Boy Scouts being discriminated against?

[channonc 466]

It is the same reason why men are not considered a good choice to take girl scouts out in the woods. Normal men are attracted to females. Therefore do not allow men to supervise females.

Are you saying that you are unable to control any urges that you have? When your daughter has friends sleep over do you hang out in the hallway hoping that one of them gets up to go to the bathroom so you can hit on her? Do the other parents know that you can't be trusted?

Yeah, that's it. You caught me. As a parent, if you do not scrutinize who your children are staying with, then don't bitch if something happens to them. As a man, I would not want to be left alone in a house full of girls. Too many things could happen that are not even real but just one accusation is all it takes to ruin a life. That's why I have a wife. We do things as a normal balanced family. That does not mean there aren't any warped people out there. But I would not allow my children to be kept by a gay man. Sorry that I don't fit your dimwitted all loving view of the world. But I tend to err on the side of caution. You and channonc can invest together.

BTW. I don't allow my children to be kept by young men either.

So wait, if I am a single mother with a young boy and he has a sleep over at my house with a couple of other young boys-- are you saying that it would be inappropriate for my child to have friends over of the opposite sex than I am?

Judging by how ignorant comments, I would bet that you do not have any gay friends.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

I'm going to throw something out for consideration. One of the key indicators that a person will sexually abuse a child later in life is whether that person was sexually abused as a child themselves. This is not some startling revelation and also holds true for abuse of a non-sexual nature: kids who were beaten and abused disproportionally grow up to do the same thing themselves to their kids.

Now, according to some studies, the rate of being sexually abused as a child is multiple times higher among homosexuals than among heterosexuals.

...46 percent of homosexual men and 22 percent of homosexual women reported having been molested by a person of the same gender. This contrasts to only 7 percent of heterosexual men and 1 percent of heterosexual women reporting having been molested by a person of the same gender."

Marie, E. Tomeo, et al., "Comparative Data of Childhood and Adolescence Molestation in Heterosexual and Homosexual Persons," Archives of Sexual Behavior 30 (2001): 539.

That's just one study. There are others with figures that are similar. The point is, homosexuals disproportionally have experienced sexual abuse during childhood compared to heterosexuals.

Given what we know about the correlations between being abused and becoming an abuser, should this not give us pause about running headlong into having gay scoutmasters?

[channonc 466]

I'm going to throw something out for consideration. One of the key indicators that a person will sexually abuse a child later in life is whether that person was sexually abused as a child themselves. This is not some startling revelation and also holds true for abuse of a non-sexual nature: kids who were beaten and abused disproportionally grow up to do the same thing themselves to their kids.

Now, according to some studies, the rate of being sexually abused as a child is multiple times higher among homosexuals than among heterosexuals.

...46 percent of homosexual men and 22 percent of homosexual women reported having been molested by a person of the same gender. This contrasts to only 7 percent of heterosexual men and 1 percent of heterosexual women reporting having been molested by a person of the same gender."

Marie, E. Tomeo, et al., "Comparative Data of Childhood and Adolescence Molestation in Heterosexual and Homosexual Persons," Archives of Sexual Behavior 30 (2001): 539.

That's just one study. There are others with figures that are similar. The point is, homosexuals disproportionally have experienced sexual abuse during childhood compared to heterosexuals.

Given what we know about the correlations between being abused and becoming an abuser, should this not give us pause about running headlong into having gay scoutmasters?

Then why not talk about a ban on scout masters who have been sexually abused as a child?

[TitanTiger 20,511]

Not a bad idea, if you can get them to admit it. But when we already know that close to 50% of homosexual males have been sexually abused as children versus only 7% of heterosexual men, I think a little profiling isn't exactly unreasonable as a start. That doesn't even get into the moral issues. It's just a common sense issue. Why would you blindly and willingly allow them to become scoutmasters knowing such percentages?

[channonc 466]

Not a bad idea, if you can get them to admit it. But when we already know that close to 50% of homosexual males have been sexually abused as children versus only 7% of heterosexual men, I think a little profiling isn't exactly unreasonable as a start. That doesn't even get into the moral issues. It's just a common sense issue. Why would you blindly and willingly allow them to become scoutmasters knowing such percentages?

