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Projected starting 5 next year?


War Eagle77

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I keep hearing about what a great recruiter BP is....but I'm not sure where that comes from....especially in today's "market". Most kids only know him from his days at ESPN, not his coaching days....and a few seasons like the one we are experiencing now is not going to contribute to a reputation as a top national coach or some kind of coaching genius.

We talk about the talent shortage....but heck, give any pretty good coach a bunch of talent and he / she should be able to win. The key, IMO is being able to win with what you have...good, bad or mediocre.

BP needs to show he can win (or play competitively) with what ever talent he has....and it's pointless IMO for AU people to keep looking for that day sometime in the future when Bruce gets "his players" or when he will be bringing 5* players to the campus. We have to win first with the players that we have , or can get....and we need to stop the "wait until next year" stuff.

Just sayin' that BP has a pretty narrow window of opportunity to build this program....another year or two like this and the 'bloom will be off the rose' as far as the world at large will see it. In basketball, AU has no natural recruiting advantages, no established mystique like UCLA or Kentucky or Kansas...or Duke that automaticallly gets the attention of good prospects. Losing 5 in a row on your home court and getting beat by 23 points at home against a team like LSU is not progress.....JMO.

Rarely do I disagree with your views but I do this time. Totally and completely disagree.

me too. Calipari, K. Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, John wooden .... None of them could have done much if at all better with this roster. I have no idea about next year either. Our best two players, by a long shot are gone. So I am not too optimistic. I do like pearl but he has a challenge.

CBP had a consensus top 20 class before his first season was half way over. When is the last time AU had a top 20 class in Basketball? CBP wants to estabish a "mystique" like UCLA (haven't been good in a while) or Kentucky (mediocre season saved last year by deep tourny run and first round NIT loss 2 years ago) or Kansas (most consistent power team) ...or Duke (was nothing before Coach K) or even North Carolina (a shell of who they were in the past).

All that being said, AU's roster was pieced together by CTB and transfers this season. We've seen a group of players this year play harder than any Auburn team in the last 10 years with very little depth. The fact of the matter is, Auburn didn't get better between last season and this season, while other teams (LSU, Arkansas, A&M) got better by having pieces in place and running a successful off season program. Auburn didn't get better because they lost a lot of talent from last year (Chris Denson & Allen Payne) and turned over their spots to transfers without the chemistry that a senior would have with a team they've been with for 4 years.

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Key here is patience. No coach in America could have turned this mess around in one season. BP is doing some solid recruiting and 2 or 3 years down the road this team will be competitive with the rest of the conference except for possibly KY. I'm not so sure any team in the conference will be competitive with them if they keep going like they are going now. I just hope we can maintain the enthusiasm, particularly within the student body. Enjoy your time on the best college campus in America. Go to the games and have fun! That is what it is all about anyway. Support the most fun coach we have ever had as he builds this program and the winning will come!

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I dont understand why people are down on BP or this team. We are basically playing small ball at all times, except actually throwing one of those wing-sized players down low because his skill set doesn't match his size. That is one of the worst types of problems to have. Not to mention basketball IQ doesn't seem to be a strong point of almost anyone on the roster. Harrell and Mason are the best players on the team but ideally if you have a 6'6 center with no shotblocking ability (or w.o being super athletic or having great length to counter the height problem) you only want him playing 12-15 mins per game as an energy/toughness guy.

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Give Pearl a few years, he will get us there.

It is going to take time. Our BB program has been down for years.

And I disagree, though or record does not reflect it, this team played a lot better than last year. We are simply lacking the talent we need to go up to mid level. Hoping we can get there next year.

We may be playing harder than last year, but we are not playing better. As I pointed out in another thread, we are scoring 3 less ppg and giving up an extra 9-10 ppg. We also have less assists and almost dead last in the country in that dept. most that follow BBall understand that assists are a good stat to examine how a team plays as a team. Somehow we have regressed in that dept which I thought was impossible regardless of how bad the next coach was. BP is a helluva recruiter and if he stays long enough will make us better than we've been in a long long time....however his coaching job this year has left a lot to be desired. We are equally as talented as last year and are playing worse than a team that got the last guy fired. Sugar coat all you want, but coaching should have been better this year. Hopefully BP is knocking off the rust and will show up big time next year. Until then...

