Who didn't see this one coming?

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Many experts now view pedophilia as a sexual orientation.

We're slowing moving from the "what could it hurt" phase to "how were we supposed to know?"

[Weegle777 78]

And I see the pedophile that gets near my children with his or her head cut off with a dull blade and its body hanging from a tree. Just typical of the moral decline of this country. And it will only get worse. Pretty soon, when homosexual government unions are legalized, it will set the stage for these sickos to push for the unions involving children.

But, haven't some of us here already said that this would happen? Thought so.

[AUMed 0]

How about instead of legalizing same-sex marriages we just end all government involvement in marriage and leave it up to religious institutions. That way every has the same rights, none. AND we don't enter into some imaginary "slippery-slope."

My favorite part of this whole discussion is how closely it mirrors the discussions in 1967 regarding interracial marriage.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

And I see the pedophile that gets near my children with his or her head cut off with a dull blade and its body hanging from a tree. Just typical of the moral decline of this country. And it will only get worse. Pretty soon, when homosexual government unions are legalized, it will set the stage for these sickos to push for the unions involving children.

But, haven't some of us here already said that this would happen? Thought so.

Are you suggesting homosexuality is a "gateway" sexual orientation?

[AUGradinTX 0]

And I see the pedophile that gets near my children with his or her head cut off with a dull blade and its body hanging from a tree. Just typical of the moral decline of this country. And it will only get worse. Pretty soon, when homosexual government unions are legalized, it will set the stage for these sickos to push for the unions involving children.

But, haven't some of us here already said that this would happen? Thought so.

Are you suggesting homosexuality is a "gateway" sexual orientation?

What? That isn't what I took from his post at all...

[TitanTiger 20,472]

How about instead of legalizing same-sex marriages we just end all government involvement in marriage and leave it up to religious institutions. That way every has the same rights, none. AND we don't enter into some imaginary "slippery-slope."

My favorite part of this whole discussion is how closely it mirrors the discussions in 1967 regarding interracial marriage.

Because that creates a whole host of other issues. Government recognizes marriage for a myriad of legal reasons that have nothing to do with who loves whom from classifying households for tax purposes, to inheritance rights, to child custody, to issues regarding testimony in court, to settling property disputes when a marriage ends in divorce and so on. It's just not that simple.

And your last line is a red herring. It's a line designed to shut down discussion, not foster it. Simply cry "racism" and everyone cringes. Probably should be added to Godwin's Law regarding the invoking of "Nazi!" in internet discussions.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

And I see the pedophile that gets near my children with his or her head cut off with a dull blade and its body hanging from a tree. Just typical of the moral decline of this country. And it will only get worse. Pretty soon, when homosexual government unions are legalized, it will set the stage for these sickos to push for the unions involving children.

But, haven't some of us here already said that this would happen? Thought so.

Are you suggesting homosexuality is a "gateway" sexual orientation?

What? That isn't what I took from his post at all...

I didn't either. I'm just pushing Weegs buttons because I think he is playing the irrational fear card.

[Weegle777 78]

And I see the pedophile that gets near my children with his or her head cut off with a dull blade and its body hanging from a tree. Just typical of the moral decline of this country. And it will only get worse. Pretty soon, when homosexual government unions are legalized, it will set the stage for these sickos to push for the unions involving children.

But, haven't some of us here already said that this would happen? Thought so.

Are you suggesting homosexuality is a "gateway" sexual orientation?

Not what I said at all. But if legislation is passed saying that it is now legalized, it very well could lead to other behaviors being classified as "normal".

[80Tiger 899]

How about instead of legalizing same-sex marriages we just end all government involvement in marriage and leave it up to religious institutions. That way every has the same rights, none. AND we don't enter into some imaginary "slippery-slope."

My favorite part of this whole discussion is how closely it mirrors the discussions in 1967 regarding interracial marriage.

Because that creates a whole host of other issues. Government recognizes marriage for a myriad of legal reasons that have nothing to do with who loves whom from classifying households for tax purposes, to inheritance rights, to child custody, to issues regarding testimony in court, to settling property disputes when a marriage ends in divorce and so on. It's just not that simple.

And your last line is a red herring. It's a line designed to shut down discussion, not foster it. Simply cry "racism" and everyone cringes. Probably should be added to Godwin's Law regarding the invoking of "Nazi!" in internet discussions.