Again, those statistics could be skewed by self-reporting as well. What is more homosexual males were honest about being sexually abused compared to heterosexual males. There is really no way to prove how accurate those percentages are.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

Not a bad idea, if you can get them to admit it. But when we already know that close to 50% of homosexual males have been sexually abused as children versus only 7% of heterosexual men, I think a little profiling isn't exactly unreasonable as a start. That doesn't even get into the moral issues. It's just a common sense issue. Why would you blindly and willingly allow them to become scoutmasters knowing such percentages?

Again, those statistics could be skewed by self-reporting as well. What is more homosexual males were honest about being sexually abused compared to heterosexual males. There is really no way to prove how accurate those percentages are.

They could. They could also be underreported as admitting child sexual abuse is an intensely personal matter. I would say the numbers are at least close to accurate and I imagine the vast difference in abuse rates is fairly accurate as well. Point being, I doubt the homosexual numbers are vastly overreported. Logically it makes no sense that they would report being abused in high percentages if they weren't.

[CCTAU 3,350]

It is the same reason why men are not considered a good choice to take girl scouts out in the woods. Normal men are attracted to females. Therefore do not allow men to supervise females.

Are you saying that you are unable to control any urges that you have? When your daughter has friends sleep over do you hang out in the hallway hoping that one of them gets up to go to the bathroom so you can hit on her? Do the other parents know that you can't be trusted?

Yeah, that's it. You caught me. As a parent, if you do not scrutinize who your children are staying with, then don't bitch if something happens to them. As a man, I would not want to be left alone in a house full of girls. Too many things could happen that are not even real but just one accusation is all it takes to ruin a life. That's why I have a wife. We do things as a normal balanced family. That does not mean there aren't any warped people out there. But I would not allow my children to be kept by a gay man. Sorry that I don't fit your dimwitted all loving view of the world. But I tend to err on the side of caution. You and channonc can invest together.

BTW. I don't allow my children to be kept by young men either.

So wait, if I am a single mother with a young boy and he has a sleep over at my house with a couple of other young boys-- are you saying that it would be inappropriate for my child to have friends over of the opposite sex than I am?

Judging by how ignorant comments, I would bet that you do not have any gay friends.

Actually, we usually don't consider mothers as sexual abusers. The numbers are very low. It's more of a concern with males and the gender that they are attracted to.

I have gay friends. They know that I am against their propensity for craving penis. We do not venture there as I do not rave about my heterosexual prowess. Would I leave my children with them? No. Even though I do not feel any of them would harm my children, I do not want that question to even come up in the future.

Just because you are SOOOOO enlightened on homosexuality, doesn't mean you are right. A helluva lot more people feel as I do rather than like you. Hey, have kid. Leave it with a homo. Send it to homo day care. Don't talk about it. Do it. Till then, you have no freaking idea how you will act. Doesn't matter what you think now, once they are here, all that matters is, is there a possibility of something bad happening. If so, I bet you opt out. Not all homos are bad. But ALL homosexuality is bad.

[channonc 466]

It is the same reason why men are not considered a good choice to take girl scouts out in the woods. Normal men are attracted to females. Therefore do not allow men to supervise females.

Are you saying that you are unable to control any urges that you have? When your daughter has friends sleep over do you hang out in the hallway hoping that one of them gets up to go to the bathroom so you can hit on her? Do the other parents know that you can't be trusted?

Yeah, that's it. You caught me. As a parent, if you do not scrutinize who your children are staying with, then don't bitch if something happens to them. As a man, I would not want to be left alone in a house full of girls. Too many things could happen that are not even real but just one accusation is all it takes to ruin a life. That's why I have a wife. We do things as a normal balanced family. That does not mean there aren't any warped people out there. But I would not allow my children to be kept by a gay man. Sorry that I don't fit your dimwitted all loving view of the world. But I tend to err on the side of caution. You and channonc can invest together.

BTW. I don't allow my children to be kept by young men either.

So wait, if I am a single mother with a young boy and he has a sleep over at my house with a couple of other young boys-- are you saying that it would be inappropriate for my child to have friends over of the opposite sex than I am?

Judging by how ignorant comments, I would bet that you do not have any gay friends.

Actually, we usually don't consider mothers as sexual abusers. The numbers are very low. It's more of a concern with males and the gender that they are attracted to.

