Linebacker AND D L play against the Red wolves

[JMassie11 1,610]

We played 1 lb (and that area wasn't attacked) and what was wrong with db play?....my only concern is getting off the field on 3rd down which really was the only issue I had with the game Sat

WSU converted 7 out of 17 3rd downs, that really is not all that bad ( I think we ranked fourth or fifth in the SEC this week in this catagory). If you look across the SEC that would be better than average. Also saw that the offense only had 2 three and outs. That is the least I can remember in a while. WDE.

That 3rd down number was night and day difference in the halves...I just feel we need to limit 3rd down conversions to less than 30% to be effective

[bdc81 90]

I not sure about dominance. I'd settle for competing in the best league in the country for now. If we do that then we will win our share of SEC titles and more. Little doc

[ballrun44 0]

Did our starting MLB have ZERO stats in the game? How is that possible? You put a guy in the center of the action to make plays and we had a cheerleader in the middle of the field. We need some hungrier for some action!

[SummerTiger 0]

A team that averaged 29 rushing yards per game in the PAC 12 last year with 4 walk on offensive lineman gained 120 yds on AU, that can't be an encouraging sign. The usually suspects from last year's front 7 were mostly to blame. Holland played half the game and missed at least 3 tackles that I remember, while not recording a stat. Frost looked the part and made a few tackles but his most notable play was getting trucked at the 3 and driven into the end zone. Cass had a couple tackles but didn't play much due to the reliance on dime defense.

The problem with all of the linebackers is that they seem to stare into the backfield diagnosing the play rather than reading and attacking. Blockers come as a surprise on run plays as well as swing passes to the running backs go un-noticed on passing plays.

The improvement on the Dline was mainly from the new additions: Bradley, Adams, and Lawson. The rest looked alot like last year, save an early TFL by Gabe Wright.

[JMassie11 1,610]

Next time we play an air raid team lets just run a 4-4-3.....maybe then our lbs can get some stats

[WarEagle10 77]

I really am not concerned about the DL play, yet. I do understand we only had one LB, on the field, at a time against WSU, but LB play must improve. I think this game will be a better barometer on our LB's. We need some of those guys to step up to have a successful season. (LB's and WR's are my two main concerns)

[PoetTiger 1,901]

A team that averaged 29 rushing yards per game in the PAC 12 last year with 4 walk on offensive lineman gained 120 yds on AU, that can't be an encouraging sign. The usually suspects from last year's front 7 were mostly to blame. Holland played half the game and missed at least 3 tackles that I remember, while not recording a stat. Frost looked the part and made a few tackles but his most notable play was getting trucked at the 3 and driven into the end zone. Cass had a couple tackles but didn't play much due to the reliance on dime defense.

The problem with all of the linebackers is that they seem to stare into the backfield diagnosing the play rather than reading and attacking. Blockers come as a surprise on run plays as well as swing passes to the running backs go un-noticed on passing plays.

The improvement on the Dline was mainly from the new additions: Bradley, Adams, and Lawson. The rest looked alot like last year, save an early TFL by Gabe Wright.

Just maybe WSU got a little better. This is not wsu team from last year....it's not like they ran it down AUs throat. Timely called draws and misdirections while the defense was clearly playing pass. Adjustments were made and the 2nd half their offense was slowed, and eventually the defense sealed the win.

[JMassie11 1,610]

A team that averaged 29 rushing yards per game in the PAC 12 last year with 4 walk on offensive lineman gained 120 yds on AU, that can't be an encouraging sign. The usually suspects from last year's front 7 were mostly to blame. Holland played half the game and missed at least 3 tackles that I remember, while not recording a stat. Frost looked the part and made a few tackles but his most notable play was getting trucked at the 3 and driven into the end zone. Cass had a couple tackles but didn't play much due to the reliance on dime defense.

The problem with all of the linebackers is that they seem to stare into the backfield diagnosing the play rather than reading and attacking. Blockers come as a surprise on run plays as well as swing passes to the running backs go un-noticed on passing plays.

The improvement on the Dline was mainly from the new additions: Bradley, Adams, and Lawson. The rest looked alot like last year, save an early TFL by Gabe Wright.

Just maybe WSU got a little better. This is not wsu team from last year....it's not like they ran it down AUs throat. Timely called draws and misdirections while the defense was clearly playing pass. Adjustments were made and the 2nd half their offense was slowed, and eventually the defense sealed the win.

