townhallsavoy 2 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 IF Hawaii should so happen to beat Georgia, whom many believe to be one of the hottest teams in the nation right now, do you believe they should be considered a true mythical national champion? This would mean they aren't BCS champions or AP champions, but the team that got the snub? Similar to AU in 2004. A lot of people have argued against Hawaii competing for the NC because they aren't in a BCS conference and their schedule is weak. On the contrary to that argument, Georgia is #5 with an impressive win streak. By defeating Georgia, there won't be many more excuses to exclude Hawaii from national title talks. What ya think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shire5k 19 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 I think there should be a playoff...but in regards to this year, I think their strength of schedule keeps them from being NCs. I don't think they'll beat Georgia anyway, though. If Hawaii goes undefeated, they still don't have near the argument you guys did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashandarei 0 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 I think there should be a playoff...but in regards to this year, I think their strength of schedule keeps them from being NCs. I don't think they'll beat Georgia anyway, though. If Hawaii goes undefeated, they still don't have near the argument you guys did. Yeah, if they did that, Auburn would riot and they should. Hawai'i, though they won't admit it, will never play for a title. There is just no way the voters would let a school like that to play for it all. Like Boise State, everyone else might get a BSC game, but not to the big one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McWeagle 4 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 If Hawaii beats Georgia, then I will consider them more deserving of the title than anybody. Sure they had a weak schedule, and sure their fans seem to be god-awful. But if they face a team as tough as Georgia on a stage that big and win, then they've got my vote. Of course, that's mainly because, this year, there aren't any good candidates. Hawaii would have not been in the discussion in any previous year in the BCS era, or probably before. But you're right... they will have no shot at a BCS title this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BZ770 2 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Hawaii has 2 good coaches. Jerry Glanville and Jones. I thought their QB Brennan should have won the heisman this year. They beat some decent teams with 4th qtr comebacks. Yes I would push them for the NC. They should sue the NCAA for some kind of discrimination, because there is no way a WAC, MAC, Sunbelt,etc will ever be considered for a NC under the BCS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebdawg 5 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Hard to be named National Champion for being 1 - 0 and if Hawai'i wins that will be their real record, 1 - 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shire5k 19 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Hard to be named National Champion for being 1 - 0 and if Hawai'i wins that will be their real record, 1 - 0. I'll give em 2-0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
townhallsavoy 2 Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 Hard to be named National Champion for being 1 - 0 and if Hawai'i wins that will be their real record, 1 - 0. I'll give em 2-0. You're both being subjective. It's opinion. With recruiting, it's possible for Hawaii to recruit every five star athlete in the country, right? If they did, would they be allowed to compete for the NC then? What's so different about Hawaii and other teams? I understand their schedule is considered weaker when it comes to sports writers' opinions. However, if Auburn can turn two star prospects into future NFL draft picks, why can't Hawaii? And even if Hawaii ends "2-0" or "1-0", they still have two less losses than LSU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashandarei 0 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Hawaii has 2 good coaches. Jerry Glanville and Jones. I thought their QB Brennan should have won the heisman this year. They beat some decent teams with 4th qtr comebacks. Yes I would push them for the NC. They should sue the NCAA for some kind of discrimination, because there is no way a WAC, MAC, Sunbelt,etc will ever be considered for a NC under the BCS. I'm pretty sure Glanville left before the season started to coach Portland State, or some such place. I may be wrong, but I think that's correct. Not that it really matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shire5k 19 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Hard to be named National Champion for being 1 - 0 and if Hawai'i wins that will be their real record, 1 - 0. I'll give em 2-0. You're both being subjective. It's opinion. With recruiting, it's possible for Hawaii to recruit every five star athlete in the country, right? If they did, would they be allowed to compete for the NC then? What's so different about Hawaii and other teams? I understand their schedule is considered weaker when it comes to sports writers' opinions. However, if Auburn can turn two star prospects into future NFL draft picks, why can't Hawaii? And even if Hawaii ends "2-0" or "1-0", they still have two less losses than LSU. But that's what strength of schedule is about. Regardless of whether you have the best team in the history of football...if you play noone of consequence until your bowl game.....well it speaks for itself. I mean, nowadays, it's almost impossible to go undefeated as an SEC team. It's just how it is. Now, I wouldn't think it's fair for a team like Hawaii to play for the NC and a team in the SEC never to have that opportunity because the SEC is actually tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saniflush 0 