Which Players are Leaving?

[bigbird 60,512]

Especially if he has a high vertical as well

[augolf1716 21,109]

2 hours ago, bigbird said:

Especially if he has a high vertical as well

Seems to be a draft in here

[BJCrawford 1,568]

Kind of a side topic here, but sports talk seems to be all about “the portal”. It’s mostly about well known targets but if I heard correctly, the list in the portal is extensive.   Are we sure we dont have anyone in the infamous portal?

[McLoofus 35,182]

7 minutes ago, BJCrawford said:

Kind of a side topic here, but sports talk seems to be all about “the portal”. It’s mostly about well known targets but if I heard correctly, the list in the portal is extensive.   Are we sure we dont have anyone in the infamous portal?

 

[abw0004 10,110]

18 minutes ago, BJCrawford said:

Kind of a side topic here, but sports talk seems to be all about “the portal”. It’s mostly about well known targets but if I heard correctly, the list in the portal is extensive.   Are we sure we dont have anyone in the infamous portal?

We do.  Jauntavius Johnson

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, abw0004 said:

We do.  Jauntavius Johnson

3 years ago, we had Montravius Adams, Dontavius Russell and Jauntavius Johnson on the DL. Now we got no hope, no jobs and no cash. 

[abw0004 10,110]

4 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

3 years ago, we had Montravius Adams, Dontavius Russell and Jauntavius Johnson on the DL. Now we got no hope, no jobs and no cash. 

I don't remember him playing that year.  I know this year he only played 13 snaps.  He probably saw who was returning and the incoming talent.  This is probably his best move.

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

I don't remember him playing that year.  I know this year he only played 13 snaps.  He probably saw who was returning and the incoming talent.  This is probably his best move.

He and Montravius might've passed in the night, not sure. But I'm not gonna let you take that joke away from me. Even some of the best art requires a little suspension of disbelief.

[AUght2win 6,833]

3 hours ago, metafour said:

Buddy, your entire argument is devolving into whataboutism.

I never stated that running fast was some golden ticket that guaranteed you a high draft position, so I fail to see what you are "debunking".  Did you even bother to look into the background of Robert Foster? Robert Foster did virtually nothing at Alabama, battling injuries and otherwise failing to produce in his entire career.  In his draft year he caught a pathetic 14 passes for 174 yards and 1 touchdown.  In his entire CAREER he caught just 35 passes for 389 yards.  Despite virtually zero production he was still invited to the Combine, where his athleticism shined.  Yes, he still went undrafted...but wouldn't you say that his general lack of production was the primary factor? Very few if any players get drafted with as little on-field production as Foster showed, so you aren't proving anything by trying to use him as an example.  In fact, Robert Foster actually DEBUNKS your own argument.  Despite doing nothing at Alabama, and despite being undrafted, Foster not only made an NFL roster but he actually caught 27 passes for 541 yards and 3 touchdowns as a rookie for the Bills.  At ~20 yards per reception, he proved to be an extremely dangerous deep threat.....BECAUSE OF HIS ATHLETICISM.  He was more productive in his rookie season in the NFL than he was in his entire collegiate career, and the only reason why he even got a shot to play in the NFL in the first place was because of his athletic upside, not because he showed some extreme "technical" ability in his otherwise completely forgettable collegiate career LMAO.

