CNN’s Brianna Keilar Goes on 5-Minute Tear Against Democrats Ignoring Their Own Covid Guidelines

[I_M4_AU 7,827]

13 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Sorry, But I don't understand the your logic.

Biden will be the President and is *asking* everyone to wear a mask.  He can’t mandate this as it is unconstitutional, so a politician is *asking* people to wear a mask which would be a political request.  Each Governor can mandate mask wearing for their state, not the President for everyone.

17 minutes ago, homersapien said:

There is no reason Biden would suggest his request to wear masks is what really curbed the pandemic after the vaccine is available.  In fact that's crazy hypothesis.

If you believe this, why would Biden request people wear a mask in his first 100 days if the vaccine has been distributed for a month or so?  The answer, of course, is it is a political statement.

21 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Regarding vaccination,  just wait.  I expect the willingness to get vaccinated will also generally split along political lines. (Science bad!)

There are anti-vaxxers on both sides of the political aisle, Kamala Harris is one of them as she has said she wouldn’t take a Trump vaccine.

[homersapien 11,373]

On 12/4/2020 at 12:57 PM, I_M4_AU said:

Biden will be the President and is *asking* everyone to wear a mask.  He can’t mandate this as it is unconstitutional, so a politician is *asking* people to wear a mask which would be a political request.  Each Governor can mandate mask wearing for their state, not the President for everyone.

How is that a "political" request??? 

It's a common sense, reality-based request.  It has nothing to do with politics. For that matter, whether or not a governor "mandates" or "requests" mask wearing has nothing to do with politics.  The legal power to do so has nothing to do with politics.

 

Quote

If you believe this, why would Biden request people wear a mask in his first 100 days if the vaccine has been distributed for a month or so?  The answer, of course, is it is a political statement.

Nonsense.  Mask wearing will still be a critically important way to control the rate of infection for many months after vaccine distribution starts .  I will a long time before enough people have received the vaccine to make mask wearing moot - far, far longer than 100 days. 

There will be hundreds of thousand infections occurring after the vaccine distribution has started and mask wearing will remain a critical way to limit infections and death.

There's lots of information out there on vaccine distribution.  I suggest you look it up.

Here's a PBS segment from last night:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/healthcare-workers-nursing-homes-should-get-covid-19-vaccine-earlier-cdc-panel-says    

(video)   excerpts from transcript:

.....The advisory committee said today that about 24 million people, health care personnel and older Americans living in nursing homes and other facilities, should receive the first doses of a vaccine.

But even distributing those early doses will take more time than many people think. CDC officials say, initially, there will only be enough doses to vaccinate between two and five million people a week. Determining who gets priority after that initial wave is even more complicated.

Now, this all comes as nearly 37,000 Americans died of COVID-19 last month. That's the most in any month since the early days of the pandemic.

For more on all of this, I'm joined by Dr. Paul Offit. He is a member of an FDA advisory committee on vaccines. He is also director of the Vaccine Education Center at the Children's Hospital

• of Philadelphia.

  Dr. Offit, welcome back to the "NewsHour."

  When we look at the 24 million people who have now been given the highest priority, that's still a lot of people. And they can't be vaccinated all at once.

  So, even within that group, how do you decide who gets it first? And who makes that call?

• Paul Offit:

  It's going to be hard.

  I know, at our hospital, we're trying to prioritize among the health care workers which health care workers are most at risk, and those who are — for example, in the emergency department, who are constantly coming into contact with children who potentially are excreting this virus. So, I think it's going to be really a challenge.

  I think the hardest part of all this is that, initially, we have about 40 million doses that are going to be available, which is 20 million people of the 24 million in just the first group. And we still have to go to the second group and third group before we ever get to the general population.

  And remember that we're not quite there yet. We're still sort of in the science-by-press-release moment here. These phase three trials, these large trials by Pfizer and Moderna haven't been published yet. So, the FDA advisory committee needs to approve this. The advisory committee to the CDC needs to approve this.

  I think that's all going to happen in the month of December, in all likelihood, and then these vaccines will start rolling out. But what's hardest about this is that, obviously, I mean, here's a virus that has killed more than 260,000 people this year. These next couple months are going to be awful.

