Schwartz

[PoetTiger 1,896]

21 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

Me: AS is an incredible athlete but not a true WR, needs work for the NFL.

Cole: We haven't seen enough of him to know. 

I'm sure we both agree we'd love him to come back.

If he was in Bama WR system he would look a whole lot better. I can not judge him fully because he has been stuck in Gus’s mediocre passing system. I fully believe if he was in a more sophisticated system we would not be having this discussion. 

[johnnyAU 3,630]

4 minutes ago, PoetTiger said:

If he was in Bama WR system he would look a whole lot better. I can not judge him fully because he has been stuck in Gus’s mediocre passing system. I fully believe if he was in a more sophisticated system we would not be having this discussion. 

And we could say that about a lot of former Auburn WR's unfortunately.

[metafour 4,969]

21 hours ago, AUght2win said:

A true WR is technically sound and consistently catches low probability balls. 

You don't go to the NFL for making routine, wide open catches. It's impossible to do that at that level. NFL wideouts get paid to make catches on bad or contested balls. 

If anything, Bo's inaccuracy should give him MORE chances at highlight reel catches lol.

This is ass-backwards logic.

The most important skills for a QB in the NFL are accuracy, ball placement, and TIMING on routes. If a QB can't display those traits consistently, they either don't get a shot, or they don't last very long. You're talking as if the NFL is a game wherein the QB's are just blindly chucking the ball around and all these "complete receivers" are making highlight reel catches on every throw. It's actually the complete opposite of that. What you are describing was actually the "system" at Auburn under Malzahn, and its why playing WR in this offense has been so frustrating. You have a bunch of guys who only get to run a limited number of routes - which the defense can read because we're so predictable - and on top of that, poor coaching at the QB position means that they're not even receiving CONSISTENCY on those throws. 

Deducing what a receiver can or can't do has been pretty pointless, because the entire situation from top to bottom has been broken. What I do find interesting is that the receivers themselves seem to take 90% of blame for everything - no wonder these guys all want to run off as fast as they can, even if it means being a 5th round pick. All of these guys have their work cut out for them because they aren't being prepared properly; but the mistake you're making is assuming that that the NFL expects every receiver to be some Madden build-a-character which is complete BS. There are all sorts of UNIQUE players in the NFL whose talents are utilized properly. A "complete receiver" means being able to run routes, create an appropriate amount of separation, and catch the ball. It does NOT mean being able to jump over defenders, catch the ball one handed, and also play like a RB with the ball in your hands, and also be able to sprint 60 yards downfield like Usain Bolt. You're describing a Unicorn there. Some of the s*** you guys bring up is just absurd: 6'4 Seth Williams doesn't run like Anthony Schwartz and 6'0 Anthony Schwartz isn't making highlight reel jump-ball receptions in the corner of the endzone like Seth Williams....so therefore neither is a "complete receiver" LMAO?

The ONLY conclusion is that these receivers have all been stunted in one way or another. This means that they have their work cut out for them because they are underprepared. It ALSO means that passing judgement on what they supposedly can or can't do is foolish. 

 

 

[keesler 5,924]

8 minutes ago, johnnyAU said:

And we could say that about a lot of former Auburn WR's unfortunately.

Well, stick 'im behind an NFL ready oline, give him a Heisman candidate QB/RB and a few top shelf TE's and he'd look just like the rest of bama's WR's.  

AU's oline has been deficient for years, WR's pigeon-holed for years and the scheme has been stale for years.  Add in a 2nd yr QB that has shown miniscule improvement, lacks some fundamentals, has accuracy issues at times and needs work.

Here's to Harsin turning over a new leaf and bringing real change across the board. 🍻

 

[alexava 6,973]

6 minutes ago, keesler said:

Well, stick 'im behind an NFL ready oline, give him a Heisman candidate QB/RB and a few top shelf TE's and he'd look just like the rest of bama's WR's.  

AU's oline has been deficient for years, WR's pigeon-holed for years and the scheme has been stale for years.  Add in a 2nd yr QB that has shown miniscule improvement, lacks some fundamentals, has accuracy issues at times and needs work.