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Give Pearl a few years, he will get us there.

It is going to take time. Our BB program has been down for years.

And I disagree, though or record does not reflect it, this team played a lot better than last year. We are simply lacking the talent we need to go up to mid level. Hoping we can get there next year.

We may be playing harder than last year, but we are not playing better. As I pointed out in another thread, we are scoring 3 less ppg and giving up an extra 9-10 ppg. We also have less assists and almost dead last in the country in that dept. most that follow BBall understand that assists are a good stat to examine how a team plays as a team. Somehow we have regressed in that dept which I thought was impossible regardless of how bad the next coach was. BP is a helluva recruiter and if he stays long enough will make us better than we've been in a long long time....however his coaching job this year has left a lot to be desired. We are equally as talented as last year and are playing worse than a team that got the last guy fired. Sugar coat all you want, but coaching should have been better this year. Hopefully BP is knocking off the rust and will show up big time next year. Until then...

I think you're forgetting last season we had CD who was the SEC's leading scorer. PPG is down because KT and Mason are the only one's producing and assists are down due to the fact that when we try to assist the scorer, he misses. THERE'S NOT ENOUGH TALENT. It's not about coaching. What don't you get about that?
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Give Pearl a few years, he will get us there.

It is going to take time. Our BB program has been down for years.

And I disagree, though or record does not reflect it, this team played a lot better than last year. We are simply lacking the talent we need to go up to mid level. Hoping we can get there next year.

We may be playing harder than last year, but we are not playing better. As I pointed out in another thread, we are scoring 3 less ppg and giving up an extra 9-10 ppg. We also have less assists and almost dead last in the country in that dept. most that follow BBall understand that assists are a good stat to examine how a team plays as a team. Somehow we have regressed in that dept which I thought was impossible regardless of how bad the next coach was. BP is a helluva recruiter and if he stays long enough will make us better than we've been in a long long time....however his coaching job this year has left a lot to be desired. We are equally as talented as last year and are playing worse than a team that got the last guy fired. Sugar coat all you want, but coaching should have been better this year. Hopefully BP is knocking off the rust and will show up big time next year. Until then...

We are playing a much tougher schedule than last year. That's the main reason. Also, while we might have the same amount of talent as last year's team, we do not have the depth which is imperative for Bruce's system.

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I hear this talent argument but consider we have the top JUCO from last year, one of the top scorers from Div 1 last year with 3 years experience, a returning starter and a top 3 scorer from the SEC and a kid that started for another Div 1 school for a couple years...plus a couple key back-ups from last year. Better experience than a lot of places IMO.

A few of us are just suggesting that if anyone but BP were coaching this team, the stats and results would not be so acceptable. Not saying he won't get the job done at some point.....but he is probably not going to have much better talent next year considering the players that will be leaving.

As for BP's system, I think it is generally accepted that coaches play a system that suits the players. Just sayin' ....he will need to do a better coaching job next season.

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64,

I will concede your point that a less likable coach (regardless of pedagree) would not be given quite the benefit of the doubt.

But I do think that is one of the things that was imperative about this hire. He needed to be charismatic for the fan base ... Not just as the leader of the players.

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I hear this talent argument but consider we have the top JUCO from last year, one of the top scorers from Div 1 last year with 3 years experience, a returning starter and a top 3 scorer from the SEC and a kid that started for another Div 1 school for a couple years...plus a couple key back-ups from last year. Better experience than a lot of places IMO.

A few of us are just suggesting that if anyone but BP were coaching this team, the stats and results would not be so acceptable. Not saying he won't get the job done at some point.....but he is probably not going to have much better talent next year considering the players that will be leaving.

As for BP's system, I think it is generally accepted that coaches play a system that suits the players. Just sayin' ....he will need to do a better coaching job next season.

I'm not sure what point your were making with the first paragraph. Seems like you stacked the deck to say we don't have a deficiency in experience. We have to be near the bottom in experience and cohesion. I doubt a team in the sec would even consider trading rosters with us.
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I hear this talent argument but consider we have the top JUCO from last year, one of the top scorers from Div 1 last year with 3 years experience, a returning starter and a top 3 scorer from the SEC and a kid that started for another Div 1 school for a couple years...plus a couple key back-ups from last year. Better experience than a lot of places IMO.

