions may not be yours.

[WinCrimson 61]

I agree. The only thing I worry about illegal immigrants is the thought of terrorists crossing the border. The Mexicans that are working in B'Ham, building the new dorms in Tuscaloosa, working in the sod farms of the Wiregrass, etc, are no harm to the public.

It's true, they are doing some jobs that most people would refuse to do so. Are they here legally? No. But deporting them would be a mistake. People complain about them coming over here and "taking our jobs." How many of those people really want to do the jobs they're doing? I'll say from personal experience, they work harder than the rest of America.

[DKW 86 7,975]

Here in Decatur, they are essentially a new fad. We have a few small areas of town where they congregate and have opened Tiendas, etc. Kind of cool actually.

However, over the last two years or more we have had a rash of Mexicans arrested for wrecks/DUI and 4-5 high profile murders that were Mexicans. Seems the idea of the hot blooded Latino is correct at some level.

Kudos to otter for using the RIGHT term, Latinos. They are not Hispanic.

[JohnDeere 0]

All my clients in construction wouldn't be able to built a house without them in the labor force, and without their presence we would face a critical labor shortage.

..........

3) We all know that large proportions of them are here illegally. We also know that the government looks the other way knowing that, without their presence, agriculture, construction, and hospitality industries will cease to exist. With that in mind, how do we enjoy the benefits while minimizing the overall impact on society?

The construction industry would cease to exist without Mexican labor? That is news to me. There are just as many high school "drop-outs/duds" today as there were ten years ago who WANT to earn a descent living and support there family in a labor intensive trade such as concrete finishing/framing carpentry/landscaping/roofing. The average white/black 18 year old can't spend two-three years learning a trade when he has to compete with 'Latino' labor that will do the same work for four-five dollars less an hour. If you don't believe me, ask any vocational teacher in Alabama. American kids aren't shying away from vocational classes, they are out there trying to find a skill/trade.

And the arugment you alluded to that the 'cheap' labor pushes construction expenses down is another false arguement. The Mexican labor has been slow to 'push' into the construction trades in the NW corner/ East side of the state. Maybe, because there is a higher demand for labor in B'ham/HSV. I am guessing there is enough 'traditional' labor sources in NW/East AL, because the 'skilled' construction tradesman(electricians/plumbers/cabinet makers/marble cutters) are able to maintain lower estimates/rates in there 'home' areas and push out/travel to HSV/B'ham to gain more work at the rates they charge at home.

The fact is your going to pay more per sq ft to build a house in B'ham/HSV then you are to build a house in Florence/Guntersville/Anniston/Albertville. This in part is due to the real-estate market, but as you mentioned the 'Latino' labor is in full-force in B'ham/HSV, so why isn't construction rates falling there if the labor is cheaper? I know for a fact that certain HomeBuilers/Contractors are taking advantage of the cheap labor and taking the profits to the bank.

And DWK, if you think Tiendas are cool, drive through downtown Albertville on a Sunday afternoon. It might change your mind.

[otterinbham 0]

All my clients in construction wouldn't be able to built a house without them in the labor force, and without their presence we would face a critical labor shortage.

..........

3) We all know that large proportions of them are here illegally. We also know that the government looks the other way knowing that, without their presence, agriculture, construction, and hospitality industries will cease to exist. With that in mind, how do we enjoy the benefits while minimizing the overall impact on society?

The construction industry would cease to exist without Mexican labor? That is news to me. There are just as many high school "drop-outs/duds" today as there were ten years ago who WANT to earn a descent living and support there family in a labor intensive trade such as concrete finishing/framing carpentry/landscaping/roofing. The average white/black 18 year old can't spend two-three years learning a trade when he has to compete with 'Latino' labor that will do the same work for four-five dollars less an hour. If you don't believe me, ask any vocational teacher in Alabama. American kids aren't shying away from vocational classes, they are out there trying to find a skill/trade.

And the arugment you alluded to that the 'cheap' labor pushes construction expenses down is another false arguement. The Mexican labor has been slow to 'push' into the construction trades in the NW corner/ East side of the state. Maybe, because there is a higher demand for labor in B'ham/HSV. I am guessing there is enough 'traditional' labor sources in NW/East AL, because the 'skilled' construction tradesman(electricians/plumbers/cabinet makers/marble cutters) are able to maintain lower estimates/rates in there 'home' areas and push out/travel to HSV/B'ham to gain more work at the rates they charge at home.

