Negative Recruiting Question

[jmacdrew 0]

I guess I will have to accept that back seat as an AU fan. Pop up every few years with a good team that is maybe good enough to compete with the top SEC teams. Oh well!!! War damn!!!!

[AUIH1 1,515]

So you feel that the answer is either to hire a position coach or a head coach with a dismal record is the answer. DC may the answer one day when he is more experienced but now is not the time. As for WM, you do realize that he failed miserably at Florida with unlimited resources in a talent rich state don't you?

With all due respect I'd rather have JJ calling the shots over you.

Check please...

Let me type slower. Hell no, I do not want a position coach (DC) or WM to be our HC. I am stating clearly (I thought) that should Gus get fired then JJ will hire someone like Craig or WM because Jay Jacobs is that incompetent.

wde

[AUIH1 1,515]

If it is 10 great players, Saban takes 6 and we take 3 and somebody else gets the rest. What up with that?

Fans, let's stop making excuses for Gustav. Let's hold him to a standard that $4million a year requires. And that starts with beating Bama in recruiting. That is the formula. Yeah we can get lucky every now and then and win with lesser talent but it won't last long.

There has never been an extended time period in which we beat UAT in recruiting. There has never been an extended time period in which we beat UGA, UF, or Tenn. in recruiting either. Shug beat them for a few years before Bryant got there. Dye had a year here and there when he beat them, same with Tuberville and the same with Chizik. If you expect AU to routinely beat these teams in recruiting you are in for a lifetime of disappointment.

Winning the recruiting war has never been how we beat these teams on the field. We beat them by trying harder on the field and staying close in the recruiting race. If we can't do it that way it's not going to get done. History tells us that.

This is all true. That is why we need very good coaching to compensate for that. However; our recruiting has been very good in general since 2009 so there is no reason why we should not be more consistent on the field than we have been since 2009.

wde

[War to the Eagle 363]

God bless you guys, but I hope you have someone else doing your investing for you. I think every single blog post I read bears the football mentality of, "Buy high, sell low." It's how you go broke.

[gctiger 931]

So you feel that the answer is either to hire a position coach or a head coach with a dismal record is the answer. DC may the answer one day when he is more experienced but now is not the time. As for WM, you do realize that he failed miserably at Florida with unlimited resources in a talent rich state don't you?

With all due respect I'd rather have JJ calling the shots over you.

Check please...

Let me type slower. Hell no, I do not want a position coach (DC) or WM to be our HC. I am stating clearly (I thought) that should Gus get fired then JJ will hire someone like Craig or WM because Jay Jacobs is that incompetent.

wde

Ok, l'll type even slower. We're better off with Gus than DC or WM. If you're going to make a change then make it a change for the better by hiring an experience HC with a winning record.

[AU64 10,122]

If it is 10 great players, Saban takes 6 and we take 3 and somebody else gets the rest. What up with that?

Fans, let's stop making excuses for Gustav. Let's hold him to a standard that $4million a year requires. And that starts with beating Bama in recruiting. That is the formula. Yeah we can get lucky every now and then and win with lesser talent but it won't last long.

There has never been an extended time period in which we beat UAT in recruiting. There has never been an extended time period in which we beat UGA, UF, or Tenn. in recruiting either. Shug beat them for a few years before Bryant got there. Dye had a year here and there when he beat them, same with Tuberville and the same with Chizik. If you expect AU to routinely beat these teams in recruiting you are in for a lifetime of disappointment.

Winning the recruiting war has never been how we beat these teams on the field. We beat them by trying harder on the field and staying close in the recruiting race. If we can't do it that way it's not going to get done. History tells us that.

Dangerous talk.......but seems your memory is pretty much that same as mine on the recruiting business.

Mostly our major recruiting wins have involved maybe one or two exceptional players who showed up at the same time and were able to lead a team that across the board was of lesser talent that the Big State U teams....and pick up some often unexpected wins.

I'm thinking all the way back to Sidle and Fredrickson, or Beasley and Sullivan, or the Bo and the great RBs....and of course there was Cam. There have been others of course but rarely has our entire recruiting class been rated higher than Bama or UGA.....

[AUIH1 1,515]

So you feel that the answer is either to hire a position coach or a head coach with a dismal record is the answer. DC may the answer one day when he is more experienced but now is not the time. As for WM, you do realize that he failed miserably at Florida with unlimited resources in a talent rich state don't you?

With all due respect I'd rather have JJ calling the shots over you.

Check please...

Let me type slower. Hell no, I do not want a position coach (DC) or WM to be our HC. I am stating clearly (I thought) that should Gus get fired then JJ will hire someone like Craig or WM because Jay Jacobs is that incompetent.

wde

Ok, l'll type even slower. We're better off with Gus than DC or WM. If you're going to make a change then make it a change for the better by hiring an experience HC with a winning record.