The reason why Slayton is intriguing is because the NFL is always in high demand for receivers who can stretch the field and create separation.  Its why brick-handed Sammie Coates went in the 3rd round.  That "skill" requires outright athleticism, you can't "technique" your way to running past a DB down the field.  To state that athleticism doesn't matter at the receiver position is utter nonsense.  The guys who aren't particularly elite runners make their way by presenting other physical traits, almost always size and strength.  Yes, you can get away with being a 4.5-4.6 receiver....if you are 6'3+ and 215+ pounds.  If you have any sense of draft history then you will know that NFL teams have disproved your asinine statement a million times already.  The top drafted receivers ALWAYS display a certain combination of "athleticism" and physical stature.  And it is entirely measurable.  Look at Laquon Treadwell who was seen as a Top 10-15 talent until he ran slow as hell and tested poorly on his Pro Day; he dropped to the late 1st round.  Then look at Washington's John Ross who was a late 1st round pick until he ran a ridiculous 4.22 at the Combine, which ultimately led to him being drafted 9th overall.  He actually strained his calf during the 40 and couldn't do much in terms of position drills, so his "rise" after the Combine couldn't have had anything to do with him showing any sort of "technical" ability LOL.  He got drafted high solely because of his innate speed.  Now look at the ELITE receivers in the NFL.  Find me even one guy who is "average" athletically and yet is still able to perform at an elite level.  You think that Julio Jones is as good as he is because of his "craftiness" LMAO? How about he kid from Kansas City, Tyreek Hill? Calvin Johnson? Randy Moss? All of these guys obviously possess technique and "skill", but to pretend like their innate freakish athleticism isn't the driving force behind their dominance is beyond silly.  Even guys like Larry Fitzgerald are top-level athletes.  Fitzgerald ran in the 4.48-4.50 range at his Pro Day, which is very impressive once you consider that he measured 6'3 225 pounds (again, physical size and strength is another TOOL).

 You seem to be completely over-exaggerating what I'm even saying about Slayton.  Not once did I claim that he was going to be a 1st round pick.  I said that he has a chance to go as high as the 3rd round if he tests as well as some people are claiming he will.  The reason why I brought him up is because if you've read this thread, the general consensus among people here is that he will be lucky to even get drafted.  Nothing I've stated is even remotely out of the realm of possibility as NFL teams "overdraft" athleticism every single year.  If you've actually watched the games, Slayton has beaten guys deep consistently even on plays where he ultimately didn't even catch the ball.  There were LOTS of plays this year wherein Stidham simply missed him, including another pass against Purdue that would have been a 4th touchdown (early in the game).  Those go as incompletions on the stat sheet, but they don't go unnoticed by NFL scouts.  His speed routinely shows in games, and if he runs in the 4'3's at ~6'2 then you better bet that there is at least one team that takes the risk on his athletic upside, even if it just means using him as a deep threat.

He will be extremely lucky to get drafted before round 5. It is way more likely he goes undrafted than goes in round 3. 

Let's get more specific about what we're talking about here other than just the broad term of "athleticism". What Darius Slayton has is track star talent. Straight line speed, agility, and the ability to jump high. But he lacks receiver skills - route running, great hands, body control, elusiveness. When they talk about "complete receiver", it means having both elements. To even qualify to play in the NFL, you have to have track star talent, so every prospect does to some degree. But what separates a draft worthy prospect is how refined of an actual receiver he is.

Rounds 1-3 are on players that are going to make an immediate, positive impact on their squads. You don't spend a third round pick on a raw project. Slayton may be great in the NFL, but it won't be any time soon. Someone is going to have to teach him how to play wide out, and that is a long-con risk. It is a totally different mindset from what Gus Malzahn has. Gus will take an athletic DB and make him a receiver (Slayton), a QB and make him a running back (Whitlow), a DT and make him an OT (Tega) but the NFL doesn't have time for this and a small margin of error for missing on draft picks. They aren't going to teach you how to play the position, they will draft someone who already knows how. That is why Slayton is nowhere near a 3rd rounder. The guy doesn't have the receiver skills. 

[AUght2win 6,833]

3 hours ago, metafour said:

Buddy, your entire argument is devolving into whataboutism.

I never stated that running fast was some golden ticket that guaranteed you a high draft position, so I fail to see what you are "debunking".  Did you even bother to look into the background of Robert Foster? Robert Foster did virtually nothing at Alabama, battling injuries and otherwise failing to produce in his entire career.  In his draft year he caught a pathetic 14 passes for 174 yards and 1 touchdown.  In his entire CAREER he caught just 35 passes for 389 yards.  Despite virtually zero production he was still invited to the Combine, where his athleticism shined.  Yes, he still went undrafted...but wouldn't you say that his general lack of production was the primary factor? Very few if any players get drafted with as little on-field production as Foster showed, so you aren't proving anything by trying to use him as an example.  In fact, Robert Foster actually DEBUNKS your own argument.  Despite doing nothing at Alabama, and despite being undrafted, Foster not only made an NFL roster but he actually caught 27 passes for 541 yards and 3 touchdowns as a rookie for the Bills.  At ~20 yards per reception, he proved to be an extremely dangerous deep threat.....BECAUSE OF HIS ATHLETICISM.  He was more productive in his rookie season in the NFL than he was in his entire collegiate career, and the only reason why he even got a shot to play in the NFL in the first place was because of his athletic upside, not because he showed some extreme "technical" ability in his otherwise completely forgettable collegiate career LMAO.