A few of us are just suggesting that if anyone but BP were coaching this team, the stats and results would not be so acceptable. Not saying he won't get the job done at some point.....but he is probably not going to have much better talent next year considering the players that will be leaving.

As for BP's system, I think it is generally accepted that coaches play a system that suits the players. Just sayin' ....he will need to do a better coaching job next season.

I'm not sure what point your were making with the first paragraph. Seems like you stacked the deck to say we don't have a deficiency in experience. We have to be near the bottom in experience and cohesion. I doubt a team in the sec would even consider trading rosters with us.

My point is don't judge the potential of this team by what you have been seeing on the floor. Instead, read their resume's and the press guide....this is a pretty solid team....not a bunch that gets waxed at home by 23 points.

As for "experience"....with 2 seniors, two grad students and a junior starting, I doubt any SEC team has more experience on the floor....now "cohesion"...that's a good point and I can't disagree that we have problems there....but who is responsible for that?

So next year we will have much less experience....and who is to say more talent? And who will be the floor leader? BP is going to have to make a silk purse our of a sow's ear....so has he shown that he can do it? I don't know...and I don't think it is unreasonable to at least raise the question in a discussion forum.

PS...Barbee had the personality of a stone and it's great to see BP getting the students fired up...that's a great start for him...no doubt there.

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I hear this talent argument but consider we have the top JUCO from last year, one of the top scorers from Div 1 last year with 3 years experience, a returning starter and a top 3 scorer from the SEC and a kid that started for another Div 1 school for a couple years...plus a couple key back-ups from last year. Better experience than a lot of places IMO.

A few of us are just suggesting that if anyone but BP were coaching this team, the stats and results would not be so acceptable. Not saying he won't get the job done at some point.....but he is probably not going to have much better talent next year considering the players that will be leaving.

As for BP's system, I think it is generally accepted that coaches play a system that suits the players. Just sayin' ....he will need to do a better coaching job next season.

I'm not sure what point your were making with the first paragraph. Seems like you stacked the deck to say we don't have a deficiency in experience. We have to be near the bottom in experience and cohesion. I doubt a team in the sec would even consider trading rosters with us.

My point is don't judge the potential of this team by what you have been seeing on the floor. Instead, read their resume's and the press guide....this is a pretty solid team....not a bunch that gets waxed at home by 23 points.

As for "experience"....with 2 seniors, two grad students and a junior starting, I doubt any SEC team has more experience on the floor....now "cohesion"...that's a good point and I can't disagree that we have problems there....but who is responsible for that?

So next year we will have much less experience....and who is to say more talent? And who will be the floor leader? BP is going to have to make a silk purse our of a sow's ear....so has he shown that he can do it? I don't know...and I don't think it is unreasonable to at least raise the question in a discussion forum.

PS...Barbee had the personality of a stone and it's great to see BP getting the students fired up...that's a great start for him...no doubt there.

Kentucky plays a whole new starting 5 almost every year. They sure don't have "cohesion" problems. Granted they are ridiculously talented, but they also play team defense and offense...they don't have a bunch of talented guys playing as individuals. BP will have the same amount of talent next year more than likely so the only possible to improve for next year is coaching. Another season like this one and the arena will be half empty again. I just hope he stays for at least 4 years as it is gonna take that long to completely bring AU to the top.

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To compare AU basketball to KY basketball is comical. Not worth the time to even have the thought in a discussion, other than to say that is what AU is striving towards. AU has been bad for 9 out of the last 10 years. That kind of failure takes time to repair. To even comment about how CBP is leading the team is ridiculous. I believe it will take at least three years to have AU playing with the top teams in the SEC.

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Give Pearl a few years, he will get us there.

It is going to take time. Our BB program has been down for years.

And I disagree, though or record does not reflect it, this team played a lot better than last year. We are simply lacking the talent we need to go up to mid level. Hoping we can get there next year.

