This post is dedicated to SPUAT Grad 03

[whiteplainstiger 0]

I have been gone from this board for a couple of months, but I come back and see your post making fun of David Irons wonderlic score. For your information, there have been several Bammer players who have made incredibly low scores on the Wonderlic Test in the last couple of years.

Antwan Odom scored a 10 on the Wonderlic Test.

Kenny King scored a 9 on the Wonderlic Test .

Freddie Roach scored an 8 on the Wonderlic Test last year.

Santonio Beard scored a 7 on the Wonderlic Test.

You have to be retarded or mentally handicapped to make below a 10 on the Wonderlic Test. Auburn has had two players who have made below a 10 on the Wonderlic Test and those two players are Junior Rosegreen and David Irons. The Bammers have had four players that have scored below a 10 on the Wonderlic Test and those are the four players I mentioned above. That means the Bammers have had twice as many players who have scored a 10 or below on the Wonderlic Test than Auburn has had. I guess that means the Bammers have twice as many retarded football players than Auburn has. How did all four of the retards I mentioned make it through school in Tuscaloser? You and the rest of the dumbass Bammers should worry about your own retarded players before you come over here talking smack about Auburn's players. And I guarantee you there are plenty of retarded players in Tuscaloser to worry about.

[whiteplainstiger 0]

Freddie Roach is the person who made the lowest score on the Wonderlic Test last year when he scored an 8 on the Wonderlic Test. Santonio Beard made the lowest score on the Wonderlic Test or close to it a couple of years ago when he scored a 7 on the Wonderlic Test. And when you throw in the 10 that Anwan Odom scored on the Wonderlic Test and the 9 that Kenny King scored on the Wonderlic Test, it seems to me that Bammer is the school that needs a class on the Wonderlic Test, not Auburn

[BamaGrad03 0]

First, it'd be great if you'd put my comments into context. I wasn't dogging DI at all. I never called him retarded. As a matter of fact, I don't think his problem on the test had anything to do with mental acuity. I think it has everything to do with these guys not realizing (or not caring) how high profile these reports are.

As far as Alabama is concerned, you don't get a lot of negative press on a wonderlic score of 10. You get a 2, it makes news. You get a 4 and you are supposed to go in the first or second round, it makes news.

It also makes news when your program is recovering from a NYT article that brought everything to the forefront. Not that it had much merit...and not that every school doesn't push kids through like AU (because they do)...but AU was singled out. So when you have a guy come up with a 4 on the wonderlic, it's going to be paired with that article.

Also, Alabama doesn't puff their chest out in regards to their football APR scores at every turn like AU does. So when you talk a big game about academics, and you have two players in 2 years score lower than an 8 year old would...it's going to draw some attention.

If you read my post for what it said, instead of getting all pissed off, you would have seen that my comment was far less about DI...and far more about AU as a University, and their need to realize that these low scores come back to them.

You forget that I am a resident of the State of Alabama. I'm very proud and mindful of how MY STATE schools represent themselves in regards to academics. People here think that I hate Auburn University because I am a graduate of Alabama. That is so far from the case. I don't like the football team. But I want the school to be the best it can. Same goes for UA. If Freddie Roach was a high profile draftee, and he made a 2, I would be very upset. Not because of Freddie...he'll go on to make millions...what does he care? No, I'd be upset because a 2 makes news. A 10 doesn't.

[AURainman 6]

...As a matter of fact, I don't think his problem on the test had anything to do with mental acuity. I think it has everything to do with these guys not realizing (or not caring) how high profile these reports are.

...It also makes news when your program is recovering from a NYT article that brought everything to the forefront. Not that it had much merit...and not that every school doesn't push kids through like AU (because they do)...but AU was singled out. So when you have a guy come up with a 4 on the wonderlic, it's going to be paired with that article.

...Also, Alabama doesn't puff their chest out in regards to their football APR scores at every turn like AU does. So when you talk a big game about academics, and you have two players in 2 years score lower than an 8 year old would...it's going to draw some attention.

Well aren't you just a good samaritan!

Don't feed us the line that you weren't trying to talk smack, and that you weren't dogging DI.

I'll tell you what I think.

A. You are bitter about the APR that Auburn has (and probably feel it isn't valid).

B. You are looking for chances to shoot holes in it.

C. David Irons' learning disability causes him to perform poorly on tests, though YOU didn't know this.

D. DI's scores HORRIBLY on the Wonderlich.

E. You hear about DI's low score, and scramble to teh internets to slam Auburn, in order to "get back at" Auburn. You 'cleverly' mask that disdain in an appeal to try to HELP point out that Auburn needs to get some help for these "poor dumb kids that Auburn pushes through the system."

