Off Season Men's Roster Movement

[kennypowers 1,431]

1 hour ago, GTNupe11 said:

His play has everything to do with what's between his ears, not his Achilles. 

Have you ever torn your achilles?

[ellitor 33,091]

6 hours ago, abw0004 said:

So Flanigan tears his Achilles and we want to dump him?  That makes no sense.  How many players come back as quick as he did?  Durant was out twice as long after he tore his in the NBA.

Also on Flan with top options Bari & Kess gone he could be in a better state mentally as per Hoke, Flan couldn't find an offensive identity with this team this season.

[ellitor 33,091]

1 hour ago, GTNupe11 said:

His play has everything to do with what's between his ears, not his Achilles. 

Not everything but he has struggled mentally.

[AuburnNTexas 7,140]

No way do we want to let Flanigan go. Some people have forgotten how good he was last year. Toward the end of the year he finally was starting to get his explosiveness back now he has all spring and summer to get back to where he was. An elite defender with a good handle not great and a solid shot and enough size to penetrate and score. Jaylin Williams is a key piece we need back next year. Cardwell is a solid Backup Center who can give us good minutes. Zep, Green and KD will be back but with the Donaldson and Westry who like Flanigan can be a SG or SF.  Westry like Cambridge can provide defense and rebounding from either SF or SG while having a very solid mid-range game and an adequate 3 point shot that still needs work. Cambridge helped us this year with his athleticism work ethic, shot blocking and great dunks but his offense and poor shot selection hurt us. 

I believe we let Stretch go and Moore but keep Cambridge unless we have a great Portal player lined up.  You need guys like Cambridge to do dirty work. We need two big men  (a 4 and a 5) out of Portal or in this new class, plus a combo SG/SF. The combo SF\SG needs to be a 6'5" to 6'7" fast twitch guy who can rebound and score ideally ha has a pull up mid range jumper which is one thing we didn't have this year. 

Two big men plus Cardwell and Jaylin give us a 4 player rotation at 4 and 5  with Jaylin being able to play 4 or 5. Westry, Flanigan, Cambridge, KD give us 4 players at SF/SG plus hopefully a 4th from Portal. KD as SG only. Then we have 3 PG's Donaldson, Green, Zep with Donaldson being bigger both height an thickness so theoretically would be harder to post up.  

With Westry and a healthy Flanigan we can get back to bigger SG's meaning you won't see two or three small guards (Zep, Green, KD) on the floor as much this should make us better defensively which is an area where we got hurt this year with our smaller guards.

Guards who got into the lane amd pulled up with Mid-range jumpers hurt us this year we need a player of that type who can score when the clock is running down.

Finally assuming we get the two big men that we need in the Portal I hope Donaldson knows how to feed them.

 

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by AuburnNTexas

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,662]

27 minutes ago, ellitor said:

Also on Flan with top options Bari & Kess gone he could be in a better state mentally as per Hoke, Flan couldn't find an offensive identity with this team this season.

We shouldn’t even need an insider to tell us what the game is showing, that’s my issue. Guys have never seen Flanigan look this perturbed in 2 seasons of play, but the 3 months featuring him thrown into an already established rotation should represent who the player is more

just insane to me

[GTNupe11 2,033]

5 hours ago, kennypowers said:

Have you ever torn your achilles?

Does it matter? 

[arein0 950]

3 hours ago, GTNupe11 said:

Does it matter? 

Yes, you are expecting him to perform preinjury when it is one of the hardest injuries to come back from. Not everyone is able to come back from that injury. Coming from experience it is so physically and mentally draining

Edited March 22, 2022 by arein0

[abw0004 10,110]

19 hours ago, GTNupe11 said:

His play has everything to do with what's between his ears, not his Achilles. 

I think they both go hand in hand.  When you tear anything, your confidence takes a long time to come back to fully trust that healed injury.  Instead of just playing basketball, you are also thinking about that tear, which can cloud your mind.

[GTNupe11 2,033]

11 hours ago, arein0 said:

Yes, you are expecting him to perform preinjury when it is one of the hardest injuries to come back from. Not everyone is able to come back from that injury. Coming from experience it is so physically and mentally draining

I'm not expecting him to do anything physically he's done prior to. But I am expecting him to make smart basketball plays. I'm not sure why some of you aren't understanding the difference. Him throwing the ball into the stands or making lazy passes etc. has nothing to do with his Achilles. He's playing like he did his Freshman year which was not smart basketball. That's it. I'm not expecting the kid to go out and score 20 points a game like he did his Sophomore year. 