We may be playing harder than last year, but we are not playing better. As I pointed out in another thread, we are scoring 3 less ppg and giving up an extra 9-10 ppg. We also have less assists and almost dead last in the country in that dept. most that follow BBall understand that assists are a good stat to examine how a team plays as a team. Somehow we have regressed in that dept which I thought was impossible regardless of how bad the next coach was. BP is a helluva recruiter and if he stays long enough will make us better than we've been in a long long time....however his coaching job this year has left a lot to be desired. We are equally as talented as last year and are playing worse than a team that got the last guy fired. Sugar coat all you want, but coaching should have been better this year. Hopefully BP is knocking off the rust and will show up big time next year. Until then...

We are playing a much tougher schedule than last year. That's the main reason. Also, while we might have the same amount of talent as last year's team, we do not have the depth which is imperative for Bruce's system.

Yes, absolutely. This is the first year of growing a BB team. BP is the only coach AU could have hired to get this much hype over a team BP knows is not very talented. He is the ultimate salesman and a hell of a bb coach. I think everyone here questioning that is, well, silly. CBP is exactly what an apathetic, losing basketball university needs. We have spent money on the program and brought in the best coach available. Its going to take a little time, but it will be a success.

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The key (as many have stated) will be more height and more depth next year. We all have witnessed how those two factors really hurt us this year. The returning players will also have a full off-season with CBP. I'm intrigued with what CBP can do with Bowers in a full off-season. We saw a lot of flashes of greatness with Bowers this year and if he can play smarter next year, he'll be dominating. We really really need to hold on to Horace Spencer. I hope he decides to stick with us in the end.

We will have a completely different looking team next year. I think middle of the pack in the SEC would be a reasonable expectation.

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Give Pearl a few years, he will get us there.

It is going to take time. Our BB program has been down for years.

And I disagree, though or record does not reflect it, this team played a lot better than last year. We are simply lacking the talent we need to go up to mid level. Hoping we can get there next year.

We may be playing harder than last year, but we are not playing better. As I pointed out in another thread, we are scoring 3 less ppg and giving up an extra 9-10 ppg. We also have less assists and almost dead last in the country in that dept. most that follow BBall understand that assists are a good stat to examine how a team plays as a team. Somehow we have regressed in that dept which I thought was impossible regardless of how bad the next coach was. BP is a helluva recruiter and if he stays long enough will make us better than we've been in a long long time....however his coaching job this year has left a lot to be desired. We are equally as talented as last year and are playing worse than a team that got the last guy fired. Sugar coat all you want, but coaching should have been better this year. Hopefully BP is knocking off the rust and will show up big time next year. Until then...

You are using statistics to prove your point without looking at the underlying issues. Last year we had more size, we had more continuity of players who had played under same system. This year we had no size at all. Most of the team haad not played together even for a year and we did not have any depth. Two of the three best players were transfers and a new sytem was put in. This year we beat a couple of good SEC teams at their home court, we played a much tougher schedule then last year and in almost every game we were competitive until the end. Pearl came in to late for this years class but still was able to get Bowers and Mason and Reed which shows you what type of recruiter he is. Reed along with others in next years class give us #11 Recruiting class. Auburn haas not been in top 50 in recruiting in years. Counting Reed we will have 3 3* Players and 3 4* players that Pearl recruited next year plus one more year of Bowers. We will loose 2 key players next year that will definitely hurt so expectations should be developingg team Chemistry, enough depth to really put on full court press at times, similar record to this year but a base to build on then another solid recruiting class to start the slow rebuilding process. Team after next year should be better then next year then year after that you can start to judge BP.

If you really thought you were going to see a huge improvement this year you did not analyze the roster and you were hoping in one fall practice session BP could make lower level talent into great talent and could make short players grow just because he was a good coach. That was not realistic. What he did do is get his players to play hard everynight and he got people excited to see Auburn play which will help in recuiting when players visit and see aa full house of crazy enthusiastic Auburn fans.

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I think to put a timer on Bruce Pearl as he tries to revamp this program is a mistake. You can't say he only has 2-3 years to turn this thing around or else the ship has sailed... hell we gave Lebo 6 years to prove his worth and even Barbee got a 4th season he didn't deserve. Let the man have at least one complete off season where he can actually recruit and then let those players he recruits during that off season make it to campus and see the court (16-17 season at earliest) before you begin to evaluate his overall performance at Auburn.