F. You bring up the NYT article as further evidence that something's gone awry at Auburn.

G. We call you to the carpet on how DI has never been a great student, it took him 5.5 years to graduate, and he has a learning disability that requires him extra time on tests (something the Wonderlich test didn't allow)

H. You slink away quietly without rebuttal.

Is that appropriate context?

[SouthLink02 8]

Wonderlic scores sort of weird me out

Greene - Got a 19 on the Wonderlic....yet, everyone knows he is a very intelligent kid both on and off the field

Chris Leak - Got an 8

I think UGA has had some terrible Wonderlic scores...I know Odell Thurman got a 12 and I am sure we have a few around that low.

But, good grief...below a 10? How? I mean...I know some questions are tough....but below 10? Really?

[AUesquire 1]

I still think none of these guys are really taking this thing seriously. Why would you? The bottom line is that if you can run like the wind, if you can play lock down corner, if you can catch anything thrown your way, if you can hit like a ton of bricks or pancake hapless D-linemen....

an NFL team is NOT going to say, "Yeah but, he only scored a 7 on the Wonderdick test. Better not sign this moron."

[SouthLink02 8]

an NFL team is NOT going to say, "Yeah but, he only scored a 7 on the Wonderdick test. Better not sign this moron."

Ok, I agree that teams won't draft Player A because they have a 25 over a player that has a 20 strictly because of their Wonderlic.

Disagree that NFL teams won't look at it and wonder if it is extremely low.

Why wouldn't a player take it seriously? Do great and teams are encouraged and your stock can only go up. Do terrible and you get a ton of bad press.

Remember when Young got the terrible score? It was all over the news. Now, he did get drafted high and is doing well...I am NOT arguing that it matters...simply that teams do look at it somewhat seriously if it is terribly low.

ProFootballTalk.com broke the story of Young's score Sunday, and several NFL scouts confirmed it. Any score less than 15 is extremely low for a quarterback, and most teams want players at that position to score at least a 20.

"It raises a huge red flag," said Jeep Chryst, a former NFL assistant attending the combine as an at-large scout.

Remember when Akili Smith was in the draft? Guess what made his stock rise even higher...

Recently, Akili Smith cemented his status as the second best quarterback in the draft. It wasn't what he did with a football in his hand, but with a pencil. No. 2, no doubt.

At the scouting combine, the Oregon quarterback took the Wonderlic Personnel Test. He scored a 37, which means he probably can build a bomb as well as throw one. To put his score in perspective, Steve Young, considered one of the brightest players in the NFL, scored a 33 when he took the test. One year, the highest score of any player was a 38. The highest score this year was a 43, strangely enough by another Oregon quarterback, Jason Maas.

Now of course...Young did bad and is still well, Smith did great and sucks...so, you could make the point that Wonderlic scores are idiotic

But it does help you stock/hurt your stock if you do really well/bad for players looking to go 1st/2nd round, imo.

[Mikey 16,734]

Also, Alabama doesn't puff their chest out in regards to their football APR scores at every turn like AU does.

Of course not. It would be hard for UAT to do much chest puffing, considering their low standing in the APR scores.

[runswithscissors 33]

Also, Alabama doesn't puff their chest out in regards to their football APR scores at every turn like AU does.

Of course not. It would be hard for UAT to do much chest puffing, considering their low standing in the APR scores.

give it another year, and i doubt AU will be doing much chest puffing. afterall, there's alot out there about guys that are really going to have to get at it during the summer to qualify.

[BamaGrad03 0]

Well aren't you just a good samaritan!

Don't feed us the line that you weren't trying to talk smack, and that you weren't dogging DI.

I'll tell you what I think.

A. You are bitter about the APR that Auburn has (and probably feel it isn't valid).

B. You are looking for chances to shoot holes in it.

C. David Irons' learning disability causes him to perform poorly on tests, though YOU didn't know this.

D. DI's scores HORRIBLY on the Wonderlich.

E. You hear about DI's low score, and scramble to teh internets to slam Auburn, in order to "get back at" Auburn. You 'cleverly' mask that disdain in an appeal to try to HELP point out that Auburn needs to get some help for these "poor dumb kids that Auburn pushes through the system."

F. You bring up the NYT article as further evidence that something's gone awry at Auburn.

G. We call you to the carpet on how DI has never been a great student, it took him 5.5 years to graduate, and he has a learning disability that requires him extra time on tests (something the Wonderlich test didn't allow)

H. You slink away quietly without rebuttal.

Is that appropriate context?

Yet even more proof that you guys don't READ what I post. You have such a large chip on your shoulder about everything that comes from a rival fan...you don't even try to read it. You have these pre-formed ideas of what I'm TRYING to say or what I'm REALLY meaning...that you don't take it for face value.

I said in my first posts about DI that it was more to do with Auburn's perception and how it doesn't look good...than how it looks for DI. And you guys keep trying to make me out to be this bad guy like I'm attacking some guy who's LD. Whatever. That's so childish.

