Army Louie refuses to deploy to Iraq

[Ranger12 46]

If you are scared, then just say you are too scared to go to war. Just admit that you lack the intestinal fortitude to do your job like the rest of your fellow servicemen and women do. This guy is a disgrace and I hope they court-martial his a-- and ruin his life. People like this that join the armed forces and then try to get out of doing their duty because their college is paid for now make me sick. It ain't in your pay grade to decide foreign policy and you sure the heck don't get to pick and choose what battles you will fight in!!!! Throw the book at this pretty boy puke!

Now, I will set back and watch the resident libbies try to defend this nutless guy's actions.

Army Lieutenant in Hawaii Refuses to Deploy Because of War Objections

Wednesday, June 07, 2006

SEATTLE — An Army lieutenant based at Fort Lewis has such grave objections to the war in Iraq, he's refusing to deploy.

In a statement issued at a news conference Wednesday, 1st Lt. Ehren Watada wrote:

"It is my duty as a commissioned officer of the United States Army to speak out against grave injustices. My moral and legal obligation is to the Constitution and not those who would issue unlawful orders."

Watada scheduled the news conference here, near Fort Lewis, where he is stationed, but was barred from attending during his duty hours from 6:30 a.m. to 5:30 p.m. PDT.

His statement continued: "It is my conclusion as an officer of the armed forces that the war in Iraq is not only morally wrong but a horrible breach of American law.

"Although I have tried to resign out of protest, I am forced to participate in a war that is manifestly illegal. As the order to take part in an illegal act is ultimately unlawful as well, I must as an officer of honor and integrity refuse that order."

He said the war violates the democratic system of checks and balances and usurps international treaties and conventions.

"The wholesale slaughter and mistreatment of the Iraqi people with only limited accountability is not only a terrible moral injustice but a contradiction to the Army's own Law of Land Warfare," Watada said.

In a letter to his command in January, Watada said he had reservations about the Iraq war and felt he could not participate, his lawyer, Eric A. Seitz, connected to the war, Seitz said.

Watada did not apply for conscientious objector status.

"In order to qualify as a conscientious objector you have to be opposed to war in any form, and he is not. He's just opposed to this war," Seitz told the AP.

Paul Boyce, a spokesman in the Army's national public affairs office, said Watada is "not the first officer, not the first enlisted, nor the first soldier" to refuse deployment to Iraq. An Army fact sheet dated Sept. 21, 2005, the most recent one available, said conscientious objector applications had been approved 87 and 101 denied since January 2003.

Army regulations define conscientious objection as a "firm, fixed and sincere objection to participation in war in any form or the bearing of arms, because of religious training and belief."

[TexasTiger 12,992]

If you are scared, then just say you are too scared to go to war. Just admit that you lack the intestinal fortitude to do your job like the rest of your fellow servicemen and women do. This guy is a disgrace and I hope they court-martial his a-- and ruin his life. People like this that join the armed forces and then try to get out of doing their duty because their college is paid for now make me sick. It ain't in your pay grade to decide foreign policy and you sure the heck don't get to pick and choose what battles you will fight in!!!! Throw the book at this pretty boy puke!

Now, I will set back and watch the resident libbies try to defend this nutless guy's actions.

Army Lieutenant in Hawaii Refuses to Deploy Because of War Objections

Wednesday, June 07, 2006

SEATTLE — An Army lieutenant based at Fort Lewis has such grave objections to the war in Iraq, he's refusing to deploy.

In a statement issued at a news conference Wednesday, 1st Lt. Ehren Watada wrote:

"It is my duty as a commissioned officer of the United States Army to speak out against grave injustices. My moral and legal obligation is to the Constitution and not those who would issue unlawful orders."

Watada scheduled the news conference here, near Fort Lewis, where he is stationed, but was barred from attending during his duty hours from 6:30 a.m. to 5:30 p.m. PDT.

His statement continued: "It is my conclusion as an officer of the armed forces that the war in Iraq is not only morally wrong but a horrible breach of American law.