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Any team that is Division I and runs the table deserves a shot at the title. If the reason is schedule then the National Communists Against Athletes need to have some say in scheduling attempting to even it out. If not then Hawaii needs to be moved down in classification. Hawaii not playing in a the faux NC game is a slap in the face to those players, coaches, and school in general. More so of a slap than we got in 2004. At least then there were other teams with identical records that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shire5k 19 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Any team that is Division I and runs the table deserves a shot at the title. If the reason is schedule then the National Communists Against Athletes need to have some say in scheduling attempting to even it out. If not then Hawaii needs to be moved down in classification. Hawaii not playing in a the faux NC game is a slap in the face to those players, coaches, and school in general. More so of a slap than we got in 2004. At least then there were other teams with identical records that year. Good point. All the more reason for a playoff system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashandarei 0 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Any team that is Division I and runs the table deserves a shot at the title. If the reason is schedule then the National Communists Against Athletes need to have some say in scheduling attempting to even it out. If not then Hawaii needs to be moved down in classification. Hawaii not playing in a the faux NC game is a slap in the face to those players, coaches, and school in general. More so of a slap than we got in 2004. At least then there were other teams with identical records that year. If that was the case, you'd see the weakest of weak schedules from all the schools. You'd never see a USC/Auburn, Texas/OSU, etc. It wouldn't be worth the trouble of possibly losing a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weglchamp 0 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 It's really that way now. Ohio State played everyone in the state of Ohio, Washington and a god awful big 11. They ended up in the MNC game. Why play anyone if you don't have to? It is much better to be undefeated, what happened with , USC and Oklahoma is rare. Usually there is only one or two undefeated teams, and in that case if you are from a big conference you're almost guaranteed a spot at the MNC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarTim 3,457 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 IF, and that is a BIG"if", Hawaii beats GA...Yes, they should be considered Champions...By someone. If not, then the RULES sould be stated before the season...You know "You can't be MNC unless you beat at least this many ranked teams...(or whatever the "rules" should be).... The BCS system stinks. WE, of all fan bases, should understand that fact all too well............... Having an undefeated season should mean something...in ANY "system"..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashandarei 0 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 Go undefeated at all is still great, but just doing it shouldn't mean that you play for a title if your schedule is weak. MSU got the West Virginia game back when WV sucked really bad. MSU never bought the game out, and got hosed. With so many of these games planned years in advance, it's hard to know how many ranked teams you will play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subterranean_jack 112 Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 I want to make two points here, so bear with me. 1) OF COURSE A PLAYOFF IS NECESSARY!!!! Is there any measurable difference between LSU and Oklahoma, or USC or Georgia? I could easily see any of these teams winning a playoff for the title. The crappy results of the BCS games are ample evidence that the current approach is way too flawed. Take all the inbred university presidents behind the woodshed and beat them with a stick until they relent. Okay, let's GO (insert flashback of John Belushi screaming this in Animal House here). 2) I am an Auburn fan first, but there are several teams which I enjoy watching, and Hawaii is one of those teams. I've been following this program since they beat Michigan about 15 years ago. June Jones is a good coach, and the Hawaii program has been steadily getting better and better. Hawaii had 7 players taken in the NFL draft last season (more than either Auburn or Alabama), so there is talent, maybe not depth, but the front-line players are good, particularly the offense. The difference this season is the defense is starting to come around. This team is probably the best Hawaii has ever fielded. I think they are as good as a 2nd tier SEC team-- Florida, Tennessee, Kentucky, or Arkansas. If Georgia isn't ready to play, yes, I can see Hawaii winning. But, do I think they will win? NO. I don't think they have the depth or speed on defense to beat a fully prepared and rested Georgia team. I do think they will give Georgia a good game, for three quarters. IF Hawaii does win, should they be considered deserving of a national title? NO. I think Hawaii has a lot to prove before they can be considered legit on a national level. Hawaii played two, yes, TWO I-AA teams this season. I consider those bought wins, so Hawaii and LSU both have 10 wins in my book. Had Hawaii won two more games against I-A teams, THEN MAYBE they might have a beef. But they didn't. So, shut up and get excited about playing in the Sugar Bowl (115 other teams would be thrilled to be there). Beat Georgia, and Hawaii will prove they are more deserving, just like Boise State did last season. I think Hawaii can attain a legit perrenial Top 25 status under June Jones. Every once in a while they might be a Top 10 team, when they have players like Colt Brennan hitting on all cylinders. I would be thrilled if