Kinda stunning

[TexasTiger 13,136]

I understand folks who take issue with certain Israeli policies, actions and leaders. I understand folks thinking Netanyahu has no interest in a peaceful two state solution. But some of these folks who cannot hold Hamas responsible at all for such grotesquely brutal acts are just mind blowingly brainwashed. Maybe they’ve never really been held to account for such positions. That’s changing for some folks.

 

 

[DKW 86 7,481]

When people loudly tell you who they are, you should listen. 

[auburnatl1 5,253]

After finding out the scale of the sociopathic savagery, this has/ will become a fringe pov.

[SaltyTiger 7,908]

9 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

I understand folks who take issue with certain Israeli policies, actions and leaders. I understand folks thinking Netanyahu has no interest in a peaceful two state solution. But some of these folks who cannot hold Hamas responsible at all for such grotesquely brutal acts are just mind blowingly brainwashed. Maybe they’ve never really been held to account for such positions. That’s changing for some folks.

 

 

Do not find it “stunning”.  Seems “heroic resistance” is popular with groups on university campuses across the country.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/10/anti-israel-sentiment-college-campuses-00120853

[Didba 5,281]

One can condemn the history of apartheid oppression and war crimes on the part of Israeli government/military while also condemning Hamas terrorism.

I find it confusing when people pick one side or the other in this conflict especially Hamas. 

[I_M4_AU 8,056]

12 minutes ago, Didba said:

I find it confusing when people pick one side or the other in this conflict especially Hamas. 

Why is it confusing? 

[Didba 5,281]

10 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Why is it confusing? 

I’ll clarify: I find it confusing when people take sides in the conflict re: Israel or Palestine. Especially those siding with Israel no matter what and not just with Palestinian civilians but specifically Hamas.

I don’t support either side. I support peaceful resolution to all conflicts and the end of apartheid government oppression wherever it may be found. 

it’s a nuanced approach to a very gray situation. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Didba

[I_M4_AU 8,056]

2 minutes ago, Didba said:

I’ll clarify: I find it confusing when people take sides in the conflict re: Israel or Palestine. Especially those siding not just with Palestinian civilians but also Hamas. 

I don’t support either side. I support peaceful resolution to all conflicts and the end of apartheid government oppression wherever it may be found. 

A month ago I could understand your position, as of last Friday that all changed.  I am fully behind Israel at this point.  The cries of apartheid took a back seat to pure evil.

You don’t have to support either side, even now, but does resisting an oppressive government justify the atrocities we have witnessed?

[Didba 5,281]

6 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

A month ago I could understand your position, as of last Friday that all changed.  I am fully behind Israel at this point.  The cries of apartheid took a back seat to pure evil.

You don’t have to support either side, even now, but does resisting an oppressive government justify the atrocities we have witnessed?

Nope. Hence, the peaceful resolution statement in my previous reply. The reason I cannot do as you say in your first paragraph is because Hamas does not represent all Palestinians.

As I said in my original post:

One can condemn the history of apartheid oppression and war crimes on the part of Israeli government/military while also condemning Hamas terrorism.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Didba

[I_M4_AU 8,056]

3 minutes ago, Didba said:

Nope. Hence, the peaceful resolution statement in my previous reply. 

As I said in my original post:

One can condemn the history of apartheid oppression and war crimes on the part of Israeli government/military while also condemning Hamas terrorism.

Yes, a peaceful resolution would be the best.  How has that worked out in the past?  

Is there any hope now?  Maybe, after all the atrocities, Israel should have a cease fire and negotiate?

[Didba 5,281]

1 minute ago, I_M4_AU said:

Yes, a peaceful resolution would be the best.  How has that worked out in the past?  

Is there any hope now?  Maybe, after all the atrocities, Israel should have a cease fire and negotiate?

Don’t have any answers for you. Solving peace in the Middle East is above my pay grade. 

[TexasTiger 13,136]

16 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

A month ago I could understand your position, as of last Friday that all changed.  I am fully behind Israel at this point.  The cries of apartheid took a back seat to pure evil.

You don’t have to support either side, even now, but does resisting an oppressive government justify the atrocities we have witnessed?

Are there any rules for Israel now? Anything goes?

[Didba 5,281]

3 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Are there any rules for Israel now? Anything goes?

Bring out the napalm and mustard gas!

[I_M4_AU 8,056]

42 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Are there any rules for Israel now? Anything goes?

Of course there is.  Israel has and is warning Gaza Strip civilians to evacuate while Hamas tells their citizens to disregard the Zionist.  I believe Israel is going after Hamas’ military infrastructure and the Israeli soldiers, from what I understand, are not raping women.

Israel is more inline with how Americans think.  I don’t believe many Americans would condone killing babies and raping women.

ETA: the Israeli’s are not barbarians.

Edited October 11, 2023 by I_M4_AU

[AU9377 5,136]

12 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

I understand folks who take issue with certain Israeli policies, actions and leaders. I understand folks thinking Netanyahu has no interest in a peaceful two state solution. But some of these folks who cannot hold Hamas responsible at all for such grotesquely brutal acts are just mind blowingly brainwashed. Maybe they’ve never really been held to account for such positions. That’s changing for some folks.