The reason why Slayton is intriguing is because the NFL is always in high demand for receivers who can stretch the field and create separation.  Its why brick-handed Sammie Coates went in the 3rd round.  That "skill" requires outright athleticism, you can't "technique" your way to running past a DB down the field.  To state that athleticism doesn't matter at the receiver position is utter nonsense.  The guys who aren't particularly elite runners make their way by presenting other physical traits, almost always size and strength.  Yes, you can get away with being a 4.5-4.6 receiver....if you are 6'3+ and 215+ pounds.  If you have any sense of draft history then you will know that NFL teams have disproved your asinine statement a million times already.  The top drafted receivers ALWAYS display a certain combination of "athleticism" and physical stature.  And it is entirely measurable.  Look at Laquon Treadwell who was seen as a Top 10-15 talent until he ran slow as hell and tested poorly on his Pro Day; he dropped to the late 1st round.  Then look at Washington's John Ross who was a late 1st round pick until he ran a ridiculous 4.22 at the Combine, which ultimately led to him being drafted 9th overall.  He actually strained his calf during the 40 and couldn't do much in terms of position drills, so his "rise" after the Combine couldn't have had anything to do with him showing any sort of "technical" ability LOL.  He got drafted high solely because of his innate speed.  Now look at the ELITE receivers in the NFL.  Find me even one guy who is "average" athletically and yet is still able to perform at an elite level.  You think that Julio Jones is as good as he is because of his "craftiness" LMAO? How about he kid from Kansas City, Tyreek Hill? Calvin Johnson? Randy Moss? All of these guys obviously possess technique and "skill", but to pretend like their innate freakish athleticism isn't the driving force behind their dominance is beyond silly.  Even guys like Larry Fitzgerald are top-level athletes.  Fitzgerald ran in the 4.48-4.50 range at his Pro Day, which is very impressive once you consider that he measured 6'3 225 pounds (again, physical size and strength is another TOOL).

You seem to be completely over-exaggerating what I'm even saying about Slayton.  Not once did I claim that he was going to be a 1st round pick.  I said that he has a chance to go as high as the 3rd round if he tests as well as some people are claiming he will.  The reason why I brought him up is because if you've read this thread, the general consensus among people here is that he will be lucky to even get drafted.  Nothing I've stated is even remotely out of the realm of possibility as NFL teams "overdraft" athleticism every single year.  If you've actually watched the games, Slayton has beaten guys deep consistently even on plays where he ultimately didn't even catch the ball.  There were LOTS of plays this year wherein Stidham simply missed him, including another pass against Purdue that would have been a 4th touchdown (early in the game).  Those go as incompletions on the stat sheet, but they don't go unnoticed by NFL scouts.  His speed routinely shows in games, and if he runs in the 4'3's at ~6'2 then you better bet that there is at least one team that takes the risk on his athletic upside, even if it just means using him as a deep threat.

And the problem with our offense is that Slayton's bread and butter - running free deep - doesn't mean much in the NFL because it's simply impossible. DBs are too smart and fast to get beat on a play action fly route. It almost never happens. Show me a guy that takes a slant to the house. That's what'll get you drafted.

[abw0004 10,110]

16 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

He and Montravius might've passed in the night, not sure. But I'm not gonna let you take that joke away from me. Even some of the best art requires a little suspension of disbelief.

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

 You don't spend a third round pick on a raw project.

Coates was a raw project.

4 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

They aren't going to teach you how to play the position, they will draft someone who already knows how. That is why Slayton is nowhere near a 3rd rounder.

Who are the guys who are going to get drafted ahead of him?

10, 14, 9, 14, 15, 11, 13

That's the number of WRs taken in the first 3 rounds each of the last 7 years, starting with last year. And since last year was a low-number year, there's reason to believe there will be more like 13 or 14 taken in the first 3 rounds this year. 