But your speaking reason and logic. .. we can't have any of that

[beagle34 72]

Could we have batted down some of those passes?

What kind of question is that? Don't you think they would have batted down a pass if they could have?

65 passes and not one batted down.Technique and timing are involved.I do think they could have and should have.

[juscAUse 1]

Guys.......I don't know what you watched. I have watched it three times and slowed down certain plays ( I know, I need to get a real job soon ). Sometimes , the MLB was not good. OTHER times, a FB or TB had a choice of who to block, and chose the MLB. So the DT that made the play or hurried the QB looked great. And the MLB did his job. No stats. But Coach Gardner loved it! Other times, The D-line took 21/2 steps and the ball was gone. Good O, NOT bad defense. Call me a sunshine pumper, and some on here from last year know better, but I want to see us play a team that forces the D-line to take up space and engage the offensive line before I jump off the bridge. Somehow after watching the game this many times, I feel much better about this team. They are LEARNING to play with pads low. So I agree that I have no idea what has been taught the last couple of years...... but I KNOW what is being taught NOW. And once they un-learn (that may not be a word) what they were taught before and learn what the coaches are teaching now,....I think this could be OK. If not, I've eaten much crow in my life. But I fell better. My team is being coached. I watched 4 years of it when my son played college ball. I think I know what it looks like. It looks much different from the last couple of years. Relax and breathe deep. This just might be fun.

[SummerTiger 0]

A team that averaged 29 rushing yards per game in the PAC 12 last year with 4 walk on offensive lineman gained 120 yds on AU, that can't be an encouraging sign. The usually suspects from last year's front 7 were mostly to blame. Holland played half the game and missed at least 3 tackles that I remember, while not recording a stat. Frost looked the part and made a few tackles but his most notable play was getting trucked at the 3 and driven into the end zone. Cass had a couple tackles but didn't play much due to the reliance on dime defense.

The problem with all of the linebackers is that they seem to stare into the backfield diagnosing the play rather than reading and attacking. Blockers come as a surprise on run plays as well as swing passes to the running backs go un-noticed on passing plays.

The improvement on the Dline was mainly from the new additions: Bradley, Adams, and Lawson. The rest looked alot like last year, save an early TFL by Gabe Wright.

Just maybe WSU got a little better. This is not wsu team from last year....it's not like they ran it down AUs throat. Timely called draws and misdirections while the defense was clearly playing pass. Adjustments were made and the 2nd half their offense was slowed, and eventually the defense sealed the win.

But your speaking reason and logic. .. we can't have any of that

No, I think I was speaking specifically about what I saw happen during the game. Many here would rather speak in cheery platitudes and blind optimism or ridicule those with differing opinions.

[juscAUse 1]

A team that averaged 29 rushing yards per game in the PAC 12 last year with 4 walk on offensive lineman gained 120 yds on AU, that can't be an encouraging sign. The usually suspects from last year's front 7 were mostly to blame. Holland played half the game and missed at least 3 tackles that I remember, while not recording a stat. Frost looked the part and made a few tackles but his most notable play was getting trucked at the 3 and driven into the end zone. Cass had a couple tackles but didn't play much due to the reliance on dime defense.

The problem with all of the linebackers is that they seem to stare into the backfield diagnosing the play rather than reading and attacking. Blockers come as a surprise on run plays as well as swing passes to the running backs go un-noticed on passing plays.

The improvement on the Dline was mainly from the new additions: Bradley, Adams, and Lawson. The rest looked alot like last year, save an early TFL by Gabe Wright.

Just maybe WSU got a little better. This is not wsu team from last year....it's not like they ran it down AUs throat. Timely called draws and misdirections while the defense was clearly playing pass. Adjustments were made and the 2nd half their offense was slowed, and eventually the defense sealed the win.

But your speaking reason and logic. .. we can't have any of that

No, I think I was speaking specifically about what I saw happen during the game. Many here would rather speak in cheery platitudes and blind optimism or ridicule those with differing opinions.

Read what I posted a couple of posts back, Summer. See if that helps and feel free to respond. For the record, I would love to have a Ken Bernich - Takeo Spikes type at MLB, but I see it a little differently from you. Doesn't mean I'm right, and I've been wrong before, but it might make you think. Anyway, WDE brother.

