Football Rules and some Interpretations

[eibua12 81]

They have changed the rule on the single high bounce onside kicks. The receiving team can now call for a fair catch on those kicks.

Add new paragraph e:

e. During a free kick a player of the receiving team in position

to receive the ball has the same kick-catch and fair-catch protection

whether the ball is kicked directly off the tee or is immediately

driven to the ground, strikes the ground once and

goes into the air in the manner of the ball kicked directly off

the tee.

This is accompanied by an exception in paragraph a regarding

the kick touching the ground.

Don't you see all kinds of problems with this rule?

Not really. I don't particularly like it, but I know why it was done. Look at the rule changes put in place this season. They all have the same thing in common. They are all centered around player safety. Coaches are just going to have to find another way to execute an onside kick.

So if the ball hits the ground before the fair catch is signaled then it is game on correct? If we do what we did in the Chick Fil A bowl I am not sure the players would have time to actually signal for a fair catch before the ball touched the ground. There isn't enough time between recognition and execution.

So the play becomes don't hit it high hit is a bit lower and let get the team to block. Another question. I assume once the ball hits the ground there is no possibility for an interfere with the opportunity to catch the ball correct?

[WarTiger 3,923]

I've always wondered why the Imgram fumble in the 2010 Iron Bowl was ruled a touchback before AU recovered it. If you watch the replay, the side judge clearly blows his whistle and motions for a touchback before AU recovers the ball.

Well, mainly because it pretty obivous that if Auburn didn't recover it, it was going to leave the endzone. Either option results in a touchback and the offense losing possession.

[WarTiger 3,923]

They have changed the rule on the single high bounce onside kicks. The receiving team can now call for a fair catch on those kicks.

Add new paragraph e:

e. During a free kick a player of the receiving team in position

to receive the ball has the same kick-catch and fair-catch protection

whether the ball is kicked directly off the tee or is immediately

driven to the ground, strikes the ground once and

goes into the air in the manner of the ball kicked directly off

the tee.

This is accompanied by an exception in paragraph a regarding

the kick touching the ground.

Don't you see all kinds of problems with this rule?

Not really. I don't particularly like it, but I know why it was done. Look at the rule changes put in place this season. They all have the same thing in common. They are all centered around player safety. Coaches are just going to have to find another way to execute an onside kick.

So if the ball hits the ground before the fair catch is signaled then it is game on correct? If we do what we did in the Chick Fil A bowl I am not sure the players would have time to actually signal for a fair catch before the ball touched the ground. There isn't enough time between recognition and execution.

You are applying the rule to the wrong kind of kick here. The fair catch option is only available for the single high hop kicks. Look back at our onside kick vs. Utah State last year. That's the absolute text book example of the kick that the receiving team can now call for a fair catch. Single HIGH HOP kick that was grounded.

So the play becomes don't hit it high hit is a bit lower and let get the team to block. Another question. I assume once the ball hits the ground there is no possibility for an interfere with the opportunity to catch the ball correct?

If its a single hop kick, that would be kick catching interference. He still has to be given an unimpeded opportunity to catch the kick. The little squib kick that we have done so effectively down the middle of the field with the kicker recovering it, is still perfectly legal and would still be a free ball after it travels 10 yards or the receiving team touches it.

[eulessau 115]

On the high one bounce kick, what's to prevent every player on receiving team (or at least everyone on that side of field) from calling faircatch, thereby making it illegal for the kicking team to hit anybody.

[WarTiger 3,923]

On the high one bounce kick, what's to prevent every player on receiving team (or at least everyone on that side of field) from calling faircatch, thereby making it illegal for the kicking team to hit anybody.

Because to be afforded protection they have to be in a position to actually catch the ball.

Interference With Opportunity

ARTICLE 1. A player of the receiving team within the boundary lines

attempting to catch a kick, and so located that he could have caught a free

kick or a scrimmage kick that is beyond the neutral zone, must be given an

unimpeded opportunity to catch the kick

[eulessau 115]

Thanks WarTiger. This has been a very informative thread! Hope to see you post often about rules quetions.