  And you wish you had enough vaccine to vaccinate everybody, but we don't. It's going to be a limited edition vaccine initially. And I think that's going to make it very valuable.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Well, let's talk about the next potential group after that.

  We have this initial set of guidance from the advisory committee, but people talk a lot about essential workers, anyone who's classified that way by their state or municipality. And a lot of people don't realize you're talking about many millions of more people; 87 million Americans qualify as essential workers.

  And that includes a whole host of different roles, police and firefighters, education workers, food service and agriculture workers, transportation and waste workers.

  Dr. Offit, when you look at that next potential tranche of people, 87 million more, two to five million doses a week, how long are we talking about it will take just to get through these highest priority groups?

• Paul Offit:

  Well, the hardest part is making the vaccine, getting it out there, and making sure that people are getting a two-dose vaccine, meaning you get the first dose. Then you have to come — make sure you come back three weeks later to get that second dose.

  And one of the vaccines has sort of difficult storage and handling, in that it has to be shipped and stored at minus-70 degrees Centigrade, which means dry ice. It then can go in the refrigerator for only a day or two. And then, once it's reconstituted, you only have about six hours to give it, and it comes in multidose vials.

  So, there's going to be a lot of challenges here for this — for this needed product. I mean, this is, I think, our way out of this mess. This is the product that I think can save our lives. You just wish you had enough of it all at the beginning. We don't.

• Amna Nawaz:

  You are mentioning the challenges. And one of those is trust in this vaccine.

  When you look at some of the latest numbers in terms of whether or not American adults even trust the vaccine and say that they will get it, Gallup conducted a recent poll at the end of October. It was asking people about it.

  And 58 percent of those polled said they're willing to get the vaccine. That number is up slightly from September numbers. But, still, Dr. Offit, 42 percent of American adults say they would not get the vaccine. That's a significant number of people you're talking about. How much of a challenge is that, when you're talking about getting to that light at the end of the pandemic tunnel?

• Paul Offit:

  Right.

  So, that poll was conducted in October. So, really, what they were asking is, would you get a theoretical COVID-19 vaccine, because the vaccine wasn't in existence yet.

  I mean, now we know more of the details of the vaccine. We know, at least from the top-line data, that it appears to be 95 percent effective, which is remarkable, that it appears to be as effective in people over 60, that it appears to be 90 to 100 percent effective in preventing severe disease. I think, when you ask people the question that way, then how will they answer?

  And, remember, these trials, the Pfizer trial is a 44,000-person trial. The Moderna trial is a 30,000-person trial. That's as big as any vaccine trial. That's as big as any pediatric vaccine trial. The only difference — really, the only difference is that the length of time in which you're seeing effectiveness is relatively short.

  You can only say it's effective for a few months. You can't say necessarily it's going to be highly effective six months later, or a year later, or two years later.

  On the other hand, you're not going to do two-or-three-year trials with these vaccines, when a quarter-of-a-million people are dying a year. So — and I think it's not exactly a leap to believe that, if something's 95 percent effective after two or three months, it's likely to be highly effective six months or a year later.

• Amna Nawaz:

  Very briefly, Dr. Offit, before I let you go, in just a few seconds, how many people are we looking at need to be vaccinated, need to get this vaccine before we can consider ourselves at a safe level of immunity?

• Paul Offit:

  I would imagine about two-thirds of the American population would need to be vaccinated before we can say comfortably that we have stopped the spread of this virus.

Bottom line, I am personally hoping I can get the vaccination before my birthday in March, when I turn 70.  But IMO, it's "iffy".

Biden was absolutely correct in asking people to wear masks.  Vaccine distribution or politics have nothing to do with it.

 

 

 

Quote

There are anti-vaxxers on both sides of the political aisle, Kamala Harris is one of them as she has said she wouldn’t take a Trump vaccine.

Didn't say there weren't anti-vaxxers on both sides.   I said they will be skewed toward MAGAs for all the obvious reasons - namely their proclivity to reject science and accept conspiracy theories.

As for Kamala Harris, I think she said that in the context of Trump trying to short-circuit the approval process.  I will bet you $100 dollars right now that she takes it as soon as the FDA releases it.