[aubfaninga 16]

A team that averaged 29 rushing yards per game in the PAC 12 last year with 4 walk on offensive lineman gained 120 yds on AU, that can't be an encouraging sign. The usually suspects from last year's front 7 were mostly to blame. Holland played half the game and missed at least 3 tackles that I remember, while not recording a stat. Frost looked the part and made a few tackles but his most notable play was getting trucked at the 3 and driven into the end zone. Cass had a couple tackles but didn't play much due to the reliance on dime defense.

The problem with all of the linebackers is that they seem to stare into the backfield diagnosing the play rather than reading and attacking. Blockers come as a surprise on run plays as well as swing passes to the running backs go un-noticed on passing plays.

The improvement on the Dline was mainly from the new additions: Bradley, Adams, and Lawson. The rest looked alot like last year, save an early TFL by Gabe Wright.

Summertiger, Not trying at all to get into a dispute about how good Wash St. Offensive line is but I had done a little digging into this group when I first read the article with Leach's quote. First off, their was never 4 walk ons in the mix. It was 3. Apples and oranges... I am also not saying that we played 4 and 5 star SEC recruited lineman either. I am going to copy and paste my answer to another poster so please do not think it is directed at you. Just a little information I had dug up.

copy paste

"Your not even a glass half empty kind of guy are you? Your a "my glass is broke" guy. Why would I care if Monty was up against a "walk on" or not? Monty had his high school prom just a few months ago!!!

But since you thought to down a positive performance by a true freshman by thinking that you knew something special about Washington State after reading an article about them having "walk ons" on their offensive line, let me inform you that you were given a half truth and get a failing grade for your first scouting report.

First why do you hate "walk ons"? Corey Grant, our leading rusher, is technically a "walk on"

#63 Is a 6'7" 300 lb. RS soph that is a 2nd year starter.

This was your first "walk on" they were talking about. He earned his D1 scholarship last year!!!

#56 Is a 6'4" 290 lb. RS soph that originally had a scholarship offer to Wash St. but instead went to Montanna. He sat out the season last year when he transferred to Wash St This is your 2nd walk on and I must mention that he beat out a scholarship player (Matt Goetz) for the starting position.

#60 Is a 6'4" 280 lb. RS SENIOR. He was a walk on as a true freshman but earned his scholly in the spring of 2012. 2nd year letterman and all PAC honorable mention last year.This is your 3rd and final "walk on" that played Saturday.

#77 6'5" 301 lb SENIOR has always been on scholarship

#76 6'6" 300 lb RS SENIOR has always been on scholly since his JUCO transfer

!!!MONTY, A TRUE FRESHMAN, DID GREAT AGAINST A DIVISION 1 OFFENSIVE LINE!!!

[SummerTiger 0]

Read what I posted a couple of posts back, Summer. See if that helps and feel free to respond. For the record, I would love to have a Ken Bernich - Takeo Spikes type at MLB, but I see it a little differently from you. Doesn't mean I'm right, and I've been wrong before, but it might make you think. Anyway, WDE brother.

Summertiger, Not trying at all to get into a dispute about how good Wash St. Offensive line is but I had done a little digging into this group when I first read the article with Leach's quote. First off, their was never 4 walk ons in the mix. It was 3. Apples and oranges... I am also not saying that we played 4 and 5 star SEC recruited lineman either. I am going to copy and paste my answer to another poster so please do not think it is directed at you. Just a little information I had dug up.

I wasn't referring to either of you. I just get frustrated with the the passive-aggressive personal attacks on people's opinion if they don't agree. This is a message board, I come here to talk and debate about the team. Some take any negativity about the team personally and feel the need to bitch and complain about people bitching and complaining. Some people see the team through Rodney Garner's eyes, some through Scott Fountain's.

aubfaninga: I agree that the WSU line wasn't as bad as advertised, and I actually looked up the lineman last week and came to the same conclusions. I mentioned the 4 walk-ons moreso because that was the talking point of the board last week.

juscAUse: We have the same sick passion for re-watching the games. I agree with most of what you were saying, I just disagree with the assertion that a LB's job is to occupy blockers. A LB should be shedding blockers and making tackles (not one of our strengths the last few years). Now if you mean filling gaps, then I am in full agreement.