TT is correct here and it can be simplified with one word, money. SS benefits, insurance benefits, etc.

[Weegle777 78]

And I see the pedophile that gets near my children with his or her head cut off with a dull blade and its body hanging from a tree. Just typical of the moral decline of this country. And it will only get worse. Pretty soon, when homosexual government unions are legalized, it will set the stage for these sickos to push for the unions involving children.

But, haven't some of us here already said that this would happen? Thought so.

Are you suggesting homosexuality is a "gateway" sexual orientation?

What? That isn't what I took from his post at all...

I didn't either. I'm just pushing Weegs buttons because I think he is playing the irrational fear card.

Irrational fear? That's exactly what most of you said in a thread a few months ago when some of us said that soon, pedophilia would be an accepted relationship alternative. Looks like we were correct. Maybe you all will listen to reason one day and be able to see the writing on the wall instead of blindly ignoring the signs.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

And I see the pedophile that gets near my children with his or her head cut off with a dull blade and its body hanging from a tree. Just typical of the moral decline of this country. And it will only get worse. Pretty soon, when homosexual government unions are legalized, it will set the stage for these sickos to push for the unions involving children.

But, haven't some of us here already said that this would happen? Thought so.

Are you suggesting homosexuality is a "gateway" sexual orientation?

Not what I said at all. But if legislation is passed saying that it is now legalized, it very well could lead to other behaviors being classified as "normal".

I don't see that as valid logic. There is a huge difference between behavior that is viewed as deviating from sexual norms for two adults and behavior that involves adults and children. It is a drastic difference.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

And I see the pedophile that gets near my children with his or her head cut off with a dull blade and its body hanging from a tree. Just typical of the moral decline of this country. And it will only get worse. Pretty soon, when homosexual government unions are legalized, it will set the stage for these sickos to push for the unions involving children.

But, haven't some of us here already said that this would happen? Thought so.

Are you suggesting homosexuality is a "gateway" sexual orientation?

What? That isn't what I took from his post at all...

I didn't either. I'm just pushing Weegs buttons because I think he is playing the irrational fear card.

Irrational fear? That's exactly what most of you said in a thread a few months ago when some of us said that soon, pedophilia would be an accepted relationship alternative. Looks like we were correct. Maybe you all will listen to reason one day and be able to see the writing on the wall instead of blindly ignoring the signs.

Weegs, don't you see the difference in trying to explain something vs. accepting it? I didn't see anyone advocating pedophelia. If you want to fix a problem, it is usually better to understand it than to simply "make it go away". I still don't see words that indicate anyone advocating or accepting pedophelia.

[AUDub 11,147]

Irrational fear? That's exactly what most of you said in a thread a few months ago when some of us said that soon, pedophilia would be an accepted relationship alternative. Looks like we were correct. Maybe you all will listen to reason one day and be able to see the writing on the wall instead of blindly ignoring the signs.

Nice strawman you have there. Nobody is proposing pedophilia is acceptable.

[jj3jordan 2,051]

And I see the pedophile that gets near my children with his or her head cut off with a dull blade and its body hanging from a tree. Just typical of the moral decline of this country. And it will only get worse. Pretty soon, when homosexual government unions are legalized, it will set the stage for these sickos to push for the unions involving children.

But, haven't some of us here already said that this would happen? Thought so.

Are you suggesting homosexuality is a "gateway" sexual orientation?

What? That isn't what I took from his post at all...

I didn't either. I'm just pushing Weegs buttons because I think he is playing the irrational fear card.

Irrational fear? That's exactly what most of you said in a thread a few months ago when some of us said that soon, pedophilia would be an accepted relationship alternative. Looks like we were correct. Maybe you all will listen to reason one day and be able to see the writing on the wall instead of blindly ignoring the signs.

Weegs, don't you see the difference in trying to explain something vs. accepting it? I didn't see anyone advocating pedophelia. If you want to fix a problem, it is usually better to understand it than to simply "make it go away". I still don't see words that indicate anyone advocating or accepting pedophelia.