I have gay friends. They know that I am against their propensity for craving penis. We do not venture there as I do not rave about my heterosexual prowess. Would I leave my children with them? No. Even though I do not feel any of them would harm my children, I do not want that question to even come up in the future.

Just because you are SOOOOO enlightened on homosexuality, doesn't mean you are right. A helluva lot more people feel as I do rather than like you. Hey, have kid. Leave it with a homo. Send it to homo day care. Don't talk about it. Do it. Till then, you have no freaking idea how you will act. Doesn't matter what you think now, once they are here, all that matters is, is there a possibility of something bad happening. If so, I bet you opt out. Not all homos are bad. But ALL homosexuality is bad.

So because you live around other ignorant people I am wrong.

So again I ask, do you think just because you are gay, you have urges to molest children??????

[Tigermike 3,055]

It is the same reason why men are not considered a good choice to take girl scouts out in the woods. Normal men are attracted to females. Therefore do not allow men to supervise females.

Are you saying that you are unable to control any urges that you have? When your daughter has friends sleep over do you hang out in the hallway hoping that one of them gets up to go to the bathroom so you can hit on her? Do the other parents know that you can't be trusted?

Yeah, that's it. You caught me. As a parent, if you do not scrutinize who your children are staying with, then don't bitch if something happens to them. As a man, I would not want to be left alone in a house full of girls. Too many things could happen that are not even real but just one accusation is all it takes to ruin a life. That's why I have a wife. We do things as a normal balanced family. That does not mean there aren't any warped people out there. But I would not allow my children to be kept by a gay man. Sorry that I don't fit your dimwitted all loving view of the world. But I tend to err on the side of caution. You and channonc can invest together.

BTW. I don't allow my children to be kept by young men either.

So wait, if I am a single mother with a young boy and he has a sleep over at my house with a couple of other young boys-- are you saying that it would be inappropriate for my child to have friends over of the opposite sex than I am?

Judging by how ignorant comments, I would bet that you do not have any gay friends.

Actually, we usually don't consider mothers as sexual abusers. The numbers are very low. It's more of a concern with males and the gender that they are attracted to.

I have gay friends. They know that I am against their propensity for craving penis. We do not venture there as I do not rave about my heterosexual prowess. Would I leave my children with them? No. Even though I do not feel any of them would harm my children, I do not want that question to even come up in the future.

Just because you are SOOOOO enlightened on homosexuality, doesn't mean you are right. A helluva lot more people feel as I do rather than like you. Hey, have kid. Leave it with a homo. Send it to homo day care. Don't talk about it. Do it. Till then, you have no freaking idea how you will act. Doesn't matter what you think now, once they are here, all that matters is, is there a possibility of something bad happening. If so, I bet you opt out. Not all homos are bad. But ALL homosexuality is bad.

So because you live around other ignorant people I am wrong.

So again I ask, do you think just because you are gay, you have urges to molest children??????

Can you guarantee that absolutely no gay men will ever have sex with a minor? Either by force or consensual.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

So again I ask, do you think just because you are gay, you have urges to molest children??????

No, I say that those who were sexually abused as children have a big-time propensity to sexually abuse children themselves. This is not new information. I also say that, according to studies, homosexual men disproportionally (by a ginormous margin) report being sexually abused as chidren. I put those two things together and surmise that making gay men scoutmasters might not be the wisest course of action.

[channonc 466]

It is the same reason why men are not considered a good choice to take girl scouts out in the woods. Normal men are attracted to females. Therefore do not allow men to supervise females.

Are you saying that you are unable to control any urges that you have? When your daughter has friends sleep over do you hang out in the hallway hoping that one of them gets up to go to the bathroom so you can hit on her? Do the other parents know that you can't be trusted?

Yeah, that's it. You caught me. As a parent, if you do not scrutinize who your children are staying with, then don't bitch if something happens to them. As a man, I would not want to be left alone in a house full of girls. Too many things could happen that are not even real but just one accusation is all it takes to ruin a life. That's why I have a wife. We do things as a normal balanced family. That does not mean there aren't any warped people out there. But I would not allow my children to be kept by a gay man. Sorry that I don't fit your dimwitted all loving view of the world. But I tend to err on the side of caution. You and channonc can invest together.

BTW. I don't allow my children to be kept by young men either.