"Although I have tried to resign out of protest, I am forced to participate in a war that is manifestly illegal. As the order to take part in an illegal act is ultimately unlawful as well, I must as an officer of honor and integrity refuse that order."

He said the war violates the democratic system of checks and balances and usurps international treaties and conventions.

"The wholesale slaughter and mistreatment of the Iraqi people with only limited accountability is not only a terrible moral injustice but a contradiction to the Army's own Law of Land Warfare," Watada said.

In a letter to his command in January, Watada said he had reservations about the Iraq war and felt he could not participate, his lawyer, Eric A. Seitz, connected to the war, Seitz said.

Watada did not apply for conscientious objector status.

"In order to qualify as a conscientious objector you have to be opposed to war in any form, and he is not. He's just opposed to this war," Seitz told the AP.

Paul Boyce, a spokesman in the Army's national public affairs office, said Watada is "not the first officer, not the first enlisted, nor the first soldier" to refuse deployment to Iraq. An Army fact sheet dated Sept. 21, 2005, the most recent one available, said conscientious objector applications had been approved 87 and 101 denied since January 2003.

Army regulations define conscientious objection as a "firm, fixed and sincere objection to participation in war in any form or the bearing of arms, because of religious training and belief."

239185[/snapback]

I assume he risks going to Leavenworth.

[CCTAU 3,336]

He should be forced to pay back all monies he has received to date. Stripped of any benefits, sent to Leavenworth for the duration of the war. Then dishonorably discharged.

[Ranger12 46]

I assume he risks going to Leavenworth.

239198[/snapback]

That will be one of the many things he needs to worry about. Getting a dishonarble discharge because you refused to do your duty will hang over this guys head for the rest of his life and rightfully so.

[Captain Liger 0]

I assume he risks going to Leavenworth.

239198[/snapback]

That will be one of the many things he needs to worry about. Getting a dishonarble discharge because you refused to do your duty will hang over this guys head for the rest of his life and rightfully so.

239233[/snapback]

Actually, this little ****-stick risks getting the death penalty but in this PC stricken world, that will never happen.

He's a disgrace to the officer corps, the Army, and the military profession as a whole. Please don't think that the majority of officers feel this way. Anyway, if by some chance of luck he remains in uniform, his career is screwed. He will not be able to recover from this, nor should he.

[TexasTiger 12,992]

I assume he risks going to Leavenworth.

239198[/snapback]

That will be one of the many things he needs to worry about. Getting a dishonarble discharge because you refused to do your duty will hang over this guys head for the rest of his life and rightfully so.

239233[/snapback]

Actually, this little ****-stick risks getting the death penalty but in this PC stricken world, that will never happen.

He's a disgrace to the officer corps, the Army, and the military profession as a whole. Please don't think that the majority of officers feel this way. Anyway, if by some chance of luck he remains in uniform, his career is screwed. He will not be able to recover from this, nor should he.

239240[/snapback]

Doesn't sound to me like he is planning for a long career.

[Ranger12 46]

If they let guys like this stay in uniform, then I won't feel so bad about not being up to get back in because of my medical problems. I wouldn't want to serve in a Army that allows this type of person to continue to wear the uniform.

[Captain Liger 0]

If they let guys like this stay in uniform, then I won't feel so bad about not being up to get back in because of my medical problems. I wouldn't want to serve in a Army that allows this type of person to continue to wear the uniform.

239256[/snapback]

I was just speaking hypothetically. He doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of staying in uniform. He's made his bed and now he's going to sleep in it. I just wonder if at 70 years old he'll still be just as proud of his decision as he is right now.

Apparently he was absent the day his military science class covered the seven Army Values.

[GoAU 1,600]

The sad thing is that out of the risk of getting bad PR from the extrememly liberal media this guy won't get even a small portion of what he deserves. My guess is that he will recieve a other than honorable discharge and no time behind bars.

As to what I THINK - send his ass to Leavenworth, and let him rot there.

[Ranger12 46]

If they let guys like this stay in uniform, then I won't feel so bad about not being up to get back in because of my medical problems. I wouldn't want to serve in a Army that allows this type of person to continue to wear the uniform.