NAMBLA is advocating for acceptance. People like you apparently cannot see what the next predictable step is so you think it is not there. Back in the day there were also people saying that homosexuality would never be accepted, and no one was pushing for it. But they were pushing it, and now the left has fully accepted it. The right has not and are vilified for holding on to Biblical Christian values, the kind our country was founded on. The more perverts are made out to be normal, society declines. That is the goal of the left. Destroy values, Christians (but not muslims), families, churches, and prayer that anyone might hear.

[AUDub 11,147]

NAMBLA is advocating for acceptance. People like you apparently cannot see what the next predictable step is so you think it is not there. Back in the day there were also people saying that homosexuality would never be accepted, and no one was pushing for it. But they were pushing it, and now the left has fully accepted it. The right has not and are vilified for holding on to Biblical Christian values, the kind our country was founded on. The more perverts are made out to be normal, society declines. That is the goal of the left. Destroy values, Christians (but not muslims), families, churches, and prayer that anyone might hear.

The APA is not NAMBLA. Seeking to quantify something and condoning it are two completely different things. The more we understand it, the better we can prevent it.

[Weegle777 78]

And I see the pedophile that gets near my children with his or her head cut off with a dull blade and its body hanging from a tree. Just typical of the moral decline of this country. And it will only get worse. Pretty soon, when homosexual government unions are legalized, it will set the stage for these sickos to push for the unions involving children.

But, haven't some of us here already said that this would happen? Thought so.

Are you suggesting homosexuality is a "gateway" sexual orientation?

Not what I said at all. But if legislation is passed saying that it is now legalized, it very well could lead to other behaviors being classified as "normal".

I don't see that as valid logic. There is a huge difference between behavior that is viewed as deviating from sexual norms for two adults and behavior that involves adults and children. It is a drastic difference.

You and I know that and believe that, but when it starts to hit the civil rights arena, it might be viewed differently.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

And I see the pedophile that gets near my children with his or her head cut off with a dull blade and its body hanging from a tree. Just typical of the moral decline of this country. And it will only get worse. Pretty soon, when homosexual government unions are legalized, it will set the stage for these sickos to push for the unions involving children.

But, haven't some of us here already said that this would happen? Thought so.

Are you suggesting homosexuality is a "gateway" sexual orientation?

What? That isn't what I took from his post at all...

I didn't either. I'm just pushing Weegs buttons because I think he is playing the irrational fear card.

Irrational fear? That's exactly what most of you said in a thread a few months ago when some of us said that soon, pedophilia would be an accepted relationship alternative. Looks like we were correct. Maybe you all will listen to reason one day and be able to see the writing on the wall instead of blindly ignoring the signs.

Weegs, don't you see the difference in trying to explain something vs. accepting it? I didn't see anyone advocating pedophelia. If you want to fix a problem, it is usually better to understand it than to simply "make it go away". I still don't see words that indicate anyone advocating or accepting pedophelia.

NAMBLA is advocating for acceptance. People like you apparently cannot see what the next predictable step is so you think it is not there. Back in the day there were also people saying that homosexuality would never be accepted, and no one was pushing for it. But they were pushing it, and now the left has fully accepted it. The right has not and are vilified for holding on to Biblical Christian values, the kind our country was founded on. The more perverts are made out to be normal, society declines. That is the goal of the left. Destroy values, Christians (but not muslims), families, churches, and prayer that anyone might hear.

NAMBLA? That is fear mongering. People are being arrested everyday for not only committing pedophelia, but also for possessing depictions. You are not a a crusade. You just think you are. Please, do not try to equate the right with Biblical principles. The principles of Christ do not need a supporting political movement. Besides, do you comprehend how many of these people have lurked in the Church? Finally, do you really believe that stopping same sex marriage will keep our children safe from pedophiles? I believe our hope is to start living a life that truly follows the principles of Christ and stop being used by a political movement that merely pretends to.

[Weegle777 78]

And I see the pedophile that gets near my children with his or her head cut off with a dull blade and its body hanging from a tree. Just typical of the moral decline of this country. And it will only get worse. Pretty soon, when homosexual government unions are legalized, it will set the stage for these sickos to push for the unions involving children.

But, haven't some of us here already said that this would happen? Thought so.

Are you suggesting homosexuality is a "gateway" sexual orientation?

What? That isn't what I took from his post at all...

I didn't either. I'm just pushing Weegs buttons because I think he is playing the irrational fear card.

