Matt Stafford debate revisited

[mcgufcm 4,107]

Earlier, SLink and I (and others) somehow ended up talking about whether Matt Stafford would go pro or not after this season. I said, emphatically, that the only thing keeping him in college would be major injury. Other than that, he's the first QB off the board in next year's draft. Other folks thought he had more work to do, etc.

I just wanted to come back to this topic because this is yet another reason I feel like he's gone (beside the fact that he appears to me BY FAR the most NFL ready QB in the country):

The 2009 NFL quarterback prospects

Curtis Painter, Hunter Cantwell, Cullen Harper, Todd Boeckman, Chase Daniel, Chase Holbrook, Graham Harrell, Rudy Carpenter. Solid college passer all, but that sound you'll hear is a big collective yawn coming from the NFL scouts desperate to restock their league with quarterbacks who can play. If Tim Tebow and Matthew Stafford choose to return for their senior seasons, 2009 could be one of the ugliest quarterback drafts in a long, long time.

That's from cfn.com (http://cfn.scout.com/2/735368.html). Look at that list! If you're an NFL team, who are you taking ahead of Stafford?? One thing we know, even if the QBs in a given year are bad, one or two will still get picked up in the top 5-10 picks (see: Alex Smith). So if you're Matt Stafford, you have to pull a Leinart (who dropped from the Number One pick to the Twelve, I think, and didn't win the national title as a senior) to come back to college. NO WAY.

UGA fans: soak it up. Your boy is gone after this year. Off that list, you can ignore Daniel (size), Boeckman and Cantwell (talent), and Harrell and Holbrook (system) as first round QBs right now. So UGA fans, who among you think Painter, Harper, or Carpenter is really a better pro prospect than Matt Stafford no matter how raw he might be. Stafford is gone after this season (Tebow might be as well if it makes you feel better, but Stafford is the better pro prospect of the two without question).

[SouthLink02 8]

Ya, someone posted that on the UGA board when it came out. Shocking how few good QB's there will be next year.

I still think he stays. Here are my reasons

1) I am a UGA fan

2) I don't think he breaks out statistically in 2008. I think he continues improving but he still lacks any eye-dropping stats like a Tebow thus I doubt we see anyone absolutely drooling over him and forcing themselves to have to draft him

3) This may continue being a part of #2 but he is still quite raw. He still gun-slings it at times AND he still throws it sidewarms on runs. He is getting MUCH BETTER mind you but he still does it. I expect his INT's to be a little high still ESPECIALLY with the schedule next year

4) Moreno/King will be a big, big part of the offense and I expect them to be a bulk of the red zone results next year. Rumors have 1-2 True Freshman RB's also getting carries

5) Don't be surprised to see RS Freshman Logan Gray get some snaps at QB

With that said, I think the chances of him leaving went from 80-20 to 60-40 after reading that article

[mcgufcm 4,107]

My response to 2/3 is that I don't think he has to have a break out season. He's already shown he's got the arm (not only can he put it on a rope and easily throw the deep out, he's one of the better deep ball throwers I've seen in recent years). His release is MUCH quicker than Tebow's. He's got plenty of athleticism for the NFL. He's got the size as well. Plus he runs a much more conventional, pro-style offense, which is a big plus on draft day (how many GMs are going to trip on themselves to draft the next Urban Meyer, spread-system QB after the disaster that is Alex Smith?).

If his numbers are similar to last year (and they will be), he's got all the stats and field time he needs to be the leader of that pack.

If I were a UGA fan, I'd take down the Stafford highlights, start pimping Moreno/King constantly, and complain about every little flaw in Stafford's game just in case and NFL GM happened to stubble upon my message board or listen to my sports talk show... I feel like that's about the only chance you have of getting the guy back.

[SouthLink02 8]

If I were a UGA fan, I'd take down the Stafford highlights, start pimping Moreno/King constantly, and complain about every little flaw in Stafford's game just in case and NFL GM happened to stubble upon my message board or listen to my sports talk show... I feel like that's about the only chance you have of getting the guy back.