[I_M4_AU 7,827]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

It's a common sense, reality-based request.  It has nothing to do with politics. For that matter, whether or not a governor "mandates" or "requests" mask wearing has nothing to do with politics.  The legal power to do so has nothing to do with politics.

It seems most blue state run governments are mandating, requesting mask wearing as opposed to red state governments advising the mask wearing can limit the spread of the virus.  Seems political to me.  I’m sure we won’t agree on this point.

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

Mask wearing will still be a critically important way to control the rate of infection for many months after vaccine distribution starts .  I will a long time before enough people have received the vaccine to make mask wearing moot - far, far longer than 100 days. 

I wonder if the people that have recently had the virus and are immune from catching it again, for a period of time, are going to be weeded out from getting the vaccine as they do not need it until later?  That one thing can stretch the existing doses out to reach many more people.  I would guess they don’t do this as it would complicate matters and governments like the one size fits all approach.

If you add the people that don’t want to take the vaccine (42%) those doses go a lot further. Those are just poll numbers and may not reflect the people’s thoughts right now, but there is no other data to rely on.

There are studies out that suggest grade school children do not spread the virus like adults, this would be another group that could wait for the vaccine.  https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/kids-school-and-covid-19-what-we-know-and-what-we-don-t

Given the panic that has been caused over the last 10 months, I could see the demand for the vaccine very high and, just like the toilet paper crisis, the need for self preservation will out weigh common sense.

I hope you get your vaccine in March

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

I said they will be skewed toward MAGAs for all the obvious reasons - namely their proclivity to reject science and accept conspiracy theories.

One of the biggest Trump haters on the planet is an anti-vaxxer namely Robert De Niro. It has been my experience that conspiracy theories, just like anti-vaxxers, come from both sides of the political spectrum (Chemtrail).

Kamala will get vaccinated if she wants to be anywhere near Biden.

[DKW 86 7,423]

Watched the NBC Special Last nite with Lester Holt talking about how the vaccines will roll out, etc. 

Today on FB, actually had people wanting the Fed Govt to hold back on the vaccines until well after 1-20-21 rather than give the Trump Administration credit for getting the vaccines going.
KID.YOU.NOT. 

[ShocksMyBrain 9,364]

20 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Watched the NBC Special Last nite with Lester Holt talking about how the vaccines will roll out, etc. 

Today on FB, actually had people wanting the Fed Govt to hold back on the vaccines until well after 1-20-21 rather than give the Trump Administration credit for getting the vaccines going.
KID.YOU.NOT. 

People also said that the virus would magically disappear after the election. 

[DKW 86 7,423]

Just now, ShocksMyBrain said:

People also said that the virus would magically disappear after the election. 

And yet it came back and kicked our asses again...

[ShocksMyBrain 9,364]

Just now, DKW 86 said:

And yet it came back and kicked our asses again...

2 deaths a minute now. Pretty s***ty. 

[homersapien 11,373]

5 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

It seems most blue state run governments are mandating, requesting mask wearing as opposed to red state governments advising the mask wearing can limit the spread of the virus.  Seems political to me.  I’m sure we won’t agree on this point.

I wonder if the people that have recently had the virus and are immune from catching it again, for a period of time, are going to be weeded out from getting the vaccine as they do not need it until later?  That one thing can stretch the existing doses out to reach many more people.  I would guess they don’t do this as it would complicate matters and governments like the one size fits all approach.

If you add the people that don’t want to take the vaccine (42%) those doses go a lot further. Those are just poll numbers and may not reflect the people’s thoughts right now, but there is no other data to rely on.

There are studies out that suggest grade school children do not spread the virus like adults, this would be another group that could wait for the vaccine.  https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/kids-school-and-covid-19-what-we-know-and-what-we-don-t

Given the panic that has been caused over the last 10 months, I could see the demand for the vaccine very high and, just like the toilet paper crisis, the need for self preservation will out weigh common sense.

I hope you get your vaccine in March

One of the biggest Trump haters on the planet is an anti-vaxxer namely Robert De Niro. It has been my experience that conspiracy theories, just like anti-vaxxers, come from both sides of the political spectrum (Chemtrail).