DI may have scored horribly on the wonderlic, but I promise you he could have done better. And that's exactly my point. The guy isn't stupid. Learning Disabled or not, the guy could have scored better than a 4. And that futhers my point. BECAUSE DI could have scored a 0 on the wonderlic and still got drafted, it didn't mean much to him. But it doesn't help AU's academic perception.

And you can act like the NYT article didn't ever happen. But me bringing it up doesn't make me evil. I brought it up because I was pointing out what people who aren't homers are going to say about Auburn. I brought it up because those same people ARE going to link it to poor wonderlic scores. Believe it or not, EVERYONE doesn't love AU like you.

I don't know how many times I have to say it. I swear if I say the sky is blue, you guys attack me because "no BG, you may SAY the sky is blue...but you really MEAN the sky is black".

Get back at Auburn? When did I ever say anything about AU needed to "help these kids"? You act like I'm slamming AU over their academic standing when I've said 11,000 times that...wait on it...

EVERY SINGLE SCHOOL DOES IT. AUBURN IS NO DIFFERENT FROM 99% OF D1 PROGRAMS WHO PUSH PLAYERS THROUGH WITH EASY CLASSES AND LOWER STANDARDS.

If you are still having trouble with your reading comprehension, I'll draw you a picture.

[whiteplainstiger 0]

BamaGrad, you are full of crap just like usual. From what I understand, a 10 is the cut off line for the Wonderlic Test. It doesnt matter if they score an 8 or a 2, you have to question the mental abilities of anybody who scores below a 10 on the Wonderlic Test. The Bammers have had four players who scored below a 10 on the Wonderlic Test in the last 6 or 7 years. You still havent explained how those four players made it through school in Tuscaloser. Just so you know, I plan to post a lot more articles in this thread about how the Bammers have been committing academic fraud for a long time. Albert Means, Michael Gaines, and Harold James all cheated on their ACt test to get into school at Bammer while Mike DuBose was the head coach. Santonio Beard, Mac Tyler, and Gerard all attended a diploma mill called Milford Aacademy to cheat their GPA up to a high enough level so that they could get into school at Bammer. Once players were enrolled in school at Bammer, they were steered to General Studies classes that required little or nor work so these players could remain eligible to play football for Bammer. In fact, the Bammers are still steering players to General Studies classes that require little or no work even as we speak today. I alos plan to post articles in this thread that show Nick Saban committed academic fraud while he was at LSU. By the time I get through posting articles about the Bammers and Nick Saban both committing academic fraud, SPUAT Grad 03 will be crying like a little girl like he usually does.

[whiteplainstiger 0]

The following article about LSU changing players grades to keep them eligible happened while Nick Saban was the head coach at LSU. That article proves Nick Saban committed academic fraud while he was at LSU. Of course, Nick Saban has really cheated his entire coaching career. He was one of the coaches involved in the bidding war for Albert Means while he was at Michigan State , and he was involved in an academic fraud case involving grade changing while he was at LSU.

http://www.fanblogs.com/sec/004732.php

LSU bumped students grades before 2000 Peach Bow

LSU has settled a lawsuit brought by former professor (some say campus whistle-blower) Caroline Owen. LSU says that it settled to put the issue to rest. Owen says that the settlement basically proves her claims that LSU changed players grades so they could play in the bowl game.

Owen and another kinesiology instructor, Tiffany Mayne, sued LSU in 2002, saying they were pressured to change football players' grades and hide academic misconduct during the 2000-01 school year to keep players eligible for the Peach Bowl....

After an investigation into the allegations of academic fraud, LSU admitted to five secondary NCAA violations, transferred the former head of the Academic Center for Student Athletes and moved control of the center from the athletic department to the provost.

[whiteplainstiger 0]

Do you understand that article Spuat Grad 03? That articles proves that your new coach cheated his ass off while he was at LSU.

Stay tuned: There is more information to come about the Bammers committing academic fraud. By the time I get finsihed with this thread, Spuat Grad 03 will have wished that he would have kept his damn mouth shut about David Irons.

[whiteplainstiger 0]

This is part of an interview Lynn Lang gave to the Memphis Commercial Appeal. In this interview, Lynn Lang claims Albert Means cheated on his ACT test to get into school at Bammer. Actually Lynn Lang claims another student took the ACT test in place of Albert Means.

Getting someone to take Means's ACT was simple.

"We had a student get a slip stamped by a counselor at Trezevant, and he went to West Memphis and took the test," Lang said. "That's how we did that. That was easy."

Lang said the student - Trezevant Class of 1998 product and former Golden Bear running back Carl Cunningham - was paid, "about $30" to do it. He added it was necessary because it took Means 15 attempts to pass the TCAP

[whiteplainstiger 0]

Here is another article about Saban committing academic fraud while he was at LSU.