239256[/snapback]

I was just speaking hypothetically. He doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of staying in uniform. He's made his bed and now he's going to sleep in it. I just wonder if at 70 years old he'll still be just as proud of his decision as he is right now.

Apparently he was absent the day his military science class covered the seven Army Values.

239267[/snapback]

Okay, because I was wondering if there was a chance they just gave him a slap on the rest. The military has changed with the times since I was in, but I was hoping they did not let stuff like this go on without serious consequences. I am like GoAU and think he will probably not get the punishment he deserves because of the bad PR the liberal media will give the Army if they give him what he deserves.

[saniflush 0]

I cannot describe the bad taste this leaves in my mouth! He bought his ticket , time to ride the ride. You are paid to do a job. Sometimes you have to do that job and sometimes you don't. Throw the book at him! Or better yet deploy him anyway, strip him of rank and all weapons and make him a litter carrier for the wounded!

[BamaGrad03 0]

This is why i was utterly insulted when Kerry kept referring to Bush's bringing up guard troops as a 'backdoor draft'. As if National Guard troops were supposed to collect a check and never be used in time of need.

ITS WHAT YOU SIGNED UP FOR!

Dont be all happy to take part in a military that pays your school and rent and keeps money in your pocket...if you arent going to be happy about earning that money. Funny that he didnt grow a consciense until he had to earn the checks he's been getting.

[JohnDeere 0]

This is why i was utterly insulted when Kerry kept referring to Bush's bringing up guard troops as a 'backdoor draft'. As if National Guard troops were supposed to collect a check and never be used in time of need.

ITS WHAT YOU SIGNED UP FOR!

Dont be all happy to take part in a military that pays your school and rent and keeps money in your pocket...if you arent going to be happy about earning that money. Funny that he didnt grow a consciense until he had to earn the checks he's been getting.

239384[/snapback]

"What, sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty." Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, I Annals of Congress at 750 (August 17, 1789).

``The project of disciplining all the militia of the United States is as futile as it would be injurious, if it were capable of being carried into execution…Little more can reasonably be aimed at, with respect to the people at large, than to have them properly armed and equipped;…" Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers # 29.

[JohnDeere 0]

"Whenever a people are so enervated by luxury as to intrust the defence of their country to a regular, standing army, composed of mercenaries, the power of that country will remain under the direction and influence of the most wealthy citizens." Signed "A Farmer," in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, Letter XIV, January 29, 1791.

[Ranger12 46]

JD, really don't know what point you are trying to make with your quotes except for the fact that it sounds like you don't support the use of the National Guard. Please correct me if I am wrong.

As far the NG being a militia, you may want to look at that again. The NG evolved from the Minute Men, but they have not been a "militia" for quite some time now. They are armed and financially supported by the federal government, so that hardly qualifies them as a militia anymore.

This group here is more closely related to a federally and state recognized militia, but they are not some whack group:

Alabama State Defense Force

[Captain Liger 0]

"Whenever a people are so enervated by luxury as to intrust the defence of their country to a regular, standing army, composed of mercenaries, the power of that country will remain under the direction and influence of the most wealthy citizens." Signed "A Farmer," in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, Letter XIV, January 29, 1791.

239423[/snapback]

Ummmmmmmm.........I'd hardly classify myself a mercenary. Mercenaries are soldiers of fortune and if you take a look at my paycheck then it's obvious that I'm not in it for the money.

[TexasTiger 12,992]

This is why i was utterly insulted when Kerry kept referring to Bush's bringing up guard troops as a 'backdoor draft'. As if National Guard troops were supposed to collect a check and never be used in time of need.

ITS WHAT YOU SIGNED UP FOR!

239384[/snapback]

No, that's not why you were "insulted," because that is not what he said. This is just another illustration of how most of your political irritation comes from confusion and ignorance.