Kamala will get vaccinated if she wants to be anywhere near Biden.

Care to re-state your premise of this particular debate?

We seem to be wandering aimlessly.

 

 

[alexava 6,973]

4 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Watched the NBC Special Last nite with Lester Holt talking about how the vaccines will roll out, etc. 

Today on FB, actually had people wanting the Fed Govt to hold back on the vaccines until well after 1-20-21 rather than give the Trump Administration credit for getting the vaccines going.
KID.YOU.NOT. 

I’ll wait much longer than that and don’t care who gets credit. I aint a lab rat. 

[TitanTiger 20,482]

I’ll be getting it as soon as it’s available for me. Might be a few months since they’ll prioritize health care workers and nursing homes and such.  But I’m ready for normal again. 

[DKW 86 7,423]

10 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

I’ll be getting it as soon as it’s available for me. Might be a few months since they’ll prioritize health care workers and nursing homes and such.  But I’m ready for normal again. 

Ditto. I am so ready to get back to normal.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

Just now, DKW 86 said:

Ditto. I am so ready to get back to normal.

I’ll just let y’all try it out first before I give it a go. I’ve seen what our federal agencies are capable of messing up (relying mostly on self qualification by the companies.) As @alexava (I think) said “I ain’t no lab rat.”

[SLAG-91 1,483]

Yeah, given that I'm only 51, not prone to getting sick and in pretty good health overall, I'll definitely be waiting. I've gotten flu shots maybe 3-4 times since I was a teenager, for reference.

I'll likely get a shingles shot sooner, left to my own devices...that stuff is miserable. Getting chicken pox at age 22 sucked bad enough...woof.

I'm never an early adopter of anything...technology, vaccines, whatever. Those more in need obviously go to the front of the line, and I'll observe.

[DKW 86 7,423]

1 hour ago, SLAG-91 said:

Yeah, given that I'm only 51, not prone to getting sick and in pretty good health overall, I'll definitely be waiting. I've gotten flu shots maybe 3-4 times since I was a teenager, for reference.

I'll likely get a shingles shot sooner, left to my own devices...that stuff is miserable. Getting chicken pox at age 22 sucked bad enough...woof.

I'm never an early adopter of anything...technology, vaccines, whatever. Those more in need obviously go to the front of the line, and I'll observe.

Had Chucken Pox at 38

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

11 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

I’ll be getting it as soon as it’s available for me. Might be a few months since they’ll prioritize health care workers and nursing homes and such.  But I’m ready for normal again. 

Right there with you.  Also live with an immuno-compromised wife and my work travel is beginning to slowly pick up.  I'll definitely be taking it ASAP.

[I_M4_AU 7,827]

12 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Ditto. I am so ready to get back to normal.

Normal will be relative.  Airlines may require proof of vaccination before travel (or a negative test that is only good at the time you take it) and other industries could do the same.  A live concert/sports event may do the same.  A lot of adjusting to do in the next six months or so.

[homersapien 11,373]

On 12/4/2020 at 3:31 PM, I_M4_AU said:

One of the biggest Trump haters on the planet is an anti-vaxxer namely Robert De Niro. It has been my experience that conspiracy theories, just like anti-vaxxers, come from both sides of the political spectrum (Chemtrail).

 

I don't think Robert De Nero is enough to skew anti-vaxxers toward Democrats.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/09/17/nearly-half-of-all-americans-including-most-republicans-say-they-would-not-get-covid-19-vaccine/?sh=54faf7884d77

Nearly Half Of All Americans, Including Most Republicans, Say They Would Not Get Covid-19 Vaccine

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/12/04/price-republicans-war-reality-vaccine-denial/

The price of Republicans’ war on reality: Vaccine denial

Opinion by

Jennifer Rubin

Columnist

Dec. 4, 2020

 

Imagine getting tossed overboard in the middle of the ocean, but refusing to grab on to a lifeline because you choose not to “believe” in the ocean. That is essentially what large numbers of Americans are telling pollsters. The Pew Research Center reports: “Overall, 60% of Americans say they would definitely or probably get a vaccine for the coronavirus, if one were available today, up from 51% who said this in September.” However, there is a “19-point gap between the shares of Democrats and those who lean to the Democratic Party (69%) and Republicans and Republican leaners (50%) who currently say they would get vaccinated for the coronavirus.”

