Just Like Canada!

[Tigermike 3,427]

Canadian citizens have used US private hospitals when their government run system has caused extreamly long wait times. Now the VA is planning the same thing.

VA approves more private care for veterans

By MATTHEW DALY

— May. 24, 2014 5:22 PM EDT

WASHINGTON (AP) — More veterans are being allowed to obtain health care at private hospitals and clinics in an effort to improve their treatment following allegations of falsified records and delays in treatment.

In a statement issued Saturday, Veterans Affairs Secretary Eric Shinseki also said VA facilities are enhancing capacity of their clinics so veterans can get care sooner. In cases where officials cannot expand capacity at VA centers, the Department of Veterans Affairs is "increasing the care we acquire in the community through non-VA care," Shinseki said.

Lawmakers from both parties have pressed for this policy change as the VA confronts allegations about treatment delays and falsified records at VA centers nationwide.

The department's inspector general says 26 VA facilities are under investigation, including the Phoenix VA hospital, where a former clinic director says as many as 40 veterans may have died will awaiting treatment.

Officials also are investigating claims that VA employees have falsified appointment records to cover up delays in care. An initial review of 17 people who died while awaiting appointments in Phoenix found that none of their deaths appeared to have been caused by delays in treatment.

The allegations have raised fresh concerns about the administration's management of a department that has been struggling to keep up with the influx of veterans returning home from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and Vietnam veterans needing more care as they age.

The directive announced Saturday should make it easier for veterans to get medical care at non-VA facilities, according to an agency spokeswoman.

The VA spent about $4.8 billion last year on medical care at non-VA hospitals and clinics, spokeswoman Victoria Dillon said. That amounts to about 10 percent of health care costs for the Veterans Health Administration, the agency's health care arm.

It was not clear how much the new initiative would cost, Dillon said.

Rep. Jeff Miller, R-Fla, chairman of the House Veterans' Affairs Committee, welcomed Shinseki's announcement, but questioned why it took so long. Reports about the veterans at the Phoenix hospital surfaced more than a month ago.

"It appears the department is finally starting to take concrete steps to address the problem," Miller said Saturday, calling the directive "a welcome change from the department's previous approach, which was to wait months for the results of yet another investigation into a problem we already know exists."

Miller has accused Shinseki and President Barack Obama of focusing on internal reviews while "overlooking VA's very real, very deadly and very well-documented delays-in-care problem."

Miller has pledged to introduce legislation that would give any veteran who is unable to obtain a VA appointment within 30 days the option to receive non-VA care at the department's expense.

Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., has called for the VA to allow more veterans to receive medical care at private hospitals. House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said this past week that she was open to the idea of medical care at private hospitals. She said it was unacceptable to have a backlog of patients waiting for permission to go to a federally qualified clinic.

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But at least some Vets will get the help they need.

[autigeremt 6,970]

But single payer is the best thing since the invention of the wheel!

[homersapien 11,812]

But single payer is the best thing since the invention of the wheel!

I think the subject is about who provides the services. The government will still be paying regardless.

[autigeremt 6,970]

But single payer is the best thing since the invention of the wheel!

I think the subject is about who provides the services. The government will still be paying regardless.

Regulation is part of provision. When you regulate, you provide the road map for delivery of patient care.

[homersapien 11,812]

But single payer is the best thing since the invention of the wheel!

I think the subject is about who provides the services. The government will still be paying regardless.

Regulation is part of provision. When you regulate, you provide the road map for delivery of patient care.

So do you want the government to pay for vet medical benefits or not?

If so, don't you think there needs to be a little regulation to ensure the payments are not wasted on someone perpetuating a fraud?

[Tigermike 3,427]

But single payer is the best thing since the invention of the wheel! :dunno:/>

I think the subject is about who provides the services. The government will still be paying regardless.

Regulation is part of provision. When you regulate, you provide the road map for delivery of patient care.

So do you want the government to pay for vet medical benefits or not?

If so, don't you think there needs to be a little regulation to ensure the payments are not wasted on someone perpetuating a fraud?

You say that like the federal government is really good at sniffing out fraud.

[homersapien 11,812]

But single payer is the best thing since the invention of the wheel! :dunno:/>

I think the subject is about who provides the services. The government will still be paying regardless.

Regulation is part of provision. When you regulate, you provide the road map for delivery of patient care.