Here is the link.

http://tsn.sportingnews.com/cfootball/arti...725/484738.html

BATON ROUGE, La. -- LSU coach Nick Saban answered questions under oath as part of a pair of law suits that accused the school and athletic department of academic improprieties.

Baton Rouge civil rights attorney Jill Craft interviewed Saban in a formal deposition oath for almost two hours. Craft represents former kinesiology instructors Caroline Owen and Tiffany Mayne, who filed lawsuits in March and May 2002 charging misdeeds regarding football players in the kinesiology department and academic center for student-athletes.

Owen and Mayne filed the suits shortly after LSU opened an internal investigation in January 2002 of academic fraud involving the football program. LSU completed its investigation in August 2002 and turned it over to the NCAA.

LSU admitted to five secondary NCAA violations as it completed its investigation and awaits NCAA rulings on its case. Those violations involved academic mentors and tutors writing and typing papers for football players and an academic employee arranging for a football prospect to receive five hours of free tutoring and a place to study.

In the meantime, Craft and co-counsel Aidan Reynolds have been gathering information for the two lawsuits since August 2002 as they work toward a possible trial.

"We wanted to talk to him based on what Karla Lemoine told us," Craft said. "Coach Saban met with Karla Lemoine once a week (in 2000 and 2001)."

Lemoine, the former director of the academic center who was demoted last summer and transferred to another department at LSU, gave her deposition to Craft recently.

"I can say generally that the deposition with coach Saban went well," said Craft, who wouldn't give details on the deposition. "We asked questions and obtained information we were looking for in the litigation. Everyone was cordial and professional toward the questions that were asked."

Saban said he was advised not to comment by lawyers.

Besides Lemoine, Craft previously took depositions from kinesiology department head Amelia Lee, who was mentioned prominently in both lawsuits. Kinesiology was a popular major among LSU football players in 2000 and 2001, which is the time covered in the lawsuits. In the meantime, LSU attorneys have taken a deposition from Mayne and plan to depose Owen, Craft said.

According to documents obtained by The Advocate, Craft and Reynolds have plans to depose many more, including LSU Athletic Director Skip Bertman.

"There is a universe of people we want to talk to," Craft said. "We also have some outstanding requests for documents and records, and the number of our interviews will depend on what those records say." Craft and Reynolds have requested more than 520 student records. Craft said she was undecided if she would depose Saban again.

"I'd hate to do that (depose Saban again)," Craft said. "He's a busy guy."

LSU football practice starts on Aug. 6.

Copyright 2003 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

[whiteplainstiger 0]

This is an article in the Dallas Morning news that shows the kind of easy classes Brodie Croyle, JB Closner, and Charlie Peprah were taking during their season year back in 2005.

Here is the link.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...er.2d1ca13.html

JB Closner from San Antonio Clark is one of seven Tide players who graduated in May. Southeastern Conference rules require players to pass six hours to be eligible to play in a bowl, and Closner said he found an independent study class worth six hours' credit.

"Like a diamond in the rough," he said of the class, smiling. "Had to write a five-page paper. I was done with that by September."

Quarterback Brodie Croyle, another graduate, took the same course. "I kind of slacked up a little bit," he said, looking at the ground. "I got done in December."

Said Peprah: "I actually had some pretty tough classes. Not P.E. or music, the art of cartwheels or whatever classes they were taking."

When Croyle was asked who had it tougher, himself or USC quarterback Matt Leinart (who took only ballroom dancing last semester), he said, "Probably him."

[whiteplainstiger 0]

This article shows the kind of easy subjects Bammer football players major in and the kind of easy classes they take to stay eligible to play football.

Here is the link.

http://www.blogs.al.com/default.asp?item=272059

Athletes make academic end run

Posted by Ken Booth November 7, 2006 14:07

Print | Email

JON SOLOMON

News staff writer

The class was easy enough for Ahmad Childress, then a University of Alabama football player: Write about football.

For three credits one summer, Childress said, he and five teammates composed an entire football class that required only instructing a football camp for kids in Gulf Shores and writing a four-page essay.

"That was the whole class. I got an A," Childress said. "Yeah, it was a little weird, but sometimes you've got to do what you've got to do to be eligible."

In the world of big-time college athletics, eligibility can trump education. The pressure to win ball games and make money creates, for better and for worse, a special path for some athletes to remain academically eligible to play.

That path is lined with fancy academic centers for athletes and a support army of academic advisers and tutors.

It is marked also with easy classes to which some athletes gravitate.

The so-called "jock majors" vary by school, based on an analysis by The Birmingham News of majors listed in football media guides at Alabama, Auburn University and UAB during the past four years.

At Auburn, the most popular football major is sociology, accounting for 17 percent of the team's declared majors. This season, football players are 35 times more likely to major in sociology than the student body. Less than 1 percent of the student body chooses that major.