 

 

 

When groups like Hamas act in this manner, they forfeit their argument in every way.  They chose to act with a total disregard for human decency.  When dealing with a rabid animal, the only solution is to put it down.  Unfortunately, that is where the civilized world is today with regard to Hamas and their enablers.

[TexasTiger 13,136]

9 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

 

When groups like Hamas act in this manner, they forfeit their argument in every way.  They chose to act with a total disregard for human decency.  When dealing with a rabid animal, the only solution is to put it down.  Unfortunately, that is where the civilized world is today with regard to Hamas and their enablers.

Hamas, yes. All Palestinians are not Hamas. By denying food to the children of Gaza, Israel doesn’t appear to be making that distinction:

Defense Minister Yoav Gallant says he has ordered a “complete siege” of the Gaza Strip, as Israel fights the Hamas terror group.

“I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed,” Gallant says following an assessment at the IDF Southern Command in Beersheba.

“We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly,” he adds.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/defense-minister-announces-complete-siege-of-gaza-no-power-food-or-fuel/

[Didba 5,281]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

Of course there is.  Israel has and is warning Gaza Strip civilians to evacuate while Hamas tells their citizens to disregard the Zionist.  I believe Israel is going after Hamas’ military infrastructure and the Israeli soldiers, from what I understand, are not raping women.

Israel is more inline with how Americans think.  I don’t believe many Americans would condone killing babies and raping women.

ETA: the Israeli’s are not barbarians.

You may want to look into the various massacres/mass rapes that occurred at the hands of Israeli forces since 1948. Also, you could do the same for US troops in Vietnam and Iraq to an even worse degree. It happens in war unfortunately whether the populace condones it or not.  

here is some NSFW reading on the matter:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_war_crimes_against_Israel

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Fact_Finding_Mission_on_the_Gaza_Conflict

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse

Edited October 11, 2023 by Didba

[Didba 5,281]

25 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

 

When groups like Hamas act in this manner, they forfeit their argument in every way.  They chose to act with a total disregard for human decency.  When dealing with a rabid animal, the only solution is to put it down.  Unfortunately, that is where the civilized world is today with regard to Hamas and their enablers.

See the Nazis in Germany and the German people who didn’t have any choice. Not all Germans supported the Nazis. 

It’s the same with Hamas. 

[auburnatl1 5,253]

Israel has obviously got the white hat status with most right now. However, if they go full hell and fury, and videos of 100s of dead innocents in Gaza start emerging out of Gaza, global opinion will change. Israel somehow has to be measured in how they go after Hamas. Damn difficult.

[Didba 5,281]

5 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

Israel has obviously got the white hat status with most right now. However, if they go full hell and fury, and videos of 100s of dead innocents in Gaza start emerging out of Gaza, global opinion will change. Israel somehow has to be measured in how they go after Hamas. Damn difficult.

This wouldn’t be the first time they committed war crimes in Gaza. 

[auburnatl1 5,253]

14 minutes ago, Didba said:

This wouldn’t be the first time they committed war crimes in Gaza. 

My only comeback to that is you need to walk a mile in their shoes.

[Didba 5,281]

23 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

My only comeback to that is you need to walk a mile in their shoes.

Why did you even need a comeback? This is such a weird response to a statement of fact. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Didba

[auburnatl1 5,253]

2 minutes ago, Didba said:

Why did you even need a comeback? This is such a weird response to a statement of fact. 

When there are wars, events and people inevitably go sideways. The best you can do is control the degree of it.  I think given what Israel has endlessly been through, they’ve been remarkably restrained to date. We’re surrounded by oceans, they’re surrounded by enemies who’s charter is to destroy them to the last person. If suggesting walking in their shoes is weird, then yeah, I’m absolutely whacko.

[Didba 5,281]

52 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

When there are wars, events and people inevitably go sideways. The best you can do is control the degree of it.  I think given what Israel has endlessly been through, they’ve been remarkably restrained to date. We’re surrounded by oceans, they’re surrounded by enemies whose charter is to destroy them to the last person. If suggesting walking in their shoes is weird, then yeah, I’m absolutely whacko.

The suggestion to walk in their shoes appeared to be excusing their militaries war crimes, for instance:

“experience what they have and you might not be able to resist committing a couple war crimes here and there.” 

I clearly misunderstood and see that’s it’s not the case. I am glad I misunderstood because otherwise yeeeesh. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Didba

[Son of A Tiger 576]

5 minutes ago, Didba said:

The suggestion to walk in their shoes appeared to be excusing their militaries war crimes, for instance:

“experience what they have and you might not be able to resist committing a couple war crimes here and there.” 

I clearly misunderstood and see that’s it’s not the case. I am glad I misunderstood because otherwise yeeeesh. 

Do you know of any occasion where Israel military (or any country's military) has broken into innocent civilian homes before a conflict was even going on and killed the occupants and even decapitated babies?