Is Nick Saban skirting the rules in recruiting?

[RunInRed 16,404]

Anyone catch Tommy's presser today?

[TitanTiger 20,472]

No. Please dish.

[RunInRed 16,404]

No. Please dish.

There was an indirect reference made to Jackie Sherrill and how he cheated back when he was at MSU and how that got them in a lot of trouble. Tommy was reiterating his lines of "doing things the right way" and "not cutting corners."

I believe the full presser is up at auburntigers.com but you have to have their premium membership - other premium services usually put it up as well. MyFoxAl.com usually will also load it - but it isn't available on their site yet.

If anyone finds a link, please share.

[Justin5 20]

So did he actually mention Saban, or are you simply adding Saban's name to add some spice to the story?

[RunInRed 16,404]

So did he actually mention Saban, or are you simply adding Saban's name to add some spice to the story?

He mentioned Sherill. But it doesn't take a lot to put together the dots. When Tuberville is talking about "not cutting corners" - he is clearly referencing the school who has gotten commitments from a lot of the prospects we've been recruiting. Again, it's MY OPINION but I don't think I'm far off either.

Don't forget, Tubs is a master of the media and he rarely says anything without an udnerlying reason behind. Who else would he possibly be taking a shot at? There is no one else even close where we have gone head to head with so many recruits.

[BamaGrad03 0]

Or maybe, as his history would indicate, Saban is a good recruiter.

Do you guys not find irony in all of this? For the last 5 years, you guys have always said that Bama fans make excuses...everytime AU lands a big recruit.

Now that Saban is killing it in recruiting, it's because we're cheating, and not because of merit.

[FootballFanatic 4]

I think its a bit odd that Saban was a good recruiter at LSU when LSU's recruiting hasn't even budged from being stellar since he left.

He may have started something and may not be bad, but honestly it seems even Miles is a GREAT recruiter.

And the small info coming out from a lot of other recruits and schools pointing at bama is enough to lead me to believe he is cutting some corners because he has no financial incentive to avoid getting NCAA probation. His contract is pretty solid in his favor.

[Justin5 20]

I refuse to bitch and whine about Saban's success in recruiting.

First thing is we are loaded for years while bama's talent level is severly lower (any bama fan will admit) - this will change in years to come

Second thing is we can't even sign a full class because of the big one last year - this will change in years to come

Third is Saban is new and interesting - this will change in years to come

Fourth is Saban has a ring - this will not change, it is Tub's job to match this

Unless you have some evidence for me of his cheating it makes us sound like jealous, whiney, immature fans.

[AuburnChopper1 0]

OMG! Another Saban recruiting debate....HOLY CRAP!

I'll be back in a bit..going to go find that 3 iron to beat my head in with......

[TitanTiger 20,472]

So did he actually mention Saban, or are you simply adding Saban's name to add some spice to the story?

He mentioned Sherill. But it doesn't take a lot to put together the dots. When Tuberville is talking about "not cutting corners" - he is clearly referencing the school who has gotten commitments from a lot of the prospects we've been recruiting. Again, it's MY OPINION but I don't think I'm far off either.

Don't forget, Tubs is a master of the media and he rarely says anything without an udnerlying reason behind. Who else would he possibly be taking a shot at? There is no one else even close where we have gone head to head with so many recruits.

I don't think he was getting at Saban. I think he was taking another shot at Sherill, who Tubs has no love for whatsoever. Phillip Marshall seems to think the same thing:

In Croom's corner

Posted by Phillip Marshall, The Huntsville Times September 11, 2007 6:05 PM

Auburn coach Tommy Tuberville has had nothing but success against fourth-year Mississippi State coach Sylvester Croom, winning 43-14, 28-0 and 34-0. Auburn is a two-touchdown favorite Saturday at Jordan-Hare Stadium.

But don't be deceived, Tuberville said Tuesday. Croom, he said, is the kind of coach he'd like his two sons to play for.