So do you want the government to pay for vet medical benefits or not?

If so, don't you think there needs to be a little regulation to ensure the payments are not wasted on someone perpetuating a fraud?

You say that like the federal government is really good at sniffing out fraud.

So you don't think they should try?

I'll ask the same question of you: Do you think the Government should pay for veteran's medical benefits or not?

[icanthearyou 4,468]

But single payer is the best thing since the invention of the wheel! :dunno:/>

I think the subject is about who provides the services. The government will still be paying regardless.

Regulation is part of provision. When you regulate, you provide the road map for delivery of patient care.

So do you want the government to pay for vet medical benefits or not?

If so, don't you think there needs to be a little regulation to ensure the payments are not wasted on someone perpetuating a fraud?

You say that like the federal government is really good at sniffing out fraud.

The government is great at sniffing out fraud. Harry Reid has been flying around in the private jet of a doctor in Florida who billed Medicare for over $8,000.00/hour last year. I am sure this is a sting operation. I am sure the campaign contributions will be turned over to the government when Sen. Reid's investigation is over.

[Tigermike 3,427]

But single payer is the best thing since the invention of the wheel! :dunno:/>

I think the subject is about who provides the services. The government will still be paying regardless.

Regulation is part of provision. When you regulate, you provide the road map for delivery of patient care.

So do you want the government to pay for vet medical benefits or not?

If so, don't you think there needs to be a little regulation to ensure the payments are not wasted on someone perpetuating a fraud?

You say that like the federal government is really good at sniffing out fraud.

The government is great at sniffing out fraud. Harry Reid has been flying around in the private jet of a doctor in Florida who billed Medicare for over $8,000.00/hour last year. I am sure this is a sting operation. I am sure the campaign contributions will be turned over to the government when Sen. Reid's investigation is over.

Good one. Deep down I knew you could be funny.

[Tigermike 3,427]

But single payer is the best thing since the invention of the wheel! :dunno:/>

I think the subject is about who provides the services. The government will still be paying regardless.

Regulation is part of provision. When you regulate, you provide the road map for delivery of patient care.

So do you want the government to pay for vet medical benefits or not?

If so, don't you think there needs to be a little regulation to ensure the payments are not wasted on someone perpetuating a fraud?

You say that like the federal government is really good at sniffing out fraud.

So you don't think they should try?

I'll ask the same question of you: Do you think the Government should pay for veteran's medical benefits or not?

[Tigermike 3,427]

But single payer is the best thing since the invention of the wheel! :dunno:/>

I think the subject is about who provides the services. The government will still be paying regardless.

Regulation is part of provision. When you regulate, you provide the road map for delivery of patient care.

So do you want the government to pay for vet medical benefits or not?

If so, don't you think there needs to be a little regulation to ensure the payments are not wasted on someone perpetuating a fraud?

You say that like the federal government is really good at sniffing out fraud.

So you don't think they should try?

I'll ask the same question of you: Do you think the Government should pay for veteran's medical benefits or not?

I'm reading your post. Regulation will not stop or "ensure that payments are not wasted". Do you think the feds are good at identifying and eliminating waste and fraud. Personally I think they should do a much better job. But it seems that is expecting too much. And I've thought that for years.

[homersapien 11,812]

But single payer is the best thing since the invention of the wheel! :dunno:/>

I think the subject is about who provides the services. The government will still be paying regardless.

Regulation is part of provision. When you regulate, you provide the road map for delivery of patient care.

So do you want the government to pay for vet medical benefits or not?

If so, don't you think there needs to be a little regulation to ensure the payments are not wasted on someone perpetuating a fraud?

You say that like the federal government is really good at sniffing out fraud.

So you don't think they should try?

I'll ask the same question of you: Do you think the Government should pay for veteran's medical benefits or not?

I'm reading your post. Regulation will not stop or "ensure that payments are not wasted". Do you think the feds are good at identifying and eliminating waste and fraud. Personally I think they should do a much better job. But it seems that is expecting too much. And I've thought that for years.

Didn't answer my question. Do you think the government should pay for veterans medical benefits or not? A simple yes or no will suffice.

[Tigermike 3,427]

Do you stay up late thinking up dumbassed questions? It's their responsibility to pay it. It's their obligation to do it in a timely manner without covering up their many screw ups. I expect them to use use their budgeted money as if they wanted to get as much as they could for the money.