The fact is your going to pay more per sq ft to build a house in B'ham/HSV then you are to build a house in Florence/Guntersville/Anniston/Albertville. This in part is due to the real-estate market, but as you mentioned the 'Latino' labor is in full-force in B'ham/HSV, so why isn't construction rates falling there if the labor is cheaper? I know for a fact that certain HomeBuilers/Contractors are taking advantage of the cheap labor and taking the profits to the bank.

And DWK, if you think Tiendas are cool, drive through downtown Albertville on a Sunday afternoon. It might change your mind.

It's all a matter of geography, JD. In Birmingham, I do work for ten different real estate developments in the market. Labor is always a critical problem. Heck, I had one client reduced to driving to Oak Mountain State Park, and asking Katrina refugees if they'd like to work for $15-$18 an hour CASH. When you realize that the unemployment rate in Birmingham is 3.0% (2.2% in Shelby County), then you realize how tight the labor market is. And it isn't simply construction either. When McDonalds on Highway 280 is advertising $11/hour for workers, then you understand how bad the labor shortage is here. That's why Latinos are coming into the market. There are lots of jobs in this market that pay comparably better than they'll find in Texas, Arizona or even California.

[jw 4 au 527]

Here in Decatur, they are essentially a new fad. We have a few small areas of town where they congregate and have opened Tiendas, etc. Kind of cool actually.

However, over the last two years or more we have had a rash of Mexicans arrested for wrecks/DUI and 4-5 high profile murders that were Mexicans. Seems the idea of the hot blooded Latino is correct at some level.

Kudos to otter for using the RIGHT term, Latinos. They are not Hispanic.

Actually, I think both Hispanic and Latino are correct. Incorrect would be Mexican, unless you are actually talking about someone from Mexico. A lot of latino or hispanic-Americans are from Nicaragua, Panama, Guatemala, Venezuala, etc. If you call a non-Mexican a Mexican, they take it as an insult for some reason.

My observations/experiences have been similar to yours, Otter. I have seen heavy construction crews change to mostly hispanic over the past 10 years. At one time, a concrete or paving crew (for example) would have been mostly a mix of black and white laborors, but now they are almost all hispanic. Honestly, they work harder, longer hours and don't complain as much; probably get paid less too. I don't mean that in a derogatory way to anyone, just an observation. This is probably due to the language barrier and the fact that a certain percentage are probably illegal.

My opinion? I think they are, if illegal, unfairly taking jobs from legal tax paying citizens. But we are feeding the frenzy by looking the other way to employers which use these illegals. I know this though, when I am home putting the kids to bed, the hammers are still swinging on the new homes nearby, sometimes even after dark.

[DKW 86 7,975]

Hispanic means they are from the island of Hispaniola, Haiti or the Dom Republic.

If Albertville has a problem, they should fix it. It isnt a problem here in Decatur. The murders are the problems here, and we are putting them away for it.

I got an education from someone in rental property the other day. Latinos are very good tenants usually. They wont tempt fate by being late or abusing the property. They seem to really like being in America.

DO NOT GET ME WRONG. I am still ALL for closing the borders and enforcing the I-9 forms for employment. End contract labor and drive them to get legal or go home.

[Tigermike 3,903]

I know quite a few Latinos in the Birmingham area. All I can say for sure is the ones I know and those who work in the buildings I work in are hard working, honest and family oriented.

Several years ago I needed help moving my youngest daughter and had seen the day labors along the streets in Hoover waiting to be “chosen”. I stopped and was mobbed by 20 – 30 and choose two who could speak fairly good English. After we were in the truck and I told them I would pay them each $50.00 cash and buy their lunch they both said “Nada $100 each!” I then said nada and they got out of the truck. I ended up doing the moving by my self.

PS - I will add that they understand English better than I understand Espagnol. If they like what is said they understand but if they don't like it, they don't understand.

[jw 4 au 527]

Hispanic means they are from the island of Hispaniola, Haiti or the Dom Republic.

If Albertville has a problem, they should fix it. It isnt a problem here in Decatur. The murders are the problems here, and we are putting them away for it.