And though he didn't mention him by name, it was clear Tuberville didn't have the same high opinion of Croom's predecessor Jackie Sherrill. Sherrill and Tuberville were in-state rivals when Tuberville was at Ole Miss from 1995-98.

Croom has won three games in each of the past three seasons, but Tuberville said that's a small part of the story.

"You hear all the things talked about him, even in preseason, about hot seat," Tuberville said. "If Sylvester Croom is on the hot seat, we need to look around and check ourselves. Here's a guy that took over a program that was dismantled, out of control, that needed some leadership to bring some dignity and character back to it. He has definitely done that. I'm proud to say I'm a friend of his. He's worked very hard and done it the right way. He didn't come in and skirt the rules and try to throw a team together to win. He's looking out for those young guys. He's doing it the right way.

"My two kids growing up, if he stays in it long enough, I'd love for them to play for him. He's the kind of guy you'd want to coach your kids. It's going to take him a while longer than 3-4 years. When you take over a program that is in the shape that one was in, I'm sure he's got a 10-year plan in."

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Or maybe, as his history would indicate, Saban is a good recruiter.

Do you guys not find irony in all of this? For the last 5 years, you guys have always said that Bama fans make excuses...everytime AU lands a big recruit.

Now that Saban is killing it in recruiting, it's because we're cheating, and not because of merit.

What merit...going 4-9 and 6-6?

[bigsixfive 327]

The answer is yes, but I think you're reading too much into those particular comments.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/foot...m.ap/index.html

"It's going to take him a while longer than three or four years," said Tuberville, who is friends with Croom. "When you take over a program that was in the shape that one was in when he took it over, I'm sure he's got a 10-year plan in.

"A lot of people, sometimes, don't wait for 10 years. That's their fault. When you take over a program like that you need opportunities to get that thing intact. He's done a great job."

Tuberville also praised Croom for how he is going about trying to turn around the Mississippi State program.

"He didn't come in the first year and skirt the rules and try to throw a team together to win," he said. "He's looking out for those young guys. He's doing it the right way."

[RunInRed 16,404]

"He didn't come in the first year and skirt the rules and try to throw a team together to win," he said. "He's looking out for those young guys. He's doing it the right way."

I think that is a direct shot at Saban - but maybe I'm wrong.

[Bama Possum 0]

I think its a bit odd that Saban was a good recruiter at LSU when LSU's recruiting hasn't even budged from being stellar since he left.

He may have started something and may not be bad, but honestly it seems even Miles is a GREAT recruiter.

And the small info coming out from a lot of other recruits and schools pointing at bama is enough to lead me to believe he is cutting some corners because he has no financial incentive to avoid getting NCAA probation. His contract is pretty solid in his favor.

You need to go back and READ his contract. You can find it easily online.

If he creates a probation situation, he loses it all. Period.

Guaranteed money simply means the university cannot fire him for any old reason. There are several very specific things that will cause him to lose his job with NO compensation. If anything, he has MORE of a financial incentive not to get involved in any serious violations.

Here's the basic rundown...

Bama fires Saban...He gets every penny he is owed. All 32 million.

Saban gets hit with probation or creates a serious problem for Alabama. He gets nothing.

Saban decides to leave Bama for another job, he pays no penalty, but he loses the rest of his contract.

The contract is also designed to pay incentives for winning bowls, championships, etc...

[AUesquire 1]

I say we go get ours and they go get theirs and let's meet some time in November, either in Auburn or Tuscaloosa. Well settle it then and there.

Then next year, we'll go get ours and they'll go get theirs....

[arnaldoabru 11]

Jezz, all CTT is trying to do is help out Croom whom he undoubtable has a great deal of respect for.Don't start *&)(*^%% where there is none.

[SouthLink02 8]

Nobody recruited at LSU the way Saban did.

Please, don't use Dinardo's class in '97 as a way to justify him being a great recruiter. Outside of maybe several players, Dinardo's classes were a complete and total disaster. Rarely did half the classes qualify and that doesn't even include those who just dropped out, failed out, etc...