All Things Considered, June 3, 2004 · Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry accuses the Bush administration of instituting a "backdoor draft" by requiring soldiers to remain in service even after their volunteer commitments expire.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1921747

[JohnDeere 0]

JD, really don't know what point you are trying to make with your quotes except for the fact that it sounds like you don't support the use of the National Guard. Please correct me if I am wrong.

As far the NG being a militia, you may want to look at that again. The NG evolved from the Minute Men, but they have not been a "militia" for quite some time now. They are armed and financially supported by the federal government, so that hardly qualifies them as a militia anymore.

This group here is more closely related to a federally and state recognized militia, but they are not some whack group:

Alabama State Defense Force

239425[/snapback]

Constitutional charter of the Guard

Article I, Section 8; Clause 15

Clause 15 provides that the Congress has three constitutional grounds for calling up the militia -- "to execute the laws of the Union, suppress insurrection and repel invasions." All three standards appear to be applicable only to the Territory of the United States.

The Total Force Policy, 1973

Following the experience of fighting an unpopular war in Vietnam, the 1973 Total Force Policy was designed to involve a large portion of the American public by mobilizing the National Guard from its thousands of locations throughout the United States when needed. The Total Force Policy required that all active and reserve military organizations of the United States be treated as a single integrated force. A related benefit of this approach is to permit elected officials to have a better sense of public support or opposition to any major military operation. This policy echoes the original intentions of the founding fathers for a small standing army complemented by citizen-soldiers.

The National Guard Mobilization Act, 1933

The National Guard Mobilization Act of 1933 made the National Guard of the United States a component of the Army at all times, which could be ordered into active federal service by the President whenever Congress declared a national emergency.

[BamaGrad03 0]

This is why i was utterly insulted when Kerry kept referring to Bush's bringing up guard troops as a 'backdoor draft'. As if National Guard troops were supposed to collect a check and never be used in time of need.

ITS WHAT YOU SIGNED UP FOR!

239384[/snapback]

No, that's not why you were "insulted," because that is not what he said. This is just another illustration of how most of your political irritation comes from confusion and ignorance.

All Things Considered, June 3, 2004 · Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry accuses the Bush administration of instituting a "backdoor draft" by requiring soldiers to remain in service even after their volunteer commitments expire.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1921747

239450[/snapback]

During Kerry's presidential debate and his speeches he associated the bringing up guard troops as a backdoor draft. Heard it with my own ears. If HE's confused, its not my fault.

[Tiger in Spain 0]

During Kerry's presidential debate and his speeches he associated the bringing up guard troops as a backdoor draft. Heard it with my own ears. If HE's confused, its not my fault.

239541[/snapback]

Heard it myself. He's got you there, Tex.

[TexasTiger 12,992]

During Kerry's presidential debate and his speeches he associated the bringing up guard troops as a backdoor draft. Heard it with my own ears. If HE's confused, its not my fault.

239541[/snapback]

Heard it myself. He's got you there, Tex.

239562[/snapback]

Okay, so two very unreliable, highly partisan folks claim something was said during a debate for which transcripts exist, and yet neither provides a link to support their claims. Sounds to me like you've got nothing and are pulling it out of your asses.

[Aubie16 1]

During Kerry's presidential debate and his speeches he associated the bringing up guard troops as a backdoor draft. Heard it with my own ears. If HE's confused, its not my fault.

239541[/snapback]

Heard it myself. He's got you there, Tex.

239562[/snapback]

Okay, so two very unreliable, highly partisan folks claim something was said during a debate for which transcripts exists, and yet neither provides a link to support their claims. Sounds to me like you've got nothing and are pulling it out of your asses.

239654[/snapback]

"Our military is overextended under Bush. Our Guard and Reserves have been turned into almost active duty. You've got people doing two and three rotations. You've got stop-loss policies so people can't get out when they were supposed to. You've got a backdoor draft right now."

http://www.issues2000.org/Archive/Bush_Ker...nd_Security.htm

This is from the 2nd debate... in St. Louis

[Ranger12 46]

JD...you can keep on trying to equal the National Guard to being a militia or mercenaries all you want, but the National Guard and Reserves do not meet the modern definition of a militia. A militia is not armed and paid by the existing government. The militia that fought the British in The Revolutionary War was not paid by the existing government, which would have been the British at that time. The Colonial Army helped pay the militia members, but you have to remember that there was no independent US Government at the time, only the colonial government. Once an indepenent US government was established, the militia became a part of the colonial army, which in turn became the official US Army. Each state then had their own state "militia" but was sanctioned by the federal government, so the term "militia' is actually used loosely there. I can go on all day about this because the Revolutionary War is a hobby of mine.