Here's to Harsin turning over a new leaf and bringing real change across the board. 🍻

 

Offensive line recruiting, retaining, development will go a long way to get this turned around. 
 

[AUght2win 6,836]

53 minutes ago, metafour said:

This is ass-backwards logic.

The most important skills for a QB in the NFL are accuracy, ball placement, and TIMING on routes. If a QB can't display those traits consistently, they either don't get a shot, or they don't last very long. You're talking as if the NFL is a game wherein the QB's are just blindly chucking the ball around and all these "complete receivers" are making highlight reel catches on every throw. It's actually the complete opposite of that. What you are describing was actually the "system" at Auburn under Malzahn, and its why playing WR in this offense has been so frustrating. You have a bunch of guys who only get to run a limited number of routes - which the defense can read because we're so predictable - and on top of that, poor coaching at the QB position means that they're not even receiving CONSISTENCY on those throws. 

Deducing what a receiver can or can't do has been pretty pointless, because the entire situation from top to bottom has been broken. What I do find interesting is that the receivers themselves seem to take 90% of blame for everything - no wonder these guys all want to run off as fast as they can, even if it means being a 5th round pick. All of these guys have their work cut out for them because they aren't being prepared properly; but the mistake you're making is assuming that that the NFL expects every receiver to be some Madden build-a-character which is complete BS. There are all sorts of UNIQUE players in the NFL whose talents are utilized properly. A "complete receiver" means being able to run routes, create an appropriate amount of separation, and catch the ball. It does NOT mean being able to jump over defenders, catch the ball one handed, and also play like a RB with the ball in your hands, and also be able to sprint 60 yards downfield like Usain Bolt. You're describing a Unicorn there. Some of the s*** you guys bring up is just absurd: 6'4 Seth Williams doesn't run like Anthony Schwartz and 6'0 Anthony Schwartz isn't making highlight reel jump-ball receptions in the corner of the endzone like Seth Williams....so therefore neither is a "complete receiver" LMAO?

The ONLY conclusion is that these receivers have all been stunted in one way or another. This means that they have their work cut out for them because they are underprepared. It ALSO means that passing judgement on what they supposedly can or can't do is foolish. 

This post is so contradictory.

So the NFL doesn't expect complete receivers (a.k.a. "unicorns")... and you say AS and Seth aren't complete receivers (lmao, Seth is absolutely a complete receiver)... but yet then you turn around and say they are stunted and the system fails them?

Which is it? Are our receivers NFL worthy or are they underprepared?

Clearly the, track record gives you the answer. Slay is the only WR in 7 years to stay afloat. If you could carve out a niche with pure speed or raw athleticism, Ricardo, Sammie, and Ryan Davis would all be in the league. AS is headed down the same path. He needs to stick around or transfer to get the coaching needed to round out his game. 

The idea that you can be a one-dimensional receiver at the highest level is hilarious. You have to be complete. Like these guys. You don't stay on an NFL roster if all you can do is catch open, uncontested, perfect passes.

[DAG 33,982]

1 hour ago, AUght2win said:

Me: AS is an incredible athlete but not a true WR, needs work for the NFL.

Cole: We haven't seen enough of him to know. 

I'm sure we both agree we'd love him to come back.

Both of those are incredibly true statements. 

[metafour 4,969]

30 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

This post is so contradictory.

So the NFL doesn't expect complete receivers (a.k.a. "unicorns")... and you say AS and Seth aren't complete receivers (lmao, Seth is absolutely a complete receiver)... but yet then you turn around and say they are stunted and the system fails them?

Which is it? Are our receivers NFL worthy or are they underprepared?

Clearly the, track record gives you the answer. Slay is the only WR in 7 years to stay afloat. If you could carve out a niche with pure speed or raw athleticism, Ricardo, Sammie, and Ryan Davis would all be in the league. AS is headed down the same path. He needs to stick around or transfer to get the coaching needed to round out his game. 