Since summer, Auburn has been investigating the expanded number of directed-reading courses in sociology and some other fields - courses that produced mostly high grades. Two professors have resigned.

At Alabama, the most popular football major is general studies in the College of Human Environmental Sciences. Twenty-six percent of football players majored in general studies in HES compared with 2 percent of all Alabama students.

UAB football players gravitate to history (22 percent), communication studies (16 percent) and criminal justice (15 percent). Those majors represent 2 percent, 4 percent and 3 percent of the student body, respectively.

The clustering of athletes in certain majors isn't necessarily unethical or against a university's policy, and is common on most campuses.

"I don't know why anybody in the world would expect the students who arrive with lesser academic credentials not to end up in the easiest majors," said University of Alabama law Professor Gene Marsh, the school's former faculty athletics representative.

"But people who say it's OK to end up with athletes huddled in particular majors because of their time demands don't understand reality. There are many students working many hours a week in part-time jobs" and they do not cluster into easy majors, he said.

Linda Bensel-Meyers, a University of Denver professor who once alleged academic misconduct at the University of Tennessee, said soft majors and classes provide a grade cushion to maintain eligibility. But the greatest threats, she said, are grade changes and waiving of standard university policies, such as course prerequisites, to benefit athletes.

"It enables some athletes to appear to be enrolled in a college curriculum," Bensel-Meyers said. "In fact, they are merely being housed until their eligibility expires, often to graduate without an education."

Academic survival

Many athletes don't need a special path through college - they take challenging courses without the need for extra guidance. But at every school, pockets of athletes who struggle academically find ways to stay eligible.

Alabama cornerback Simeon Castille wishes he were still a communications major. He wants to become a broadcaster.

He's a general studies major in the College of Human Environmental Sciences now because "I screwed up, and this is getting me back on track to graduate."

Castille was academically ineligible for the Cotton Bowl last season. He became lazy, he said, and passed only three credits in the fall 2005 semester, leading to his ineligibility and a change in major.

General studies in HES is a popular place for key Alabama football players. It accounts for 40 percent of the majors for undergrad starters in 2006, as of Oct. 14, according to the team's media guide.

General studies combines two or more existing majors from the College of Human Environmental Sciences: apparel and textiles, athletic training, consumer sciences, early childhood education, food and nutrition, health studies, human development and family studies, interior design, and restaurant and hospitality management.

"It's a safe home for athletes to be eligible for football and other sports, too," said Childress, the former Alabama defensive tackle who was a general studies major. "You really don't do too much work. You're basically taking notes in class."

Childress said he was made aware of HES general studies by advisers in the athletics department.

After going on academic probation when his grade-point average fell to 1.7, Childress said he used easy general studies courses and electives to increase his mark to the 2.5 the university said he needed to play.

Childress, an arena football player who is 15 credits shy of graduating, said he regrets treating academics so lightly and blames himself. He wishes he had told advisers he was interested in human resources instead of easily accepting classes that would keep him playing football.

"Nobody never challenged me. I wish somebody had. But . ?. ?. at that time, you're a grown man. It's on you."

'If it's meeting needs . . .'

Jon Dever, Alabama's assistant athletics director for student services, said he was not aware of a football class as described by Childress. Athletes, he said, are not steered or encouraged to take HES general studies.

HES Dean Milla Boschung said she was surprised to learn the number of football players in her college, but does not believe general studies has the perception of being a "jock major."

"I just had no idea who is an athlete and who is not in our college," she said. "We just consider them our students. We think that's the right thing." HES Associate Dean Olivia Kendrick said the number of general-studies majors has risen sharply among all students since a change in the major. "At one time it required that you take certain courses in each area, and that was really planned more for people who were teaching family and consumer sciences in high school," she said. "We made it more liberal so students could plan their own study."

Kendrick said the number of football players in general studies is not a concern.

"Well, good," she said when told the number. "If it's meeting the needs, that's great. We have good, professional programs. If I had the concern it was too easy, I'd do something about it."

Which major?

Alabama offensive lineman Antoine Caldwell said he chose general studies because he hasn't decided on a career and liked picking classes in finance, business and law. This semester, he has a financial planning class, a computer course, a health and fitness class, and he mentors kids. "You can take a lot of classes to kind of build your own degree, and I kind of always liked that."

Finding a major is not simple. For example, the College of Education requires at least a 2.75 grade-point average for admission, Dever said. The required GPA for HES is the same as for admission to the university.

At UAB, 61 percent of this season's starting football players, as of Oct. 14, major in history or communication studies, according to the team media guide. Six percent of UAB students major in those disciplines.

Mark Hickson, a communication studies professor at UAB, believes his department is popular because football players typically do not have good math skills. Students in communications and most social sciences, such as history, are required to take only one math course. The same is true of general studies at Alabama.