[Tigermike 3,427]

But single payer is the best thing since the invention of the wheel! :dunno:/>

I think the subject is about who provides the services. The government will still be paying regardless.

Regulation is part of provision. When you regulate, you provide the road map for delivery of patient care.

So do you want the government to pay for vet medical benefits or not?

If so, don't you think there needs to be a little regulation to ensure the payments are not wasted on someone perpetuating a fraud?

You say that like the federal government is really good at sniffing out fraud.

So you don't think they should try?

I'll ask the same question of you: Do you think the Government should pay for veteran's medical benefits or not?

I'm reading your post. Regulation will not stop or "ensure that payments are not wasted". Do you think the feds are good at identifying and eliminating waste and fraud. Personally I think they should do a much better job. But it seems that is expecting too much. And I've thought that for years.

Didn't answer my question. Do you think the government should pay for veterans medical benefits or not? A simple yes or no will suffice.

So since they are paying that makes everything A OK.

[homersapien 11,812]

Do you stay up late thinking up dumbassed questions? It's their responsibility to pay it. It's their obligation to do it in a timely manner without covering up their many screw ups. I expect them to use use their budgeted money as if they wanted to get as much as they could for the money.

Do you stay up late thinking of ways of evading simple questions?

[Tigermike 3,427]

Do you stay up late thinking up dumbassed questions? It's their responsibility to pay it. It's their obligation to do it in a timely manner without covering up their many screw ups. I expect them to use use their budgeted money as if they wanted to get as much as they could for the money.

Do you stay up late thinking of ways of evading simple questions?

Obviously you have a reading comprehension problem.

[homersapien 11,812]

But single payer is the best thing since the invention of the wheel! :dunno:/>

I think the subject is about who provides the services. The government will still be paying regardless.

Regulation is part of provision. When you regulate, you provide the road map for delivery of patient care.

So do you want the government to pay for vet medical benefits or not?

If so, don't you think there needs to be a little regulation to ensure the payments are not wasted on someone perpetuating a fraud?

You say that like the federal government is really good at sniffing out fraud.

So you don't think they should try?

I'll ask the same question of you: Do you think the Government should pay for veteran's medical benefits or not?

I'm reading your post. Regulation will not stop or "ensure that payments are not wasted". Do you think the feds are good at identifying and eliminating waste and fraud. Personally I think they should do a much better job. But it seems that is expecting too much. And I've thought that for years.

Didn't answer my question. Do you think the government should pay for veterans medical benefits or not? A simple yes or no will suffice.

So since they are paying that makes everything A OK.

What does that mean? What is "everything"?

The question on the table was the value of regulations which were posited as being typical of the government and generally bad.

Now it's become another exercise in watching weasels weasel. But that's typical when you guys make a mistake. Can't admit that, huh?

[Tigermike 3,427]

And you are the weasel that's weaseling.

[homersapien 11,812]

OK, you are right. Apparently if you stare into the weasel long enough, the weasel stares back.

I just don't see what's so poisonous about admitting something you presumably agree with:

Yes, it's right and appropriate for the U.S. Government to pay for the medical care for veterans.

What's the big deal that causes such prevarication?

[TheBlueVue 177]

OK, you are right. Apparently if you stare into the weasel long enough, the weasel stares back.

I just don't see what's so poisonous about admitting something you presumably agree with:

Yes, it's right and appropriate for the U.S. Government to pay for the medical care for veterans.

What's the big deal that causes such prevarication?

Paying for it is only the beginning. Actually delivering the care is where the disconnect is. Just goes to show..the budgeting process of allocating $150 billion to the VA w/o oversight isn't enough. Even with the VA being the 2nd highest funded federal agency behind only the DOD the fail here is epic. This admin is great at confiscatory tax policy designed to fund their pet projects then fail miserably administering the services the funds were provided for.. This is what single payer will look like if our system ever devolves to that. Gaming the system for personal gain netting poor delivery to those in need. 40+ veterans died waiting for service in Phoenix.

[TexasTiger 13,559]

But single payer is the best thing since the invention of the wheel! :dunno:/>

I think the subject is about who provides the services. The government will still be paying regardless.

Don't confuse them with facts. It rarely goes well.