I got an education from someone in rental property the other day. Latinos are very good tenants usually. They wont tempt fate by being late or abusing the property. They seem to really like being in America.

DO NOT GET ME WRONG. I am still ALL for closing the borders and enforcing the I-9 forms for employment. End contract labor and drive them to get legal or go home.

David, I agree 100% with your view points on illegals, they are beneficial but we need to do things the right way. Right now, we are simply encouraging illegal behavior by looking the other way. But to be a pain in the a$$ and split hairs, I just wanted to clarify the term hispanic again (for arguments sake ).

The term hispanic comes from the word hispania, meaning a derivative of the country of Spain. According to the census, the term hispanic covers the following contries:

Mexican

Puerto Rican

Cuban

Dominican

Guatemalan

Honduran

Nicaraguan

Panamanian

Salvadoran

Colombian

Ecuadorian

Peruvian

So to call someone a hispanic is not an incorrect or derogatory term. However, to call a Columbiam a Mexican, he is offended. I guess it is kind of like calling an Asian an Oriental. It is hard to keep track of what is offensive or not!

[DKW 86 7,975]

Yes, but Latino can also cover someone from Spain, Brazil, Chile, etc, and maybe even Portugal and not be an insult to anyone of them...

See, I err on the least offensive side. This is from Barry Farver btw.

[CCTAU 3,677]

ALL illegals should be deported. No industry would fall. That's absolute crap. Sure they do the job and work hard. They do it for less but its better than living in the hovel they called home. This country has worked ong and hard to stamp out poverty. But now we have these wonderful illegals bringing the very third world country living conditions here, that we have tried so hard to eliminate. We cannot be a country of all things to all people.

Whatever you want to call them, they are illegal. And never kid yourself into thinking that they do not understand you. When one says no hablo ingles, threaten to no hablo his ass and watch him understand that. They are taught to do whatever they want until someone absolutely stands up to them. And any of you out there excusing or accepting it will be the first to bitch and moan when one of the drunk little bastards runs over and kills your child. I was always taught the best way to stop a bad thing is to never let it get started. This country is in big trouble for the next 10 years at least.

[JohnDeere 0]

If Albertville has a problem, they should fix it. It isnt a problem here in Decatur. The murders are the problems here, and we are putting them away for it.

I got an education from someone in rental property the other day. Latinos are very good tenants usually. They wont tempt fate by being late or abusing the property. They seem to really like being in America.

When the Hispanics own every run down building on the Main St. in downtown Decatur, it is too late to do something about it. I know you can't deny them the right to purchase/lease property, but downtown Albertville looks like Little Tiewana.

And they make good tenants, as long as you don't mind 15 of them living in a two-bedroom apartment, with the females running a make shift day care/bean restaurant during the day and then selling dope out the back door at night. Then when they do decide to leave, usually because the neighbors call the INS, they leave in the middle of the night without paying for the current month. My dad was only burned once in this way and it was enough for him to learn to say, "No hablo Mexicano".

And any of you out there excusing or accepting it will be the first to bitch and moan when one of the drunk little bastards runs over and kills your child

A mini-van driven by an 'illegal' ran a stop sign and "t-boned" a cousin of mine in the driver side door. My cousin broke a leg and his neck. It instantly killed the 'illegal' drive. All 8 of the other 'illegals' hoped out of the van at the crash site and ran away.

My father-in-law was driving thru Sheffield. A tire came off the truck(driven by an illegal) in front of him and bounced up and came through his windshield. You think the illegal had a liscense or insurance?

I had another uncle in Washington St. who had bought a vacant commerical building(probably 4000 sq ft) as a potential investment. In the course of 10 days, he estimated about 30 of them got into the building and "squatted". The power and water was not on this building. That didn't keep them from defacating in every room of the building and destroying the sheetrock and starting fires to keep warm inside the building.

It is just a matter of time before the turn the U.S. into a version of Mexico.

[Guest Tigrinum Major]

When the Hispanics own every run down building on the Main St. in downtown Decatur, it is too late to do something about it. I know you can't deny them the right to purchase/lease property, but downtown Albertville looks like Little Tiewana.

Tijuana.

[GalensGhost 0]

I think they should be required to learn and speak English. Gabbing in Spanish while ogling my daughter at Lowe's is unacceptable to me and should be a crime. I'd at least like to know what they're saying.