[WarTiger 3,923]

Here's another one in regards to kicking.

On this play the offense is in a srimmage kick (punt) formation. It's 4th and 5 from their own 45. K kicks the ball, where a member of the recieving team is waiting to return the kick. He moves forward to field the punt at his own 12 yard line, but muffs the kick. As a result of the muff, the ball is loose and bouncing inside the 10 toward his own goal line. Players are trying to recover the ball and it ends up being recovered by a member of the kicking team at the 3 yard line and advanced into the endzone. What is the call here??

Answer: First and goal for the kicking team at the team B 3 yard line. Because the kick was MUFFED and not Fumbled, the kick never ended. When K recovered the ball it was still a kick. K can not advance a kick, so it returns to the spot of recovery.

[WarNole 141]

Very interesting. I never thought about fumble vs muffed. To fumble, you must have had possession first then lose control. Muffed thus means attempting to catch the kick or punt, but never having possession of the ball.

Thanks for the info.

[WarTiger 3,923]

Here's another one that rarely happens, but its good to know in case it does. K is in scrimmage kick (punt) formation. When K1 kicks the ball it goes straight up in the air and never crosses the line of scrimmage. Who does the ball belong to?

Answer: A scrimmage kick that never crosses the neutral zone, remains live and players of either team can recover and advance the ball.

Behind the Neutral Zone

ARTICLE 1. a. A scrimmage kick that fails to cross the neutral zone continues

in play. All players may catch or recover the ball behind the neutral zone and

advance it (A.R. 6-3-1-I-III).

[TXaubie 567]

Not trying to derail this thread. Just had a quick question regarding SEC officials. Thought this was a good time to ask. Is it true to become an official in the SEC you must have played in the SEC?

WarTiger the NFL could use someone like you right about now.

[WarTiger 3,923]

Not trying to derail this thread. Just had a quick question regarding SEC officials. Thought this was a good time to ask. Is it true to become an official in the SEC you must have played in the SEC?

WarTiger the NFL could use someone like you right about now.

absolutely NOT...at least not that I know of. Let me try to explain how these officials get where they are, particularly at the division 1 level. 1. They work their butts off. 2. they pay a lot of money out of pocket. 3. they are in the right place at the right time. Now, let me break down some of this. They really know their s*** or they wouldn't be where they are. Sure, there is brown nosing and political crap that goes on within the groups (particularly at the higher level), but they still have to know what they are doing. Most don't know this and wonder where these people come from, but believe it or not, there are officiating camps across the country. Some of these camps are 2-3 day camps, others are 5-7 day camps. Each of these camps cost money to attend. The officials have to also pay for their lodging and several meals as well as transportation to the camps. Most of the good camps are around $400 - $500. When officials go to these camps they sit in classroom sessions talking about rule interpretations like we are doing here, ethics in officiating, mechanics, etc. I've been calling games now for over 20 years and I always learn something new when I go out on the field. We never know it all, we just continue to learn. When they go to these camps, there are guest speakers and such lined up. There are often some officers or booking commisioners from several of the major conferences. This is where the luck comes in. Those conferences, the SEC for example may be looking for 1 or 2 officials, but you are at a camp with about 300 officials. That's why its so incredibly difficult to move up. Officials at the lower division level don't get taken care of nearly like the Division 1 officials do. Division 1 officials (in any sport) make a lot of money. So, in short, its a very difficult road to travel to get to the Division 1 level. For all the complaints there are about the officiating, just remember what they had to do to get where they are. They really are the best of the best.

[Slammer1 409]

Not trying to derail this thread. Just had a quick question regarding SEC officials. Thought this was a good time to ask. Is it true to become an official in the SEC you must have played in the SEC?