This is Bruce's toughest coaching job yet thanks in part to the dumpster fire that Barbee left behind and the legacy of apathy/losing that has been created the past 30 years. I like the direction things are headed but it will certainly take time. We have only three players that could see time on other SEC rosters and NO bench (our biggest problem - we haven't had one in a LONG time).

Hang in there and I believe the good days will come.

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I think to put a timer on Bruce Pearl as he tries to revamp this program is a mistake. You can't say he only has 2-3 years to turn this thing around or else the ship has sailed... hell we gave Lebo 6 years to prove his worth and even Barbee got a 4th season he didn't deserve. Let the man have at least one complete off season where he can actually recruit and then let those players he recruits during that off season make it to campus and see the court (16-17 season at earliest) before you begin to evaluate his overall performance at Auburn.

This is Bruce's toughest coaching job yet thanks in part to the dumpster fire that Barbee left behind and the legacy of apathy/losing that has been created the past 30 years. I like the direction things are headed but it will certainly take time. We have only three players that could see time on other SEC rosters and NO bench (our biggest problem - we haven't had one in a LONG time).

Hang in there and I believe the good days will come.

So well said!

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I tried to address this earlier in the year so we wouldn't have stupid emotional breakdowns. Team isn't talented enough to do what the ones complaining wanted done. Take most of our guys put them on other SEC teams they wouldn't even be on the team or they should be bench warmers

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I tried to address this earlier in the year so we wouldn't have stupid emotional breakdowns. Team isn't talented enough to do what the ones complaining wanted done. Take most of our guys put them on other SEC teams they wouldn't even be on the team or they should be bench warmers

Gotta disagree.....guess I have more faith in the abilities of our players than many AU fans do. Granted they don't seem to be much of a "team" but there is some basic talent on our starting 5 and a couple decent back-ups.

And as for depth, check around and you will find that some teams play maybe 7 or 8 guys at most during a game. People see UK's army of McDonalds AA and think everyone has talent like them....but the players on most SEC teams have resume's that don't look any better than our kids and we have plenty of "experience" starting for AU.

I'm just saying that next year we are going to look back and wish we still had some of these guys.

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I tried to address this earlier in the year so we wouldn't have stupid emotional breakdowns. Team isn't talented enough to do what the ones complaining wanted done. Take most of our guys put them on other SEC teams they wouldn't even be on the team or they should be bench warmers

Gotta disagree.....guess I have more faith in the abilities of our players than many AU fans do. Granted they don't seem to be much of a "team" but there is some basic talent on our starting 5 and a couple decent back-ups.

And as for depth, check around and you will find that some teams play maybe 7 or 8 guys at most during a game. People see UK's army of McDonalds AA and think everyone has talent like them....but the players on most SEC teams have resume's that don't look any better than our kids and we have plenty of "experience" starting for AU.

I'm just saying that next year we are going to look back and wish we still had some of these guys.

We don't have a true big man other than Reed who is 50 pounds underweight and arrived to Auburn in late December. Regardless of how good our guards are, if we can't defend on the inside and get rebounds (which we haven't been able to do either) then we are not going to be a good team.

As for your depth argument, BP's system requires depth due to the style of play he likes to have. Some systems/teams can get away with not having as much depth because to the style they play, but BP's pressing, fast pace game requires depth.

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I tried to address this earlier in the year so we wouldn't have stupid emotional breakdowns. Team isn't talented enough to do what the ones complaining wanted done. Take most of our guys put them on other SEC teams they wouldn't even be on the team or they should be bench warmers

Gotta disagree.....guess I have more faith in the abilities of our players than many AU fans do. Granted they don't seem to be much of a "team" but there is some basic talent on our starting 5 and a couple decent back-ups.

And as for depth, check around and you will find that some teams play maybe 7 or 8 guys at most during a game. People see UK's army of McDonalds AA and think everyone has talent like them....but the players on most SEC teams have resume's that don't look any better than our kids and we have plenty of "experience" starting for AU.

I'm just saying that next year we are going to look back and wish we still had some of these guys.

We don't have a true big man other than Reed who is 50 pounds underweight and arrived to Auburn in late December. Regardless of how good our guards are, if we can't defend on the inside and get rebounds (which we haven't been able to do either) then we are not going to be a good team.

As for your depth argument, BP's system requires depth due to the style of play he likes to have. Some systems/teams can get away with not having as much depth because to the style they play, but BP's pressing, fast pace game requires depth.