The idea that you can be a one-dimensional receiver at the highest level is hilarious. You have to be complete. Like these guys. You don't stay on an NFL roster if all you can do is catch open, uncontested, perfect passes

 

You missed the point completely, as expected.

I like the reference to HOF-caliber receivers as if that's the norm and expectation at the position. So unless you're Calvin Johnson, DeAndre Hopkins, or Larry Fitzgerald - you're not an NFL caliber player? And what exactly is your point - that if he comes back and plays again, he can BECOME on of those players? Did you stop to think that those guys are unicorns for a reason? Mainly due to innate physical gifts or traits? 

Calvin Johnson was 6'5 230-240 pounds. Anthony Schwartz is never going play like Calvin Johnson. How could he? 

Anthony Schwartz has his OWN traits and tools which can be exploited in DIFFERENT ways. Please find me some pictures of Wes Welker jumping over defenders to catch the ball - go ahead and I'll wait. The NFL utilizes a WIDE range of talents at receiver positions. There is a reason why there are guys who spend their entire career in the slot - and succeed - without ever being asked to jump over three defenders to catch the ball. 

The entire point is that we ran an offense which didn't know how to properly frame and utilize Schwartz's actual talents, and thus writing conclusions (as you appear to be doing) on what his deficiencies are is silly. A player with his speed can be properly positioned to be put in space so he doesn't NEED to be jumping over defenders to catch the ball - that's the entire point of looking for FAST receivers. Our offense did a piss-poor job of doing anything like that. When you run a screen-pass and the QB throws it at the receiver's feet or behind him; it defeats the entire purpose of the play. But then you'll come on here and say "wow he can't even run a screen play - how come he's always getting tackled?". If you went out and bought a Lamborghini; would you complain about not being able to take it off-roading?  

[mdp5150 167]

I would love to see AS come back for purely selfish reasons but the truth is he can raise his draft grade & MONEY if he comes back and is used in a way that’s different from a screen pass or an end around. 

[AUght2win 6,836]

1 hour ago, metafour said:

Anthony Schwartz has his OWN traits and tools which can be exploited in DIFFERENT ways. Please find me some pictures of Wes Welker jumping over defenders to catch the ball - go ahead and I'll wait.

Just a quick look on YT. Anything else I can help you with, boss?

[DAG 33,982]

3 hours ago, PoetTiger said:

If he was in Bama WR system he would look a whole lot better. I can not judge him fully because he has been stuck in Gus’s mediocre passing system. I fully believe if he was in a more sophisticated system we would not be having this discussion. 

Pretty much this with most if not all of our athletes

[AUght2win 6,836]

1 hour ago, metafour said:

And what exactly is your point - that if he comes back and plays again, he can BECOME on of those players?

My point is unless he returns and cultivates ball-skills and/or fluidity (the former can definitely be done with a good coach, the latter will be more difficult) AS has no chance of surviving in the pros. Or at least living up to his potential.

You. Can. Not. Be. An. NFL. Wideout. With. Just. Straight. Line. Speed.

 

[AUght2win 6,836]

2 minutes ago, DAG said:

Pretty much this with most if not all of our athletes

Yet for some reason people in this thread have suddenly decided we have NFL ready receivers? I thought we were all in agreement that our passing game was on a JV level. Our receivers are further proof. 

I am so happy for Slay, btw. He has blossomed at the next level. I was certain he wasn't ready, but they've been able to really round out his game. He is similar to AS, but Slay had much more wiggle and better ball skills in college. 

I think AS could potentially be fantastic, but he is so damn limited and undercoached rn. Anybody CBH brings in has to be an upgrade to Kodi.

[DAG 33,982]

Just now, AUght2win said:

Yet for some reason people in this thread have suddenly decided we have NFL ready receivers? I thought we were all in agreement that our passing game was on a JV level. Our receivers are further proof. 

I am so happy for Slay, btw. He has blossomed at the next level. I was certain he wasn't ready, but they've been able to really round out his game. He is similar to AS, but Slay had much more wiggle and better ball skills in college. 

I think AS could potentially be fantastic, but he is so damn limited and undercoached rn. Anybody CBH brings in has to be an upgrade to Kodi.