WarTiger the NFL could use someone like you right about now.

absolutely NOT...at least not that I know of. Let me try to explain how these officials get where they are, particularly at the division 1 level. 1. They work their butts off. 2. they pay a lot of money out of pocket. 3. they are in the right place at the right time. Now, let me break down some of this. They really know their s*** or they wouldn't be where they are. Sure, there is brown nosing and political crap that goes on within the groups (particularly at the higher level), but they still have to know what they are doing. Most don't know this and wonder where these people come from, but believe it or not, there are officiating camps across the country. Some of these camps are 2-3 day camps, others are 5-7 day camps. Each of these camps cost money to attend. The officials have to also pay for their lodging and several meals as well as transportation to the camps. Most of the good camps are around $400 - $500. When officials go to these camps they sit in classroom sessions talking about rule interpretations like we are doing here, ethics in officiating, mechanics, etc. I've been calling games now for over 20 years and I always learn something new when I go out on the field. We never know it all, we just continue to learn. When they go to these camps, there are guest speakers and such lined up. There are often some officers or booker commisioners from several of the major conferences. This is where the luck comes in. Those conferences, the SEC for example may be looking for 1 or 2 officials, but you are at a camp with about 300 officials. That's why its so incredibly difficult to move up. Officials at the lower division level don't get taken care of nearly like the Division 1 officials do. Division 1 officials (in any sport) make a lot of money. So, in short, its a very difficult road to travel to get to the Division 1 level. For all the complaints there are about the officiating, just remember what they had to do to get where they are. They really are the best of the best.

War Tiger this is great, great stuff and I hope you continue with this during the season, especially with "controversial plays" that are bound to occur. Tommy Lorino, a great player for Auburn on our 1957 team and great person to boot was an SEC official for years. He is retired now and I haven't seen him in a while but I used to pick his brain about officiating stuff but never got into the nuts and bolts like you are doing here. He was a side judge I believe because he was in great shape and could keep up with the wide receivers. I always asked him why he didn't go for the white hat but he had no interest in it. Great guy and great friend.

[norcuron 35]

There will be mistakes. Im amazed of all the things they do see!

BUT sometimes I am amazed of the things they "dont see" I am of the camp to give instant replay a little more authority.

and th issue of taunting and excessive celebration.

Taunting , Heck, the stuff we used to say to our opponents accross the line to intemidate them would make make the devil blush! But dont high step into the endzone!

Excessive celebration, If your a Sr. lineman who scoops up a fumble and runs it in for your very first touchdown and it wins the game? Hell let the boy moonwalk as far as im concerned!

[WarTiger 3,923]

I will certainly continue during the season and feel free to post up plays or situations that may come up too. I can't watch every game, although I try. Also with the addition of Texas A&M and Missouri to the SEC, the SEC has expanded the officiating and added a new crew. They have also removed some (from what I hear) from last years crews. Whether you realize it or not, these officials are constantly evaluated. I attended a camp in Panama City a few years ago and there was an official (white hat or referree) from the sun belt conference there. He was also a reserve official for the SEC. I fully expect him to be called up to full time in the SEC this year with the new crew addition. He will never officiate any Auburn games, because he lives in Auburn and attended Auburn. But, he's a really good official and a great person. We had several conversations over the course of the camp.

[WarTiger 3,923]

There will be mistakes. Im amazed of all the things they do see!

BUT sometimes I am amazed of the things they "dont see" I am of the camp to give instant replay a little more authority.

and th issue of taunting and excessive celebration.

Taunting , Heck, the stuff we used to say to our opponents accross the line to intemidate them would make make the devil blush! But dont high step into the endzone!

Excessive celebration, If your a Sr. lineman who scoops up a fumble and runs it in for your very first touchdown and it wins the game? Hell let the boy moonwalk as far as im concerned!