I agree. But if a change is made and Jay Jacobs is still the AD, then DC or WM is the type of hire we are going to get. That being posted, if Gus wins only 6 regular season games next year and again fails to beat uga or spuat, then he deserved to be fired. Our problem is that Jay Jacobs will be in charge of the next hire again.

wde

[gctiger 931]

So you feel that the answer is either to hire a position coach or a head coach with a dismal record is the answer. DC may the answer one day when he is more experienced but now is not the time. As for WM, you do realize that he failed miserably at Florida with unlimited resources in a talent rich state don't you?

With all due respect I'd rather have JJ calling the shots over you.

Check please...

Let me type slower. Hell no, I do not want a position coach (DC) or WM to be our HC. I am stating clearly (I thought) that should Gus get fired then JJ will hire someone like Craig or WM because Jay Jacobs is that incompetent.

wde

Ok, l'll type even slower. We're better off with Gus than DC or WM. If you're going to make a change then make it a change for the better by hiring an experience HC with a winning record.

I agree. But if a change is made and Jay Jacobs is still the AD, then DC or WM is the

type of hire we are going to get. That being posted, if Gus wins only 6 regular season games next year and again fails to beat uga or spuat, then he deserved to be fired. Our problem is that Jay Jacobs will be in charge of the next hire again.

wde

I agree. I misunderstood the OP and thought you were already calling for a change. We're in the same boat even if it may be the Titantic...

[WarTiger 3,901]

Deleted the back and forth. If you can't stick to the topic don't post in the thread. Take the back and forth to PM's.

[keesler 5,924]

The best way to counteract negative recruiting is to consistently put a winning product on the field and then watch those players go pro when they are done at AU.

[toddc 13,194]

The best way to counteract negative recruiting is to consistently put a winning product on the field and then watch those players go pro when they are done at AU.

+1

[lionheartkc 6,150]

The best way to counteract negative recruiting is to consistently put a winning product on the field and then watch those players go pro when they are done at AU.

That's sounds more like the best way to build a legacy.

The best way to counter negative recruiting is to prove it wrong, repeatedly. That not only eliminates the concern of the recruit, but also shines a light on the negative recruiter as being unreliable and potentially dishonest.

[tigerman1186 537]

Until WE prove it on the field, I can see why recruits are somewhat reluctant to come to Auburn...complain all you want about bama, but when their LB's are being drafted in the NFL or making 1st team all-conference then you see why someone would go there over us...hopefully TWill can change this...but right now there is too much of a question about where is Auburn headed....I hope up....we need several good years; can't be a roller-coaster, must be consistent.

[AUwent 3,748]

^Frost was such a blown opportunity. Maybe Williams and Neal can help make the case?

[Mikey 16,579]

^Frost was such a blown opportunity. Maybe Williams and Neal can help make the case?

I don't see Frost as a blown opportunity. He simply did not have the knack for playing the position. We'd have been better off to leave him at WR. Blown opportunity would be the 2011, 12, 13 and 14 recruiting years, when we didn't get the quality or quantity of players we needed to have a solid group of SEC linebackers.

[WDE_OxPx_2010 5,297]

1) It's not negative recruiting when it's true.

2) you're not going to stop negative recruiting in the SEC.

I love Auburn. But as the Creed says, we have to be practical. In 30 years those old men sitting at the Cracker Barrel will be talking about Saban like your dads (or Golf) currently talk about the Bear. Alabama is on a tear right now and has the means and determination to continue it. We can't think like them, as has been stated above. We're not Alabama. We're Auburn. It's not conceding defeat- it's knowing your limits and living within them.

I'd like to see a run of 3-4 years with 9-10 wins. That's a step up for us and that should be our goal. That would slow the negative recruiting. You can't stop it.

[PoetTiger 1,896]

^Frost was such a blown opportunity. Maybe Williams and Neal can help make the case?

I don't see Frost as a blown opportunity. He simply did not have the knack for playing the position. We'd have been better off to leave him at WR. Blown opportunity would be the 2011, 12, 13 and 14 recruiting years, when we didn't get the quality or quantity of players we needed to have a solid group of SEC linebackers.

I agree ...AU swung and missed on a lot of prospects during that time

[keesler 5,924]

The best way to counteract negative recruiting is to consistently put a winning product on the field and then watch those players go pro when they are done at AU.

That's sounds more like the best way to build a legacy.

The best way to counter negative recruiting is to prove it wrong, repeatedly. That not only eliminates the concern of the recruit, but also shines a light on the negative recruiter as being unreliable and potentially dishonest.

Win at a high level consistently, compete for championships and at the very least finish the season with a ranked team every year, funnel your players to the pro's and that would damn sure make those negative recruiters appear unreliable and in turn it would counteract their efforts to shine a negative light on the AU program. But when AU finds themselves dead last in the division at the end of the season, goes to the damn Birmingham Bowl and in the process ends up losing 3/4 of the coaching staff..........that is self inflicted negativity IMHO.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

The best way to counteract negative recruiting is to consistently put a winning product on the field and then watch those players go pro when they are done at AU.