I think the chances of him returning are better than that...much better in fact....but I will do my best

One quick thing, I have to chuckle at your downfield comments....not laughing at you but laughing in that UGA fans consistently gripe about his downfield ability. Some claim he fludders it too much hence the bad consistency on his downfield passes. Of course, people remember his Bama, UF, and AU passes but he really does either throw a good one or really bad one depending on the situation. I will take the chance though as occasionally it works out

[AUslug 1]

Stafford is one of the top 15 qbs right now in college, and Tebow is probably numero uno. I think they are both staying for their senior seasons, unless either one them think they will get TOP dollar in the draft. Looking at the qb draft class for next season, the sleeper in that group is Cullen Harper, he is a gamer even if he didn't do all that hot in the Peach Bowl. The thing to me about Stafford is he wasn't the focal point of the offense the last two years, maybe this upcoming season he might be. If Brodie Croyle can be drafted then Stafford won't have to sweat it out on draft day, be it 2009 or 2010.

[mcgufcm 4,107]

Bottom line, I don't see how Matt Stafford is not the unquestioned number one pro prospect at QB right now. That doesn't make him the best QB in college football. I'm talking game to the pros... he's gotta be number one. Given that, I don't see how he turns down the money that is tied to that position (guaranteed top 5 pick if you're the number one QB).

[jw 4 au 526]

Bottom line, I don't see how Matt Stafford is not the unquestioned number one pro prospect at QB right now. That doesn't make him the best QB in college football. I'm talking game to the pros... he's gotta be number one. Given that, I don't see how he turns down the money that is tied to that position (guaranteed top 5 pick if you're the number one QB).

You have him ranked above Tebow?

This may be considered a stupid question, but do you think Stafford at this stage is a better QB than Greene was at this same stage? I am not a UGA fan, so I don't follow thier stats that closely, but wasn't Greene much more accomplished than Stafford? I know Staffords' build is better, but play?

[SouthLink02 8]

Bottom line, I don't see how Matt Stafford is not the unquestioned number one pro prospect at QB right now. That doesn't make him the best QB in college football. I'm talking game to the pros... he's gotta be number one. Given that, I don't see how he turns down the money that is tied to that position (guaranteed top 5 pick if you're the number one QB).

You have him ranked above Tebow?

This may be considered a stupid question, but do you think Stafford at this stage is a better QB than Greene was at this same stage? I am not a UGA fan, so I don't follow thier stats that closely, but wasn't Greene much more accomplished than Stafford? I know Staffords' build is better, but play?

Greene was a very good QB who never became great. He declined in 2003 and averaged out in 2004

With that said, he still won a LOT in those two years (including the East in 2003) but I think it had more to do with his surroundings on D and the fact that Greene was very smart. He didn't make huge, HUGE mistakes

That caused him to do very well with what he had

I think Stafford could be better than Greene his 3rd-4th years but I would give Greene the better 1st/2nd year....even though Greene was a RS freshman

[GaCoach 0]

Bottom line, I don't see how Matt Stafford is not the unquestioned number one pro prospect at QB right now. That doesn't make him the best QB in college football. I'm talking game to the pros... he's gotta be number one. Given that, I don't see how he turns down the money that is tied to that position (guaranteed top 5 pick if you're the number one QB).

You have him ranked above Tebow?

This may be considered a stupid question, but do you think Stafford at this stage is a better QB than Greene was at this same stage? I am not a UGA fan, so I don't follow thier stats that closely, but wasn't Greene much more accomplished than Stafford? I know Staffords' build is better, but play?