Understand that view.....but you might say..."preferred" style. So....will we have more quality depth next year? And just note that top teams like Duke, Ariz, Louisville for example, play 7 guys most games and usually 6 players have almost all of their quality minutes. And IMO, we don't press any more than most teams....and if you look at our defensive stats, BP spreads the minutes around more than many coaches....and unfortunately, the press is only marginally effective.

This year just reminds me of Sunny's baseball last season and Chiz's last football team where players and the "system" were not compatible.

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I tried to address this earlier in the year so we wouldn't have stupid emotional breakdowns. Team isn't talented enough to do what the ones complaining wanted done. Take most of our guys put them on other SEC teams they wouldn't even be on the team or they should be bench warmers

Gotta disagree.....guess I have more faith in the abilities of our players than many AU fans do. Granted they don't seem to be much of a "team" but there is some basic talent on our starting 5 and a couple decent back-ups.

And as for depth, check around and you will find that some teams play maybe 7 or 8 guys at most during a game. People see UK's army of McDonalds AA and think everyone has talent like them....but the players on most SEC teams have resume's that don't look any better than our kids and we have plenty of "experience" starting for AU.

I'm just saying that next year we are going to look back and wish we still had some of these guys.

We don't have a true big man other than Reed who is 50 pounds underweight and arrived to Auburn in late December. Regardless of how good our guards are, if we can't defend on the inside and get rebounds (which we haven't been able to do either) then we are not going to be a good team.

As for your depth argument, BP's system requires depth due to the style of play he likes to have. Some systems/teams can get away with not having as much depth because to the style they play, but BP's pressing, fast pace game requires depth.

This argument implies that BP runs a "system" regardless of who his players are and doesn't adapt his system to players, and instead requires several years of recruiting to make a team win games. If you really believe we stunk this year because we don't have enough depth to run his system, then you are implying he is either incapable of or unwilling to adapting his coaching style to the players he has. If that is the case, he must be a terrible coach....yes we need some more players, but if we are running full court press with no depth then that is horrible coaching. Personally I think we have enough players to do what he wants, he just didn't have enough time with some of them to make them play as a team.

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I tried to address this earlier in the year so we wouldn't have stupid emotional breakdowns. Team isn't talented enough to do what the ones complaining wanted done. Take most of our guys put them on other SEC teams they wouldn't even be on the team or they should be bench warmers

Gotta disagree.....guess I have more faith in the abilities of our players than many AU fans do. Granted they don't seem to be much of a "team" but there is some basic talent on our starting 5 and a couple decent back-ups.

And as for depth, check around and you will find that some teams play maybe 7 or 8 guys at most during a game. People see UK's army of McDonalds AA and think everyone has talent like them....but the players on most SEC teams have resume's that don't look any better than our kids and we have plenty of "experience" starting for AU.

I'm just saying that next year we are going to look back and wish we still had some of these guys.

We don't have a true big man other than Reed who is 50 pounds underweight and arrived to Auburn in late December. Regardless of how good our guards are, if we can't defend on the inside and get rebounds (which we haven't been able to do either) then we are not going to be a good team.

As for your depth argument, BP's system requires depth due to the style of play he likes to have. Some systems/teams can get away with not having as much depth because to the style they play, but BP's pressing, fast pace game requires depth.

This argument implies that BP runs a "system" regardless of who his players are and doesn't adapt his system to players, and instead requires several years of recruiting to make a team win games. If you really believe we stunk this year because we don't have enough depth to run his system, then you are implying he is either incapable of or unwilling to adapting his coaching style to the players he has. If that is the case, he must be a terrible coach....yes we need some more players, but if we are running full court press with no depth then that is horrible coaching. Personally I think we have enough players to do what he wants, he just didn't have enough time with some of them to make them play as a team.

He is building for future years. He is not just thinking about this year when he is coaching. He is setting the tone and laying the foundation down for future years by running his uptempo system. Sure, he adapted a little this year to his personnel, but he did not deviate too far from his roots. He very well could have sat back on defense, not pressed, and played a slower game to accommodate his roster; however, he knows how to build a program by not switching systems ever year. Look at Mike Anderson at Arkansas as an example of this.

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