Additionally, Hickson said, these fields have professors who live in "a more ambiguous world. Thus, their students are less likely to have to answer specific factual questions."

UAB interim athletics director Richard Margison said the clustering of football players in particular majors reflects "athletes making their own choices, athletes talking to athletes. Nothing about that would alarm me."

Higher stakes

The NCAA has raised the bar - and the stakes - for athletes and athletics departments with requirements that don't affect other students. The new Academic Progress Rate assesses team penalties, such as lost scholarships, when an athlete becomes academically ineligible and leaves school. The NCAA also requires athletes to complete 40 percent of their degree work after their second year, 60 percent after the third and 80 percent after the fourth to remain eligible to play.

"Athletes are not representative of the general student body," complained Phil Hughes, who has directed student-athlete support programs at Michigan and Kansas State. "Our population is apples; their population is oranges."

Raising the bar for athletes will motivate them to find a way to reach higher, Hughes believes. That begs the question: How do they find a way? Are they shepherded through easy courses, cutting corners with the help of friendly faculty and administrators, or truly improving their academic skills?

"All of the above," Hughes said.

Two Auburn professors were forced to resign as department heads in August because they provided too many easy, directed-reading courses to athletes and non-athletes in sociology, criminology and adult education. Compared with the student body, a disproportionate number of athletes, including 18 football players from the undefeated 2004 team, took directed-reading courses in that department.

Auburn sociology Professor Jim Gundlach said his data showed that in one semester, 97.9 percent of athletes and non-athletes in classes taught by Thomas Petee received A's or B's.

Gundlach said records and his observations of Peetee lead him to believe that Peetee first expanded his directed-reading courses "for people he was acquainted with. I think he really enjoyed being in the company of the famous athletes."

Petee said in August he expanded outside-the-classroom, directed-reading courses for athletes and non-athletes because there weren't enough classroom faculty to accommodate increased enrollment in the department.

Virgil Starks, senior associate athletics director for student services, cited two reasons he is not concerned about the number of sociology and criminology majors on the football team, even though those departments were involved in the directed-readings case: Athletes still must take the core curriculum designed by the university, and athletes often must choose majors that will readily translate into jobs after college.

Lynn Lashbrook, who directed the University of Missouri's academic support services for athletes and has been a professor, said friendly faculty are simply products of improper checks and balances at universities. Auburn has since changed procedure for directed readings.

"But it's also OK to say in athletics, 'This really smells,'" Lashbrook said. "We don't do enough sniffing because we don't want to know."

'You study women'

At Alabama, some current football players say Introduction to Women's Studies is a popular elective used to boost grades.

Women's studies, which is a minor but not a major, produced 78.1 percent A's in entry-level courses from 2000 to 2002, the highest percentage in the College of Arts and Sciences, according to data from Alabama. The next highest was 51.4 percent for theater.

Freshman football player Javier Arenas, who wants to become a teacher and coach, said teammates encouraged him to take a women's studies class because it would boost his GPA before taking harder classes.

Arenas described women's studies this way: "It's what it sounds like. You study women. Me and another football player are the only two guys in there."

[BamaGrad03 0]

BamaGrad, you are full of crap just like usual. From what I understand, a 10 is the cut off line for the Wonderlic Test. It doesnt matter if they score an 8 or a 2, you have to question the mental abilities of anybody who scores below a 10 on the Wonderlic Test. The Bammers have had four players who scored below a 10 on the Wonderlic Test in the last 6 or 7 years. You still havent explained how those four players made it through school in Tuscaloser. Just so you know, I plan to post a lot more articles in this thread about how the Bammers have been committing academic fraud for a long time. Albert Means, Michael Gaines, and Harold James all cheated on their ACt test to get into school at Bammer while Mike DuBose was the head coach. Santonio Beard, Mac Tyler, and Gerard all attended a diploma mill called Milford Aacademy to cheat their GPA up to a high enough level so that they could get into school at Bammer. Once players were enrolled in school at Bammer, they were steered to General Studies classes that required little or nor work so these players could remain eligible to play football for Bammer. In fact, the Bammers are still steering players to General Studies classes that require little or no work even as we speak today. I alos plan to post articles in this thread that show Nick Saban committed academic fraud while he was at LSU. By the time I get through posting articles about the Bammers and Nick Saban both committing academic fraud, SPUAT Grad 03 will be crying like a little girl like he usually does.

The only person who's mental abilities I question is your own. Why is it that I CONTINUE to say that Auburn isn't any worse than any other school in terms of how they push athletes through the program...yet you continue to fail in grasping such a simple concept? Are you mentally challenged? Do you have to type your posts while wearing a special helmet? Do you fall down a lot? Do you have a drool cup next to your computer?

