Leaders of the religious right: "America will get what she deserves"

[WinCrimson 61]

"As terrible as it (9-11) is, it could be minuscule if God continues to allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve. If we make God mad, I really believe that the pagans, the abortionists, the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way... all of them who try to secularize America, I point the finger in their face and say you helped this happen." -- Jerry Falwell

"I totally concur." -- Pat Robertson on Falwell's above statement

"I believe that Hurricane Katrina was the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans." -- John Hagee

LINK

[pensacola tiger 0]

Yep, there are idiots of every description out there on every side of the isle, so to speak.

[TitanTiger 20,542]

Did you miss the intervening few years since then where other Christian leaders got on them for blaming one group over another and Falwell and Robertson apologized?

Has Rev. Wright issued an apology for anything he's said?

[Ranger12 46]

First of all, who is it that makes these guys, or anybody else for that matter, the "leaders" of the religious right? When it comes to my Christian faith, there is only one leader and that is Jesus Christ. I don't put any other person, regardless of how many shows they have on TV, up on any pedestal where I let them speak for me. Most Christians do not follow guys like Robertson and Falwell blindly like some seem to think and suggest.

Like Titan said, even they know to apologize when they realize their comments crossed a line.

[BamaGrad03 0]

There are MANY MANY leaders in the Christian community whom never get quoted or any face time.

Why is it the only ones who get quoted are the lunatics?

[MDM4AU 336]

Did you miss the intervening few years since then where other Christian leaders got on them for blaming one group over another and Falwell and Robertson apologized?

Has Rev. Wright issued an apology for anything he's said?

That wouldn't make a good youtube video or jab in the political forums.

[WinCrimson 61]

There are MANY MANY leaders in the Christian community whom never get quoted or any face time.

Why is it the only ones who get quoted are the lunatics?

Exactly. Same goes for liberals and dorm room assignments.

My point here is not to bash the Christian right, but to show that there are extremists in every group. All of us, myself included, rush to judgment by tossing around derogatory labels in an effort to discredit the other side. I may be preaching to the choir here, but I really do think that if we just stopped for a second and actually listened to the other side with an open mind, there would be much less division in the nation and many more positive accomplishments. Really, all of you have hit the nail on the head.

Titan, my personal opinion is that Wright should only feel the need to apologize for the statement about the creation of AIDS. While the U.S. government has deliberately injected African-American males with STDs, AIDS was not created by our government nor has it ever been, to my knowledge, deliberately administered to the population. There's a distinct difference in the words of Wright and the words of Falwell. Wright highlighted what had come back in our face and Falwell all but justified it. You can YouTube a larger portion of the "Chickens coming home to roost" sermon if you're interested.

[AURaptor 1,128]

At issue isn't whether there are extremist or not, but that Obama has one mentoring him for the past 20 yrs. THAT is the big issue. No other Presidential candidate has a history with such a hateful and racist preacher as does Obama.

[Bottomfeeder 244]

Did you miss the intervening few years since then where other Christian leaders got on them for blaming one group over another and Falwell and Robertson apologized?

Has Rev. Wright issued an apology for anything he's said?

Those guys are one of the reasons I don't attend church. That, and the fact that politics has invaded the church in an attempt to control the vote and lead my country into the Abyss.

[TexasTiger 13,136]

Did you miss the intervening few years since then where other Christian leaders got on them for blaming one group over another and Falwell and Robertson apologized?

Has Rev. Wright issued an apology for anything he's said?

Has Hagee apologized?

[otterinbham 0]

There are MANY MANY leaders in the Christian community whom never get quoted or any face time.

Why is it the only ones who get quoted are the lunatics?

Exactly. Same goes for liberals and dorm room assignments.

My point here is not to bash the Christian right, but to show that there are extremists in every group. All of us, myself included, rush to judgment by tossing around derogatory labels in an effort to discredit the other side. I may be preaching to the choir here, but I really do think that if we just stopped for a second and actually listened to the other side with an open mind, there would be much less division in the nation and many more positive accomplishments. Really, all of you have hit the nail on the head.

Titan, my personal opinion is that Wright should only feel the need to apologize for the statement about the creation of AIDS. While the U.S. government has deliberately injected African-American males with STDs, AIDS was not created by our government nor has it ever been, to my knowledge, deliberately administered to the population. There's a distinct difference in the words of Wright and the words of Falwell. Wright highlighted what had come back in our face and Falwell all but justified it. You can YouTube a larger portion of the "Chickens coming home to roost" sermon if you're interested.