Irrational fear? That's exactly what most of you said in a thread a few months ago when some of us said that soon, pedophilia would be an accepted relationship alternative. Looks like we were correct. Maybe you all will listen to reason one day and be able to see the writing on the wall instead of blindly ignoring the signs.

Weegs, don't you see the difference in trying to explain something vs. accepting it? I didn't see anyone advocating pedophelia. If you want to fix a problem, it is usually better to understand it than to simply "make it go away". I still don't see words that indicate anyone advocating or accepting pedophelia.

I never said that any of you accepted or advocated for it. I simply said that writing it off as irrational fear is being ignorant of what you see. I know that none of you guys would advocate for pedophilia. We may disagree, but I don't think you guys are idiots.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

NAMBLA is advocating for acceptance. People like you apparently cannot see what the next predictable step is so you think it is not there. Back in the day there were also people saying that homosexuality would never be accepted, and no one was pushing for it. But they were pushing it, and now the left has fully accepted it. The right has not and are vilified for holding on to Biblical Christian values, the kind our country was founded on. The more perverts are made out to be normal, society declines. That is the goal of the left. Destroy values, Christians (but not muslims), families, churches, and prayer that anyone might hear.

The APA is not NAMBLA. Seeking to quantify something and condoning it are two completely different things. The more we understand it, the better we can prevent it.

The changes in the APA guidelines for how to handle homosexuality (it's merely an orientation, not a disorder) were a key step in the acceptance of it as normal and even "good" or at least "benign." And I think language matters here. To use the words "sexual orientation" to describe it places it in the same category as heterosexuality and homosexuality. We have laws and various societal rules in place regarding discrimination based on sexual orientation. If you don't see the danger here, you aren't paying attention or are in active denial.

[japantiger 4,051]

The fact that there is an organization called NAMBLA is prima facia evidence that Weegs is right. How are these people not arrested,reviled and otherwise expunged from society? Given that they are actually allowed to exist says it all. I would also point out now that it is called LGBT, not just gay anymore.... So every freak show out there should be a protected class. You even have courts that say Massachusetts taxpayers have to pay for sex change operations for the T part of that group...20 years ago this was unthinkable...now they have an advocacy group and courts siding with them...so yeah Weegs, that slippery slope just couldn't happen... Could it?... keep fighting...

[TitanTiger 20,472]

NAMBLA? That is fear mongering. People are being arrested everyday for not only committing pedophelia, but also for possessing depictions. You are not a a crusade. You just think you are. Please, do not try to equate the right with Biblical principles. The principles of Christ do not need a supporting political movement. Besides, do you comprehend how many of these people have lurked in the Church? Finally, do you really believe that stopping same sex marriage will keep our children safe from pedophiles? I believe our hope is to start living a life that truly follows the principles of Christ and stop being used by a political movement that merely pretends to.

So because people are currently being arrested for such actions as you describe, there's no danger in changing the way this is characterized (as an "sexual orientation")?

Also, I don't think he's saying that stopping same sex marriage prevents pedophilia. I think what he and others are saying is rather than continuing to hurdle down the "virtually anything goes" fork in the road, it's long past time to squeal the brakes and do a U-turn back toward a right understanding of marriage and human sexuality.

I agree on the political party stuff though.

[AUDub 11,147]

The changes in the APA guidelines for how to handle homosexuality (it's merely an orientation, not a disorder) were a key step in the acceptance of it as normal and even "good" or at least "benign." And I think language matters here. To use the words "sexual orientation" to describe it places it in the same category as heterosexuality and homosexuality. We have laws and various societal rules in place regarding discrimination based on sexual orientation. If you don't see the danger here, you aren't paying attention or are in active denial.

There is a very big difference between the behavior of consenting adults in a homosexual relationship and the behavior of pedophiles. Surely, you're not equating the two.

A pedophilic relationship is never about consent. Whether the child views the relationship positively (NAMBLA pushes this) is surely not the point. A child is incapable of informed consent. Period. End of story. Their defining it as an orientation isn't an attempt at normalizing it. This isn't about accepting the behavior. It's about quantifying it so it can be stamped out more efficiently.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

NAMBLA? That is fear mongering. People are being arrested everyday for not only committing pedophelia, but also for possessing depictions. You are not a a crusade. You just think you are. Please, do not try to equate the right with Biblical principles. The principles of Christ do not need a supporting political movement. Besides, do you comprehend how many of these people have lurked in the Church? Finally, do you really believe that stopping same sex marriage will keep our children safe from pedophiles? I believe our hope is to start living a life that truly follows the principles of Christ and stop being used by a political movement that merely pretends to.