Greene was a very good QB who never became great. He declined in 2003 and averaged out in 2004

With that said, he still won a LOT in those two years (including the East in 2003) but I think it had more to do with his surroundings on D and the fact that Greene was very smart. He didn't make huge, HUGE mistakes

That caused him to do very well with what he had

I think Stafford could be better than Greene his 3rd-4th years but I would give Greene the better 1st/2nd year....even though Greene was a RS freshman

As talented as Tebow is, he's is a system QB, IMO. Stafford should be better than Tebow at the next level.

Also, IMO, athletic ability and arm strength by far goes to Stafford if your comparing him to David Greene. That's the reason Greene hasn't been a big hit in the NFL. His arm strength was a liability. It's hard to argue with the fact that Greene was one of, if not the winningest QB is SEC history. I also think it had a lot to do with Georgia's defense. The thing that I believe made Greene a good college QB is his 'play action pass' fakes were exceptional.

[WAR EAGLE!!! 0]

Bottom line, I don't see how Matt Stafford is not the unquestioned number one pro prospect at QB right now. That doesn't make him the best QB in college football. I'm talking game to the pros... he's gotta be number one. Given that, I don't see how he turns down the money that is tied to that position (guaranteed top 5 pick if you're the number one QB).

You have him ranked above Tebow?

This may be considered a stupid question, but do you think Stafford at this stage is a better QB than Greene was at this same stage? I am not a UGA fan, so I don't follow thier stats that closely, but wasn't Greene much more accomplished than Stafford? I know Staffords' build is better, but play?

Greene was a very good QB who never became great. He declined in 2003 and averaged out in 2004

With that said, he still won a LOT in those two years (including the East in 2003) but I think it had more to do with his surroundings on D and the fact that Greene was very smart. He didn't make huge, HUGE mistakes

That caused him to do very well with what he had

I think Stafford could be better than Greene his 3rd-4th years but I would give Greene the better 1st/2nd year....even though Greene was a RS freshman

As talented as Tebow is, he's is a system QB, IMO. Stafford should be better than Tebow at the next level.

I don't understand why people knock Tebow and say he is a system QB. He was one of THE BEST QB's I have ever seen play HS ball, and now he is doing it at the college level. His STATS may be the result of the system, but his athlitisism and ability have nothing to do with the system he runs. That guy is a stud. He has got a good head on his shoulders, he is physically and mentally tough, and he is a freak of an athlete. I think he will do jst as well in the pros as he has done in both HS and college...

[autiger4life 3]

I don't understand why people knock Tebow and say he is a system QB. He was one of THE BEST QB's I have ever seen play HS ball, and now he is doing it at the college level. His STATS may be the result of the system, but his athlitisism and ability have nothing to do with the system he runs. That guy is a stud. He has got a good head on his shoulders, he is physically and mentally tough, and he is a freak of an athlete. I think he will do jst as well in the pros as he has done in both HS and college...

Completely agree. I always hear people say, especially fans that all of his touchdowns were five yard runs or so, well who got them to the five yard line? If you watch his highlights you might think he is a system QB, if you follow him, you know he is a QB who can do it all.

[GaCoach 0]

Guys, I don't disagree w/ the fact that Tebow is a freak of an athlete and a tough kid, but I don't buy into the hype. Sure he's physically tough, but he couldn't finish a season w/o injury carrying the ball 20 time a game. This kid is a run first QB. One of the biggest reason AU beat FL last year was due to the fact that the defense stopped Tebow running the ball. Now he WILL be drafted and he may even develop into a NFL QB, I've been wrong before, but I think its a stretch.

[sogaaufan 27]

The thing about Tebow that makes him different from other "running" QBs is that he is a bruiser. If you look at Vick and most other running QBs they are make you miss kind of players. Tebow runs over people. I'm not denying that he is a GREAT college player, but without a major overhaul in his style of play he won't last long in the league trying to run over NFL linebackers. Heck, he was banged up by the end of the year in his first season as a starter in college. He was totally ineffective due to injury against UGA. Stretch that out into a 16 game regular season against premier defensive talent (that can knock your jock in the dirt) and he may find the NFL tough going.