I think that's disingenuous. Without a doubt there are major flakes on both the religious right and left. That being said, I don't see John McCain attending the church with one of the right's firebrands for 20 years. The fact that Obama sat docilely in the pews and absorbed a great deal of this guy's viewpoint over the years implies acquiescence.

[TitanTiger 20,542]

Did you miss the intervening few years since then where other Christian leaders got on them for blaming one group over another and Falwell and Robertson apologized?

Has Rev. Wright issued an apology for anything he's said?

Has Hagee apologized?

For the Katrina comment? Not to my knowledge. Then again, I don't think McCain has sat in his church for 20 years with Hagee as his pastor.

Question for the those who believe in the Judeo-Christian God: Does God ever step in and judge individuals or societies for sin by bringing or allowing calamity to befall them?

[GoAU 1,612]

Did you miss the intervening few years since then where other Christian leaders got on them for blaming one group over another and Falwell and Robertson apologized?

Has Rev. Wright issued an apology for anything he's said?

Those guys are one of the reasons I don't attend church. That, and the fact that politics has invaded the church in an attempt to control the vote and lead my country into the Abyss.

Unfounded stereotype. Don't attend church if you don't want to, but making stereotypical comments as an excuse isn't a good reason. I used to feel the same way, then several years ago I found my church, my eyes were opened and I discovered the REAL reason I didn't attend church before - I wanted to remain ignorant of what I was doing, and didn't want to learn what I really should be doing. Boy, were my eyes opened.

Obviously any time you go "far" to either side you run into wacko's. The biggest problem is that is seems Obama lives pretty close to "far", to close for my comfort.

[TitanTiger 20,542]

Did you miss the intervening few years since then where other Christian leaders got on them for blaming one group over another and Falwell and Robertson apologized?

Has Rev. Wright issued an apology for anything he's said?

Those guys are one of the reasons I don't attend church. That, and the fact that politics has invaded the church in an attempt to control the vote and lead my country into the Abyss.

Unfounded stereotype. Don't attend church if you don't want to, but making stereotypical comments as an excuse isn't a good reason. I used to feel the same way, then several years ago I found my church, my eyes were opened and I discovered the REAL reason I didn't attend church before - I wanted to remain ignorant of what I was doing, and didn't want to learn what I really should be doing. Boy, were my eyes opened.

Obviously any time you go "far" to either side you run into wacko's. The biggest problem is that is seems Obama lives pretty close to "far", to close for my comfort.

I was gonna say, I've attended churches that by most people's standards would be considered conservative all my life. I don't recall anyone ever giving political speeches and such from the pulpit, endorsing a candidate or any of that stuff. The "worst" thing one of them ever did was allow some of those Christian Coalition voter guides to be passed out a couple of times and even then, most of the people in that church already agreed with the conservative candidate's views anyway. If anything, you're much more likely to hear overt political appeals to one party or another from African-American churches for Democrats than the other way.

[RunInRed 16,528]

Did you miss the intervening few years since then where other Christian leaders got on them for blaming one group over another and Falwell and Robertson apologized?

Has Rev. Wright issued an apology for anything he's said?

Those guys are one of the reasons I don't attend church. That, and the fact that politics has invaded the church in an attempt to control the vote and lead my country into the Abyss.

Unfounded stereotype. Don't attend church if you don't want to, but making stereotypical comments as an excuse isn't a good reason. I used to feel the same way, then several years ago I found my church, my eyes were opened and I discovered the REAL reason I didn't attend church before - I wanted to remain ignorant of what I was doing, and didn't want to learn what I really should be doing. Boy, were my eyes opened.

Obviously any time you go "far" to either side you run into wacko's. The biggest problem is that is seems Obama lives pretty close to "far", to close for my comfort.

I was gonna say, I've attended churches that by most people's standards would be considered conservative all my life. I don't recall anyone ever giving political speeches and such from the pulpit, endorsing a candidate or any of that stuff. The "worst" thing one of them ever did was allow some of those Christian Coalition voter guides to be passed out a couple of times and even then, most of the people in that church already agreed with the conservative candidate's views anyway. If anything, you're much more likely to hear overt political appeals to one party or another from African-American churches for Democrats than the other way.