[AUFAN78 4,061]

OK, you are right. Apparently if you stare into the weasel long enough, the weasel stares back.

I just don't see what's so poisonous about admitting something you presumably agree with:

Yes, it's right and appropriate for the U.S. Government to pay for the medical care for veterans.

What's the big deal that causes such prevarication?

Paying for it is only the beginning. Actually delivering the care is where the disconnect is. Just goes to show..the budgeting process of allocating $150 billion to the VA w/o oversight isn't enough. Even with the VA being the 2nd highest funded federal agency behind only the DOD the fail here is epic. This admin is great at confiscatory tax policy designed to fund their pet projects then fail miserably administering the services the funds were provided for.. This is what single payer will look like if our system ever devolves to that. Gaming the system for personal gain netting poor delivery to those in need. 40+ veterans died waiting for service in Phoenix.

Unfortunately, you are correct. The real story is treatment delays, fraudulent documents, the epic fail of this administration and the horrid treatment of American soldiers. It is a damn shame to see some deflect and only focus on trivial aspects.

[homersapien 11,812]

OK, you are right. Apparently if you stare into the weasel long enough, the weasel stares back.

I just don't see what's so poisonous about admitting something you presumably agree with:

Yes, it's right and appropriate for the U.S. Government to pay for the medical care for veterans.

What's the big deal that causes such prevarication?

Paying for it is only the beginning. Actually delivering the care is where the disconnect is. Just goes to show..the budgeting process of allocating $150 billion to the VA w/o oversight isn't enough. Even with the VA being the 2nd highest funded federal agency behind only the DOD the fail here is epic. This admin is great at confiscatory tax policy designed to fund their pet projects then fail miserably administering the services the funds were provided for.. This is what single payer will look like if our system ever devolves to that. Gaming the system for personal gain netting poor delivery to those in need. 40+ veterans died waiting for service in Phoenix.

First, the scenario under discussion here is for the services to be provided by the private sector, not by the government.

Secondly, your response has nothing to do with my post to TM.

You guys are so focused on trashing the government you can't keep on topic.

[autigeremt 6,970]

But single payer is the best thing since the invention of the wheel! :dunno:/>

I think the subject is about who provides the services. The government will still be paying regardless.

Don't confuse them with facts. It rarely goes well.

Good to know from a blind follower. jk

[TheBlueVue 177]

OK, you are right. Apparently if you stare into the weasel long enough, the weasel stares back.

I just don't see what's so poisonous about admitting something you presumably agree with:

Yes, it's right and appropriate for the U.S. Government to pay for the medical care for veterans.

What's the big deal that causes such prevarication?

Paying for it is only the beginning. Actually delivering the care is where the disconnect is. Just goes to show..the budgeting process of allocating $150 billion to the VA w/o oversight isn't enough. Even with the VA being the 2nd highest funded federal agency behind only the DOD the fail here is epic. This admin is great at confiscatory tax policy designed to fund their pet projects then fail miserably administering the services the funds were provided for.. This is what single payer will look like if our system ever devolves to that. Gaming the system for personal gain netting poor delivery to those in need. 40+ veterans died waiting for service in Phoenix.

First, the scenario under discussion here is for the services to be provided by the private sector, not by the government.

Secondly, your response has nothing to do with my post to TM.

You guys are so focused on trashing the government you can't keep on topic.

Currently very few services are provided to veterans via the private sector. If barry would use the pen he brags about so much he could change that in an instant. The thread title "Just like canada" which I took to be a comparison to single payer and the VA.

I do not believe single payer in America would ever be even near as good as Canada. Moreover as good as the Canadian system is continuously pawnwd off as being in here, I've seen interivews with Canadian citizens who complain they can get an appointment for their pet to get a cat scan faster than they can get one for themselves.

One thing being overlooked in this debate is the part of the problem that govt unions represent. Nobody can get fired, get their shift changed or their job description changed because of the union contract wont allow it. It would almost lead one to believe the VA is set up for them and not the veterans it is supposed to serve.

If the US ever goes single payer, essentially everyone in the medical services industry will become govt employees. Excuse me if I'm a bit cynical about how well that arrangement would work out for patients. My money would be on it devolving to the same kind of deceit, misrepresentation and ultimately comparably terrible patient services as the veterans are experiencing now. JMO.