As one might expect, people who think they are not at risk and who are skeptical of the vaccine-development process are far less likely to get a vaccination. Because only 37 percent of Republicans and Republican leaners are “very" or “somewhat” concerned about getting a serious case of covid-19 (compared to 66 percent of Democrats and Democratic leaners), they are heavily overrepresented in the group not inclined to get vaccinated.

Most stunning, with roughly 200,000 new cases a day and close to 3,000 deaths per day, only 43 percent of Republicans and Republican leaners think covid-19 is a major public health threat (84 percent of Democrats and those leaning Democrat say the same).

Now, before we take polling as infallible, we should acknowledge that some Republicans may be dismissing covid-19 and downplaying the need for vaccinations when speaking to pollsters out of some misbegotten tribal loyalty to President Trump and the MAGA covid-deniers. But that only highlights the problem.

If Trump was greatly successful in dealing with covid-19, as the president and others often claim, the disease cannot be a major risk. If Trump was correct that masks and stay-at-home orders are akin to tyranny, then covid-19 cannot be much of a threat, right? No one should be all that surprised by these poll numbers. Tribal identification for those belonging to a party that lives in an alternate reality, rejects science and defines political loyalty as willingness to “own the libs" means you must be willing to put yourself in danger to avoid cognitive dissonance. Denial, conspiracies and flat-out lying replace reason — or even the instinct for self-preservation.

You can, therefore, understand the difficulty of getting such Republicans to accept more remote threats (e.g., climate change) and political results that undermine their faith in Trump. If the MAGA crowd can be convinced that covid-19 is not a big deal despite mass casualties, they will surely cling to the notion that elections do not matter and should be overturned if they do not go their way. And that, in turn, poses a dilemma for Republican politicians such as Sens. David Perdue and Kelly Loeffler of Georgia, who need to keep one foot in the real world (the election isn’t rigged, you need to vote) and one foot in the Trump bubble (the election was rigged, there’s no point to voting).

Republicans who think enabling Trump’s lies and self-delusions is harmless should think again. They are systematically destroying their followers’ rational, sometimes lifesaving capacity to make decisions. That may result in even higher death tolls, not to mention further erosion of their adherence to democratic elections. Republican voters are drowning in MAGA propaganda. The response from cowed Republicans is to keep throwing them anvils. This will not end well.

 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

6 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I don't think Robert De Nero is enough to skew anti-vaxxers toward Democrats.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/09/17/nearly-half-of-all-americans-including-most-republicans-say-they-would-not-get-covid-19-vaccine/?sh=54faf7884d77

Nearly Half Of All Americans, Including Most Republicans, Say They Would Not Get Covid-19 Vaccine

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/12/04/price-republicans-war-reality-vaccine-denial/

The price of Republicans’ war on reality: Vaccine denial

Opinion by

Jennifer Rubin

Columnist

Dec. 4, 2020

 

Imagine getting tossed overboard in the middle of the ocean, but refusing to grab on to a lifeline because you choose not to “believe” in the ocean. That is essentially what large numbers of Americans are telling pollsters. The Pew Research Center reports: “Overall, 60% of Americans say they would definitely or probably get a vaccine for the coronavirus, if one were available today, up from 51% who said this in September.” However, there is a “19-point gap between the shares of Democrats and those who lean to the Democratic Party (69%) and Republicans and Republican leaners (50%) who currently say they would get vaccinated for the coronavirus.”

As one might expect, people who think they are not at risk and who are skeptical of the vaccine-development process are far less likely to get a vaccination. Because only 37 percent of Republicans and Republican leaners are “very" or “somewhat” concerned about getting a serious case of covid-19 (compared to 66 percent of Democrats and Democratic leaners), they are heavily overrepresented in the group not inclined to get vaccinated.