This is a pet peeve of mine. Taunting has no place in the game whatsoever. The game is a lot more violent than it used to be even only 20 years ago. The rules on taunting and excessive celebration were carefully considered. Football is a team sport. Anything that draws unnecessary attention to an individual should be immediately penalized. What fans need to understand when they see an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty enforced is what caused it. They may show the replay and see a player just standing there and he didn't physically do anything to anybody. But, what you don't know is how many times an official has told him to shut his mouth. There are not going to warn players all night. They may warn once or twice, but after that, the flag is flying. Whether the fans like the rules or not, is really immaterial. The rules are in place for a reason and every coach is responsible for knowing them and teaching their players what they are. If they get flagged for something like that, its nobody's fault but theirs. Heres a list of prohibted acts, but keep in mind its not limited to these acts.

a. Specifically prohibited acts and conduct include:

1. No player, substitute, coach or other person subject to the rules shall

use abusive, threatening or obscene language or gestures, or engage in

such acts that provoke ill will or are demeaning to an opponent, to game

officials or to the image of the game, including but not limited to:

(a) Pointing the finger(s), hand(s), arm(s) or ball at an opponent, or

imitating the slashing of the throat.

( Taunting, baiting or ridiculing an opponent verbally.

© Inciting an opponent or spectators in any other way, such as

simulating the firing of a weapon or placing a hand by the ear to

request recognition.

(d) Any delayed, excessive, prolonged or choreographed act by which

a player (or players) attempts to focus attention upon himself (or

themselves).

(e) An unopposed ball carrier obviously altering stride as he approaches

the opponent’s goal line or diving into the end zone.

(f) Removal of a player’s helmet before he is in the team area

(Exceptions: Team, media or injury timeouts; equipment adjustment;

through play; between periods; and during a measurement for a first

down).

(g) Punching one’s own chest or crossing one’s arms in front of the chest

while standing over a prone player.

(h) Going into the stands to interact with spectators, or bowing at the

waist after a good play.

[WarTiger 3,923]

Tonights South Carolina/Vanderbilt game didn't really provide much to discuss, but there was one play that involved a rule change this year. That rule involves the helmet coming off of a player and that plaer leaving the game. The part that some may not realize is this doesn't apply if the helmet comes off as a result of a penalty. Tonight the helmet came off of a South Carolina WR after a high hit. The hit was penalized (correct call) and the WR was allowed to remain in the game. The penalty by the defense is what forced his helmet off, so he doesn't have to sit out a down. Here's the rule reference:

Rule 3‐3‐9 (FR‐51) New Article

Helmet Comes Off‐‐Timeout

ARTICLE 9.

a. If during the down a player’s helmet comes completely off, other than as the direct result

of a foul by an opponent, the player must leave the game for the next down. The game

clock will stop at the end of the down.

Further more, A player who's helmet comes off during the down that IS NOT the result of a penalty, MUST STOP participating in the down. If he continues to particpate its a 15 yard unsportsmanlike penalty. Likewise, if he stops participating as he is supposed to and he his hit by an opponent, it is a 15 yard personal foul penalty on the opponent.

Rule 9‐1‐17 (FR‐87) (New Article)

Continued Participation Without Helmet

ARTICLE 17.

A player whose helmet comes completely off during a down may not continue to participate in the

play beyond the immediate action in which he is engaged.

[ToomersRevenge 284]

Tonights South Carolina/Vanderbilt game didn't really provide much to discuss, but there was one play that involved a rule change this year. That rule involves the helmet coming off of a player and that plaer leaving the game. The part that some may not realize is this doesn't apply if the helmet comes off as a result of a penalty. Tonight the helmet came off of a South Carolina WR after a high hit. The hit was penalized (correct call) and the WR was allowed to remain in the game. The penalty by the defense is what forced his helmet off, so he doesn't have to sit out a down. Here's the rule reference:

Rule 3‐3‐9 (FR‐51) New Article

Helmet Comes Off‐‐Timeout

ARTICLE 9.

a. If during the down a player’s helmet comes completely off, other than as the direct result

of a foul by an opponent, the player must leave the game for the next down. The game

clock will stop at the end of the down.

Further more, A player who's helmet comes off during the down that IS NOT the result of a penalty, MUST STOP participating in the down. If he continues to particpate its a 15 yard unsportsmanlike penalty. Likewise, if he stops participating as he is supposed to and he his hit by an opponent, it is a 15 yard personal foul penalty on the opponent.