[casatiger 513]

6 minutes ago, GTNupe11 said:

I'm not expecting him to do anything physically he's done prior to. But I am expecting him to make smart basketball plays. I'm not sure why some of you aren't understanding the difference. Him throwing the ball into the stands or making lazy passes etc. has nothing to do with his Achilles. He's playing like he did his Freshman year which was not smart basketball. That's it. I'm not expecting the kid to go out and score 20 points a game like he did his Sophomore year. 

Things were just not right with Flan this year.  There were times where he looked like a deer in headlights on the floor which you expect from a freshman but not Flan.  It was as though he was learning a whole new offense.  The thing we may not appreciate is that our offense has some gray areas or some fluidity gained through on court play/scrimmaging etc..  that he did not get due to injury.  I cannot remember when he suffered the injury but if he missed all of this breaking in time with the new guys then that may explain it.  I know the injury has its own mental hurdles to get over, but there was definitely more than just coming back from the injury with him.  He just never could get into the flow on the offensive side.  That might have something to do with the fact that he went from 1st option most of last season to 4th option at best this year. 

[AuburnNTexas 7,140]

21 hours ago, GTNupe11 said:

His play has everything to do with what's between his ears, not his Achilles. 

You have obviously never played sports and had a serious leg injury, especially an Achilles tear. An Achilles tear is one of the tougher ones to recover from both physically and mentally. In Flanigan's case I understand it was a partial tear which is why he was able to come back as quick as he has.  Assuming a complete physical recovery which is not always the case it usually takes 6-9 months for his type of partial tear injury. Which means physically he is probably close to 100% back then there is the mental side for a while after coming back he was tentative I think that was both mental and still not 100%.  Last 2-3 weeks his lateral movement and explosiveness seemed to have returned. The fact that he can now move better and jump better also affects his game, it takes time to get used to the increased mobility and ability to jump. His defense was first thing we saw coming back to old Flanigan but now he will just need time to put last pieces together working out plus pickup games in the spring will go a long way to see him as the player he was.

[GTNupe11 2,033]

3 minutes ago, AuburnNTexas said:

You have obviously never played sports and had a serious leg injury, especially an Achilles tear. An Achilles tear is one of the tougher ones to recover from both physically and mentally. In Flanigan's case I understand it was a partial tear which is why he was able to come back as quick as he has.  Assuming a complete physical recovery which is not always the case it usually takes 6-9 months for his type of partial tear injury. Which means physically he is probably close to 100% back then there is the mental side for a while after coming back he was tentative I think that was both mental and still not 100%.  Last 2-3 weeks his lateral movement and explosiveness seemed to have returned. The fact that he can now move better and jump better also affects his game, it takes time to get used to the increased mobility and ability to jump. His defense was first thing we saw coming back to old Flanigan but now he will just need time to put last pieces together working out plus pickup games in the spring will go a long way to see him as the player he was.

I didn't read anything past that. Because you made two big assumptions.

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,662]

I’m the furthest thing from a professional athlete, but basketball is the one sport that has a “know your role” implied and explicit undertone. 
 

It is very difficult and stressful to go from being allowed to do whatever (due to role AND your touches) to just being a Joe Blow. THAT can lead you to doing dumb stuff. I’ve had plenty of games where I was just the 5th guy and I didn’t have the confidence to even try to get to my usual spots. 
People have been also condemning the guy for how his ~5 touches in a game goes. There’s plenty of good Wendell, KD, Kessler games that if you stopped their offensive contributions at the first 5 touches, it’d be poor performances

[kennypowers 1,431]

13 hours ago, arein0 said:

 

 

17 hours ago, GTNupe11 said:

Does it matter? 

Ummmm.    Yes.  

[JKClark 180]

54 minutes ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

I’m the furthest thing from a professional athlete, but basketball is the one sport that has a “know your role” implied and explicit undertone. 
 

It is very difficult and stressful to go from being allowed to do whatever (due to role AND your touches) to just being a Joe Blow. THAT can lead you to doing dumb stuff. I’ve had plenty of games where I was just the 5th guy and I didn’t have the confidence to even try to get to my usual spots. 
People have been also condemning the guy for how his ~5 touches in a game goes. There’s plenty of good Wendell, KD, Kessler games that if you stopped their offensive contributions at the first 5 touches, it’d be poor performances

I don't think it's that stressful to make that transition if you primary goal is to win.  You find whatever way you can to help your team. 

We were told that he would flourish when he didn't have to be the primary ball handler, but the opposite happened.  Flan had defensive moments, but as a whole, a bad season, not just a few games.   I think Bruce was more than patient to allow him to work thru those issues. 

Who knows what next year holds.  I hope we see the sophomore version.  

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,662]

4 hours ago, JKClark said:

I don't think it's that stressful to make that transition if you primary goal is to win.  You find whatever way you can to help your team. 