Have you ever heard of Karl Rove and the "moral majority?" A big part of the strategy to get Bush elected in 2000 was to capture that vote.

[BamaGrad03 0]

When traditional Christian churches lay out the facts of each candidate based on CHRISTIANITY, I see nothing wrong with that.

The dems got all bent out of shape because in Christian churches, the pastors spoke out against abortion and gay marriage...and then suggested that if those things were important to the members, they should vote accordingly.

I see nothing wrong with that. It's not endorsement of a candidate...it's speaking out against gay marraige and abortion.

What's wrong with a church encouraging it's members to stand up for the values that the church stands for?

[RunInRed 16,528]

When traditional Christian churches lay out the facts of each candidate based on CHRISTIANITY, I see nothing wrong with that.

The dems got all bent out of shape because in Christian churches, the pastors spoke out against abortion and gay marriage...and then suggested that if those things were important to the members, they should vote accordingly.

I see nothing wrong with that. It's not endorsement of a candidate...it's speaking out against gay marraige and abortion.

What's wrong with a church encouraging it's members to stand up for the values that the church stands for?

There's nothing wrong with it, but it indisputably begins to blur the lines between church and state. Some people have a "moral values" litmus test when voting for candidates and as you said, they vote accordingly.

[TitanTiger 20,542]

When traditional Christian churches lay out the facts of each candidate based on CHRISTIANITY, I see nothing wrong with that.

The dems got all bent out of shape because in Christian churches, the pastors spoke out against abortion and gay marriage...and then suggested that if those things were important to the members, they should vote accordingly.

I see nothing wrong with that. It's not endorsement of a candidate...it's speaking out against gay marraige and abortion.

What's wrong with a church encouraging it's members to stand up for the values that the church stands for?

There's nothing wrong with it, but it indisputably begins to blur the lines between church and state. Some people have a "moral values" litmus test when voting for candidates and as you said, they vote accordingly.

Um, no it doesn't. Explaining what the Bible has to say about contemporary issues is a pastor's responsibility to his flock. If he doesn't, he's abdicating his role as a shepherd. And it's a far cry from the out and out endorsement crap that happens in many black churches.

Look, you can talk separation of church and state all you want, but anyone who pays any attention whatsoever to life and culture realizes that those things inescapably intersect. It's not just some personal journey or whatever you want to call it. Life is filled with moral quandaries and choices to be made, some of which just involve you and some of which affect others. And a pastor would be completely worthless if he was scared to or unwilling to speak to these issues.

[arnaldoabru 11]

When traditional Christian churches lay out the facts of each candidate based on CHRISTIANITY, I see nothing wrong with that.

The dems got all bent out of shape because in Christian churches, the pastors spoke out against abortion and gay marriage...and then suggested that if those things were important to the members, they should vote accordingly.

I see nothing wrong with that. It's not endorsement of a candidate...it's speaking out against gay marraige and abortion.

What's wrong with a church encouraging it's members to stand up for the values that the church stands for?

There's nothing wrong with it, but it indisputably begins to blur the lines between church and state. Some people have a "moral values" litmus test when voting for candidates and as you said, they vote accordingly.

Um, no it doesn't. Explaining what the Bible has to say about contemporary issues is a pastor's responsibility to his flock. If he doesn't, he's abdicating his role as a shepherd. And it's a far cry from the out and out endorsement crap that happens in many black churches.

Look, you can talk separation of church and state all you want, but anyone who pays any attention whatsoever to life and culture realizes that those things inescapably intersect. It's not just some personal journey or whatever you want to call it. Life is filled with moral quandaries and choices to be made, some of which just involve you and some of which affect others. And a pastor would be completely worthless if he was scared to or unwilling to speak to these issues.

You mean like Rev. Wright spoke out on issues?

[BamaGrad03 0]

You mean like Rev. Wright spoke out on issues?

Yes, equating a pastor QUOTING THE BIBLE on homosexual issues, is the same as saying America created AIDS to kill off black people.

Good call!

There's nothing wrong with it, but it indisputably begins to blur the lines between church and state. Some people have a "moral values" litmus test when voting for candidates and as you said, they vote accordingly.