From what I gather, it seems like there is just not clear agreement and that is okay. I don’t agree with the idea that if he does not come back he cannot be a NFL WR. He could definitely get drafted and fine the right team, who utilizes his already skill set to his maximize ability or help him grow even more.
 

I do agree that Gus system hasn’t shown enough to know what he is capable . I even imagine AS will be surprised when he gets to the next level and see what he hasnt been taught like a couple of our WRs have said. My thoughts on AS is that he will get drafted regardless. My only suggestion is he return if he isn’t viewed as a day 1 or 2 pick because I believe he has the talent to be that with the right coaching. 

[around4ever 4,139]

2 hours ago, metafour said:

This is ass-backwards logic.

The most important skills for a QB in the NFL are accuracy, ball placement, and TIMING on routes. If a QB can't display those traits consistently, they either don't get a shot, or they don't last very long. You're talking as if the NFL is a game wherein the QB's are just blindly chucking the ball around and all these "complete receivers" are making highlight reel catches on every throw. It's actually the complete opposite of that. What you are describing was actually the "system" at Auburn under Malzahn, and its why playing WR in this offense has been so frustrating. You have a bunch of guys who only get to run a limited number of routes - which the defense can read because we're so predictable - and on top of that, poor coaching at the QB position means that they're not even receiving CONSISTENCY on those throws. 

Deducing what a receiver can or can't do has been pretty pointless, because the entire situation from top to bottom has been broken. What I do find interesting is that the receivers themselves seem to take 90% of blame for everything - no wonder these guys all want to run off as fast as they can, even if it means being a 5th round pick. All of these guys have their work cut out for them because they aren't being prepared properly; but the mistake you're making is assuming that that the NFL expects every receiver to be some Madden build-a-character which is complete BS. There are all sorts of UNIQUE players in the NFL whose talents are utilized properly. A "complete receiver" means being able to run routes, create an appropriate amount of separation, and catch the ball. It does NOT mean being able to jump over defenders, catch the ball one handed, and also play like a RB with the ball in your hands, and also be able to sprint 60 yards downfield like Usain Bolt. You're describing a Unicorn there. Some of the s*** you guys bring up is just absurd: 6'4 Seth Williams doesn't run like Anthony Schwartz and 6'0 Anthony Schwartz isn't making highlight reel jump-ball receptions in the corner of the endzone like Seth Williams....so therefore neither is a "complete receiver" LMAO?

The ONLY conclusion is that these receivers have all been stunted in one way or another. This means that they have their work cut out for them because they are underprepared. It ALSO means that passing judgement on what they supposedly can or can't do is foolish. 

 

 

Isn’t this true with all offensive skill players under Gus?  

[AUght2win 6,836]

7 minutes ago, DAG said:

From what I gather, it seems like there is just not clear agreement and that is okay. I don’t agree with the idea that if he does not come back he cannot be a NFL WR. He could definitely get drafted and fine the right team, who utilizes his already skill set to his maximize ability or help him grow even more.
 

I do agree that Gus system hasn’t shown enough to know what he is capable . I even imagine AS will be surprised when he gets to the next level and see what he hasnt been taught like a couple of our WRs have said. My thoughts on AS is that he will get drafted regardless. My only suggestion is he return if he isn’t viewed as a day 1 or 2 pick because I believe he has the talent to be that with the right coaching. 

As much as I dislike Saban, I agree with his early declaring philosophy - if you're a Day 1 guy, go. If not, and you have a chance to improve your stock, come back.

AS will definitely get drafted. I just think rn it'll be a 5th or 6th round pick. If he comes back, and shows improvement, as well as more dimensions to his game, teams will see that he is malleable and can potentially be a big time receiver. I could see him going 2nd-4th round with a big year in 2021.

The draft is super important because it's the biggest guaranteed money a lot of these kids will get before they are out of the league. I'd hate to see AS pull a Jeff Holland or a Darvin and be forgotten in 3 years without much NFL $.