We were told that he would flourish when he didn't have to be the primary ball handler, but the opposite happened.  Flan had defensive moments, but as a whole, a bad season, not just a few games.   I think Bruce was more than patient to allow him to work thru those issues. 

Who knows what next year holds.  I hope we see the sophomore version.  

You’re implying there’s some residual self-centeredness from the guy getting 4 shot attempts a game most nights and playing the 2nd-3rd best defense on the team, depending on the matchup lol. A. Dude had a couple games to look at the pecking order, sit himself down, and get rested up to transfer elsewhere. B. You don’t play defense like he does if your “primary goal” isn’t to win. That’s asinine

And how you read the game doesn’t just magically change because you’re attempting to defer more. It’s not a wand you wave! He took less shots as the season progressed, virtually nothing that was even semi contested. If your intention is to say the guy the guy isn’t attempting to win for taking like 2 layups a game and being the tertiary dribbler on some possessions, then I don’t really know what we’re talking about. 
 

Pearl let him play through it because Pearl needed Flanigan to come back to himself. The team wasn’t winning a title  unless AF figured it out, the resentment towards the staff or the implication his daddy was involved reeks of not seeing what’s on the court. Zep was met at half court and ransacked multiple times, none more than Kentucky where AF had to be the primary ball handler in the first half because our PG couldn’t bring it up the court. KD can’t both pass and score. It’s either or and it’s made up the second he gets the ball. Even if Flanigan messed up 100 more times than he did, there wasn’t an alternative to getting him right if you wanted a title 

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,662]

“Let me magically approximate the skill set that led to me being one of the best isolation scorers in the conference into being a guy who gets 5 touches a game, off an Achilles injury, in an already established rotation. I bet I’ll be perfectly fine because I want to WIN!”  

[JKClark 180]

I wasn't questioning Flan's desire to win.  That comment was more directed at your statement of the transition to a role player being stressful...and that's just my opinion.  No magical approximation on this end.

Of course it was better if he reverted to his former self, but didn't happen.  He didn't even string together a few positive games during the season.   He hustled, played good defense but the flip side was turnovers and poor shooting.  Devan and Jaylin were better alternatives by the end of the year.  

[SumterAubie 3,031]

21 hours ago, arein0 said:

Yes, you are expecting him to perform preinjury when it is one of the hardest injuries to come back from. Not everyone is able to come back from that injury. Coming from experience it is so physically and mentally draining

Even Achilles could not come back from it.

[SumterAubie 3,031]

Cambridge is our Kurt Rambis

[Sani-Freeze 552]

I think we absolutely need Flanigan to stay, especially with the expected roster turnover that is coming. We just need him to be closer to last year's version and protect the ball. He is an important glue guy that *can* do things when the rest of the offense is stalled. We saw just a tiny glimmer of that in the tournament.

As far as the injury goes, I'll admit I don't understand how he was well enough to run and jump (even to play defense at a high level) - but not able to throw good passes. It was sort of like a short stop with the "yips" throwing to first. So that has to improve. But we still need him on the roster. 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Sani-Freeze

[AUlurker 178]

I feel for Flan. I tore my ACL in 2010 playing pickup ball. I still try to wear a brace when I play basketball.

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,662]

5 hours ago, JKClark said:

I wasn't questioning Flan's desire to win.  That comment was more directed at your statement of the transition to a role player being stressful...and that's just my opinion.  No magical approximation on this end.

Of course it was better if he reverted to his former self, but didn't happen.  He didn't even string together a few positive games during the season.   He hustled, played good defense but the flip side was turnovers and poor shooting.  Devan and Jaylin were better alternatives by the end of the year.  

I desperately need folks to understand that Flanigan and Jaylin do not play the same position, defend the same players, or are asked to do the same thing 

1st part - ones a wing, the others a big. You’re killing Jaylin asking him to defend guards/wings for AF’s allotment of minutes 

2nd - see 1st 

3rd - AF was asked to be a ball handler by the coaching staff. The guy wasn’t out there dribbling because he just demanded it. Now, the coaching staff definitely reduced how much handling was done, but you can see some half court possessions are centered around getting him isolated and asking him to cook. Again, that’s just what you need as a title contender. You can’t have one guard that can put some pressure on the rim in your starting lineup.
 

Flanigan didn’t look great in that role, I’ll be happy to admit that, but you’re comparing apples to oranges comparing him to who you are. Devan is asked to do SEVERELY less on both offense and defense and had a more limited skill set than even this reduced Flanigan. Dude dribbled even worse. I loved his rebounding, but that’s all I’d have him over AF in 

[Dunndone414 469]

I wonder if Traore has the size to play the five, allowing Jaylin to play the four. We will take a step back with rim protection regardless assuming Kessler is gone. 

[Butthead 525]

Need to get the bag man to visit Kess -- would be fun to see this potential front court.