So wait, if I am a single mother with a young boy and he has a sleep over at my house with a couple of other young boys-- are you saying that it would be inappropriate for my child to have friends over of the opposite sex than I am?

Judging by how ignorant comments, I would bet that you do not have any gay friends.

Actually, we usually don't consider mothers as sexual abusers. The numbers are very low. It's more of a concern with males and the gender that they are attracted to.

I have gay friends. They know that I am against their propensity for craving penis. We do not venture there as I do not rave about my heterosexual prowess. Would I leave my children with them? No. Even though I do not feel any of them would harm my children, I do not want that question to even come up in the future.

Just because you are SOOOOO enlightened on homosexuality, doesn't mean you are right. A helluva lot more people feel as I do rather than like you. Hey, have kid. Leave it with a homo. Send it to homo day care. Don't talk about it. Do it. Till then, you have no freaking idea how you will act. Doesn't matter what you think now, once they are here, all that matters is, is there a possibility of something bad happening. If so, I bet you opt out. Not all homos are bad. But ALL homosexuality is bad.

So because you live around other ignorant people I am wrong.

So again I ask, do you think just because you are gay, you have urges to molest children??????

Can you guarantee that absolutely no gay men will ever have sex with a minor? Either by force or consensual.

No- but there is also no guarantee that a heterosexual man won't either.

[Tigermike 3,055]

It is the same reason why men are not considered a good choice to take girl scouts out in the woods. Normal men are attracted to females. Therefore do not allow men to supervise females.

Are you saying that you are unable to control any urges that you have? When your daughter has friends sleep over do you hang out in the hallway hoping that one of them gets up to go to the bathroom so you can hit on her? Do the other parents know that you can't be trusted?

Yeah, that's it. You caught me. As a parent, if you do not scrutinize who your children are staying with, then don't bitch if something happens to them. As a man, I would not want to be left alone in a house full of girls. Too many things could happen that are not even real but just one accusation is all it takes to ruin a life. That's why I have a wife. We do things as a normal balanced family. That does not mean there aren't any warped people out there. But I would not allow my children to be kept by a gay man. Sorry that I don't fit your dimwitted all loving view of the world. But I tend to err on the side of caution. You and channonc can invest together.

BTW. I don't allow my children to be kept by young men either.

So wait, if I am a single mother with a young boy and he has a sleep over at my house with a couple of other young boys-- are you saying that it would be inappropriate for my child to have friends over of the opposite sex than I am?

Judging by how ignorant comments, I would bet that you do not have any gay friends.

Actually, we usually don't consider mothers as sexual abusers. The numbers are very low. It's more of a concern with males and the gender that they are attracted to.

I have gay friends. They know that I am against their propensity for craving penis. We do not venture there as I do not rave about my heterosexual prowess. Would I leave my children with them? No. Even though I do not feel any of them would harm my children, I do not want that question to even come up in the future.

Just because you are SOOOOO enlightened on homosexuality, doesn't mean you are right. A helluva lot more people feel as I do rather than like you. Hey, have kid. Leave it with a homo. Send it to homo day care. Don't talk about it. Do it. Till then, you have no freaking idea how you will act. Doesn't matter what you think now, once they are here, all that matters is, is there a possibility of something bad happening. If so, I bet you opt out. Not all homos are bad. But ALL homosexuality is bad.

So because you live around other ignorant people I am wrong.

So again I ask, do you think just because you are gay, you have urges to molest children??????

Can you guarantee that absolutely no gay men will ever have sex with a minor? Either by force or consensual.

No- but there is also no guarantee that a heterosexual man won't either.

When a a heterosexual man does that he is called a pedophile. By definition a heterosexual would not molest a child nor would he/she want sex with a member of the same sex. Therefore your question has no validity.

So since you cannot guarantee their safety I ask again, how many children are you willing to sacrifice on the altar of gay rights?

[channonc 466]

Can you guarantee that absolutely no gay men will ever have sex with a minor? Either by force or consensual.

No- but there is also no guarantee that a heterosexual man won't either.

When a a heterosexual man does that he is called a pedophile. I would also counter that a heterosexual man would not do that.

So since you cannot guarantee their safety I ask again, how many children are you willing to sacrifice on the altar of gay rights?

A pedophile is a pedophile. It has nothing to do with sexual orientation-- PERIOD.