That's sounds more like the best way to build a legacy.

The best way to counter negative recruiting is to prove it wrong, repeatedly. That not only eliminates the concern of the recruit, but also shines a light on the negative recruiter as being unreliable and potentially dishonest.

Win at a high level consistently, compete for championships and at the very least finish the season with a ranked team every year, funnel your players to the pro's and that would damn sure make those negative recruiters appear unreliable and in turn it would counteract their efforts to shine a negative light on the AU program. But when AU finds themselves dead last in the division at the end of the season, goes to the damn Birmingham Bowl and in the process ends up losing 3/4 of the coaching staff..........that is self inflicted negativity IMHO.

It certainly creates plenty of things to speculate about. At the same time, bama does all of the things you listed and people can and do still negative recruit them, mainly because they treat their players/recruits as disposable, their fans are a nightmare, Saban is a jerk, and Tuscaloosa is... well... Tuscaloosa.

[gr82b4au 5,568]

We have consistently recruited well over the last few years under Gus. We are still recruiting well.

[keesler 5,924]

The best way to counteract negative recruiting is to consistently put a winning product on the field and then watch those players go pro when they are done at AU.

That's sounds more like the best way to build a legacy.

The best way to counter negative recruiting is to prove it wrong, repeatedly. That not only eliminates the concern of the recruit, but also shines a light on the negative recruiter as being unreliable and potentially dishonest.

Win at a high level consistently, compete for championships and at the very least finish the season with a ranked team every year, funnel your players to the pro's and that would damn sure make those negative recruiters appear unreliable and in turn it would counteract their efforts to shine a negative light on the AU program. But when AU finds themselves dead last in the division at the end of the season, goes to the damn Birmingham Bowl and in the process ends up losing 3/4 of the coaching staff..........that is self inflicted negativity IMHO.

It certainly creates plenty of things to speculate about. At the same time, bama does all of the things you listed and people can and do still negative recruit them, mainly because they treat their players/recruits as disposable, their fans are a nightmare, Saban is a jerk, and Tuscaloosa is... well... Tuscaloosa.

Heavy is the head that wears the crown, right? Meanwhile, I guess we can keep hoping, wishing, and waiting for a dethroning to come soon. :-\

[keesler 5,924]

We have consistently recruited well over the last few years under Gus. We are still recruiting well.

In reality the recruiting stepped up big time when Chizik & staff came aboard. So you are 100% correct, AU has consistently recruited great talent. But I think most folks would agree that talent isn't the problem.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

We have consistently recruited well over the last few years under Gus. We are still recruiting well.

In reality the recruiting stepped up big time when Chizik & staff came aboard. So you are 100% correct, AU has consistently recruited great talent. But I think most folks would agree that talent isn't the problem.

I honestly believe that Auburn has 2 problems in recruiting.

The first is that, when we have been really good, our offensive identity is VERY unique and it's made it too easy for other schools to say 1. that we aren't a good fit for top passers because we focus on the run and 2. that we aren't developing QBs for the NFL.

The second is that bama has been employing a very cunning but underhanded technique for as long as Saban has been there, which has been a thorn in our side. Instead of trying to out recruit us across the board, they have targeted one key position and made us so ineffective in that area, by either snatching up everyone we wanted, having silent commits publicly commit to us and then flip at the last minute so we can't replace them, or convincing them to go anywhere but Auburn, that even if they were to stop, it will take us years to get to where we are considered an easy choice for top recruits. That position is, of course, Linebacker. They tried to do the same thing at running back, but it only worked once. Auburn is too solid in that position.

[keesler 5,924]

When uat recruits the top 1 or 2 player at their position in multiple states every year, that's hard for AU and many other programs to go up against.

I mean the last couple of years they've been known to sign some of the the top position players from freaking Iowa/Virginia/NewJersey/Colorado/Minnesota/OH/TX/LA/TX/OK + AL/MS/SC/AR. Saban isn't just trying to be cunning and underhanded by out recruiting just Auburn, he's been recruiting nationwide with the intention of targeting every position in an effort to leave his opponent ineffective in many areas. The whole silent commit/flipping of an in-state player or two that we thought we had in the basket is nothing more than drama cooked up to add a dig to your in-state rival.

Aside from all of the this is the fact that Arkansas, Miss State, and until very recently OleMiss have always has sub-par talent compared to Auburn. That's why I have such a hard time losing to those guys. In the last 5 yr we are 2-3 vs MSU & Arky and that's hard to swallow.

[gr82b4au 5,568]

Will this year we have 2 great linebackers already committed, including one that is a top 100 player in the country. Other than frost (who did not live up to expectations) I can't remember the last elite linebacker that we signed. But if things stay the same that will change this year.

We have recruited more top defensive talent to AU over the last few years than I can remember over the last 15 years. Our defense should be salty this year.