So because people are currently being arrested for such actions as you describe, there's no danger in changing the way this is characterized (as an "sexual orientation")?

Also, I don't think he's saying that stopping same sex marriage prevents pedophilia. I think what he and others are saying is rather than continuing to hurdle down the "virtually anything goes" fork in the road, it's long past time to squeal the brakes and do a U-turn back toward a right understanding of marriage and human sexuality.

I agree on the political party stuff though.

What I'm saying is, that the fight is not genuine. Being vocal and political is not working for the Christian right. Money that goes to a political movement in the name of Christianity is, IMHO, wasted. Christians need to unite in the principles of Christ and create their own programs in order to create a better world. Don't look for a conspiracy when there is not one. That is how Christians are often used by the political forces that appeal to them.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

The changes in the APA guidelines for how to handle homosexuality (it's merely an orientation, not a disorder) were a key step in the acceptance of it as normal and even "good" or at least "benign." And I think language matters here. To use the words "sexual orientation" to describe it places it in the same category as heterosexuality and homosexuality. We have laws and various societal rules in place regarding discrimination based on sexual orientation. If you don't see the danger here, you aren't paying attention or are in active denial.

There is a very big difference between the behavior of consenting adults in a homosexual relationship and the behavior of pedophiles. Surely, you're not equating the two.

A pedophilic relationship is never about consent. Whether the child views the relationship positively (NAMBLA pushes this) is surely not the point. A child is incapable of informed consent. Period. End of story. Their defining it as an orientation isn't an attempt at normalizing it. This isn't about accepting the behavior. It's about quantifying it so it can be stamped out more efficiently.

You do realize that age of consent laws are somewhat arbitrary, right? And the whole purpose of NAMBLA is to, if not have such laws eliminated entirely, to get the age of consent lowered significantly.

I'm not equating the two, I'm actually arguing that the APA in changing this language is careening toward equating the two. The next step will be to see if they continue to classify it as a mental disorder or not.

And given the reaction to reparative therapy, exactly how does defining it as an unalterable sexual orientation help to stamp it out?

[icanthearyou 4,462]

The changes in the APA guidelines for how to handle homosexuality (it's merely an orientation, not a disorder) were a key step in the acceptance of it as normal and even "good" or at least "benign." And I think language matters here. To use the words "sexual orientation" to describe it places it in the same category as heterosexuality and homosexuality. We have laws and various societal rules in place regarding discrimination based on sexual orientation. If you don't see the danger here, you aren't paying attention or are in active denial.

There is a very big difference between the behavior of consenting adults in a homosexual relationship and the behavior of pedophiles. Surely, you're not equating the two.

A pedophilic relationship is never about consent. Whether the child views the relationship positively (NAMBLA pushes this) is surely not the point. A child is incapable of informed consent. Period. End of story. Their defining it as an orientation isn't an attempt at normalizing it. This isn't about accepting the behavior. It's about quantifying it so it can be stamped out more efficiently.

You do realize that age of consent laws are somewhat arbitrary, right? And the whole purpose of NAMBLA is to, if not have such laws eliminated entirely, to get the age of consent lowered significantly.

I'm not equating the two, I'm actually arguing that the APA in changing this language is careening toward equating the two. The next step will be to see if they continue to classify it as a mental disorder or not.

And given the reaction to reparative therapy, exactly how does defining it as an unalterable sexual orientation help to stamp it out?

How do you propose to "stamp it out"? I doubt that's possible. I believe that we can only do what the government already does and that is catch offenders and isolate them. Face it, prisons don't punish or rehabilitate criminals. All prisons do is isolate the offenders. IMHO, the article does offer some explanation and understanding. Did you read the part about the guy who admitted his feelings but said he has never acted on them? Do you realize he is looking for help? Maybe, these researchers should get some praise rather than being criticized? The political game is the easy, do nothing answer. Maybe we should look for some level of understand and a solution. Remember, understanding and acceptance are two very different things. I know you know that and I don't mean that towards you personally.