Since you constantly ignore my points, I'm beginning to think that you started this thread with no intention of discussing my stance on wonderlic scores. No, you started this thread so you could dig up some old &)!* about Alabama. Could you be more transparent? Why didn't you just title the thread: "I feel inferior and I'm mad that no one in the media is talking about Alabama's academics"...subtitle reading: "I want to post some old (*^) that has been hashed out over and over".

Did you SERIOUSLY post a comment from Lang? Did you SERIOUSLY dig up some crap about Michael Gaines from 1999? Dude, that was 8 years ago. We have a different Coach, different AD, different President. So what's your point? Would you like me to dig up some AU probation stuff from the 50s? You know what's funny, you brought up Michael, Harold, Albert, and Santonio...everyone of those guys were ruled academically ineligible and had to leave Alabama. Santonio left "for the draft" but it was because the coaches told him he could no longer play at Alabama.

What are we debating here? I keep saying I'm on AU's side in terms of academics and how D1 schools treat athletes. Yet you keep wanting to dig up all this old crap about Bama. I don't get it.

You aren't even arguing the same thing.

[GalensGhost 0]

I have been gone from this board for a couple of months, but I come back and see your post making fun of David Irons wonderlic score. For your information, there have been several Bammer players who have made incredibly low scores on the Wonderlic Test in the last couple of years.

Antwan Odom scored a 10 on the Wonderlic Test.

Kenny King scored a 9 on the Wonderlic Test .

Freddie Roach scored an 8 on the Wonderlic Test last year.

Santonio Beard scored a 7 on the Wonderlic Test.

You have to be retarded or mentally handicapped to make below a 10 on the Wonderlic Test. Auburn has had two players who have made below a 10 on the Wonderlic Test and those two players are Junior Rosegreen and David Irons. The Bammers have had four players that have scored below a 10 on the Wonderlic Test and those are the four players I mentioned above. That means the Bammers have had twice as many players who have scored a 10 or below on the Wonderlic Test than Auburn has had. I guess that means the Bammers have twice as many retarded football players than Auburn has. How did all four of the retards I mentioned make it through school in Tuscaloser? You and the rest of the dumbass Bammers should worry about your own retarded players before you come over here talking smack about Auburn's players. And I guarantee you there are plenty of retarded players in Tuscaloser to worry about.

We don't use the word "retarded" any more. We call them something else, but I can't remember what it is.

[townhallsavoy 2]

I have been gone from this board for a couple of months, but I come back and see your post making fun of David Irons wonderlic score. For your information, there have been several Bammer players who have made incredibly low scores on the Wonderlic Test in the last couple of years.

Antwan Odom scored a 10 on the Wonderlic Test.

Kenny King scored a 9 on the Wonderlic Test .

Freddie Roach scored an 8 on the Wonderlic Test last year.

Santonio Beard scored a 7 on the Wonderlic Test.

You have to be retarded or mentally handicapped to make below a 10 on the Wonderlic Test. Auburn has had two players who have made below a 10 on the Wonderlic Test and those two players are Junior Rosegreen and David Irons. The Bammers have had four players that have scored below a 10 on the Wonderlic Test and those are the four players I mentioned above. That means the Bammers have had twice as many players who have scored a 10 or below on the Wonderlic Test than Auburn has had. I guess that means the Bammers have twice as many retarded football players than Auburn has. How did all four of the retards I mentioned make it through school in Tuscaloser? You and the rest of the dumbass Bammers should worry about your own retarded players before you come over here talking smack about Auburn's players. And I guarantee you there are plenty of retarded players in Tuscaloser to worry about.

We don't use the word "retarded" any more. We call them something else, but I can't remember what it is.

Didn't we drop the "re?" It's just Tard now, right?

[abrnfanatc 6]

I think the correct term is PERRY.

[Tiger in Spain 0]

"I got done in December." - Brodie Croyle

[whiteplainstiger 0]

The class was easy enough for Ahmad Childress, then a University of Alabama football player: Write about football.

For three credits one summer, Childress said, he and five teammates composed an entire football class that required only instructing a football camp for kids in Gulf Shores and writing a four-page essay.

"That was the whole class. I got an A," Childress said. "Yeah, it was a little weird, but sometimes you've got to do what you've got to do to be eligible."

Academic survival

Many athletes don't need a special path through college - they take challenging courses without the need for extra guidance. But at every school, pockets of athletes who struggle academically find ways to stay eligible.

Alabama cornerback Simeon Castille wishes he were still a communications major. He wants to become a broadcaster.

He's a general studies major in the College of Human Environmental Sciences now because "I screwed up, and this is getting me back on track to graduate."

Castille was academically ineligible for the Cotton Bowl last season. He became lazy, he said, and passed only three credits in the fall 2005 semester, leading to his ineligibility and a change in major.

General studies in HES is a popular place for key Alabama football players. It accounts for 40 percent of the majors for undergrad starters in 2006, as of Oct. 14, according to the team's media guide.