Rule 9‐1‐17 (FR‐87) (New Article)

Continued Participation Without Helmet

ARTICLE 17.

A player whose helmet comes completely off during a down may not continue to participate in the

play beyond the immediate action in which he is engaged.

Not much to discuss besides that huge no-call PI you mean.

[WarTiger 3,923]

Tonights South Carolina/Vanderbilt game didn't really provide much to discuss, but there was one play that involved a rule change this year. That rule involves the helmet coming off of a player and that plaer leaving the game. The part that some may not realize is this doesn't apply if the helmet comes off as a result of a penalty. Tonight the helmet came off of a South Carolina WR after a high hit. The hit was penalized (correct call) and the WR was allowed to remain in the game. The penalty by the defense is what forced his helmet off, so he doesn't have to sit out a down. Here's the rule reference:

Rule 3‐3‐9 (FR‐51) New Article

Helmet Comes Off‐‐Timeout

ARTICLE 9.

a. If during the down a player’s helmet comes completely off, other than as the direct result

of a foul by an opponent, the player must leave the game for the next down. The game

clock will stop at the end of the down.

Further more, A player who's helmet comes off during the down that IS NOT the result of a penalty, MUST STOP participating in the down. If he continues to particpate its a 15 yard unsportsmanlike penalty. Likewise, if he stops participating as he is supposed to and he his hit by an opponent, it is a 15 yard personal foul penalty on the opponent.

Rule 9‐1‐17 (FR‐87) (New Article)

Continued Participation Without Helmet

ARTICLE 17.

A player whose helmet comes completely off during a down may not continue to participate in the

play beyond the immediate action in which he is engaged.

Not much to discuss besides that huge no-call PI you mean.

No, that's not what I mean. I mean what I said in my original post. YES, they missed the Pass Interference for sure, but this thread is about rule interpretations, not judgement calls. Everybody knows they missed that call.

[ToomersRevenge 284]

I know what you mean WarTiger, I was just venting.

[tigeraddikt 1,619]

I agree, thanks.

By the way, you cleared up a play that has been bothering me:

The player with the ball, can actually touch the ball to the field of play to maintain his balance provided he maintains possession. If in the process of putting his hand on the field, he loses possession, this is a FUMBLE. This destroys the myth that the ground cannot cause a fumble. The player is NOT down by rule, so the ground clearly caused the ball to become loose. Free ball.

I think it was in the SEC Championship game a while ago (Arky v Tenn), when the Arkansas QB was scrambling around, touched the ball on the ground, and it came out and was recovered by Tennessee. I was wondering why that was ruled a fumble, since clearly the ground caused it. Now I know.

Clint Stoerner in '98 vs. Tee Martin's Vols. Arky had that 1 in the bag, 'til Clint left the ball on the turf late in the 4th.

[GBAU83 212]

Question about reviews: Wisconsin-Michigan State last year. MSU throws deep pass, caught but initially ruled not in end zone. Then they review and overturn the call. What rule allowed then to review since it was not a touchdown and no penalty called? Also, Dyers run in the BCS championship, when he was not down and the play not stopped. What rule allowed that to be reviewed?

[WarTiger 3,923]

Question about reviews: Wisconsin-Michigan State last year. MSU throws deep pass, caught but initially ruled not in end zone. Then they review and overturn the call. What rule allowed then to review since it was not a touchdown and no penalty called? Also, Dyers run in the BCS championship, when he was not down and the play not stopped. What rule allowed that to be reviewed?

