my own take on our offensive scheme

[DyeCampAlum 335]

I'm not remotely qualified to assess an offensive system, just a fan who watches carefully. But I see so many generalizations here, I thought I'd start a direct discussion on the scheme -- not so much coaching, but that's got to be in there.

In short, here's what I'm gonna say: I think our problems have more to do with strategy than scheme. I'm leaving player development and execution aside.

I am not among those who think the scheme is outdated. It's a power, play-action scheme that works best with tempo and isn't built to absorb penalties. We've never been good when in obvious passing situations. The scheme involves lots of fake threats designed to confuse the defense, followed by power running concepts that go back to the single wing. None of that goes out of style. Having some zone read helps.

The coaches have also developed some trick plays that they call fairly regularly and with lots of success. The sneaky wheel route continues to be a thing. So does the Statue of Liberty fake reverse/play action.

To me, the obvious weaknesses of our scheme are that we don't seem to have lots of pass protection options built in for when we face elite rushers -- that, due to alignment and motion. And we don't have the kinds of sophisticated, layered passing routes that get you 8 yards when you need 7. I don't see why that's impossible. (Nor do I see why our TEs can't sneak into a route here and there.) I also think we could spread the defense more with WR positioning.

As a fan, five kinds of moments drive me crazy. All of these involve strategy rather than scheme.

1. when we abandon tempo by substituting. I know, teams have adjusted to tempo. But it's a whole different thing when they can substitute and call a sophisticated blitz or whatever.

2. when we run really far-fetched trick plays. We already have reverses, wheel routes, cross-field passing, and so forth built into the system.

3. when we run play action on 3rd and 8.

4. when our alignment tells the play in advance (example: we line up strong to one side and run the pitch sweep (they used to call it the quick pitch).

5. when we start drives so predictably.

What do y'all think?

[Auburntiger2012 1]

I agree with a lot of what you have seen.  Ultimately it seems very one sided. If we can run the ball with pettway the pass opens up (for sean only).  It has been years since I have seen our pass open up the run.  As a fan I sit here and question why a 3rd and long pass isn't as makable as it used to be.  Another one I would add to the list is the Chandler Cox wildcat.  It never works.  

[milehighfan 1,240]

I've seen Auburn facing third and six or seven and heard the commentators refer to it as third and long. To me third and long is eight yards or more.

[Sani-Freeze 552]

So true about the play action on third-and-forever. Drives me nuts. That RB should either be protecting or going out for a pass.

[1913-14 263]

I'm a coach but you are spot on with some of your assessment... it is strategy...not the overall scheme most times

 

[doc4aday 1,887]

GUS should call pass plays for at least the first 12-15 plays right out of the gate and then mix in some running plays here and there. This would have defenses scratching their head as to what is coming next. We all know that Gus would go over the edge if he had to do this. Just a thought and nothing more. 

[caleb1633 1,418]

One thing I think our coaches do that keeps them from going to the next level is that they get caught up in the plays themselves rather than the players that make them happen. They should look to create match up problems for the defense with our skill players and blockers rather than trying to get cute with the defense and fake them out. That's what great NFL OCs do. That's what Lane Kiffen does. None of it's fancy, but they just pit their strengths against the defense's weaknesses.

[80Tiger 904]

1 hour ago, caleb1633 said:

One thing I think our coaches do that keeps them from going to the next level is that they get caught up in the plays themselves rather than the players that make them happen. They should look to create match up problems for the defense with our skill players and blockers rather than trying to get cute with the defense and fake them out. That's what great NFL OCs do. That's what Lane Kiffen does. None of it's fancy, but they just pit their strengths against the defense's weaknesses.

While I agree I don't think our passing game has created to many mismatches due to player strengths over the years, but historically our run offense has done a good job of creating mismatches with the motion, the pulling of lineman and h back blocking. IMO it does create our strength vs their weakness, usually because we put more blockers at the point of attack than they have defenders. That is what the quick pitch thing does, huddle break with unbalance line and quick count before defense can shift and adjust.

[autigersj 122]

Looking at the offensive rankings per year sorted by rushing yards. I feel like it is fairly obvious that it has a huge barring on the Gus offense.

 

[aubaseball 2,701]

AU needs to pass the ball at least 30 times per game.    No matter the opponent.   This is what balanced teams do.   Pass on first down more, pass on hurry up mode and pass when the back up is in the game.    This will help when the team plays teams with good rush defense.  With cam, AU ran the zone read stretch play to perfection.    Not sure I have seen it since nick ran it a few times.   With AU 's offense, it needs to be a common play 

. 

[keesler 5,934]

2 hours ago, caleb1633 said:

One thing I think our coaches do that keeps them from going to the next level is that they get caught up in the plays themselves rather than the players that make them happen. They should look to create match up problems for the defense with our skill players and blockers rather than trying to get cute with the defense and fake them out. That's what great NFL OCs do. That's what Lane Kiffen does. None of it's fancy, but they just pit their strengths against the defense's weaknesses.

Leads one to believe our coaches aren't capable of developing a strategic design/game plan specific to our opponent.  Detect the opponents weakness and attack it ~ put the players and schemes in place to attack.

Gus' plan is too damn scripted and predictable, when an opponent watches film they can easily detect our tendencies. 

Gus & Staff are playing an ultra scripted checkers game, relaying every single move from the sidelines while some of our opponent's are scheming and playing Grand Master level chess with Bobby Fisher/Boris Spassky level talent both on the coaching staff and on the field. 

