New poll on McCain vs. Obama

[autiger4life 3]

Here is a new poll on who polls the best:

Obama 120%

McCain 120.5%

OH WAIT, THEY HAVEN'T EVEN STARTED THE GENERAL ELECTION YET. Sorry, I just think these initial polls are the dumbest things when we are so far away. One big slip up, one racist comment, or one damning picture, or anything and everything changes. Let's wait awhile before we start looking at these. JMO

[TitanTiger 20,499]

The only reason I thought it was notable is because I think most people would have expected Obama to be ahead by a significant margin and he wasn't.

[TexasTiger 12,961]

The only reason I thought it was notable is because I think most people would have expected Obama to be ahead by a significant margin and he wasn't.

I think Obama's climb is still uphill. McCain is better known, more established and largely liked-- except, strangely enough, by many on the Right who really seem to hate the guy. Republicans will be working hard from this point forward trying to define Obama. He'll need his big fundraising machine just to fight the attacks and smears. Should be an interesting election. The two likely nominees present a pretty good contrast, but both appeal to independents.

[Tiger Al 0]

Well, anybody who votes for either one of them is an idiot. Everybody knows that Rudy Giuliani was by far the best candidate running who nobody even bothered voting for.

[otterinbham 0]

The only reason I thought it was notable is because I think most people would have expected Obama to be ahead by a significant margin and he wasn't.

I think Obama's climb is still uphill. McCain is better known, more established and largely liked-- except, strangely enough, by many on the Right who really seem to hate the guy. Republicans will be working hard from this point forward trying to define Obama. He'll need his big fundraising machine just to fight the attacks and smears. Should be an interesting election. The two likely nominees present a pretty good contrast, but both appeal to independents.

I would agree with you on that. Not discounting your reasons for liking Obama, but I think a lot of people went to the polls voting for him because he is the Anti-Hillary. Any politician whom 55% of the electorate would NOT vote for under any circumstances, and Hillary earned a great deal of her unpopularity.

Once the Democratic race is over next Tuesday (I'm pretty certain that Obama gets Texas and Ohio) and Hillary is dispensed with for good, a entirely different dynamic takes center stage. Suddenly Obama will have to campaign for what he is rather than what he is not. The crucial question is how well he can separate himself from old-fashioned, Great Society, statist liberalism that continues to be regurgitated by the Democratic Party mossbacks. Ted Kennedy's endorsement means a great deal in the primaries. In the general election it means something completely different.

That being said, I think the Obama will have to look at past elections and ask himself a fundamental question: Am I going to emulate Hubert Humphrey, George McGovern, Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, Mike Dukakis, Al Gore, and John Kerry? Or am I going to emulate Bill Clinton and (to borrow from Great Britain) Tony Blair? The first set of Democrats paid homage to traditional liberalism and faced defeat at the polls--most of which were routs. Bill Clinton frog-marched the Democratic Party towards the political center and won. Tony Blair repudiated the old-guard Labourites and sought accommodation with business, not an adversarial relationship. Both were indisputable political successes when it came to winning elections.

This will prove crucial, because the Democratic Party seems to take for granted that the White House is theirs for the taking. Well, a lot has happened since November, 2006. A Democratic Congress has proven as fickle and incompetent as a Republican Congress. Public opinion of Congress has somehow managed to plunge below that of our President, who seems to begin every morning by shooting himself in the foot. You can almost hear the same, tired scripts being pulled from the Democratic National Committee's musty files. Universal Healthcare. Increased taxes for the rich. The ongoing expansion of the Federal government. As if some hack is saying, "Okay, this time the American people will buy this stuff."

Yet, really and truly, that's not what the American people really want. Right now, what the American people desire above all things is competence in their government. They want a government that won't rob the Treasury to pick up 100,000 more votes in Illinois. They want a government that can master its current set of responsibilities, rather than take on even more duties. They want a government that believes in a vigorous national defense, but doesn't just fling us into another endless adventure based on the flimsiest pretexts. What's more, they want a President who will look them in the eye, tell them The Awful Truth, and expect the citizenry itself to participate in the reformation of the country.

With all this in mind, McCain will prove a more formidable opponent than the Democrats think, unless some serious dirt is found about him. The fact that the paleoconservatives of the Republican Party don't like him is probably an asset at the polls. The man has served his country honorably, and his grandkids are doing the same thing--Not an inconsiderable fact when the President has to decide if the country is going to war. He has been a vigorous critic of the President on the drunken spending spree that has transpired since 2000. Mind you, I'm not writing a hagiography here. The man has a good number of flaws. But on things that really matter to a majority of Americans he has a pretty good track record. And, all other things being equal, when given the choice between a liberal and a conservative, the American people will vote conservative every day. And when given the choice between a liberal and a perceived moderate, there's no question which way the election will break.

So after Tuesday, the world waits to see which Obama runs for office. The outcome of the election will depend on it.

[Tigermike 3,039]

I have said for some time Obama was benefiting from a lot of votes by conservatives and Republicans and even a lot of dems who were voting against Hillary. But I don't think that would absolutely rule out an Obama/Clinton ticket. I think there will be a communal hug on the left and they will make their deals and go for all the marbles.

[autiger4life 3]

I personally can't see an Obama/Clinton ticket. She wouldn't do it and it would kill him. Now a Clinton/Obama ticket would help her, but the other way around doesn't work.