Most stunning, with roughly 200,000 new cases a day and close to 3,000 deaths per day, only 43 percent of Republicans and Republican leaners think covid-19 is a major public health threat (84 percent of Democrats and those leaning Democrat say the same).

Now, before we take polling as infallible, we should acknowledge that some Republicans may be dismissing covid-19 and downplaying the need for vaccinations when speaking to pollsters out of some misbegotten tribal loyalty to President Trump and the MAGA covid-deniers. But that only highlights the problem.

If Trump was greatly successful in dealing with covid-19, as the president and others often claim, the disease cannot be a major risk. If Trump was correct that masks and stay-at-home orders are akin to tyranny, then covid-19 cannot be much of a threat, right? No one should be all that surprised by these poll numbers. Tribal identification for those belonging to a party that lives in an alternate reality, rejects science and defines political loyalty as willingness to “own the libs" means you must be willing to put yourself in danger to avoid cognitive dissonance. Denial, conspiracies and flat-out lying replace reason — or even the instinct for self-preservation.

You can, therefore, understand the difficulty of getting such Republicans to accept more remote threats (e.g., climate change) and political results that undermine their faith in Trump. If the MAGA crowd can be convinced that covid-19 is not a big deal despite mass casualties, they will surely cling to the notion that elections do not matter and should be overturned if they do not go their way. And that, in turn, poses a dilemma for Republican politicians such as Sens. David Perdue and Kelly Loeffler of Georgia, who need to keep one foot in the real world (the election isn’t rigged, you need to vote) and one foot in the Trump bubble (the election was rigged, there’s no point to voting).

Republicans who think enabling Trump’s lies and self-delusions is harmless should think again. They are systematically destroying their followers’ rational, sometimes lifesaving capacity to make decisions. That may result in even higher death tolls, not to mention further erosion of their adherence to democratic elections. Republican voters are drowning in MAGA propaganda. The response from cowed Republicans is to keep throwing them anvils. This will not end well.

 

Like I said before, I’ll let others try it out first then I’ll see how that pans out. Then I’ll try it out if people don’t go blind or lose a limb. 🤷‍♂️😂

[homersapien 11,373]

7 hours ago, SLAG-91 said:

Yeah, given that I'm only 51, not prone to getting sick and in pretty good health overall, I'll definitely be waiting. I've gotten flu shots maybe 3-4 times since I was a teenager, for reference.

I'll likely get a shingles shot sooner, left to my own devices...that stuff is miserable. Getting chicken pox at age 22 sucked bad enough...woof.

I'm never an early adopter of anything...technology, vaccines, whatever. Those more in need obviously go to the front of the line, and I'll observe.

I'll bet you've never had a bad case of the flu. 

At your age, I had a similar lackadaisical feeling about flu shots.  But just one severe case - while I was away from home - changed that.  Now I get every vaccination available - flu, shingles, pneumonia, diphtheria/tetanus/pertussis (DTaP).  

[homersapien 11,373]

1 minute ago, wdefromtx said:

Like I said before, I’ll let others try it out first then I’ll see how that pans out. Then I’ll try it out if people don’t go blind or lose a limb. 🤷‍♂️😂

Thanks for helping to make my case!   

[homersapien 11,373]

23 hours ago, ShocksMyBrain said:

People also said that the virus would magically disappear after the election. 

That wasn't "people" it was Trump.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

6 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Thanks for helping to make my case!   

Has nothing to do with Trump. I don’t trust the FDA much more than the FAA and haven’t for awhile. 
 

FAA lost all credibility with the rest of the world’s aviation authorities. 

[homersapien 11,373]

Just now, wdefromtx said:

Has nothing to do with Trump. I don’t trust the FDA much more than the FAA and haven’t for awhile. 

OK, I'll expand my classification from simply "Trump supporters" and change it to people who are generally anti-science and pro-conspiracy.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

2 minutes ago, homersapien said:

OK, I'll expand my classification from simply "Trump supporters" and change it to people who are generally anti-science and pro-conspiracy.

You must be talking about yourself....or haven’t followed the FAA or FDA any. 

[homersapien 11,373]

2 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

You must be talking about yourself....or haven’t followed the FAA or FDA any. 

I wouldn't eliminate the role of either.