So basically you are in favor of pulling tax exempt status of churches if they preach on morality issues such as abortion and gay unions?

[RunInRed 16,528]

Um, no it doesn't. Explaining what the Bible has to say about contemporary issues is a pastor's responsibility to his flock. If he doesn't, he's abdicating his role as a shepherd. And it's a far cry from the out and out endorsement crap that happens in many black churches.

Look, you can talk separation of church and state all you want, but anyone who pays any attention whatsoever to life and culture realizes that those things inescapably intersect. It's not just some personal journey or whatever you want to call it. Life is filled with moral quandaries and choices to be made, some of which just involve you and some of which affect others. And a pastor would be completely worthless if he was scared to or unwilling to speak to these issues.

To state that the black churches are the only ones who play this game makes you look pretty stupid Titan. Number one, you can't prove that and number two, you are much smarter than absolute statements. If you don't think that political endorsements have ever happened in any white church then I want some of what you are smoking. Also, I'm not sure why this is a white/black issue...I would think many evangelicals vote a party line based on issues they deem important. And finally, am I incorrect in saying the Falwell's, Robertson, and other evangelical leaders have never endorsed a candidate?

Just out of curiousity, what does separation of church and state mean to you?

[arnaldoabru 11]

You mean like Rev. Wright spoke out on issues?

Yes, equating a pastor QUOTING THE BIBLE on homosexual issues, is the same as saying America created AIDS to kill off black people.

Good call!

There's nothing wrong with it, but it indisputably begins to blur the lines between church and state. Some people have a "moral values" litmus test when voting for candidates and as you said, they vote accordingly.

So basically you are in favor of pulling tax exempt status of churches if they preach on morality issues such as abortion and gay unions?

You mean like how Southern preachers used to say the Bible said it was ok to have slaves?

[RunInRed 16,528]

So basically you are in favor of pulling tax exempt status of churches if they preach on morality issues such as abortion and gay unions?

Where did that come from? No, I am not in favor. But I am certainly cognizant of the fact that these lines were blurred long ago and at that one party in particular consistently is a demogogue on certain social issues. Karl Rove could probably tell you all about it.

[Tigermike 3,078]

Um, no it doesn't. Explaining what the Bible has to say about contemporary issues is a pastor's responsibility to his flock. If he doesn't, he's abdicating his role as a shepherd. And it's a far cry from the out and out endorsement crap that happens in many black churches.

Look, you can talk separation of church and state all you want, but anyone who pays any attention whatsoever to life and culture realizes that those things inescapably intersect. It's not just some personal journey or whatever you want to call it. Life is filled with moral quandaries and choices to be made, some of which just involve you and some of which affect others. And a pastor would be completely worthless if he was scared to or unwilling to speak to these issues.

To state that the black churches are the only ones who play this game makes you look pretty stupid Titan. (And for you to make that statement shows what a liar you are. Where did he say black churches are the only ones playing games?) Number one, you can't prove that and number two, you are much smarter than absolute statements. (Number one he didn't say that. Number two you aren't.) If you don't think that political endorsements have ever happened in any white church then I want some of what you are smoking. (You mean like the Obama crack you have been smoking?) Also, I'm not sure why this is a white/black issue...(Then why are you trying to make it a black/white issue?) I would think many evangelicals vote a party line based on issues they deem important. And finally, am I incorrect in saying the Falwell's, Robertson, and other evangelical leaders have never endorsed a candidate? (Sure they have so you are incorrect in the way you made that statement. Are they prohibited from endorsing a candidate because they are Christian or because they are pastors? Are they not entitled to have their own opinion about elections?)

Just out of curiousity, what does separation of church and state mean to you? (What does it mean to you?)

Quit being obtuse. First off Titan said:

Explaining what the Bible has to say about contemporary issues is a pastor's responsibility to his flock. If he doesn't, he's abdicating his role as a shepherd. And it's a far cry from the out and out endorsement crap that happens in many black churches.

Where in that is he saying the pastor should or is endorsing a candidate?

There is a huge difference in explaining issues and endorsing a candidate or even a political party. But if one party lines up better than the other on those issues then it is the responsibility of each member to make up his or her own mind.

[BamaGrad03 0]

You mean like how Southern preachers used to say the Bible said it was ok to have slaves?

I wouldn't know...Pro Slavery southerners were democrats...