General studies combines two or more existing majors from the College of Human Environmental Sciences: apparel and textiles, athletic training, consumer sciences, early childhood education, food and nutrition, health studies, human development and family studies, interior design, and restaurant and hospitality management.

"It's a safe home for athletes to be eligible for football and other sports, too," said Childress, the former Alabama defensive tackle who was a general studies major. "You really don't do too much work. You're basically taking notes in class."

Childress said he was made aware of HES general studies by advisers in the athletics department.

After going on academic probation when his grade-point average fell to 1.7, Childress said he used easy general studies courses and electives to increase his mark to the 2.5 the university said he needed to play.

Childress, an arena football player who is 15 credits shy of graduating, said he regrets treating academics so lightly and blames himself. He wishes he had told advisers he was interested in human resources instead of easily accepting classes that would keep him playing football.

"Nobody never challenged me. I wish somebody had. But . ?. ?. at that time, you're a grown man. It's on you."

'If it's meeting needs . . .'

Jon Dever, Alabama's assistant athletics director for student services, said he was not aware of a football class as described by Childress. Athletes, he said, are not steered or encouraged to take HES general studies.

HES Dean Milla Boschung said she was surprised to learn the number of football players in her college, but does not believe general studies has the perception of being a "jock major."

"I just had no idea who is an athlete and who is not in our college," she said. "We just consider them our students. We think that's the right thing

'You study women'

At Alabama, some current football players say Introduction to Women's Studies is a popular elective used to boost grades.

Women's studies, which is a minor but not a major, produced 78.1 percent A's in entry-level courses from 2000 to 2002, the highest percentage in the College of Arts and Sciences, according to data from Alabama. The next highest was 51.4 percent for theater.

Freshman football player Javier Arenas, who wants to become a teacher and coach, said teammates encouraged him to take a women's studies class because it would boost his GPA before taking harder classes.

Arenas described women's studies this way: "It's what it sounds like. You study women. Me and another football player are the only two guys in there."

That article was published in the Birmingham News last fall, not eight years ago. The Bammers have never stopped their players from taking the type of easy classes described in that article. The Bammer athletic department is still steering football players toward taking classes that require little or no work so they can still eligible to play football even as we speak today. If you consider players taking easy classes that require little or no work to be academic fraud, then the Bammers are still committing academic fraud today. And the new coach the Bammers have is a cheater plain and simple. Did you read the article I posted about the grade changing scandal that Saban was involved in at LSU? s Nick Saban cheated while he was coaching at Michigan State. He cheated while he was at LSU. Nick Saban has been a cheater his entire coaching career. Since Nick Saban has cheated his entire coaching career, he should be a perfect fit at a school that has been cheating non-stop since the 1920's like the Bammers. A school that has been cheating since the 1920's like the Bammers, and a coach who has cheated his entire coaching career like Nick Saban are a match made in hell.

[whiteplainstiger 0]

No, you started this thread so you could dig up some old &)!* about Alabama. Could you be more transparent? Why didn't you just title the thread: "I feel inferior and I'm mad that no one in the media is talking about Alabama's academics"...subtitle reading: "I want to post some old (*^) that has been hashed out over and over".

/

I started this thread to show what a hypocrite you are specifically and what a bunch of hypocrites Bammers are in general. You come on this board talking smack about David Irons making a low score on the Wonderlic Test, but you ignore the fact that several Bammer players have also made low scores on the Wonderlic Test. You also talk smack about the story the New York Times wrote about Auburn, but you ignore the fact that your own school has been steering football players toward classes that require little or no work for the last 9 or 10 years.

Next time before you come on this board and say anything about Auburn players making low scores on the Wonderlic Test, you should worry about your own players making low scores on the Wonderlic Test. And before you say anything about the article the New York Times wrote about Auburn, you should worry about your own school steering football players toward classes that require little or no work for them to stay eligible.

[BamaGrad03 0]

I started this thread to show what a hypocrite you are specifically and what a bunch of hypocrites Bammers are in general. You come on this board talking smack about David Irons making a low score on the Wonderlic Test, but you ignore the fact that several Bammer players have also made low scores on the Wonderlic Test. You also talk smack about the story the New York Times wrote about Auburn, but you ignore the fact that your own school has been steering football players toward classes that require little or no work for the last 9 or 10 years.

Next time before you come on this board and say anything about Auburn players making low scores on the Wonderlic Test, you should worry about your own players making low scores on the Wonderlic Test. And before you say anything about the article the New York Times wrote about Auburn, you should worry about your own school steering football players toward classes that require little or no work for them to stay eligible.

Congrats, you have mastered the skill of reading without understanding. I'm pretty sure you haven't read any of my posts in this thread. If you have read them, and continue to post this junk, I'm feeling more and more confident that you are reading my posts from a padded room.