[aubfaninga 16]

Read what I posted a couple of posts back, Summer. See if that helps and feel free to respond. For the record, I would love to have a Ken Bernich - Takeo Spikes type at MLB, but I see it a little differently from you. Doesn't mean I'm right, and I've been wrong before, but it might make you think. Anyway, WDE brother.

Summertiger, Not trying at all to get into a dispute about how good Wash St. Offensive line is but I had done a little digging into this group when I first read the article with Leach's quote. First off, their was never 4 walk ons in the mix. It was 3. Apples and oranges... I am also not saying that we played 4 and 5 star SEC recruited lineman either. I am going to copy and paste my answer to another poster so please do not think it is directed at you. Just a little information I had dug up.

I wasn't referring to either of you. I just get frustrated with the the passive-aggressive personal attacks on people's opinion if they don't agree. This is a message board, I come here to talk and debate about the team. Some take any negativity about the team personally and feel the need to bitch and complain about people bitching and complaining. Some people see the team through Rodney Garner's eyes, some through Scott Fountain's.

aubfaninga: I agree that the WSU line wasn't as bad as advertised, and I actually looked up the lineman last week and came to the same conclusions. I mentioned the 4 walk-ons moreso because that was the talking point of the board last week.

juscAUse: We have the same sick passion for re-watching the games. I agree with most of what you were saying, I just disagree with the assertion that a LB's job is to occupy blockers. A LB should be shedding blockers and making tackles (not one of our strengths the last few years). Now if you mean filling gaps, then I am in full agreement.

Summer, I have not seen anything that you have posted as of yet that is overly critical or without merit. To show we are on the same page I will give my wishlist of things that I want to see improve by our game against Miss St..

#1 A passing threat for everyone in the SEC to prepare for when watching film!!!

#2 A consistant push up field by the defensive line

#3 Better performance from our MLB position

#4 Better performance from our FB (blocking technique)

#5 A faster tempo on offense

Trust me, I know where we were, I saw where we are right now, and I see where we are going!!! Things look brighter today than a week ago.

[PoetTiger 1,901]

You just can't say WSU was a bad 3-9 team - without considering the fact AU was also a bad

3-9 team last year. Is it remotely possible that WSU got better or was it expectation they would still perform the same as last year? AU was not going to shut WSU down completely but they kept them out of the end zone enough to win the game, and have a positive building block going into game 2.

[Stripe 5]

How many times does it have to be posted that we completely sold out to stop the pass against WSU? Even the coaches said it.

Relax and wait to see what happens this week before you start doubting and complaining about line/LB PLAY?

[IronMan70 3,277]

Guys.......I don't know what you watched. I have watched it three times and slowed down certain plays ( I know, I need to get a real job soon ). Sometimes , the MLB was not good. OTHER times, a FB or TB had a choice of who to block, and chose the MLB. So the DT that made the play or hurried the QB looked great. And the MLB did his job. No stats. But Coach Gardner loved it! Other times, The D-line took 21/2 steps and the ball was gone. Good O, NOT bad defense. Call me a sunshine pumper, and some on here from last year know better, but I want to see us play a team that forces the D-line to take up space and engage the offensive line before I jump off the bridge. Somehow after watching the game this many times, I feel much better about this team. They are LEARNING to play with pads low. So I agree that I have no idea what has been taught the last couple of years...... but I KNOW what is being taught NOW. And once they un-learn (that may not be a word) what they were taught before and learn what the coaches are teaching now,....I think this could be OK. If not, I've eaten much crow in my life. But I fell better. My team is being coached. I watched 4 years of it when my son played college ball. I think I know what it looks like. It looks much different from the last couple of years. Relax and breathe deep. This just might be fun.

More people need to do this. I never draw conclusions until I see the replay because you get an entirely different perspective on what really happened. I keep an eye on the line play during the game because it is half the game but it is impossible to pick up everything when its live. So if a person really wants to know what is going with the OL and DL play you have to go back, look at it, pause the replay and analyze it. On the replay of this game, you can see a LOT of improvements on the team over last year.

There was one play that was almost laughable. Adams was pushing thru the OT with a bee line on the QB. The OT grabs Adams jersey and pulls it almost down to his knee. Ref was looking right at it, no flag, lol. Frost got held one time almost as bad as that, so a couple plays later when a WR tried to cross in front of him 3 yards past the LOS, he just knocked him into the backfield before the QB got the throw off, LOL. The WSU QB appealed to the ref and he just smiled back at him. I loved that play.