We definitely have room for improvement in this area.

[leglessdan 1,934]

The issue I have with Gus is he doesn't attack a defense. He runs HIS plays..the other team be damned. If his plays work we have success, if they don't...he don't know how to game plan an attack outside of his plays he's hellbent on running. Execution is a big factor, but Gus doesn't develop an alternative to attacking a defense. It drives me crazy to see so much talent at WR and a QB that is pretty damn accurate up to 25yds be shelved because Gus is determined to run the ball. If we somehow miraculously land Stidham, I sure as hell hope he OPENS up the passing game and let the run game feed off of it. That's the problem he doesn't evolve his game plan during games...he continually forces a square peg in a round hole.

[leglessdan 1,934]

11 hours ago, 80Tiger said:

While I agree I don't think our passing game has created to many mismatches due to player strengths over the years, but historically our run offense has done a good job of creating mismatches with the motion, the pulling of lineman and h back blocking. IMO it does create our strength vs their weakness, usually because we put more blockers at the point of attack than they have defenders. That is what the quick pitch thing does, huddle break with unbalance line and quick count before defense can shift and adjust.

That's great and all when it works...but when 90% of your offense is from the same thing...it's just a matter of time before teams figure it out. THEY HAVE...and Gus just keeps on running the same s*** every play until we punt or run our RBs out of games from exhaustion. 

[weagl1 1,790]

What kills me is the first down play after we pick up a first down and go up tempo.  It is the same play every time and it is not fooling anyone any more.  

[corchjay 5,311]

I love our offense.  However, I agree there needs to be more balance and especially on first down.  I don't know the numbers but I'm sure it's around 75% run on first down.  That should be a lot lower around 55-60 percent run on first down.  There is no reason we should play a game with 70 snaps and have less then 25 pass attempts.  We've had games where we have over 50 rushing attempts.  

[aubaseball 2,701]

To add to the rushing attempts, AU should never have a back with 30 carries a game.    Spread the wealth.   It will show future backs that you can come in and get some carries every year.    

[CCslim 56]

I want to know why we never pass to or TE's. Im 100% sure they are always wide open

[Tiger 8,835]

2 hours ago, CCslim said:

I want to know why we never pass to or TE's. Im 100% sure they are always wide open

So weird I had a dream last night where we threw a screen to Jalen Harris and he broke a tackle and took it like 35-40 yards for a TD.

 

 

I think I need to spend less time on this board.

[corchjay 5,311]

On 12/6/2016 at 6:57 AM, caleb1633 said:

One thing I think our coaches do that keeps them from going to the next level is that they get caught up in the plays themselves rather than the players that make them happen. They should look to create match up problems for the defense with our skill players and blockers rather than trying to get cute with the defense and fake them out. That's what great NFL OCs do. That's what Lane Kiffen does. None of it's fancy, but they just pit their strengths against the defense's weaknesses.

What makes you think that they don't do what you are suggesting?  I think the issue is they do to much of this, not at the player level, but at the scheme level.  This many in the box run this group of plays, this many on the strong side run from this group of plays... It's them doing it play by play not player by player in our offense its a numbers game.

Some of the best offensive coaches in college football history were "scheme" coaches.  Like Spurrier, he ran the "fun and gun", he had great athletes, but his offense was scheme based.  He ran a more generic route tree then Gus does however defensive coverages were much more general back then as well.  

[AURandy56 148]

Auburn had an offensive scheme?

[caleb1633 1,418]

10 hours ago, corchjay said:

What makes you think that they don't do what you are suggesting?  I think the issue is they do to much of this, not at the player level, but at the scheme level.  This many in the box run this group of plays, this many on the strong side run from this group of plays... It's them doing it play by play not player by player in our offense its a numbers game.

Some of the best offensive coaches in college football history were "scheme" coaches.  Like Spurrier, he ran the "fun and gun", he had great athletes, but his offense was scheme based.  He ran a more generic route tree then Gus does however defensive coverages were much more general back then as well.  

Actually one thing Spurrier excelled at was finding weaknesses in a defense and just eating at it. For instance, Auburn vs South Carolina in 2006: he ate one of our DBs (Gilbert I believe) alive on the crossing route over and over again that game. 

[Farmer Brown 2,391]

On 12/6/2016 at 7:45 PM, leglessdan said:

The issue I have with Gus is he doesn't attack a defense. He runs HIS plays..the other team be damned. If his plays work we have success, if they don't...he don't know how to game plan an attack outside of his plays he's hellbent on running. Execution is a big factor, but Gus doesn't develop an alternative to attacking a defense. It drives me crazy to see so much talent at WR and a QB that is pretty damn accurate up to 25yds be shelved because Gus is determined to run the ball. If we somehow miraculously land Stidham, I sure as hell hope he OPENS up the passing game and let the run game feed off of it. That's the problem he doesn't evolve his game plan during games...he continually forces a square peg in a round hole.

This ^^^^, is my observation from my recliner. His scripted plays overwhelm average competition. The dreaded third quarter lull, is nothing more than opposing defenses making adjustments to what Gus is trying to do, and he doesn't have the ability to readjust to what they are doing. His so-called stubborness, is inability to readjust as the game goes on. He isn't a genius and he is over paid. I will be glad when he is gone. Nutsburg!