[cole256 17,059]

This is a pointless argument, everything most say is based off of anything but fact. He could come back and get better, he could come back and get hurt. It's absolutely stupid to say he's not a "true" wr. That statement alone doesn't make any sense. 

And actually the thing that could benefit him the most as far as a long career is not being a lottery pick, he goes somewhere lower pick but has a great culture and most important a great QB is best case scenario. 

The thing that has held him back the most is something he has no control of, our QB.  So really getting a different QB could mean everything. Board would go crazy if it was said Bo isn't a true QB though...

One thing I'm sure of though is wherever AS is at right now it won't or can't be said that he's not good enough now but if he came back to school he could learn everything he needs to know and now he's good.....wr and rb is the least needed to be coached positions in football. 

Hell AS could be worth the money for a team for nothing else but for taking the top off a defense. And as far as where he goes the combine has as much if not more to do with his draft position as anything. 

Only way people can say you can't do something is if you watched him line up and the ball was thrown to him alot and a majority of those balls were dropped

[cole256 17,059]

Oh and when he does come out his scouting report will say he needs to be better and more polished running routes (which is said about EVERY wr) 

Everybody will say he's explosive, everybody will say he has nice hands, and they will say he's good at tracking deep passes.

[aubaseball 2,602]

3 hours ago, metafour said:

This is ass-backwards logic.

The most important skills for a QB in the NFL are accuracy, ball placement, and TIMING on routes. If a QB can't display those traits consistently, they either don't get a shot, or they don't last very long. You're talking as if the NFL is a game wherein the QB's are just blindly chucking the ball around and all these "complete receivers" are making highlight reel catches on every throw. It's actually the complete opposite of that. What you are describing was actually the "system" at Auburn under Malzahn, and its why playing WR in this offense has been so frustrating. You have a bunch of guys who only get to run a limited number of routes - which the defense can read because we're so predictable - and on top of that, poor coaching at the QB position means that they're not even receiving CONSISTENCY on those throws. 

Deducing what a receiver can or can't do has been pretty pointless, because the entire situation from top to bottom has been broken. What I do find interesting is that the receivers themselves seem to take 90% of blame for everything - no wonder these guys all want to run off as fast as they can, even if it means being a 5th round pick. All of these guys have their work cut out for them because they aren't being prepared properly; but the mistake you're making is assuming that that the NFL expects every receiver to be some Madden build-a-character which is complete BS. There are all sorts of UNIQUE players in the NFL whose talents are utilized properly. A "complete receiver" means being able to run routes, create an appropriate amount of separation, and catch the ball. It does NOT mean being able to jump over defenders, catch the ball one handed, and also play like a RB with the ball in your hands, and also be able to sprint 60 yards downfield like Usain Bolt. You're describing a Unicorn there. Some of the s*** you guys bring up is just absurd: 6'4 Seth Williams doesn't run like Anthony Schwartz and 6'0 Anthony Schwartz isn't making highlight reel jump-ball receptions in the corner of the endzone like Seth Williams....so therefore neither is a "complete receiver" LMAO?

The ONLY conclusion is that these receivers have all been stunted in one way or another. This means that they have their work cut out for them because they are underprepared. It ALSO means that passing judgement on what they supposedly can or can't do is foolish. 

 

 

Winner, winner, chicken dinner. Well put and well stated 

[bigbird 60,522]

Are DL supposed to help defend a screen?

[AUght2win 6,836]

2 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Are DL supposed to help defend a screen?

HA! You keep a record, huh?

[bigbird 60,522]

2 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

HA! You keep a record, huh?

No, just easy to remember a bad take

[AUght2win 6,836]

1 minute ago, bigbird said:

No, just easy to remember a bad loss

Hey, you do you, man. I'll stick to my guns that AS is not currently a true receiver. He's Onterrio McCalebb. 

But hey, the proof will be in the pudding. If the fastest man in football also possesses the skills of a true receiver, there's no way he falls past round 2, right? 

[cole256 17,059]

Absolutely. There aren't any productive wr's drafted outside of the first round

[bigbird 60,522]

What makes a "true WR"?