[AURex 2,055]

How many times does it have to be posted that we completely sold out to stop the pass against WSU? Even the coaches said it.

Relax and wait to see what happens this week before you start doubting and complaining about line/LB PLAY?

Well, ya know, even the coaches were criticizing LB play after the game and specifically pointing out that LB play had to improve this week. It's not like comments here are being unfairly critical. Holland and Frost did not have a good game. They both need to get better. The upside is, the coaches believe LB play can get better, that mistakes can be corrected.

I think (I hope) we will see improved LB play this coming Saturday against Arky State. Because a team has to be able to stop the run in the SEC in order to be competitive, and has to be able to accomplish that with the front 7.

[AuburnNTexas 7,198]

Air Raid team. Often only playing one LBr. First half we played a lot of zone and they ate us up with quick passes that negated DL play. Second half we went to a lot more pressing Man to man defense and we held them to 3 points. A few pass completions and we blow this team out of the water. Even though we were playing against an air raid team and were not in the perfect defense to stop the run. Players still have to step up and make a play in those situations. I am giving them benefit of the doubt that they were so wrapped up with stopping the pass and that they were in a new D so at times were thinking as opposed to reacting. Linebackers have so many different responsibilities when trying to stop a Pass first team that they didn't stop the run as well as they should.

The get another week of practice they will play against a more traditional team, they already improved from first half to second half I hope and expect a better more complete defensive effort against Arky State. I also think NM will throw better leading to more long drives and hopefully keeping D off the field more.

[doc4aday 1,887]

I think our defense will pretty much shut AK's offense down pretty much the whole game. I honestly do not think we will be challenged to the degree we were with WSU. I think we will win by at least 17 or more points.

[NWALTIGER 1]

I want to wait until at least after the MSU game before I get too amped up about anything in particular. I think going against a mid tier level SEC team will give us a much better gauge than a pass happy PAC 12 or a Sun Belt team. Its a new system and it will take time to learn.

[johnjacob 44]

We will see different personnel pkgs. vs. Arky St. than we played with against WSU. Cass should see much more PT as well as Garrett. I don't think you can lay all of their longer runs at the feet of JH. While he may have missed an assignment at some point, he was being forced into coverage or not in the game at all. That is something I am certain we will remedy, however, this game (ASU) should tell us more about our run defense than anything we saw this past weekend IMO.

Indeed. We cannot actually infer much about our rushing defense from playing an Air Raid team. Their rushing success surprised me, and clearly surprised the team and coaches. However, we were sold out to defending the Air Raid at what it normally does. Leach was smart enough to know that we would have quickly adjusted to containing a run game if they used it more. Besides, most (if not all) of those rushing attempts were check downs. I would certainly be glad to let them have 120 on the ground, if it means that they aren't getting big pass plays consistently (which they didn't).

You are right about the check downs-the D was showing their hand too soon giving the QB a chance to do that successfully early on.

[johnjacob 44]

I want to wait until at least after the MSU game before I get too amped up about anything in particular. I think going against a mid tier level SEC team will give us a much better gauge than a pass happy PAC 12 or a Sun Belt team. Its a new system and it will take time to learn.

MSU's O was awful in their first game. Their D was stout till it wore out. Looked like the old Tubby-MSU games of the past.

[AuburnNTexas 7,198]

I want to wait until at least after the MSU game before I get too amped up about anything in particular. I think going against a mid tier level SEC team will give us a much better gauge than a pass happy PAC 12 or a Sun Belt team. Its a new system and it will take time to learn.

MSU's O was awful in their first game. Their D was stout till it wore out. Looked like the old Tubby-MSU games of the past.

I agree MSU's O was awful. But it was more the QB was awful. There were an awful lot of plays where he missed wind open receivers and he made an awful lot of bad run reads. Multiple times he gave it to the RB when the D Player had already committed to the RB he could have kept and picked up yardage. Few times he kept he did pick up good yardage.

He played much better last year. Maybe it was just a bad game and he will be much better by the time we play them. That way we will be able to judge where our team is. By the way I believe NM also had a less than stellar game his I believe was more due to lack of knowledge with the Offense and lack of reps with the receivers that should get better from week to week. So hopefully we see an improved NM my MSU game and a really good NM by LSU game.