What's the approach now?

[gr82b4au 5,568]

12 hours ago, AUwent said:

2001--7

2007--9

2010--6

2011--5

2013--10

2014--6

2015--8

2016--9

2017--9

2020--7

Need one next year to make up for '21 and '22, or else we will REALLY feel it. Look what happened last Saturday.

Just shows you how terrible of a job the last coaching staff did in developing and retaining the players that they signed. It also shows that if you dive into the rankings, there were some entire units that were left out, like offensive line. 
There is a new article on ESPN breaking down the top 10 players for each position group for the upcoming NFL draft. Out of the top 170 players, auburn has one player listed to get drafted. One. Let that sink in. 

[W.E.D 11,070]

15 hours ago, fredst said:

Those classes from 2013-2020 yielded us a Birmingham and Music City Bowl trophy, one SECW title, a bunch of frustrating losses, and a depleted OL roster that resulted in what we saw last Saturday. Is this what we are aspiring to now?

And I'd bet that 2007 class and the 2010/11/13 class contributed a ton to our Sr heavy National Championship and 2013 SEC and Championship appearance.

We need classes full of high ranking players, better player development, and much better roster management. 

We aren't going ve be very competitive with the 20th ranked class consistently unless you think Harsin is the sole anomaly put of all of college football 

[W.E.D 11,070]

9 hours ago, AUght2win said:

I'm not at all ready to judge Harsin as a bad recruiter.

However.

- Saban's first class was #3, and Bama was a dumpster fire that had been irrelevant for a decade.

- Urban Meyer's first class was #2, following consistent 7-8 win seasons from Zook (similar to where Gus left us)

- *Chizik* pulled a top 10 class his first go around at Auburn. 

- Kirby's first class was #3, piloting a program with similar means and in a similar position as what Gus left us.

We have to at least acknowledge that instant recruiting success is very possible, and that CBH has not been able to do it. We don't necessarily need to excuse away this class by saying it takes years to build up an elite recruiting game. That isn't true. 

We need to caveat these classes as having 3 additional months with only a Feb signing day.

Harsin was hire after 80% of SEC players were signed and everyone started on 22 and 23 while he was struggling to finish the 21 class.

22 is his first class. I'm hoping we can be near 15. 23 class is going to tell a lot of about Harsin and staff. In a year, if we're in a similar place I think ppl have a good right to be pretty concerned 

[fredst 9,064]

I wish the whole damn rankings thing would just go away. Do we need good/great players to be competitive? Of course. Are the rankings irrelevant? No, but they are of limited utility when observed in vacuum, ie not viewed in the context of class balance, roster needs, etc. If nothing else they give an opportunity for endless discussion on message boards for a bunch of people that have little to no knowledge of the behind-the-scenes reality and have given a lot of other people an opportunity to make money off of that same bunch of people

[fredst 9,064]

7 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

15 hours ago, fredst said:

 

And I'd bet that 2007 class and the 2010/11/13 class contributed a ton to our Sr heavy National Championship and 2013 SEC and Championship appearance.

The 2007 and 2010-11 classes had good OL. That’s the difference

[W.E.D 11,070]

23 minutes ago, fredst said:

The 2007 and 2010-11 classes had good OL. That’s the difference

Which was in my post...

32 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

We need classes full of high ranking players, better player development, and much better roster management.

 

[tsande07 271]

54 minutes ago, fredst said:

I wish the whole damn rankings thing would just go away. Do we need good/great players to be competitive? Of course. Are the rankings irrelevant? No, but they are of limited utility when observed in vacuum, ie not viewed in the context of class balance, roster needs, etc. If nothing else they give an opportunity for endless discussion on message boards for a bunch of people that have little to no knowledge of the behind-the-scenes reality and have given a lot of other people an opportunity to make money off of that same bunch of people

The Team Talent rankings, which at least take into account player attrition, are probably much more representative than the year-by-year recruiting class rankings that everyone usually focuses on. Even there, as you point out, they won't show specific weaknesses in position groups.