Good Question. There is a group of situations in the rule book that are deemed to be Reviewable plays. The Wisconsin/Michigan State play that you referred to involved a potential score so that makes it reviewable. The run in the BCS title game by Michael Dyer falls under the dead ball/loose ball provision. Keep in mind the replay process can be initiated by either a Heach Coah or the replay booth. A penalty being called has nothing to do with it. A penalty cannot be reversed by a review. Here's a list of what they can review:

SECTION 3. Reviewable Plays

Scoring Plays

ARTICLE 1. Reviewable plays involving a potential score include:

a. A potential touchdown or safety. [Exception: Safety by penalty for fouls

that are not specifically reviewable.]

b. Field goal attempts if and only if the ball is ruled (a) below or above the

crossbar or ( inside or outside the uprights when it is lower than the top

of the uprights. If the ball is higher than the top of the uprights as it crosses

the end line, the play may not be reviewed.

Passes

ARTICLE 2. Reviewable plays involving passes include:

a. Pass ruled complete, incomplete or intercepted anywhere in the field of play

or an end zone.

b. Forward pass touched by a player or an official.

FR-102 Rule 12 / Instant Replay

c. Forward pass or forward handing when a ball carrier is or has been beyond

the neutral zone.

d. A forward pass or forward handing after a change of team possession.

e. Pass ruled forward or backward when thrown from behind the neutral zone.

1. If the pass is ruled forward and is incomplete, the play is reviewable

only if there is clear recovery of a loose ball in the immediate continuing

action after the loose ball. If the replay official does not have indisputable

video evidence as to which team recovers, the ruling of incomplete pass

stands.

2. If the replay official reverses an incomplete forward pass ruling and the

ball is recovered, it belongs to the recovering team at the spot of the

recovery and any advance is nullified.

Dead Ball and Loose Ball

ARTICLE 3. Reviewable plays involving potential dead balls and loose balls

include:

a. Loose ball by a potential passer ruled a fumble.

b. Loose ball by a passer ruled incomplete forward pass when there is clear

recovery in the immediate continuing action after the loose ball.

1. If the replay official does not have indisputable video evidence as to

which team recovers, the ruling of incomplete pass stands.

2. If the replay official rules fumble, the ball belongs to the recovering

team at the spot of the recovery and any advance is nullified.

c. Live ball not ruled dead in possession of a ball carrier.

d. Loose ball ruled dead, or live ball ruled dead in possession of a ball carrier

when the clear recovery of a loose ball occurs in the immediate continuing

action.

1. If the ball is ruled dead and the replay official does not have indisputable

video evidence as to which team recovers, the dead-ball ruling stands.

2. If the replay official rules that the ball was not dead, it belongs to the

recovering team at the spot of the recovery and any advance is nullified.

e. Ball carrier’s forward progress with respect to a first down.

f. Catch or recovery of a fumble by a Team A player other than the fumbler

before any change of possession during fourth down or a try.

g. Ball carrier in or out of bounds. If a ball carrier is ruled out of bounds, the

play is not reviewable, except as in Rules 12-3-1-a and 12-3-3-d.

h. Catch, recovery or touching of a loose ball by a player potentially touching

a sideline or end line.

i. A loose ball touching on or beyond a sideline, goal line, or end line,

touching a pylon, or breaking the plane of a goal line.

Kicks

ARTICLE 4. Reviewable plays involving kicks include:

a. Touching of a kick.

b. Player beyond the neutral zone when kicking the ball.

Rule 12 / Instant Replay FR-103

c. Kicking team player advancing a ball after a potential muffed kick/fumble

by the receiving team.

d. Scrimmage kick crossing the neutral zone.

[WarTiger 3,923]

Here's a follow up and a good trivia question. Look at the pic below. This is the sweep play to the right side we ran saturday that lost 3-4 yards. But, the question is, looking at the picture, how many of the players on the line of scrimmage are eligible pass receivers? Is it 1, 2, or 3??

[ValleyTiger 2,894]

1, top of the picture silly me

ETA - 4, WR @ top of picture, offset TE, and 2 RBs

[WarTiger 3,923]

1, top of the picture silly me

ETA - 4, WR @ top of picture, offset TE, and 2 RBs

I'm surprised nobody else offered a comment on this one.

You were right the first time. The question was how many on the LINE OF SCRIMMAGE are eligible pass receivers. I made no mention of the backfield.