[SouthLink02 8]

I don't know if I would say he was totally ineffective against us

He had 2 rushing TD's & went 14-22 for 230+ and another TD through the air

He was never a running thread outside of the 1-2 yard line though which helped

[GaCoach 0]

The thing about Tebow that makes him different from other "running" QBs is that he is a bruiser. If you look at Vick and most other running QBs they are make you miss kind of players. Tebow runs over people. I'm not denying that he is a GREAT college player, but without a major overhaul in his style of play he won't last long in the league trying to run over NFL linebackers. Heck, he was banged up by the end of the year in his first season as a starter in college. He was totally ineffective due to injury against UGA. Stretch that out into a 16 game regular season against premier defensive talent (that can knock your jock in the dirt) and he may find the NFL tough going.

Exactly!

And to get back on what the original topic, concerning Stafford leaving for the NFL and his readiness, if I'm an NFL GM and I'm going to spend millions on a QB, I would take Stafford over the others that will be in next years class, especially Tebow.

[WAR EAGLE!!! 0]

Stafford and Tebow are just two completely different players. I don't think Tebow gets enough credit for his passing ability. He is a mobile QB that can throw on the run.

And as far as him wearing down and being beat up...THAT is a system stat. Tebow is NOT going to have to run the ball 20 times in a pro style offense. It just isn't going to happen.

[GaCoach 0]

Stafford and Tebow are just two completely different players. I don't think Tebow gets enough credit for his passing ability. He is a mobile QB that can throw on the run.

And as far as him wearing down and being beat up...THAT is a system stat. Tebow is NOT going to have to run the ball 20 times in a pro style offense. It just isn't going to happen.

I believe Tebow is a FB that can throw and if you take away the best aspect of his game, power running, he's an average QB. Tebow is not going to win a lot of games solely on his arm. So, you're right, he's not going to be running the ball 20 times a game in a pro style offense. Bringing me back to what I said about him earlier, he's a system QB. And by the way, I think he's very good at running Meyer's system.

[mcgufcm 4,107]

I don't discount Tebow. Superman is Superman. I actually think teams will shy away because of guys like Culpepper. Look NFL running backs prove every year that you only have so many hits you can take and only so much mileage you can put on your tires. I bet more than a few NFL teams will shy away from Tebow because he's already started his odometer running.

The other concern is: can he stop it? A LOT of his running is by choice. He runs the read option and knows that HE is the best option. So he keeps it. He, rightly, trusts himself to get the job done, but that's also a sign of how he plays the game. He thinks he can make the throw, run the guy over, be the man, all the time. That confidence coupled with his ability is the reason he's special. It's also the reason he more likely to beat his body up and be out of the league in 3-4 years. When a guy has played the game the way Tebow has (relying on his arm and his feet and his toughness every play) for so long... I'm just not sure he can turn it off.

[weagl1 1,786]

Both are great pro prospects, but I think a pro scout would take Stafford over Tebow because he has the better arm. Tebow is not going to run up the middle in the pros and stay healthy. If Stafford comes out he will likely be the #1 pick in the entire draft. Tebow is the better college QB and will likely win the Heisman again he stays healthy. He might even be the first to do it three times if he stays for his Senior season. But Stafford is prototypical pro QB. They are already drooling.

[subterranean_jack 112]

I watched Alex Smith in college, and I thought he was player of the year his junior year. Leading a MWC team to the BCS (and winning) was a huge feat. Yes, Urban Meyer had something to do with it too.

Vincent Young led Texas to a national title.

Both were multi-talented QBs who were great college QBs. However, look at how they have fared in the NFL. Both of them are a couple years from being out of the league (maybe sooner).

Tebow is more talented than either of them, but he is a similar type of QB. He could win the Heisman 3 times. That will be his legacy, not Super Bowl wins.