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

2 hours ago, fredst said:

I wish the whole damn rankings thing would just go away. Do we need good/great players to be competitive? Of course. Are the rankings irrelevant? No, but they are of limited utility when observed in vacuum, ie not viewed in the context of class balance, roster needs, etc. If nothing else they give an opportunity for endless discussion on message boards for a bunch of people that have little to no knowledge of the behind-the-scenes reality and have given a lot of other people an opportunity to make money off of that same bunch of people

So I have always been curious about this. IMO the rankings are strictly for fans on the surface, but I wonder how much attention do coaches and recruiting staff's put into rankings. I mean, I know they do their own scouting and evaluations, but there are 10s of thousands of kids every class. There is now way to scout them all. You have to have a base list to go on I would imagine. I don't know how all those minute details of the recruiting experience work. 

[steeleagle 2,945]

Why are we comparing any coach to Saban? Geez.

He was already a good and known coach when he came to Alabama, and already won a NC.

Harsin 1'st year should in no way compare to Saban on the recruiting front...

[Guest MustardSeed]

6 hours ago, steeleagle said:

Why are we comparing any coach to Saban? Geez.

He was already a good and known coach when he came to Alabama, and already won a NC.

Harsin 1'st year should in no way compare to Saban on the recruiting front...

Stop that now!  Common sense isn’t allowed. Only sensationalism!  This is an AUBURN MESSAGE BOARD AFTER ALL 😂

[AUght2win 6,833]

7 hours ago, steeleagle said:

Why are we comparing any coach to Saban? Geez.

He was already a good and known coach when he came to Alabama, and already won a NC.

Harsin 1'st year should in no way compare to Saban on the recruiting front...

Good thing there were several other examples, including a first year coach from Utah and Gene Chizik.

[IronMan70 3,277]

While you want to sign premier HS players, I think the portal and immediate eligibility changes how we need to look at teams now.  We need to do both but players like Leota, Fair, Knighten, Finley and others don't even enter into the calculation of a class but have a more immediate impact on the team than HS players. The immediate eligibility rule shook things up quite a lot.

[AUght2win 6,833]

22 minutes ago, IronMan70 said:

While you want to sign premier HS players, I think the portal and immediate eligibility changes how we need to look at teams now.  We need to do both but players like Leota, Fair, Knighten, Finley and others don't even enter into the calculation of a class but have a more immediate impact on the team than HS players. The immediate eligibility rule shook things up quite a lot.

But that rule isn't going to be permanent. Nor can we count on guys who weren't good enough to start/fit in at their original schools to get us back to competing for national titles.

[Mikey 16,579]

10 hours ago, AUght2win said:

But that rule isn't going to be permanent. Nor can we count on guys who weren't good enough to start/fit in at their original schools to get us back to competing for national titles.

What about that rule won't be permanent? It's my understanding that the transfer rule with immediate eligibility is here to stay.

I 100% agree that guys who didn't fit at their earlier school are questionable. Those guys have to be carefully evaluated on an individual basis.

[fredst 9,064]

5 minutes ago, Mikey said:

What about that rule won't be permanent? It's my understanding that the transfer rule with immediate eligibility is here to stay.

This. Particularly with the way the NCAA has been neutered with the NIL I don’t see how they un-ring that bell

[AUght2win 6,833]

1 hour ago, Mikey said:

What about that rule won't be permanent? It's my understanding that the transfer rule with immediate eligibility is here to stay.

I 100% agree that guys who didn't fit at their earlier school are questionable. Those guys have to be carefully evaluated on an individual basis.

That was a covid exception as I understood it. Maybe they decided to make it permanent. But I thought it was gone either next year or when everyone who played during 2020 loses eligibility. 

[cbo 7,840]

22 hours ago, steeleagle said:

Why are we comparing any coach to Saban? Geez.

He was already a good and known coach when he came to Alabama, and already won a NC.

Harsin 1'st year should in no way compare to Saban on the recruiting front...

Currently we are behind first year coaches at South Carolina and Tennessee. I'm more interested in those comparisons. 

[metafour 4,969]

10 minutes ago, cbo said:

Currently we are behind first year coaches at South Carolina and Tennessee. I'm more interested in those comparisons. 