Saban opened LSU up to clamping down on the State and locking up some of Texas best talent.

He literally was picking and choosing by his last 1-2 years.

It was amazing to watch from when he got to LSU to when he left. Totally, Totally different program

[bigsixfive 327]

"He didn't come in the first year and skirt the rules and try to throw a team together to win," he said. "He's looking out for those young guys. He's doing it the right way."

I think that is a direct shot at Saban - but maybe I'm wrong.

I interpret it one of two ways. One, he's saying Croom took the high road and recruited right. He could have been dirty about it and built up a better team faster. Two, he's digging at Sherrill, because he was a dirty coach.

[BamaGrad03 0]

Or maybe, as his history would indicate, Saban is a good recruiter.

Do you guys not find irony in all of this? For the last 5 years, you guys have always said that Bama fans make excuses...everytime AU lands a big recruit.

Now that Saban is killing it in recruiting, it's because we're cheating, and not because of merit.

What merit...going 4-9 and 6-6?

Yeah, because we ALL know current recruting only takes into consideration past records. It has nothing to do with a head coach who is currently very popular, or adding new members to the staf who have been previously named recruiter of the year.

You can suggest we are cheating all you want, but it only makes you look like you are holding sour grapes.

[JohnDeere 0]

I think its a bit odd that Saban was a good recruiter at LSU when LSU's recruiting hasn't even budged from being stellar since he left.

He may have started something and may not be bad, but honestly it seems even Miles is a GREAT recruiter.

And the small info coming out from a lot of other recruits and schools pointing at bama is enough to lead me to believe he is cutting some corners because he has no financial incentive to avoid getting NCAA probation. His contract is pretty solid in his favor.

You need to go back and READ his contract. You can find it easily online.

If he creates a probation situation, he loses it all. Period.

Guaranteed money simply means the university cannot fire him for any old reason. There are several very specific things that will cause him to lose his job with NO compensation. If anything, he has MORE of a financial incentive not to get involved in any serious violations.

Here's the basic rundown...

Bama fires Saban...He gets every penny he is owed. All 32 million.

Saban gets hit with probation or creates a serious problem for Alabama. He gets nothing.

Saban decides to leave Bama for another job, he pays no penalty, but he loses the rest of his contract.

The contract is also designed to pay incentives for winning bowls, championships, etc...

Mr. Expert on contract law....please provide a link to said contract. It is obvious your only knowledge of the said contract comes from what you heard on the Paul Finebaum Show.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Or maybe, as his history would indicate, Saban is a good recruiter.

Do you guys not find irony in all of this? For the last 5 years, you guys have always said that Bama fans make excuses...everytime AU lands a big recruit.

Now that Saban is killing it in recruiting, it's because we're cheating, and not because of merit.

What merit...going 4-9 and 6-6?

Yeah, because we ALL know current recruting only takes into consideration past records. It has nothing to do with a head coach who is currently very popular, or adding new members to the staf who have been previously named recruiter of the year.

You can suggest we are cheating all you want, but it only makes you look like you are holding sour grapes.

I don't have any idea if you're cheating or not. I just thought the "merit" line was kinda funny given recent history.

[BamaGrad03 0]

I don't have any idea if you're cheating or not. I just thought the "merit" line was kinda funny given recent history.

I should have clarified: the merits of our current coaching staff.

[SKCAUB 0]

Or maybe, as his history would indicate, Saban is a good recruiter.

Do you guys not find irony in all of this? For the last 5 years, you guys have always said that Bama fans make excuses...everytime AU lands a big recruit.

Now that Saban is killing it in recruiting, it's because we're cheating, and not because of merit.

Apparently he is pretty good at getting grades changed (see Hoover andLSU)....