As far as the general election, I will vote for Obama, if he doesn't win I will vote for McCain and either way I would be just fine if McCain won. I would rather a moderate than an extreme liberal. However, I would prefer more than that someone that I feel like will be honest and transparent since it is really Congress that legislates. We'll see.

[otterinbham 0]

I have said for some time Obama was benefiting from a lot of votes by conservatives and Republicans and even a lot of dems who were voting against Hillary. But I don't think that would absolutely rule out an Obama/Clinton ticket. I think there will be a communal hug on the left and they will make their deals and go for all the marbles.

Maybe. But not likely. I think there's an implicit understanding of how thoroughly this woman is disliked in Flyover Land. I'm guessing that they'll pick a Southerner.

[jw 4 au 526]

Republicans will be working hard from this point forward trying to define Obama. He'll need his big fundraising machine just to fight the attacks and smears. Should be an interesting election. The two likely nominees present a pretty good contrast, but both appeal to independents.

Two comments here TT that I would like to hear your responses on. Not picking, just curious. And I apologize in advance if there are other threads on each issue.

What about the campaign finance agreement presented by Obama early on in the race? Do you think he will agree to this or not? Seems to me he may be damned if he does and damned if he doesn't, so the real question is which will hurt less.

Do you truely believe Obama and McCain appeal to indepenants equally? I know what his platform states (in general) but his history suggest otherwise. Whereas McCain can certainly be seen as more bipartsan than Obama, almost to a fault if you listen to conservatives.

[otterinbham 0]

Republicans will be working hard from this point forward trying to define Obama. He'll need his big fundraising machine just to fight the attacks and smears. Should be an interesting election. The two likely nominees present a pretty good contrast, but both appeal to independents.

Two comments here TT that I would like to hear your responses on. Not picking, just curious. And I apologize in advance if there are other threads on each issue.

What about the campaign finance agreement presented by Obama early on in the race? Do you think he will agree to this or not? Seems to me he may be damned if he does and damned if he doesn't, so the real question is which will hurt less.

Do you truely believe Obama and McCain appeal to indepenants equally? I know what his platform states (in general) but his history suggest otherwise. Whereas McCain can certainly be seen as more bipartsan than Obama, almost to a fault if you listen to conservatives.

I think it's a question of definition. McCain is somewhat of an independent, while Obama is more of an insurgent against the ossified structure imposed by the Clinton camp. Both stances have powerful emotional appeal at the moment, but which positioning has legs to it? Once Clinton is deposed, Obama might have served his purpose in the grand scheme of things, and his candidacy might lose a great deal of its power. At the same time, along the way, I worry that Obama has sworn fealty to the old way of doing things, something the will hobble him later in the year.

[DKW 86 7,431]

I personally can't see an Obama/Clinton ticket. She wouldn't WANT TO do it and it THEN SHE would kill him.

Fixed that for you.

The only way she gets in the White House now is to become the VP, win, and shoot Obama.

[arnaldoabru 11]

They will match Obama up with a moderate Democrat.They guy in Virginia(I believe US Senator) who is a war veteran is a good choice.Sam Nunn would be a good choice.

[OldNewby 27]

I have said for some time Obama was benefiting from a lot of votes by conservatives and Republicans and even a lot of dems who were voting against Hillary. But I don't think that would absolutely rule out an Obama/Clinton ticket. I think there will be a communal hug on the left and they will make their deals and go for all the marbles.

Maybe. But not likely. I think there's an implicit understanding of how thoroughly this woman is disliked in Flyover Land. I'm guessing that they'll pick a Southerner.

Don't forget, Hillary's from Arkansas.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

You have an absurd definition of "most",

No, I think given the crazy amount of glowing coverage Obama has received and the rather lukewarm feelings many conservatives have for McCain, it's a reasonable thing to think that most people would have expected a significant Obama lead.

Now, we could discuss the merits of why a person might come to the conclusion I did...

Given the fact that McCain has been able to concentrate on issues and Obama has been obsessed with Hillary AND the fact that McCain had a lead over the Democrats very EARLY in the process, your opinion probably does not fit the MOST litmus test.

Please do not pretend that you are like us.

Actually, given that of the wide variety of polls over the last week or two, Obama has the lead in 5 of them to McCain's 3 and that Obama's average lead is about 7.5 points and McCain's is a little over 2.5 pts (within the margin of error), I'd say it pretty much is the definition of MOST.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/20..._obama-225.html

And if you go further back, the picture is even more in favor of Obama over McCain:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/20...-225.html#polls

Since the beginning of the year, Obama leads in 17 polls, McCain leads in 7 and there was one tie. Obama's average margin was 5.5 while McCain's was 2.7.

It gets even worse before then. So I think I'm plenty safe in saying most people would expect Obama to be leading McCain right now. Call it an educated guess.

[DKW 86 7,431]

Physicians for Natl Healthcare argue for Single Payer

28 Nations with Single Payer NHC

Wikipedia and single payer systems.

Single-payer health care is an American term describing the payment for doctors, hospitals and other providers for health care from a single fund. The Canadian health care system, the British National Health Service, Australia's Medicare, and Medicare in the U.S. for the elderly and disabled are single-payer systems.

Strawman my rear end.