We have as many 4-stars committed as those two teams have COMBINED. We have a higher per-recruit average rating than both, despite carrying a Kicker commitment that is dragging our average down (neither Tennessee nor South Carolina have a specialist committed in their class) - ie: if you remove McPherson from the calculation, the disparity becomes even greater.

I really wish that people would understand that team rankings are based on total points...which depends on how many commitments you have. They are being selective with a lot of kids who are committed elsewhere (we'll see how this plays out) hence the low commitment numbers, however, this will be a smaller HS Class than normal anyway because they are expected to save spots for transfer portal additions. 

Either way, the idea that South Carolina or Tennessee is doing better in recruiting is completely devoid of situational awareness. South Carolina has 18 commitments, with 15 of them being 3-stars. Surely you understand that there are 3-stars who would gladly commit to us right now if given the choice, right? 

[cbo 7,840]

33 minutes ago, metafour said:

We have as many 4-stars committed as those two teams have COMBINED. We have a higher per-recruit average rating than both, despite carrying a Kicker commitment that is dragging our average down (neither Tennessee nor South Carolina have a specialist committed in their class) - ie: if you remove McPherson from the calculation, the disparity becomes even greater.

I really wish that people would understand that team rankings are based on total points...which depends on how many commitments you have. They are being selective with a lot of kids who are committed elsewhere (we'll see how this plays out) hence the low commitment numbers, however, this will be a smaller HS Class than normal anyway because they are expected to save spots for transfer portal additions. 

Either way, the idea that South Carolina or Tennessee is doing better in recruiting is completely devoid of situational awareness. South Carolina has 18 commitments, with 15 of them being 3-stars. Surely you understand that there are 3-stars who would gladly commit to us right now if given the choice, right? 

Pretty sure everyone understands the rankings are based on total points. And I know Auburn has a higher average per recruit. But at some point you actually have to get players. With the waiver of the 25 max this year and everyone believing Harsin needs to bring in his guys, seems like a good time to stock up and still have room for transfers. 

We have zero DT's, one LB, and 2 OL. That's not nearly enough. 

I believe Harsin will get it fixed eventually. I bet we will rank higher than South Carolina and UT at the end. The point is it should not even be close. I didn't even mention all other SEC teams, except Vanderbilt, that are ahead in the rankings. Missouri and Kentucky both have more 4 stars and 5 stars than us. Ole Miss and Arkansas have as many 4 stars. I know all the excuses. This should never happen. 

Edited to add: Tennessee has 14 commits with an average recruit ranking of 88.01. Auburn has 13 commits with an average recruit ranking of 88.20. Almost identical. Your entire argument that the rankings are skewed by number of commits is completely devoid of awareness here. Surely you understand that. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by cbo

[JMassie11 1,610]

Look at it this way..... Gus had several top 10 classes and that’s the only thing that kept him here for as long as he was. Gus knew hey I’ll get these guys to commit regardless if he honestly thought they would pan out. I could care less if they are a 5* or a walk on as long as they can contribute and get us going in the right direction 

[Gowebb11 9,314]

3 hours ago, cbo said:

This should never happen. 

It hasn’t happened. One signing day is weeks away and the other one is months away. Things will look different after signing day than they do now. Doesn’t mean we will be Top 10 but I don't see this staff finishing behind the likes of Vanderbilt and Missouri. 

[DAG 33,980]

Not going to lie, patience is very hard right now, especially when you see other schools getting all of these commits. Definitely going to support the process..there are times I wish we went the Butch Jones route and loaded up on 3 stars early on but that is definitely not a measured way to sustain success.

Edited November 13, 2021 by DAG

[Gowebb11 9,314]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

Not going to lie, patience is very hard right now, especially when you see other schools getting all of these commits. Definitely going to support the process..there are times I wish we went the Butch Jones route and loaded up on 3 stars early on but that is definitely not a measured way to sustain success.

I agree on the patience part. Obviously we’re all hoping for a late surge for 2022. What I’m hopeful about though is the potential for the 2023 class. The number of visits from high profile recruits we’ve gotten from that class is super impressive. 

[Cardin Drake 1,825]

Looks like we are banking on the transfer portal again. Given how it played out last year, that's not all bad.

[1716AU 728]

Well, the fella cannot coach, and he definitely cannot recruit.

Such a waste of money.