[AUman43 5]

I'm not saying that Saban is not an outstanding recruiter but everyone with a brain knows that LSU locks the gates when it comes to in-state talent. THose few kids who venture out of state are ostracized and looked down upon by the people of Louisiana. Miles doesn't have to be a great recruiter to keep the pipelines open. Heck, they even recruit out of Texas, Mississippi, Arkansas, Mississippi, Florida, and here of late, nationally. Success breeds success. it's that simple. At Bammer, he will find that things are more competetive when the "new" or "novelty" wears off and he competes with Georgia, Auburn, UT and Florida annually. If one or more beats him this year, he will discover that competion much sooner. Tubs job is to deny him a "monopoly" of in-state talent as was the case when the Bahr was there. The jury is still out on whether or not he can do that. As for this year, Tubs told all of earlier that "they" would claim recruiting dominance this year due to our roster being full and only being able to sign 16-18 players. Of course, with attrition,that could change by signing day. "They" are filling up their roster rapidly with about 19 commits now. That doesn't leave a lot of open spots for all the Bammer want-to-be's and they will go elsewhere.

[RunInRed 16,404]

Sherrill strikes back, calls out Tubs manhood (little does he know, CTT wasn't even talking about him!):

Tommy Tuberville said the program had been "out of control;" that it was in need of some "dignity and character." He said the new head coach hasn't "skirted the rules" and that it could take 10 years to "fix a program in the shape that one was in."

Tuberville was trying to come to the defense of Mississippi State head coach Sylvester Croom. But in praising Croom, Tuberville was slamming Croom's predecessor, Jackie Sherrill.

Unfortunately for Sherrill, most college football fans would tend to agree with Tuberville. Sherrill has been a lightning rod in college football since his days at Pittsburgh, and it seems like everywhere the Alabama grad has coached, the NCAA has followed, finding Sherrill's programs at Texas A&M and State guilty of rules violations.

Still, when told what Tuberville said at Auburn's weekly press conference, Sherrill said, "I don't respond to third party comments. If those things were an issue, Tommy never said it to me personally. It's really sad when people comment and they have no knowledge of the things they're talking about. I guarantee you, he wouldn't say that to me personally."

Sherrill hopes what Tuberville was doing was trying to say something good about Croom, because Auburn plays Mississippi State Saturday.

After losing to South Florida last week, Sherrill knows Tuberville needs to make sure he doesn't lose again this week.

"And State is better today than they were last year," said Sherrill, who works as a studio analyst for FoxSportsNet Southwest. "I don't know that they have the quarterback to run the offense they want to run, but they have a very good running back.

"And defensively, they are good. I think Sylvester has done a good job. But in this profession, you're judged on wins."

Much of the criticism of Auburn has been directed at quarterback Brandon Cox, who ranks 97th nationally in passing efficiency and has been sacked seven times in two games, the most of any quarterback in the Southeastern Conference and more than all but eight of 119 Division I-A teams.

Offering unasked for advice to Tuberville, Sherrill said, "If Cox is the best quarterback you have, you better protect him. If your quarterback is getting sacked, it's either you're asking him to do things he can't do, or you're not protecting him, and that's the coach's fault.

"The quarterback dictates his protection. When he's at the line of scrimmage and you've called a play, he should have options of checking to a play to better protect himself. If you haven't given him those options, then you're not helping your quarterback.

"I'm just saying that, unless you're just playing someone much, much better than you, there are always ways to protect your quarterback."

Tuberville is standing by Cox, a fifth-year senior, even as some are wondering why he doesn't give another quarterback a chance.

"Cox knows he's been getting sacked and turning the ball over, and if he thinks the other kid is starting to get more of a chance - all it does is multiply the pressure on Cox," Sherrill said. "At the same time, it's hard to win if your quarterback isn't playing well."

Of course, Tuberville isn't asking Sherrill for advice.

However, if Tuberville has something to say about Sherrill, Sherrill would prefer he do it face to face.

"I don't think he will do that," Sherrill said.

Ray Melick's column appears on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. Write him at rmelick@bhamnews.com

I still say the reference of skirting the rules was towards West Vance. Nevertheless, Ray Melick is pathetic as usual and I wouldn't expect him to realize that.