Stafford is not going to win a national title. He's probably not going to even play in an SEC title game. But, he has the best pro potential for any junior/senior QB in college football. He didn't have a redshirt year to prepare physically, mentally, or to work with the first team offense in spring or fall his first year. His TEs and WRs leave a lot to be desired (some improvement last season over 06, but still not comparable to the WR talent at Florida).

I think Stafford has shown enough in big wins over Auburn, Florida, and Hawaii. Barring injury, he will further impress in 08 and be the first QB taken in the draft in 09. Unless Tebow runs a lot less and works on improving his throwing, I can't see him coming out early or being drafted higher than late first round. Unless June Jones or Rich Rodriguez or Urban Meyer try to implement the spread in the NFL, I just can't see Tebow remotely approaching his success in h.s. and college in the NFL. Hell, the way he has been playing, he is probably going to miss most of his junior or senior season with an injury.

[autiger4life 3]

The thing about Tebow that makes him different from other "running" QBs is that he is a bruiser. If you look at Vick and most other running QBs they are make you miss kind of players. Tebow runs over people. I'm not denying that he is a GREAT college player, but without a major overhaul in his style of play he won't last long in the league trying to run over NFL linebackers. Heck, he was banged up by the end of the year in his first season as a starter in college. He was totally ineffective due to injury against UGA. Stretch that out into a 16 game regular season against premier defensive talent (that can knock your jock in the dirt) and he may find the NFL tough going.

I think this is exactly wrong.

All NFL people that I have heard said they see Tebow as a QB or a FB. If they think he will be a FB then that means that they do think he would be able to go one on one with NFL linebacks. To say that a player in college who does well by running over guys can't do it in the next league is completely off base when you see running backs with that style make the jump all the time. Tebow is a QB in a FB's body. Unline Vince Young or Mike Vick, Tebow won't run for 20 yards in the NFL, he will be a throw the ball under 15 yards and gain three on the ground. If an NFL team could find a QB who can throw well, not great, but well and who can pick up three yards every time he runs the ball, they would be loving it.

[SouthLink02 8]

I think most of you all have more trust in Stafford than I do

[sogaaufan 27]

I think most of you all have more trust in Stafford than I do

Have you forgotten what we have had to watch him do to us the last two years?

[sogaaufan 27]

The thing about Tebow that makes him different from other "running" QBs is that he is a bruiser. If you look at Vick and most other running QBs they are make you miss kind of players. Tebow runs over people. I'm not denying that he is a GREAT college player, but without a major overhaul in his style of play he won't last long in the league trying to run over NFL linebackers. Heck, he was banged up by the end of the year in his first season as a starter in college. He was totally ineffective due to injury against UGA. Stretch that out into a 16 game regular season against premier defensive talent (that can knock your jock in the dirt) and he may find the NFL tough going.

I think this is exactly wrong.

All NFL people that I have heard said they see Tebow as a QB or a FB. If they think he will be a FB then that means that they do think he would be able to go one on one with NFL linebacks. To say that a player in college who does well by running over guys can't do it in the next league is completely off base when you see running backs with that style make the jump all the time. Tebow is a QB in a FB's body. Unline Vince Young or Mike Vick, Tebow won't run for 20 yards in the NFL, he will be a throw the ball under 15 yards and gain three on the ground. If an NFL team could find a QB who can throw well, not great, but well and who can pick up three yards every time he runs the ball, they would be loving it.

The operative word here is QB OR a FB. Not both, which is what he is now (figuratively speaking).

[tgr4lfe 220]

Stafford and Tebow are just two completely different players. I don't think Tebow gets enough credit for his passing ability. He is a mobile QB that can throw on the run.

And as far as him wearing down and being beat up...THAT is a system stat. Tebow is NOT going to have to run the ball 20 times in a pro style offense. It just isn't going to happen.

Also, keep in mind that Tebow had to run the ball last year so much b/c UF had absolutley NO RB. This year could be a lot different with what they recruited. It will make their O into a bigger threat b/c of extra runner in the game and not having to always go to Tebow gain yards on the ground.