Hawaii did beat Georgia, but, realistically, I just don't see it happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthLink02 8 Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 You all are giving us way too much credit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgufcm 4,107 Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 No way in hell. National titles are about what you deserve. In 2004, Auburn played more top competition than USC and OU combined and beat everyone they played. THAT is why we got the biggest snub in BCS history. This year? Hawaii has literally played one team that was ever ranked (they aren't ranked now), and they don't deserve a shot at the title. Period. Going undefeated is nice for the school. It gets them a big payday and a chance to have people watch them play for once. That's all they deserve. UGA is good, but they were the second best team in the SEC East over the course of the year. That's it. If Hawaii were to win that game, it would just mean they got up for the only big game on their schedule all year long. Nothing more. There were AT LEAST 5 SEC schools that would've run the table with that schedule (LSU, UGA, UT, UF, Auburn) and probably two more (Arkansas and Kentucky). Seriously, Boise State (best team on Hawaii's schedule... unless Washington, the worst team in the Pac 10, was the best team on the schedule, which is possible) against Arkansas... who ya got? I'm taking McFadden and the boys every time. That schedule is a complete joke. Hawaii gets to play in the Sugar Bowl. It's probably MORE than they deserve, but they certainly haven't earned anything more than that win, lose, or draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
townhallsavoy 2 Posted December 21, 2007 Author Share Posted December 21, 2007 No way in hell. National titles are about what you deserve. In 2004, Auburn played more top competition than USC and OU combined and beat everyone they played. THAT is why we got the biggest snub in BCS history. This year? Hawaii has literally played one team that was ever ranked (they aren't ranked now), and they don't deserve a shot at the title. Period. Going undefeated is nice for the school. It gets them a big payday and a chance to have people watch them play for once. That's all they deserve. UGA is good, but they were the second best team in the SEC East over the course of the year. That's it. If Hawaii were to win that game, it would just mean they got up for the only big game on their schedule all year long. Nothing more. There were AT LEAST 5 SEC schools that would've run the table with that schedule (LSU, UGA, UT, UF, Auburn) and probably two more (Arkansas and Kentucky). Seriously, Boise State (best team on Hawaii's schedule... unless Washington, the worst team in the Pac 10, was the best team on the schedule, which is possible) against Arkansas... who ya got? I'm taking McFadden and the boys every time. That schedule is a complete joke. Hawaii gets to play in the Sugar Bowl. It's probably MORE than they deserve, but they certainly haven't earned anything more than that win, lose, or draw. I do agree with you. BUT it's all our opinion, right? I mean, who can really say what Hawaii would do in the SEC? Who can truly say what LSU would do having to travel 3,000 miles to play an away game? That's the beef I have with the BCS system. It's still, no matter how it's spun, a matter of subjective opinion. LSU or Ohio St will be crowned as an editorial national champion. If there was a playoff, Hawaii would probably lose the first game. But at least they have a fair shot. I think Hawaii SHOULD get respected as a snubbed team if they beat Georgia. They ran the table with what they were given. They did what they had to do - the same way Auburn did what we had to do in 2004. It just so happened that the opinions of the voters liked USC and Oklahoma more. It just so happens that the opinions of you and I and the voters respect Auburn more than Hawaii, so we consider it a bigger snub. But to me, it's all opinion - nothing objective. Nothing definite. Hawaii might beat every team in the top ten if they had to play them. We'll never truly know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PChamp119 96 Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 on this thread We've had this discussion how many times? It's not going to make a difference at all. Do you consider Boise State MNC last year? God, quit talking about Hawaii like they matter. Their situation is not even in the same Universe as AU in 2004. No one ever will, because Auburn was the best team in the country that year from the toughest conference in the country. It only took the media two years to figure that out (Thanks Florida). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarTim 3,457 Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 pchump...if you don't like the title subject, don't read it. Got it? Class is now over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mowegl 4 Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 If they beat UGA then why not? They can call themselves national champs all they want for all I care. Its called a MNC for a reason. Its mythical. It has very little actual validity. The BCS champion is just like any other awarded champion in my book. Whoever wins LSU/OSU is BCS champ, but I dont see why any other organization couldnt award another NC to another team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vatz22au 142 Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 What ya think? A playoff with the similar BCS format still in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fmnstr 0 Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 pchump...if you don't like the title subject, don't read it. Got it? Class is now over. i sure would appreciate it if you two ladies would just make out and get it over with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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