If you are asking me whether or not I would have a problem with my child going on a boy scout trip where one of the leaders is gay, the answer is, no I would not.

[CCTAU 3,350]

So since you cannot guarantee their safety I ask again, how many children are you willing to sacrifice on the altar of gay rights?

It's always easy for these guy to sacrifice other people's children. Let something bad happen to one of their's and see how long it take before they pull out a noose.

Libruls will destroy this country with their enlightenment. I just pray they take their own with them and not mine.

Gay scout leaders are a bad idea. But that won't stop the libruls from trying to force that also. The fact that the Boy Scouts had operated like this since inception and the city had no problem, tells us that the gay lobby went after and hit their target.

GAYS BEFORE CHILDREN, HOORAY!

[autiger4life 3]

I'm all for the Boy Scouts being able to keep out gays. I think that as a private organization they should have the right to discriminate if they wish to whether for the reason of child safety, religious reasons, or they just think gays are icky. I just don't think the government should give breaks to those who do discriminate.

[Tiger Al 0]

I'm going to throw something out for consideration. One of the key indicators that a person will sexually abuse a child later in life is whether that person was sexually abused as a child themselves. This is not some startling revelation and also holds true for abuse of a non-sexual nature: kids who were beaten and abused disproportionally grow up to do the same thing themselves to their kids.

Now, according to some studies, the rate of being sexually abused as a child is multiple times higher among homosexuals than among heterosexuals.

...46 percent of homosexual men and 22 percent of homosexual women reported having been molested by a person of the same gender. This contrasts to only 7 percent of heterosexual men and 1 percent of heterosexual women reporting having been molested by a person of the same gender."

Marie, E. Tomeo, et al., "Comparative Data of Childhood and Adolescence Molestation in Heterosexual and Homosexual Persons," Archives of Sexual Behavior 30 (2001): 539.

That's just one study. There are others with figures that are similar. The point is, homosexuals disproportionally have experienced sexual abuse during childhood compared to heterosexuals.

Given what we know about the correlations between being abused and becoming an abuser, should this not give us pause about running headlong into having gay scoutmasters?

This report is often cited, especially by James Dobson's Family Research Council, along with "studies" done by Pat Robertson's Regent University. This was a non-clinical report where information on homosexuals was gathered at a booth set up at a gay pride parade and information on heterosexuals was gathered at a university.

Information in this report also included studies conducted by Dr. Paul Cameron. The American Sociological Association says of Dr. Cameron, "Cameron has consistently misinterpreted and misrepresented sociological research on sexuality, homosexuality, and lesbianism." He was also kicked out of the American Psychological Association. A court in a 1985 case had this to say about him:

Second, this Court reaffirms its findings that Dr. Simon and Dr. Marmor were very credible witnesses and that their qualifications were impeccable. In contrast, Dr. Paul Cameron--the basis of the claim that Drs. Simon and Marmor committed fraud in their testimony--has himself made misrepresentations to this Court. For example:

(i) his sworn statement that "homosexuals are approximately 43 times more apt to commit crimes than is the general population" is a total distortion of the Kinsey data upon which he relies--which, as is obvious to anyone who reads the report, concerns data from a non-representative sample of delinquent homosexuals (and Dr. Cameron compares this group to college and non-college heterosexuals); (ii) his sworn statement

that "homosexuals abuse children at a proportionately greater incident than do heterosexuals" is based upon the same distorted data--and, the Court notes, is directly contrary to other evidence presented at trial besides the testimony of Dr. Simon and Dr. Marmour.

"Comparative Data of Childhood and Adolescence Molestation in Heterosexual and Homosexual Persons" presents a compelling picture to those who have come to those predisposed conclusions, but I think it falls into the category of GIGO-Garbage In, Garbage Out.

I would prefer to trust the positions of groups like the American Psychiatric Association and the American Psychological Association who arrive at their positions through hundreds of studies, not just one or two.

[Tiger Al 0]

I'm all for the Boy Scouts being able to keep out gays. I think that as a private organization they should have the right to discriminate if they wish to whether for the reason of child safety, religious reasons, or they just think gays are icky. I just don't think the government should give breaks to those who do discriminate.

BINGO!