Include the 4th round, where I predict his floor is, and you really start getting into some high numbers and random names none of us have ever heard. 

I think you're underestimating the NFL's appetite for the position and willingness to take what's available. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

5 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

And the problem with our offense is that Slayton's bread and butter - running free deep - doesn't mean much in the NFL because it's simply impossible. DBs are too smart and fast to get beat on a play action fly route. It almost never happens. 

He did this to a top-15 draft pick. Too bad the pass wasn't on target. Also, NFL cornerbacks still have to defend those passes. And those passes do get thrown, regularly. Which means that the defense has to defend the entire field. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

Look at DSlay, just running free and dropping perfectly thrown passes.

[AUght2win 6,833]

6 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Coates was a raw project.

Who are the guys who are going to get drafted ahead of him?

10, 14, 9, 14, 15, 11, 13

That's the number of WRs taken in the first 3 rounds each of the last 7 years, starting with last year. And since last year was a low-number year, there's reason to believe there will be more like 13 or 14 taken in the first 3 rounds this year. 

 Include the 4th round, where I predict his floor is, and you really start getting into some high numbers and random names none of us have ever heard. 

I think you're underestimating the NFL's appetite for the position and willingness to take what's available. 

Draftek, the only site updating their rankings as prospects declare, has Slay at 20. https://www.drafttek.com/2019-NFL-Draft-Prospect-Rankings/Top-College-WRs-2019-Draft.asp 

And let me amend my statement to "smart" teams don't take projects in the top 3 rounds. Coates is a perfect example of what happens if you do. 

[AUght2win 6,833]

1 minute ago, McLoofus said:

Look at DSlay, just running free and dropping perfectly thrown passes.

Isn't it a little nonsensical to post individual plays? Slayton made some spectacular plays in college, of course. If you want me to rebut these with clips of chest-catches or dropped jump balls I can do that too, but I don't think anything would get accomplished. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, AUght2win said:

And let me amend my statement to "smart" teams don't take projects in the top 3 rounds.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's not amending your statement. That's changing your argument. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, AUght2win said:

Isn't it a little nonsensical to post individual plays? Slayton made some spectacular plays in college, of course. If you want me to rebut these with clips of chest-catches or dropped jump balls I can do that too, but I don't think anything would get accomplished. 

Yeah, the one you responded to was dumb. But him straight up smoking a first round bama cornerback wasn't. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

7 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Look at DSlay, just running free and dropping perfectly thrown passes.

Yeah, we all know Slayton. This is pretty cheap, throw away argument. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

2018: 20th WR would've been the first pick of the 6th round.

2017: 4th round

2016: Last pick of 5th round

2015: 2nd pick of 5th round

2014: 4th round

2013: 6th round

2012: 4th round

So again, since last year was thin on WRs, there's plenty of reason to believe that the 20th WR in this year's draft will get taken 5th round or higher, very likely before the 7th round, and will almost certainly drafted.

Now, if we believe that Slayton might be better than the 20th WR after testing, then he really starts looking like a 5th rounder or better. If he's halfway between your guy and meta's guy at 16, then he's almost a lock for the 4th round. If you believe he's below that 20 mark, it admittedly gets murky. 

 

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

25 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

 

<quietly, looking at the ground, toeing a pebble>

@AUsince72 thought it was funny. Jerkface.

[Randman5000 4,226]

5 hours ago, aujeff11 said:

Apparently I have a permanent warning point. The same one has been there since 2016.

Haha. Me too!

[McLoofus 35,182]

18 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

Draftek, the only site updating their rankings as prospects declare, has Slay at 20. https://www.drafttek.com/2019-NFL-Draft-Prospect-Rankings/Top-College-WRs-2019-Draft.asp 

And let me amend my statement to "smart" teams don't take projects in the top 3 rounds. Coates is a perfect example of what happens if you do. 

Cool site, btw, for real. Much more volatility than I expected. 

[Randman5000 4,226]

23 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Look at DSlay, just running free and dropping perfectly thrown passes.

But yet Stidham sucks and can't take proper coaching from our QB guru's..

[abw0004 10,110]

10 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

<quietly, looking at the ground, toeing a pebble>

@AUsince72 thought it was funny. Jerkface.