To add to the backdoor quote by Kerry and how our military is overextended, you can think Clinton for that. As a Army veteran of the 90's, Bill Clinton is the one that downsized alot of the full-time military and said that the Guard and Reserves could take up the slack if needed.

[TexasTiger 12,992]

During Kerry's presidential debate and his speeches he associated the bringing up guard troops as a backdoor draft. Heard it with my own ears. If HE's confused, its not my fault.

239541[/snapback]

Heard it myself. He's got you there, Tex.

239562[/snapback]

Okay, so two very unreliable, highly partisan folks claim something was said during a debate for which transcripts exists, and yet neither provides a link to support their claims. Sounds to me like you've got nothing and are pulling it out of your asses.

239654[/snapback]

"Our military is overextended under Bush. Our Guard and Reserves have been turned into almost active duty. You've got people doing two and three rotations. You've got stop-loss policies so people can't get out when they were supposed to. You've got a backdoor draft right now."

http://www.issues2000.org/Archive/Bush_Ker...nd_Security.htm

This is from the 2nd debate... in St. Louis

239655[/snapback]

Yeah, I know. You've got the quote right. Don't know why you boldened what you did. Here's the key part:

You've got stop-loss policies so people can't get out when they were supposed to. You've got a backdoor draft right now."

The "backdoor draft" comment obviously refers to the way "stop-loss" is being employed. As I indicated before, he's been pretty consistent on this issue:

All Things Considered, June 3, 2004 · Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry accuses the Bush administration of instituting a "backdoor draft" by requiring soldiers to remain in service even after their volunteer commitments expire.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1921747

[Aubie16 1]

During Kerry's presidential debate and his speeches he associated the bringing up guard troops as a backdoor draft. Heard it with my own ears. If HE's confused, its not my fault.

239541[/snapback]

Heard it myself. He's got you there, Tex.

239562[/snapback]

Okay, so two very unreliable, highly partisan folks claim something was said during a debate for which transcripts exists, and yet neither provides a link to support their claims. Sounds to me like you've got nothing and are pulling it out of your asses.

239654[/snapback]

"Our military is overextended under Bush. Our Guard and Reserves have been turned into almost active duty. You've got people doing two and three rotations. You've got stop-loss policies so people can't get out when they were supposed to. You've got a backdoor draft right now."

http://www.issues2000.org/Archive/Bush_Ker...nd_Security.htm

This is from the 2nd debate... in St. Louis

239655[/snapback]

Yeah, I know. You've got the quote right. Don't know why you boldened what you did. Here's the key part:

You've got stop-loss policies so people can't get out when they were supposed to. You've got a backdoor draft right now."

The "backdoor draft" comment obviously refers to the way "stop-loss" is being employed. As I indicated before, he's been pretty consistent on this issue:

All Things Considered, June 3, 2004 · Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry accuses the Bush administration of instituting a "backdoor draft" by requiring soldiers to remain in service even after their volunteer commitments expire.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1921747

239667[/snapback]

I disagree.

He says this directly after Bush mentions that we will not have a draft...but will stick with the all volunteer army. Kerry then says what I quoted.

If someone says, we will not have a draft...and then someone responds..I think the entire paragraph is trying to refute the fact that we won't have a draft. In my mind, he mentions 2 or 3 reasons why we still have a backdoor draft, and I disagree with one of those reasons.

I'm no fan of Bush...but neither was I a fan of Kerry. But in any case, I think you are wrong in that Kerry does cite the use of the reserves and national guard to try to prove we have a "backdoor draft"