[Tigermike 3,055]

I'm all for the Boy Scouts being able to keep out gays. I think that as a private organization they should have the right to discriminate if they wish to whether for the reason of child safety, religious reasons, or they just think gays are icky. I just don't think the government should give breaks to those who do discriminate.

BINGO!

Except the Boy Scouts are not discriminating. Or so says the Supreme Court.

[Tiger Al 0]

I'm all for the Boy Scouts being able to keep out gays. I think that as a private organization they should have the right to discriminate if they wish to whether for the reason of child safety, religious reasons, or they just think gays are icky. I just don't think the government should give breaks to those who do discriminate.

BINGO!

Except the Boy Scouts are not discriminating. Or so says the Supreme Court.

No. The Supreme Court said that as a private organization BSA could bar anyone from membership that they so chose without it resulting in any legal liability. Unfortunately, that's not the same thing as saying they don't discriminate. Many organizations discriminate against one group or another. As long as they derive their support from people voluntarily donating, that's fine. But, why should the public, many of whom the organization discriminates against, be forced to support them? That makes no sense, does it?

The Ku Klux Klan is a private organization that discriminates against blacks, Jews, Catholics, homosexuals, immigrants, etc. Basically anyone that isn't a White Anglo-Saxon Protestant. I disagree with everything they stand for, as do a lot of other people. But, their financial support comes from people sympathetic to their cause so, aside from ideological differences, I could care less. Why would it be fair or right for the taxpayers of a city, county, state or country, many of whom are black, Jewish, Catholic, gay or immigrants, etc., to be forced to support such a discriminatory organization? I don't want to force the KKK to change their irrational, hateful bigotry, but, I don't want to support them with public funds, either.

While I understand that BSA is not the KKK, they do discriminate nevertheless. I'm not saying they should be forced to change their practices (although it WOULD be nice if they would include all kids, as there are a lot of very beneficial aspects to scouting) but as long as they do discriminate they shouldn't receive public support.

[CCTAU 3,350]

Bottom line is that there was no problem until the gay agenda became fashionable for libruls. Now that we either accept the gay agenda or be labeled "ignorant", it's come down to discriminating against the BSA because they uphold their morals. The government gives plenty of money to gay friendly associations. make no mistake about it, this was like Mike said, all about sacrificing the children for the gays.

And to even bring up the KKK and the BSA in the same breath is despicable.

[TexasTiger 13,029]

The government gives plenty of money to gay friendly associations.

Please list those. I'm "ignorant" of them.

[Tiger Al 0]

Bottom line is that there was no problem until the gay agenda became fashionable for libruls. Now that we either accept the gay agenda or be labeled "ignorant", it's come down to discriminating against the BSA because they uphold their morals. The government gives plenty of money to gay friendly associations. make no mistake about it, this was like Mike said, all about sacrificing the children for the gays.

And to even bring up the KKK and the BSA in the same breath is despicable.

I don't think anyone here has used the word "ignorant" except you. We have done a pretty damn good job of sticking to the issues and not devolving into personal attacks, namecalling and such. Your side has not.

You also seem to forget that BSA discriminates against atheists and agnostics, too. How does Philadelphia, birthplace of the US Constitution and Bill of Rights, justify supporting a group that also practices religious discrimination?

[channonc 466]

I'm all for the Boy Scouts being able to keep out gays. I think that as a private organization they should have the right to discriminate if they wish to whether for the reason of child safety, religious reasons, or they just think gays are icky. I just don't think the government should give breaks to those who do discriminate.

Couldn't agree more- its their right as a private organization.

[channonc 466]

The government gives plenty of money to gay friendly associations.

Please list those. I'm "ignorant" of them.

I too am interested in seeing a list-- I kn ow of no such organizations receiving government money.

[autiger4life 3]

I wouldn't personally doubt that the government supports a few gay agencies just as they do a few African-American ones. I think the reason they argue they do that is because they are a minority and are given unfair treatment and so they think the government needs to help and step in. I disagree with a lot of that and am not advocating it. However, I don't think them doing that has anything to do with this issue. The issue is whether it is wrong or right and the fact is that a private organization that discriminates against gays should not be supported by the government.

I don't think anyone is ignorant for being for the boy scouts, being against gays, or anything like that, I respect that as your personal views. I just don't think I, as a tax payer, should have to help a discriminatory group.